Now that Quantum is revealed, does this mean.... (Warning: Spoilers)

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Comments

  • edited May 2016 Posts: 15,123
    If Craig is in good shape and look and the next Bond movie in not too long a delay, I hope he does one more. That said, let's not forget that we had in the past one actor taking over the mantle when the Bond-Blofeld antagonism was still going strong (and in a way had barely started). And it worked. In fact, OHMSS was a far superior movie to YOLT. In a way it was more of a followup to the first four Bond movies, but that is another matter.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Ludovico wrote: »
    If Craig is in good shape and look and the next Bond movie in not too long a delay, I hope he does one more. That said, let's not forget that we had in the past one actor taking over the mantle when the Bond-Blofeld antagonism was still going strong (and in a way had barely started). And it worked. In fact, OHMSS was a far superior movie to YOLT. In a way it was more of a followup to the first four Bond movies, but that is another matter.

    the complaints about Dan's looks have been a (non)issue since CR - even then there were complaints that he 'has an old face'..... personally, i don't care.... i think the only thing that has changed about him over the years since CR is that his body is less bulky than it once was... IMO, Dan still looks good - he's no 57 year old Rog just out of face lift surgery in AVTAK tho lol..

    in regards to Spectre - i think the core difference was we had 3 films where Bond directly dealt with the organization, and confronting it's mysterious leader in YOLT felt like a good climax for Sean, but also worked as a branching off point for someone new to take over...

    in SP we got the organization and Blofeld all crammed into one film - and it just seems like a terrible waste of the property... i think the only way EON can make SP better than merely being a one off, is by making Bond 25 an extension of the ending of SP - meaning that new film (with Craig on board) should focus on Spectre's retaliation on MI6 for capturing their leader - and it should focus on Bond's struggle with normalcy, and how living a normal life just doesn't cut it - and he needs the service.
  • Posts: 15,123
    It made sense though to have Spectre be the force behind the events of CR and QOS, given the tentacular power it yeld in SP. And for the same reasons and to a lesser degree, it also made sense of at least some knowledge and approval of the activities of Raoul Silva. I always understood (I may be wrong) that Silva was a contractual not unlike dr No rather than a full time employee of Spectre.

    And thinking about it, while I'd love Craig to do one last Bond movie, given that he is in good shape, etc. I think if they cast a new Bond going after Blofeld would bring a nice touch of continuity. Like it did in OHMSS. I do agree that Bond 25 should deal both with Spectre's retaliation and Bond's struggling with civilian life.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited May 2016 Posts: 4,399
    But going after Blofeld for what?.. he's incarcerated... that is why i think doing 1 last one with Craig, to kind of set the ship back on course is paramount..... they don't have to permanently kill off Blofeld, or even show him easily getting away at the end - but perhaps, as an example, he's trapped in a place that explodes - but you never see his body, or see him specifically die... you could pass it off as "presumed dead", then allow him to resurface later for the next actor - should they so choose..... having him sitting in a jail cell is a weak resolution for Craig's Bond (or any Bond for that matter - christ almighty nice guy Rog dropped him down a smoke stack lol)...

    and i am not saying it didn't make sense to have Spectre as the real masterminds behind Quantum - but a little more exposition explaining just how they are would've been nice - but like i said, the only thing that ever tells us they are, is a voice over from Wishaw saying that they are, based off of DNA samples from a ring (which is convoluted on it's own - so everyone wore that same exact ring, or came in contact with it?? - thats really stretching things).... and i never once considered Silva a part of Spectre or Quantum or whoever, until they retconned it SP - i prefer him being his own loose cannon, with his own crazy agenda, rather than acting on behalf of Blofeld, to sour Bond's life... Because Silva's issues went far beyond Bond, obviously - he was all about revenge on M, Bond was simply in his way..
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    HASEROT wrote: »
    But going after Blofeld for what?.. he's incarcerated... that is why i think doing 1 last one with Craig, to kind of set the ship back on course is paramount..... they don't have to permanently kill off Blofeld, or even show him easily getting away at the end - but perhaps, as an example, he's trapped in a place that explodes - but you never see his body, or see him specifically die... you could pass it off as "presumed dead", then allow him to resurface later for the next actor - should they so choose..... having him sitting in a jail cell is a weak resolution for Craig's Bond (or any Bond for that matter - christ almighty nice guy Rog dropped him down a smoke stack lol)...

    and i am not saying it didn't make sense to have Spectre as the real masterminds behind Quantum - but a little more exposition explaining just how they are would've been nice - but like i said, the only thing that ever tells us they are, is a voice over from Wishaw saying that they are, based off of DNA samples from a ring (which is convoluted on it's own - so everyone wore that same exact ring, or came in contact with it?? - thats really stretching things).... and i never once considered Silva a part of Spectre or Quantum or whoever, until they retconned it SP - i prefer him being his own loose cannon, with his own crazy agenda, rather than acting on behalf of Blofeld, to sour Bond's life... Because Silva's issues went far beyond Bond, obviously - he was all about revenge on M, Bond was simply in his way..

    Regard the ring - the idea is that the toxicology reports on the deceased all showed traces of the same element, a specific element from the Kartenhoff meteorite from which the ring is forged (I forget the name). Hence anyone who wore a ring could be linked. Not sure why they omitted the exposition.
  • Posts: 15,123
    Blofeld is incarcerated now that doesn't mean he'll remain so. And it's not like villains don't escape prison. Not only in Bond movies.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Blofeld is incarcerated now that doesn't mean he'll remain so. And it's not like villains don't escape prison. Not only in Bond movies.

    but i dont believe that brings any real sense of closure to Craig's run - not in the "it's the perfect send off for Daniel" as Mendes as company like to spin it... i find it more of an open ending than a resolution befitting of someone's supposed last film - because i dont feel like the story arch they were trying to weave is complete at the end of SP - it feels like the end of part 1 of a 2 part film.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    RC7 wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    But going after Blofeld for what?.. he's incarcerated... that is why i think doing 1 last one with Craig, to kind of set the ship back on course is paramount..... they don't have to permanently kill off Blofeld, or even show him easily getting away at the end - but perhaps, as an example, he's trapped in a place that explodes - but you never see his body, or see him specifically die... you could pass it off as "presumed dead", then allow him to resurface later for the next actor - should they so choose..... having him sitting in a jail cell is a weak resolution for Craig's Bond (or any Bond for that matter - christ almighty nice guy Rog dropped him down a smoke stack lol)...

    and i am not saying it didn't make sense to have Spectre as the real masterminds behind Quantum - but a little more exposition explaining just how they are would've been nice - but like i said, the only thing that ever tells us they are, is a voice over from Wishaw saying that they are, based off of DNA samples from a ring (which is convoluted on it's own - so everyone wore that same exact ring, or came in contact with it?? - thats really stretching things).... and i never once considered Silva a part of Spectre or Quantum or whoever, until they retconned it SP - i prefer him being his own loose cannon, with his own crazy agenda, rather than acting on behalf of Blofeld, to sour Bond's life... Because Silva's issues went far beyond Bond, obviously - he was all about revenge on M, Bond was simply in his way..

    Regard the ring - the idea is that the toxicology reports on the deceased all showed traces of the same element, a specific element from the Kartenhoff meteorite from which the ring is forged (I forget the name). Hence anyone who wore a ring could be linked. Not sure why they omitted the exposition.

    and again - that is something that needed to be discovered after the movie, because the movie itself didn't make that clear enough..... thats a failure of story telling...

    ... i am not advocating being spoon fed every little last detail - but something like that needs to be incorporated, because it's a pretty big "why" and "how" that they don't directly address.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    HASEROT wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    But going after Blofeld for what?.. he's incarcerated... that is why i think doing 1 last one with Craig, to kind of set the ship back on course is paramount..... they don't have to permanently kill off Blofeld, or even show him easily getting away at the end - but perhaps, as an example, he's trapped in a place that explodes - but you never see his body, or see him specifically die... you could pass it off as "presumed dead", then allow him to resurface later for the next actor - should they so choose..... having him sitting in a jail cell is a weak resolution for Craig's Bond (or any Bond for that matter - christ almighty nice guy Rog dropped him down a smoke stack lol)...

    and i am not saying it didn't make sense to have Spectre as the real masterminds behind Quantum - but a little more exposition explaining just how they are would've been nice - but like i said, the only thing that ever tells us they are, is a voice over from Wishaw saying that they are, based off of DNA samples from a ring (which is convoluted on it's own - so everyone wore that same exact ring, or came in contact with it?? - thats really stretching things).... and i never once considered Silva a part of Spectre or Quantum or whoever, until they retconned it SP - i prefer him being his own loose cannon, with his own crazy agenda, rather than acting on behalf of Blofeld, to sour Bond's life... Because Silva's issues went far beyond Bond, obviously - he was all about revenge on M, Bond was simply in his way..

    Regard the ring - the idea is that the toxicology reports on the deceased all showed traces of the same element, a specific element from the Kartenhoff meteorite from which the ring is forged (I forget the name). Hence anyone who wore a ring could be linked. Not sure why they omitted the exposition.

    and again - that is something that needed to be discovered after the movie, because the movie itself didn't make that clear enough..... thats a failure of story telling...

    ... i am not advocating being spoon fed every little last detail - but something like that needs to be incorporated, because it's a pretty big "why" and "how" that they don't directly address.

    Yeah. Like I said, not sure why it was omitted.
  • edited May 2016 Posts: 15,123
    HASEROT wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Blofeld is incarcerated now that doesn't mean he'll remain so. And it's not like villains don't escape prison. Not only in Bond movies.

    but i dont believe that brings any real sense of closure to Craig's run - not in the "it's the perfect send off for Daniel" as Mendes as company like to spin it... i find it more of an open ending than a resolution befitting of someone's supposed last film - because i dont feel like the story arch they were trying to weave is complete at the end of SP - it feels like the end of part 1 of a 2 part film.

    I thought there was a sense of closure to the Craig era, if SP is the last film of the Craig era (not that I want it to be): Blofeld is captured, Bond is off the service, etc. It is however the new introduction of Blofeld. His future escape and Bond's return to service would fit very well a new Bond actor, give him the proper introduction while giving a sense of continuity. if done properly of course.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Wait...the rings in SP are made from the meteorite housed at Blofeld's? First time I'm hearing about it.
  • Posts: 15,123
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Wait...the rings in SP are made from the meteorite housed at Blofeld's? First time I'm hearing about it.

    Me too.
  • RC7RC7
    edited May 2016 Posts: 10,512
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Wait...the rings in SP are made from the meteorite housed at Blofeld's? First time I'm hearing about it.

    Me too.

    Yes. Mendes confirmed it.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Ludovico wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Blofeld is incarcerated now that doesn't mean he'll remain so. And it's not like villains don't escape prison. Not only in Bond movies.

    but i dont believe that brings any real sense of closure to Craig's run - not in the "it's the perfect send off for Daniel" as Mendes as company like to spin it... i find it more of an open ending than a resolution befitting of someone's supposed last film - because i dont feel like the story arch they were trying to weave is complete at the end of SP - it feels like the end of part 1 of a 2 part film.

    I thought there was a sense of closure to the Craig era, if SP is the last film of the Craig era (not that I want it to be): Blofeld is captured, Bond is off the service, etc. It is however the new introduction of Blofeld. His future escape and Bond's return to service would fit very well a new Bond actor, give him the proper introduction while giving a sense of continuity. if done properly of course.

    what i bolded in your words is exactly why it doesn't sit well with me as closure... much like how Nolan screwed with Batman's character motivations to fit his needs, so i feel Mendes and co. altered Bond's to suit their needs.. Bond (as a character) isn't long for normal life outside of the service - which is why i feel like if Craig does return, they need to continue on - and IMO, show just how it's not a life for him.. he is 007, he just doesn't quit... as i stated in another thread - the sins of his work should follow him home, and leaving Blofeld alive should have dangerous repercussions - that need to be resolved..... if it's done with a new actor, so be it - but i would prefer it be done with Craig, and let it be his last.... allow then whoever takes over after him the clean slate (so to speak) by not having to directly address left over plot elements from the previous actor..
  • Posts: 15,123
    I would prefer that Craig does another one too. But I can live with a new actor picking things up as they left them.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited May 2016 Posts: 40,976
    If the Blofeld storyline was done a little better, I'd probably want a better string of continuity by having Craig return for a fifth, but after seeing SP, the storyline itself was rather poor, and Blofeld's arrested, so they're in a perfect spot to pick things up with a new actor and call on Blofeld in the near future. They've done it before, why not again?
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    If the Blofeld storyline was done a little better, I'd probably want a better string of continuity by having Craig return for a fifth, but after seeing SP, the storyline itself was rather poor, and Blofeld's arrested, so they're in a perfect spot to pick things up with a new actor and call on Blofeld in near future. They've done it before, why not again?

    100% agree. As @Ludovico said, with Blofeld arrested and Bond off the service, SPECTRE brought perfect closure to Craig's tenure, and considering how badly the handled the whole Quantum/SPECTRE/Blofeld stuff, they better hire a new actor and start a new storyline.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    If the Blofeld storyline was done a little better, I'd probably want a better string of continuity by having Craig return for a fifth, but after seeing SP, the storyline itself was rather poor, and Blofeld's arrested, so they're in a perfect spot to pick things up with a new actor and call on Blofeld in the near future. They've done it before, why not again?

    poppycock.... poppycock i say. lol
  • GumboldGumbold Atlantis
    Posts: 118
    So what's the consensus here? Quantum is a subsection of SPECTRE?
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Gumbold wrote: »
    So what's the consensus here? Quantum is a subsection of SPECTRE?

    Unfortunately that's what it looks like. IMO the biggest missed opportunity of the Craig era was not sticking with Quantum.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    There should have been a montage where SPECTRE absorbs Quantum, like a corporate takeover. Could've brought back 007 and counting, would've been epic.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    There should have been a montage where SPECTRE absorbs Quantum, like a corporate takeover. Could've brought back 007 and counting, would've been epic.

    Montages are so 80s!
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    There should have been a montage where SPECTRE absorbs Quantum, like a corporate takeover. Could've brought back 007 and counting, would've been epic.

    Montages are so 80s!

    You say that like it's a bad thing.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Remington wrote: »
    There should have been a montage where SPECTRE absorbs Quantum, like a corporate takeover. Could've brought back 007 and counting, would've been epic.

    Montages are so 80s!

    You say that like it's a bad thing.

    I say that like it was sarcasm...because it mostly was.

    Anyway, SF technically gave us a modern workout montage for Bond, so tropes of the 80s are perhaps still at large, if only slightly.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,582
    DAD's title sequence/torture scene was a montage.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    QBranch wrote: »
    DAD's title sequence/torture scene was a montage.

    And then the love montage of Bond and Tracy in OHMSS, and I think there's a small montage of Bond and Kara as they enter Vienna, if I remember correctly.
  • GumboldGumbold Atlantis
    Posts: 118
    Quantum is said by Purvis and Wade to be the South American division run by Dominic Greene. So what Bond was dealing with in CR was not Quantum, but SPECTRE and White was a member of that. When Bond took Greene down, he basically took Quantum down as well.

    Do you have a source on this?
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