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Interesting that you would raise that analogy considering that the policies you suggest are strikingly similar to the ones instigated by the NSDAP in 1930's Germany...
In the short term, I agree, Politicians are avoiding such action on the basis that it will be a bitter pill for some to take and they are cowards. But, in the long term, we have to do something.
For example, a 4 year old girl attending a state school for 12 years, tasting the freedom and creativity that a secular society can offer (plus gaining friends and experiences from other religions and those of no beleif) will stand a much better chance of realising that our World has much more to offer than medieval fairy tales.
Lovely story. You might almost think it's got some point. Except for the fact that it makes no sense at all. 1 Billion extremists? where? One time opening your eye and you can see this is BS. The kind of BS ISIS wants, for they want us to be afraid and they want us to think it's a war of religion. It isn't. It's a war between our way of living and some extremists who want to live in the middle ages because they can't keep up in a modern world and they feel betrayed. And some half illiterate idiots whom we let in to preach to our children are getting those kids to do some utterly stupid and horrendous things. It was kids attacking in Barcelona, following some preacher who's obviously too afraid to blow himself up.
The worst thing is these kids were not on the radar of the security services. The best thing about it they weren't trained at all and messed up. That house blew up because of it and thankfully afaik only would-be terrorists lost their lives in that blast.
You seem to make this a case against religion and not terrorism. Which seems strikingly simplistic to me. I think the problem at hand is far to submersive to be solved simply by removing Islam (or all religion) from society by force - if that was indeed possible.
Being muslim (or a devoted believer of any kind) is not enough to become a radicalized terrorist. That is simplifying a trend of far deeper psychological value into something trivial. And the social divide between muslims and non muslims is not merely about religion, it is also a cultural problem. There are many studies trying to get into why young people of all faiths radicalize. When previously radical terrorists are interviewed about what drove them to violence, they never site the religius teachings as the underlying factor. They focus on anger, the sense of being lost in life without a sense of purpose, belonging or fulfilment. Those people are the ones the terrorist recruits specialize in reaching out to. If you care about this problem you should read up on this...
Excellent point regarding faith schools
You make excellent points @jobo. Even as far back as the Middle Ages the ones going on crusades were mostly those living without purpose who were easily attracted by false promises and radical, intolerant theologies.
@jobo Terrorism is not the issue. It is the cause of terrorism that we need to focus on. We have been here before but it suits a certain agenda to seperate terrorism and religion (or indeed any proposed cause).
If someone wants to hire a van and kill as many as possible. there is nothing that can be done to stop that.... Nothing.
We will still be here in 50 years time discussing concrete barriers, remote control disabling devices, further security checks on drivers etc etc (exactly the type of "sticking plaster" solutions that politicains are happy to discuss)
We have to look at the WHY rather than the HOW. What are their motivations? So I make no apologies for suggesting a cause and possible long term solutions.
"They focus on anger, the sense of being lost in life without a sense of purpose, belonging or fulfilment."
There are people from all over the World from all faiths (including atheists) who fit this catagory. So its just co-incidence that the terrorists are Muslim? How many more attacks do we need to see before we can gain a consensus that there is at least some form of connection?
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/politics/2012/07/age-extremes-muslim-mehdi-hasan-maajid-mawaz
Would we ignore the fact that they were all stamp collectors and discuss anger, social exclusion?
Would we have leaders around the World insisting that these attacks were nothing to do with stamp collecting? Would we repeat over and over again that stamp collecting was a hobby of peace? Would we accuse those who wanted to discuss the possible link between terrorism and stamp collecting as "stampaphobes"?
I think that we would want to discuss what was happening within the World of stamp collecting and that what made some of their community terrorists and many more active supporters or others via tacit consent. And this is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
But stamp collecting does not have the social taboo of religion.
That's a funny example because I happen to be a stamp collector. So if we were to take this Stamp Terrorism thing seriously, and say half the stamp collectors around the world started killing people in the name of stamps (or Terrence Stamp? ;) ), what would you ask me/want me to do if my fellow stamp collectors started doing such things?
Then I would ask you, as a stamp collector, why you thought that some of your fellow stamp collectors had become terrorists. Did you think that there were any factors intrinsic within stamp collecting that encouraged such behavoir? I would ask why 32% of stamp collectors in the UK refuse to condemn those who use violence against those who mock stamps and why 4% of stamp collectors in the UK sympathise with stamp collector terrorists.
Stanley Gibbons Akhbar!!!
We both focus on the causes of terrorism. I have no idea why you try to suggest otherwise...
The difference is that you focus on why people practice Islam while I focus on why they radicalize and insert violence.
Plus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Saudi_Arabia
Sharia law approves and embraces the use of violence as a tool of punishment: research indicates around 40% of UK Muslims want Sharia introduced..
These young, angry boys that you mentioned have been brought up within a culture that approves of violence as a tool of retribution. Could that make it more likely they they will use violence themselves ? Its a debate thats hard to have within the current environment.
Most muslims do not approve of violence. That is a completely false atatement!
And what 'culture' are you talking about? There is no such thing as a 'muslim culture'.
Most Muslims in the west perhaps don't (although if there was a referendum on the subject it would make interesting reading) but look at the stats on capital punishment and stoning and I think 'most Muslims' is a fair assessment given Pakistan, Iran, Indonesia etc are all advocates.
I find this desperation to exonerate Islam of any blame whatsoever bemusing like it's no different to saying 'Well they all ate chicken so you might as well say chicken is the cause.'
If these people are just life's flotsam as we're instructed to believe it seems a somewhat curious statistical blip that they all just happen to be Muslims rather than being spread across the population of losers from every background and creed.
Perhaps it is not the most important factor (economic reasons coupled with psychological problems would seem to be more critical) but to stick our fingers in our ears and scream 'Lalalala I can't hear you, it's nothing to do with Islam' solves nothing.
A debate needs to be had as to why this particular religion has an element of people within its ranks who decide to suddenly go out and kill people.
Muslims are treated with kid gloves re the ability to offend and it maybe because, when they are offended, rather than support free speech, many turn to violence and a few turn to murder.
How many Christians will be reaching for their machine guns and raiding Edgebaston today?
http://zeenews.india.com/cricket/watch-edgbaston-crowd-plays-beach-ball-during-england-west-indies-test-2034388.html
We have somehow got to the situation where Muslims really do think thet their religion is special because wider society seems to sanction that attitude. We need to get back to a situation in the West where Islam is simply another religion with no special treatment whatsover.
You mean like the KKK (protestant hate group)?
Westboro Baptist Church?
Anders Breivik?
@Ludovico I can point to some very devout Christians in my own country who dissaproved of the attack itself, but 'understood' why they attacked Charlie Hebdo as the magazine had 'definately gone too far'. Those stated they may have done the same if it had been depicitons of Christ.
And I'm supposed to live in one of the most liberal countries in the world.
It's almost as paradoxical as the tolerance we are expected to display, and display without question, toward those terrorist fanatics who are rabidly intolerant of our way of life.
Clutching rather feebly at straws in the ever increasing desperation to let Islam off the hook.
I know the KKK have certainly killed people in their time but can you point to a sustained series of terrorist attacks committed by them? Marching, spouting racism and the odd shooting not really the same.
And I must have missed the report when some Westbrook baptist church followers piled a van into a load of innocent pedestrians. It's laughable to equate standing on a street corner shouting some homophobic bullshit that no one is listening to to driving a van into people and then jumping out with knives to butcher any survivors.
Which leaves you with Breivik. And how many comparable attacks have there been? For every Breivik/KKK white supremacist nutter who commits a terrorist act you've got 50 people who are doing it as a 'perversion of Islam'.
Stop those people first and I'll take my chances with being blown up by Westboro baptist church.
I know I met some of these Christians. And their "argument" is just as sick and twisted. But I think it was overall penis envy: Charlie Hebdo did depict Jesus and the Christian god in a demeaning manner and while some protested they didn't do anything violent against the magazine or its writers. Granted they didn't sell CH in the Bible belt of the USA.
Westboro Baptist Church?
Anders Breivik?"
Yes, I'm sure the good people of Spain are very concerned with attacks from these guys.
I'm no way supporting the KKK but to compare the global situation re Islamic extremism to the KKK is just futher evidence of the wilful efforts by some to ignore the facts.
What happens over there to the ISIL rejects and others who've visited Syria & Iraq in the last 6 years on anything other than official business or proven short family visits? Are they let back into the countries of origin? Are they screened or severely questioned?
Are those who have known to fight for the 'cause' been rehabilitated to cleanse themselves of any lingering misconceptions and delusions?
Has my suggestion from six months ago about controlling 'hate propaganda' in mosques, facebook, google, youtube etc (e.g. with loss of charity status and significant fines on controlling shareholders such as Brin, Zuckerberg, Page et al) been enacted?
Have enhanced methods been put in place to vet immigration and refugee claims?
If not, then what's the point of discussing this any further? One could be forgiven for believing that Western governments are encouraging this.
No you clearly don't live in Europe do you!!
The childlike innocence of your questions is touching.
In Europe the priority is not to do anything that might be considered contrary or offensive to Islam. And obviously as everything causes offence to Islam our governments do nothing but appease.