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  • Posts: 15,127
    Tiny Tim is still an MP? I'm all for boycotting the World Cup: England gets humiliated every time anyway. But yes, something needs to be done and something stronger.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2018 Posts: 9,117
    Oh....nothing happened.

    I'm feeling a bit foolish spending £60k on that nuclear shelter and buying up every tin of beans in Tesco earlier this afternoon.

    I guess Bond saved the day again:

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    Oh....nothing happened.

    I'm feeling a bit foolish spending £60k on that nuclear shelter and buying up every tin of beans in Tesco earlier this afternoon.

    But now you can enjoy beans in your nuclear shelter, so it's not a TOTAL loss.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Britain EXPELS 23 Russian diplomats over nerve agent attack plunging into worst battle with Moscow since Cold War .

    Theresa May today plunged into the gravest battle with Russia since the Cold War as she unveiled a hardline response to the "reckless and despicable" attack on ex-spy Sergei Skripal.

    The Prime Minister announced 23 diplomats would be expelled as she condemned the nerve agent poisoning in a damning House of Commons statement.
    Her move is set to prompt furious retaliation by the Kremlin.

    Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov declared today: "Britain has continued to stage a political performance."
    Without concrete facts, it is a flagrant attempt to mislead the international community - to which we will have to respond."

    Moscow flagrantly ignored a deadline of midnight last night to explain how Skripal, 66, his daughter Yulia, 33, and bystanders including DS Nick Bailey were hit with Novichok.
    Britain said the nerve agent - up to 10 times deadlier than the feared chemical weapon VX - was produced by Russia.

    Prime Minister Mrs May said it was "highly likely" Moscow was behind the attack - either deliberately using the nerve agent or losing control of it.
    Yet foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said claims of his country's involvement were "rubbish" and the embassy refused to respond until the UK sends "samples" of the deadly agent.
    Minutes before the statement - as Russia's ambassador to London arrived at the Foreign Office on foot - Mr Lavrov declared there had been "only regress, we don't see any progress."
    At the same time Britain's ambassador to Moscow confirmed he had discussed events around the poisoning with the Russian Foreign Ministry.

    The United States, European Union and NATO all voiced support for Britain ahead of the statement and Mrs May discussed the case with the leaders of Germany and France.
    Donald Trump, who also had a phone call with the Prime Minister, said yesterday: "It sounds to me like it would be Russia based on all of the evidence they have."

    But Russia's embassy fired off a salvo of tweets last night warning the threat of sanctions would be met "with a response".
    Russia threatened last night to expel all British media in retaliation after Britain warned it could strip Russian broadcaster RT of its UK operating licence.
    Lavrov said Russia would be ready to provide Britain with a response within 10 days if London submitted an official request, in line with the Chemical Weapons Convention.

    "Instead of submitting such a request, Britain has continued to stage a political performance," Lavrov said.
    Without concrete facts, it is a flagrant attempt to mislead the international community, to which we will have to respond," the minister added.

    Meanwhile police and MI5 will look into allegations that 14 other deaths on UK soil may be linked to Russia after Home Secretary Amber Rudd bowed to pressure.

    And counter-terror police last night launched a probe into the death this week of Russian exile Nikolai Glushkov - who was a close friend of Vladimir Putin critic Boris Berezovsky.

  • Posts: 15,127
    At least it's something done although I don't think it'll do much in the great scheme of things.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    What a scam.
  • But something WAS done: Trump fired Tillerson for acknowledging Russia's part in the affair. So let's not take our eyes off the prize here...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    But something WAS done: Trump fired Tillerson for acknowledging Russia's part in the affair. So let's not take our eyes off the prize here...

    I've dug down to the bottom of this box and I don't see no prize.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    But something WAS done: Trump fired Tillerson for acknowledging Russia's part in the affair. So let's not take our eyes off the prize here...

    Just like I said the other day, Trump will attack anyone and anything BUT Russia. It's quite telling.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Interesting but worrying times!!
  • Posts: 19,339
    BBC news have just reported that Russia are to expel British diplomats...getting tricky now.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Without hard evidence, what can T May do rather than just posture. Expelling diploments is a tired, cliche and, as we have seen, it draws us into a tit for tat, childish spiral.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Well, be prepared for an old fashined cold war spiral.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/14/politics/nikki-haley-russia-spy-poisoning/index.html

    This would even give Trump the possibility to make Putin an evil enemy without beeing the one profiting from Putin's work, or th GOP now can push Trump aside as a danger to the state and remain in power (regain enough popularity for the midterms). But that would actually require them to act, whereas they've trained themselves to remain sockpuppets.

    mind not that I personally'd be happy about it, it's just an assessment.

  • Posts: 4,617
    Classic PR spin tactic/photo opportunity. Considering how busy she is, how can a visit help compared to being briefed by phone/video link. And the media fall for it and create a headline out of nothing:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43414824
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2018 Posts: 9,117
    patb wrote: »
    Without hard evidence, what can T May do rather than just posture. Expelling diploments is a tired, cliche and, as we have seen, it draws us into a tit for tat, childish spiral.

    Do these people know nothing about the Russian psyche? They aren't put out in slightest by any of this and will happily go tit for tat all day long. Giving the Russians an ultimatum is utterly counterproductive as they won't be threatened by anyone and will happily soak it up.

    They consider it a victory if all your guys are dead and so are theirs but they still have one guy left alive.
    patb wrote: »
    Without hard evidence, what can T May do rather than just posture. Expelling diploments is a tired, cliche and, as we have seen, it draws us into a tit for tat, childish spiral.
    I find this an interesting point - I'm yet to see any solid evidence presented yet it's ok to throw out threats and deadlines saying it's 100% the Russians.

    Yet when some nutter mows down a load of pedestrians in a van and there is plenty of video footage of him visiting the local mosque we are told that we mustn't jump to conclusions that there isn't any link to Islam.

    It's a good job the Russians are white and universally hated as otherwise you might think there's an argument that the West is racially prejudiced against them as a people and happy to assume they are all completely dodgy.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Anyone here too young to remember the Cold War? Well you're not too young anymore. This is what it was like. Watch as Trump inevitably exacerbates the situation.
  • Posts: 5,997
    We have a saying in France : "On ne prête qu'aux riches" (you only lend to rich people). Meaning that if somebody has done something bad before, there's a chance that they are behind the most recent bad thing. And the Russians have plenty of exeperience in that kind of things. Remember Markov's execution with a poisonous umbrella ? Or the poisoning of AlexanderLitvinenko by polonium ? And remember that Putin is a member of the KGB (once a member, always a member). So, here again, the most likely culprits are the Russians.

    As for what Theresa May might have done, I have no clue. Organizing an assassination in retaliation might lead to further retaliation down the line, not to mention that many things can go wrong in this kind of plot. So, expelling diplomats, threatening trade, asking that no british officials appear at the World Cup might be the ony options she has.
  • Posts: 15,127
    And let's not forget: Novichok is not exactly a poison some amateur biochemist can make in his garden shed. And Russia's reaction has been a callous and borderline gloating one. No compassion whatsoever for the victims. That doesn't prove their guilt mind you, but that's enough to cast serious doubts about their innocence.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Suspicion=proof.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/15/russia-ripping-up-the-international-rule-book-says-defence-secretary

    Now we've got what appears to be a secondary school geography supply teacher getting lairy.

    Vlad and his boys are premier league and we're sending out a team packed with Beazer Homes League talent like this clown.

    The roars of laughter coming out of the Kremlin must be audible in Kamchatka.
  • Posts: 15,127
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/15/russia-ripping-up-the-international-rule-book-says-defence-secretary

    Now we've got what appears to be a secondary school geography supply teacher getting lairy.

    Vlad and his boys are premier league and we're sending out a team packed with Beazer Homes League talent like this clown.

    The roars of laughter coming out of the Kremlin must be audible in Kamchatka.

    "Russia should go away and shut up" that's the stuff of primary school fights. What's next? Russia stinks?
  • Posts: 19,339
    One of Britain's nuclear submarines breaks through Arctic ice for first time in decade amid Russia tensions .

    HMS Trenchant breaks through a metre of ice in the Arctic in a show of Britain's military strength. The Royal Navy submarine is taking part in Ice Exercise 18, a major operation in conjunction with US forces.

    It is the first time in a decade a Navy submarine has practiced beneath the ice amid increasing tensions with Russia.

    The Arctic region has become an increasing focus of competition. Russia is believed to hide its ballistic missile submarines there while NATO nations are developing skills to locate and destroy them
    .

    BBKhKx7.img?h=485&w=728&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

    It comes as Britain is braced for a reaction to Theresa May's decision to expel 23 diplomats. A tit-for-tat reaction is expected and Moscow is also plotting a response to the United States after Donald Trump's administration imposed sanctions on Russians allegedly involved in interfering with the 2016 US elections and cyber-attacks.

    The attack on former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury was highlighted by the US Treasury as one of the justifications for the tougher line against Moscow.


    The US treasury department said the use of a military-grade nerve agent in the Salisbury incident "further demonstrates the reckless and irresponsible conduct of its (Russia's) government".

    BBKhKx8.img?h=485&w=728&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

    Trenchant joins US submarines USS Connecticut and USS Hartford for ICEX18, a series of demanding trials in the frigid climate of the Arctic Circle

    The sanctions prompted a swift threat of retaliation from the Russian government, which said a response was already being prepared.

    Meanwhile the Kremlin continued to consider how to respond to Mrs May after the largest expulsion of diplomats since the Cold War was announced on Wednesday.

    President Vladimir Putin had a meeting with his security council on Thursday to consider UK-Russia relations.
    Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov warned Moscow will expel British diplomats "soon" and suggested that the "provocation with Skripal" was an attempt to distract attention from the Brexit process.

    Mr Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the final decision on retaliatory measures "will, of course, be made by the Russian president", adding: "There is no doubt that he will choose the variant that best of all corresponds to the interests of the Russian Federation".

    In a demonstration of the West's unity, Mrs May and Mr Trump, along with Germany's Angela Merkel and France's Emmanuel Macron, issued a joint statement endorsing the Prime Minister's conclusion that it was "highly likely" Russia was behind the attack on the Skripals.
    The Daily Telegraph reported that the nerve agent used in the attack could have been planted in Yulia Skripal's suitcase during a recent trip to Moscow.

    The newspaper said senior intelligence sources believe an item of clothing, cosmetics or a gift could have been laced with the Novichok toxin.


    Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn , whose response to the attack has led to criticism from some on his backbenches, said "the evidence points towards Russia" being responsible - but the possibility of gangsters being behind the attack rather than the Kremlin could not be excluded.
    He warned Mrs May not to "rush way ahead of the evidence" - highlighting the way international crises such as the Iraq War had seen "clear thinking" overwhelmed by "emotion and hasty judgments".

    Writing in the Guardian he warned against a "new Cold War" of "escalating arms spending, proxy conflicts across the globe and a McCarthyite intolerance of dissent".


    Confirming Labour's support for Mrs May's actions, Mr Corbyn said: "We agree with the Government's action in relation to Russian diplomats."
    But he added: "Measures to tackle the oligarchs and their loot would have a far greater impact on Russia's elite than limited tit-for-tat expulsions."

    Mr Corbyn said that Mrs May was right on Monday to identify two possibilities for the source of the nerve agent - either Russia authorised the attack or had lost control of the Novichok substance.

    "If the latter, a connection to Russian mafia-like groups that have been allowed to gain a toehold in Britain cannot be excluded," he said.

    BBKhjNF.img?h=485&w=728&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=256&y=242

    The Labour leader, who opposed the 2003 invasion of Iraq, added: "In my years in parliament I have seen clear thinking in an international crisis overwhelmed by emotion and hasty judgments too many times.

    "Flawed intelligence and dodgy dossiers led to the calamity of the Iraq invasion."

    Scotland Yard Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu, who heads up the national counter-terror police network which is leading the Salisbury investigation, appealed for anyone with information about the "despicable" and "appalling" attack to come forward.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Jesus who do we think we are? Getting pretty provocative now reminding Vlad we're a nuclear power. Where does Teresa think this is going to stop?
  • Posts: 4,617
    Trying to emulate the Iron Lady
  • DikkoHendersonDikkoHenderson Daniel Craig at the plastic surgery clinic- "Gently my friend Gently... THAT'S NOT BLOODY GENTLY!!"
    Posts: 50
    Almost makes me want to break into a showtunes version of "Nobody does it better"!
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    More like "Ride to Atlantis".
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The nerve agent was produced in the Soviet Union three-four decades ago. Russia wasn t alone in that union. Besides, it could be produced anywhere. Even Britain.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    The nerve agent was produced in the Soviet Union three-four decades ago. Russia wasn t alone in that union. Besides, it could be produced anywhere. Even Britain.

    Or even @Thunderfinger's basement.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    If we are just acting on suspicions, how about Ukraine? I suspect them, so punishment is in order.
  • Posts: 15,127
    It's more than suspicion at this point. The evidence that is publicly known points to Russia as the culprit. Russia has the means, the motives, the MO, the history as well. And how do Russian authorities react to the accusations? By mocking the people victim of the terrorist attack! The Islamists did the same after 9/11. "It's not us, but these American dogs deserved it and God is great."
This discussion has been closed.