Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Ludovico wrote: »
    But there's Christopher Lee in it! I don't like Gun much but I do like Moore's acting more in this film than many others. I find the movie bad in a frustrating way, while DAD is bad in an infuriating way.

    There's nothing wrong with Moore's performance, but the film was the nadir of the series up to that point.
  • I know it's impossible to pick an objective worst because it's all subjective, but if I had to try, TMWTGG would definitely be it. At least DAD is coherent and well put together, and you do get the sense that they're genuinely trying and really going all out.

    TMWTGG is cheap, shlocky, lazy and messy as well as being terrible imo. There's the whole section of the film where Bond fights sumo wrestlers and grabs ones arse with a terrible accompanying sound effect, then spared to be killed at a karate school (contrived even by Bond standards), then escapes and is rescued by karate school girls who abandon him for no apparent reason, but it's okay because that means we can have another long boring boat chase because everyone loved that bit in LALD. I think that whole stretch of film is worse than anything in DAD.

    And to be honest Christopher Lee just makes me hate it even more because of the wasted potential. Such a good premise and such a good villain and they didn't even try. No other film in the series has seemed so content to piss up so much potential up the wall. I just think it's such a lazy poorly done film and it shows in every way. By the time the limp finale comes round (watch out for that one guard James! Oh no Goodnight's arse has doomed us all from having what, affordable solar power? Still don't understand and still don't care; makes the knockoff lektor in FYEO feel like the fate of the world is at stake) I'm just past the point of caring. DAD is an OTT mess but you at least get the sense they're going all out. It's a fun watch. Can't say the same about TMWTGG. It's clear that nobody involved really cared so why should we. Even Barry gives one of his weaker scores (still one of the few bright spots though).

    Y'know I've always thought QoS was my least favourite but thinking about it, I think it might be TMWTGG.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited November 2017 Posts: 9,117
    Fine words.

    Particularly about arse cheek sumo/karate schoolgirls/Hip's gormless ditching of Bond/JW v elephant/Phuyuck which has to be the must dismal 30 mins of the series (DAD included).

    And at least Bond is trying to prevent WW3 in DAD and not just cheaper electricity.

    And given he actually retrieves the Solex why isn't the UK a global superpower by the time TSWLM rolls around?
  • Posts: 19,339
    Fine words.

    Particularly about arse cheek sumo/karate schoolgirls/Hip's gormless ditching of Bond/JW v elephant/Phuyuck which has to be the must dismal 30 mins of the series (DAD included).

    Not forgetting that bloody whistle ,which totally makes a mockery of one of the best stunts in the series.

  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Fair enough, and despite other flaws I’d add TMWTGG to that list of ‘is he going to pull through?’.

    Nevertheless, speaking of Fleming, his Bond was also classy, bon vivant and not an everyday muscleman. Something we’ve lost during the Craig years.

    The reason why I liked Bond more than any other (action) hero was his refined tastes and his cultural snobbery. Something that set him apart from others. I miss that a lot.

    This.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Villains should not be Bond's equals but Bond's superiors. They have to be more intelligent and better organized.

    I never thought about that, but you're absolutely right.

    When they say a villain is Bond's equal or Bond's match it irritates me more than when they say it about a Bond girl. I mean how unexciting is it to have your hero go against reasonably difficult odds?

    This is an irritant. It should only have been applied to two villains. Trevelyan and Scaramanga.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,569
    I think this may be a controversial opinion here:

    I would like to see a return to those Flemingesque film titles that include words such as:

    Love, Gold, Live, Never, Kill, Die etc.

    It might be cool to get one of them for Craig's last film, considering he's had mostly short titles so far.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    QBranch wrote: »
    I think this may be a controversial opinion here:

    I would like to see a return to those Flemingesque film titles that include words such as:

    Love, Gold, Live, Never, Kill, Die etc.

    It might be cool to get one of them for Craig's last film, considering he's had mostly short titles so far.

    A Whisper Of Love could've worked for SP if the Madeleine romance was better handled.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Fine words.



    And at least Bond is trying to prevent WW3 in DAD and not just cheaper electricity.

    I think we have post of year right here.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Post of the year??? What about this one???
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    I'm excluding you dear @Thunderfinger - all your posts are genius of the highest level.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Flattery is getting you...somewhere. Wanna hang out?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited November 2017 Posts: 9,117
    royale65 wrote: »
    Fine words.



    And at least Bond is trying to prevent WW3 in DAD and not just cheaper electricity.

    I think we have post of year right here.

    Seriously? I much preferred the pineapple colonic from the other thread myself.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    To be fair I've been MIA for the past week or so.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,785
    The post of the year is a negative comment about a Bond film.

    This never happened to the other forum.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited November 2017 Posts: 6,288
    jobo wrote: »
    I hate the fun house scene! It's so unnecesarry and ridiculous and just drags. And then there is the frustration that they vasted time and effort with that stupid idea instead of making TMWTGG the proper spy thriller it was supposed to be. If Scaramanga prides himself of being such a brilliant asassin, why would he need such a thing? They build up the tention of having the two supposedly best gun men in the world go against each other. Yet they never demonstrate any skill at all, and are reduced to fooling around on an infantile play land of ridiculousness!

    Arrg, I feel my blood starts to boil just with the thought of this utter stupidity!

    Bang on the money. The mano a mano showdown of what we are told are the two greatest guns on the planet comes down to Bond dressing up as a tailors dummy and Scaramanga being too thick to notice he has grown all his fingers back and is wobbling all over the place like Sean's panavision gunbarrel.

    And after that limp finale you've got the even feebler thrills of the Solex climax where we gasp in excitement at whether the cretinous Goodnight will kill Bond before he manages to....what exactly? Retrieve the MacGuffin? High stakes indeed.

    TMWTGG is pretty terrible. Actually take Christopher Lee out and it might challenge DAD for worst of all. At least DAD throws the kitchen sink on the screen and is never boring (apparently the new benchmark for quality in a Bond film) whereas there are vast swathes of TMWGG that are mind numbingly tedious.

    LOL! I'd like to add that if you are going to show the world's greatest assassin versus the world's greatest secret agent, how about showing us several actual assassinations instead of just the aftermath (RIP Andrea Anders)?
  • Posts: 12,466
    I give MR a lot of grief, and for now it is ranked at the bottom, but I must say the title song has grown on me tremendously. Is it a fairly beloved title song among other members here?
  • mreamemreame United States
    Posts: 8
    Speaking of soundtracks... I genuinely love the score from Goldeneye. I think the cold metal sound effects and synths perfectly compliment the film's story and tone, given that it's dealing with Old Russia vs New Russia and the internet/modern technology.

    I will concede that the original score for the tank chase - 'A Pleasant Drive in St Petersburg' - is absolutely horrific and I am glad the scene was re-score by something more traditional.

    Oh, and Éric Serra's 'Experience of Love' is also the drippiest bit of music to feature on the credits of a Bond movie (and that's saying something).

    And yet, despite these crimes against Sound itself, I still like the overall score and think the Goldeneye overture, played during the PTS, perfectly captures the mood of this new era of 007.

    Totally agree. Maybe it's nostalgia, and/or that I mentally connect the soundtrack with the video game. Either way, I really like it too. It just feels right for that movie.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,114
    Apparently not much love for TMWTGG here, but for me it’s Moore’s best.

    Or at least my favourite. Scaramanga is my favourite villain of the series, Moore gives what is probably his most Flemingesque performance, I adore the South Asian atmosphere and the music score, the sets are impressive (especially the stranded boat HQ and the island) and I also like the overall absurdity of the film.

    Some lovely Swedish contributions in this one as well ;)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I give MR a lot of grief, and for now it is ranked at the bottom, but I must say the title song has grown on me tremendously. Is it a fairly beloved title song among other members here?

    It is one of my favourites.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    It's a bit disconcerting that we take our anger out on TMWTGG when films like QoS exist within the franchise. Let's focus the frustration where it belongs, shall we and Leave TMWTGG alone? It's a good Bond film. :(
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    It's a bit disconcerting that we take our anger out on TMWTGG when films like QoS exist within the franchise. Let's focus the frustration where it belongs, shall we and Leave TMWTGG alone? It's a good Bond film. :(

    I couldn't see anyone taking their 'anger' out on TMWTGG. Just members expressing an opinion on it as a pretty weak film.

    QoS currently sits at 7th in my Bond rankings so go figure...
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited November 2017 Posts: 7,114
    Can't see Craig having a laugh with a bad wine.

    He'd probably bash the waiter's head in with it ;)

    Phuyuck.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Can't see Craig having a laugh with a bad wine.

    Exactly. The fact he can't do it is a limitation. When I see people comparing Craig and Connery, I shake me head. Craig is the opposite. Connery was the least limited Bond actor there has been, and thereby the most complete Bond actor to date. Craig has benefited by the fact that the films have played to his strengths since the word go. Dalton never got a film that was tailored to him. Even LTK is horribly mismatched. What I noticed in SP was for the first time Craig struggling with his delivery. That's what I realised, that Craig is the least adaptable actor out of the 6. As soon as he is called to move an inch out of his comfort zone, he just looks awkward.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited November 2017 Posts: 7,114
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Can't see Craig having a laugh with a bad wine.

    Exactly. The fact he can't do it is a limitation. When I see people comparing Craig and Connery, I shake me head. Craig is the opposite. Connery was the least limited Bond actor there has been, and thereby the most complete Bond actor to date. Craig has benefited by the fact that the films have played to his strengths since the word go. Dalton never got a film that was tailored to him. Even LTK is horribly mismatched. What I noticed in SP was for the first time Craig struggling with his delivery. That's what I realised, that Craig is the least adaptable actor out of the 6. As soon as he is called to move an inch out of his comfort zone, he just looks awkward.

    He wouldn't even know the difference.

    In QOS Mathis' girlfriend says: "È un vino qualsiasi."
    Translated: "This is just any kind of wine."
    Which means it's as average as they go.

    Bond laughs and pours himself a glass.

    Not exactly the connoisseur who unmasks villains because he knows Mouton Rothschild is a claret.

    I can even imagine Fleming writing something like: Bond disliked people who drank any kind of wine just for the sake of drinking wine.
  • Posts: 12,466
    Semi-controversial opinion: You Know My Name is one of my favorite Bond title songs.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited November 2017 Posts: 1,984
    One of my favourites as well. Works brilliantly with the title sequence. I don't understand why people consider it mediocre.
  • Posts: 7,507
    One of my favourites as well. Works brilliantly with the title sequence. I don't understand why people consider it mediocre.

    People just don't like Cornell, and refuse to admit he made something good...
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Can't see Craig having a laugh with a bad wine.

    He'd probably bash the waiter's head in with it ;)

    Phuyuck.

    Is this where we're at now?

    The Craig era is so hated that we hark for a return to the 'good old days' of terrible Sid James-esque gags with semi racial overtones? (Although obviously this doesn't stop me laughing at 'Phuyuck')

    But a bit of perspective please - yes SP was poor but to measure it by the lamentable standards of TMWTGG and DAD is hyperbole in the extreme.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited November 2017 Posts: 1,984
    Let's not forget that TMWTGG had an entire middle section which had nothing to do with the plot or premise of the movie. Everything from the sumo fight to the end of the boat chase was completely irrelevant and clearly thrown in for cheap laughs. SP (or even DAD) never stooped that low.
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