Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondsum wrote: »
    "Saltzman all through his life would remain adamant that the actor who played Bond mattered little in the scheme of things. "
    I used to feel this way, until the Brosnan years.

    At that point, I realized that the actor is in fact critical. I really don't think any actor can play Bond. One has to 'be Bond'. It has to appear natural. He is a far more complex character than many give him credit for.

    We all know who Connery is now, but when we look back on those older performances, even knowing who he is, we still see Bond. That's from the performance, rather than from him being unknown (because he's not any more) in my view. I think people who know Connery first for other things can then watch a Connery Bond film and see a near perfect Bond.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    bondjames wrote: »
    Turner looks great in 'still photos'. I have yet to see him demonstrate convincingly that he can be Bond 'in motion' and 'through acting'.

    Have you seen And Then There Were None yet? That was the clincher for me.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Yes, but Connery and Brosnan is all hindsight, @bondjames. They were both very successful at the box office and both very different in their roles, proving that Saltzman was right. Also, neither Connery nor Brosnan were A-list movie actors before Bond. It was Bond that made them into A-list actors. I'm sure Saltzman didn't quite believe he could stick any actor, like Tom Courtenay say, in the role and audiences would buy into it. But what he was saying was that they didn't need a star actor to play the role and that "they", the producers, could make their chosen actor be their James Bond.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Turner looks great in 'still photos'. I have yet to see him demonstrate convincingly that he can be Bond 'in motion' and 'through acting'.

    Have you seen And Then There Were None yet? That was the clincher for me.
    I've only seen the clips that have been posted on this site from that film of him. I'll admit that I'm not 'feeling it' from those clips. The most convincing is when he's sitting in the train with the cigarette, but that is due to 'the look'. He has an intensity in his look which is suitable, but when he talks and acts, I'm not sensing it, which is why I'm still not sold on him. There is a bit of Pierce in him to me (looks great but I'm concerned about delivery). Dalton, who you compare him to, had far more suitable natural menace imho.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondsum wrote: »
    Yes, but Connery and Brosnan is all hindsight, @bondjames. They were both very successful at the box office and both very different in their roles, proving that Saltzman was right. Also, neither Connery nor Brosnan were A-list movie actors before Bond. It was Bond that made them into A-list actors. I'm sure Saltzman didn't quite believe he could stick any actor, like Tom Courtenay say, in the role and audiences would buy into it. But what he was saying was that they didn't need a star actor to play the role and that "they", the producers, could make their chosen actor be their James Bond.
    I agree on that score @bondsum. I misunderstood Saltzman's comments then. For sure, the actor does not have to be a 'star' and I agree too that it's probably better that he is not a star. That's for sure.

    Personally, I think Connery was a near perfect Bond. I don't think Brosnan was though (his performance changed in nearly every film) and I think that was because he was having trouble finding the essence of the character, and that is what I mean about Bond being complex, and not able to be played by anyone. I wasn't referring to box office success where he of course did deliver (in my view that was his greatest contribution to the series, and he cannot be faulted for that at all).
  • Posts: 3,333
    Absolutely, @bondjames. That's always been both producer's stance on the casting of Bond. An "unknown" is better than an established actor, though there have been many stories about other more established actors being approached before and after Connery, none were ever cast in the final role. Maybe these names (Eastwood and Burton) were just publicity casting stunts at the time? What matters is none of them got to play the role.

    From someone who has watched both And Then There Were None and The Night Manager I much prefer what I've seen of Turner as opposed to Hiddleston. Of course, there's never going to be a unanimous consensus on the next Bond as we all have our own idea who we think JB is. And because there have been so many different takes on the character: Moore vs Connery, Moore vs Dalton, Dalton vs Brosnan, Brosnan vs Craig, there will be many opposing views on what makes the perfect Bond. I just happen to like what I've seen of Turner more than what I've seen of Hiddleston.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Turner looks great in 'still photos'. I have yet to see him demonstrate convincingly that he can be Bond 'in motion' and 'through acting'.

    Have you seen And Then There Were None yet? That was the clincher for me.
    I've only seen the clips that have been posted on this site from that film of him. I'll admit that I'm not 'feeling it' from those clips. The most convincing is when he's sitting in the train with the cigarette, but that is due to 'the look'. He has an intensity in his look which is suitable, but when he talks and acts, I'm not sensing it, which is why I'm still not sold on him. There is a bit of Pierce in him to me (looks great but I'm concerned about delivery). Dalton, who you compare him to, had far more suitable natural menace imho.

    You are right, I do see him as closest to Dalton. And since Dalton is my favourite (despite his films not being my favourite), naturally I see this as a massive plus.

    Obviously the premise of ATTWN is that a group of strangers are summoned to a strange house on an island under false pretenses when it appears there is a murderer in their midst. When I sat down last Christmas to watch it, I had no idea that this guy was even suitable. I had seen the ads, and it may have crossed my mind that he looked bondian in his suit, but I never expected much from him. After watching part 1 I was absolutely buzzing!! I won't spoil anything, but Turner was extremely Daltonesque from the start. Since then it struck me that Craig is very rarely intense as Bond in the same way that Dalton was. Craig is calm and ruthless, or he is distressed. Rarely does he have that flare in his eyes, that passion. He tends to demonstrate his passion by performing impossible stunts. A top five Bond moment ever for me is when Dalton turns to camera and says "Yes, I got the message" that's so Bond it hurts!! That's what Turner has is spades, that intensity!!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @bondsum, @Mendes4Lyfe, I respect your opinions, as well as other Turner advocates here. So I'm going to get my hands on a copy of And Then There Were None and see what I think of this chap who you are all sold on.

    I agree as well @Mendes4Lyfe that Dalton definitely did intense better than all the other actors. If 'stares' could kill. It was more than just the 'stare' though - it was the mannerisms and the voice/delivery. That's what made Dalton menacing and credible as Bond. I didn't find him all that suave though.

    I agree with you @bondsum about all the different takes on the character and the difficulty in finding agreement. I happen to think that Connery (in DN - TB) and Moore (in LALD, TMWTGG, TSWLM & FYEO) were the best all rounders (along with Craig in CR) because they all were able to bring 'smooth' along with 'intense' nicely in those films. A difficult combination to deliver.
  • Posts: 3,333
    After watching part 1 I was absolutely buzzing!! I won't spoil anything, but Turner was extremely Daltonesque from the start.

    I couldn't agree more, @Mendes4Lyfe. That was exactly the same thought that crossed my mind, too. I thought he was a slam dunk Dalton replacement if ever I saw one. The good thing with Turner is he's younger, fitter and would have plenty of years left open to him to make 5 or 6 Bond movies.

    And I agree, @bondjames, those Bond movie choices of yours (though I'd include OHMSS in there and Dalton's) would be my prefered take on JB, too.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    bondjames wrote: »
    @bondsum, @Mendes4Lyfe, I respect your opinions, as well as other Turner advocates here. So I'm going to get my hands on a copy of And Then There Were None and see what I think of this chap who you are all sold on.

    I agree as well @Mendes4Lyfe that Dalton definitely did intense better than all the other actors. If 'stares' could kill. It was more than just the 'stare' though - it was the mannerisms and the voice/delivery. That's what made Dalton menacing and credible as Bond. I didn't find him all that suave though.

    I agree with you @bondsum about all the different takes on the character and the difficulty in finding agreement. I happen to think that Connery (in DN - TB) and Moore (in LALD, TMWTGG, TSWLM & FYEO) were the best all rounders (along with Craig in CR) because they all were able to bring 'smooth' along with 'intense' nicely in those films. A difficult combination to deliver.

    Exactly right! There are several moments during his short tenure when Dalton would flick up his eyelids in such a way that floors me everytime. I consider it the equivilant of Roger's arched eyebrow, a signature facial gestue, as it were. To me that intense quality is the fundamental quality that EON should be looking for. I can forego some of the more superficial aspects for that. Craig is most definitely a serious Bond, but his stares were largely conveying fear, loss, anxiety, pain, regret etc. That is the complete opposite of Dalton whose stares conveyed anger, contempt, hosility, cynicism etc.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    @bondsum, @Mendes4Lyfe, I respect your opinions, as well as other Turner advocates here. So I'm going to get my hands on a copy of And Then There Were None and see what I think of this chap who you are all sold on.

    I watched it at Christmas. He has the look, but he's missing something for me. Hiddleston has that superb ability to convey internal machinations with only a look. I never got this from Turner, it was all surface level. I actually think he'd be spot on in a 50s era Bond TV series, but up their on the silver screen as a modern, multi-layered 007, Hiddleston trumps him for presence and ability imo.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2016 Posts: 23,883
    One thing I've noticed with EON's casting decisions (bar Lazenby which arguably was a one off) is that they tend to switch it up based on the prevailing approach of the prior actor's tenure.

    So for example, Moore was arguably a little more finessed than Connery. Dalton was rougher edged than Moore. Brosnan was similarly more finessed & smoother than Dalton. Then came Craig as the rough blunt instrument. So based on this, it's likely they will go with someone more smoother this time around.

    I think it's probably because they maybe prefer to avoid direct comparisons to the prior actor, so take a different tack each time.
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @bondsum, @Mendes4Lyfe, I respect your opinions, as well as other Turner advocates here. So I'm going to get my hands on a copy of And Then There Were None and see what I think of this chap who you are all sold on.

    I watched it at Christmas. He has the look, but he's missing something for me. Hiddleston has that superb ability to convey internal machinations with only a look. I never got this from Turner, it was all surface level. I actually think he'd be spot on in a 50s era Bond TV series, but up their on the silver screen as a modern, multi-layered 007, Hiddleston trumps him for presence and ability imo.
    This has been my impression as well, but I have to watch that film to make sure. I agree with you on Hiddleston's ability to convey a lot with a look, but I can also see other's point/suspicion about him not seeming 'intense or dangerous' enough. As I said, I personally think it's just because he hasn't been called on yet to give 'that look' but I think he can, based on what I've seen of his acting so far.

    I think Fassbender probably trumps them all though, but I don't think he'll get it due to his fame and age.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @bondsum, @Mendes4Lyfe, I respect your opinions, as well as other Turner advocates here. So I'm going to get my hands on a copy of And Then There Were None and see what I think of this chap who you are all sold on.

    I watched it at Christmas. He has the look, but he's missing something for me. Hiddleston has that superb ability to convey internal machinations with only a look. I never got this from Turner, it was all surface level. I actually think he'd be spot on in a 50s era Bond TV series, but up their on the silver screen as a modern, multi-layered 007, Hiddleston trumps him for presence and ability imo.
    This has been my impression as well, but I have to watch that film to make sure. I agree with you on Hiddleston's ability to convey a lot with a look, but I can also see other's point/suspicion about him not seeming 'intense or dangerous' enough. As I said, I personally think it's just because he hasn't been called on yet to give 'that look' but I think he can, based on what I've seen of his acting so far.

    As Loki he has many moments where he's pretty unhinged and definite moments of intensity. I don't see it as a problem at all. I think people are getting too wrapped up in the visuals and not in the abilities of these candidates. Hiddleston was not playing Bond in TNM, but there were echoes. He's completely capable of a darker shift.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2016 Posts: 8,400
    I think it is a little different this time. I don't think that bow tie twirling comedy bond is an opinion anymore. They're going to have to find someone with vigour and charm, who also has that sense of danger/intensity. Hiddleston only has the former IMO.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2016 Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @bondsum, @Mendes4Lyfe, I respect your opinions, as well as other Turner advocates here. So I'm going to get my hands on a copy of And Then There Were None and see what I think of this chap who you are all sold on.

    I watched it at Christmas. He has the look, but he's missing something for me. Hiddleston has that superb ability to convey internal machinations with only a look. I never got this from Turner, it was all surface level. I actually think he'd be spot on in a 50s era Bond TV series, but up their on the silver screen as a modern, multi-layered 007, Hiddleston trumps him for presence and ability imo.
    This has been my impression as well, but I have to watch that film to make sure. I agree with you on Hiddleston's ability to convey a lot with a look, but I can also see other's point/suspicion about him not seeming 'intense or dangerous' enough. As I said, I personally think it's just because he hasn't been called on yet to give 'that look' but I think he can, based on what I've seen of his acting so far.

    As Loki he has many moments where he's pretty unhinged and definite moments of intensity. I don't see it as a problem at all. I think people are getting too wrapped up in the visuals and not in the abilities of these candidates. Hiddleston was not playing Bond in TNM, but there were echoes. He's completely capable of a darker shift.
    That's very true actually. He did exhibit some characteristics of it in Loki. I liken his TNM performance to Craig in Layer Cake - not Bond by any means, but definitely showing lots of effortless & confident potential, for those looking carefully.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I think it is a little different this time. I don't think that bow tie twirling comedy bond is an opinion anymore. They're going to have to find someone with vigour and charm, who also has that sense of danger/intensity. Hiddleston only has the former IMO.

    Why do you keep conflating Hiddleston with being a comedy Bond? Have you even seen The Night Manager?
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2016 Posts: 8,400
    I only ever saw one episode of TNM and was not impressed. That vicar started causing a scene and Hiddles stepped in to apologise to the other diners. Oh, yes, very Bondian. Hiddleston has too much of that "if I washed it, would you touch it" Hugh Grant vibe about him. He's what Americans think of when they think of a typical Englishman. He would be box office gold in the USA, which is doubtless why EON is considering him.
  • Posts: 1,631
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think Fassbender probably trumps them all though, but I don't think he'll get it due to his fame and age.

    This I would definitely agree with, and I'm not even one that would rank Fassbender particularly near the top of my list of people to replace Craig. Still, he'd be a far better choice than Elba, Hiddleston, or Turner, but at the same time is, as you said, bordering on being to old to take over the gig. If they moved right now on Fassbender, they could probably make it work, but if we're looking at the next film being released in 2019 or later, he'll be too old to be starting out in the role.

    I still think that it's most likely we're going to get someone replacing Craig that hasn't come up in this round of discussions to this point.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I only ever saw one episode of TNM and was not impressed. That vicar started causing a scene and Hiddles stepped in to apologise to the other diners. Oh, yes, very Bondian. Hiddleston has too much of that "if I washed it, would you touch it" Hugh Grant vibe about him. He's what Americans think of when they think of a typical Englishman. He would be box office gold in the USA, which is doubtless why EON is considering him.
    I see where you're coming from, but I think he's quite a step up from Hugh Grant. I don't see the caricature of an English gentleman - just a more polished one than what we've seen over the past few years, and I like that personally. I think it's a matter of finesse. A Bond differentiator.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I only ever saw one episode of TNM and was not impressed. That vicar started causing a scene and Hiddles stepped in to apologise to the other diners. Oh, yes, very Bondian. Hiddleston has too much of that "if I washed it, would you touch it" Hugh Grant vibe about him. He's what Americans think of when they think of a typical Englishman. He would be box office gold in the USA, which is doubtless why EON is considering him.

    Ah, so you're basing your entire opinion on one episode. That explains a lot.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    bondjames wrote: »
    I only ever saw one episode of TNM and was not impressed. That vicar started causing a scene and Hiddles stepped in to apologise to the other diners. Oh, yes, very Bondian. Hiddleston has too much of that "if I washed it, would you touch it" Hugh Grant vibe about him. He's what Americans think of when they think of a typical Englishman. He would be box office gold in the USA, which is doubtless why EON is considering him.
    I see where you're coming from, but I think he's quite a step up from Hugh Grant. I don't see the caricature of an English gentleman - just a more polished one than what we've seen over the past few years, and I like that personally. I think it's a matter of finesse. A Bond differentiator.

    I'm sure Hiddleston is a better actor than Hugh Grant, of course he is. What I mean is he shares the same charmingly befuddled persona. I have tried to watch some of his interviews on american TV talk shows. He spends all his time shifting nervously and spamming that toothy grin and the audience laps it up. I find it hard to believe he won't play up to that as Bond on screen.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2016 Posts: 8,400
    RC7 wrote: »
    I only ever saw one episode of TNM and was not impressed. That vicar started causing a scene and Hiddles stepped in to apologise to the other diners. Oh, yes, very Bondian. Hiddleston has too much of that "if I washed it, would you touch it" Hugh Grant vibe about him. He's what Americans think of when they think of a typical Englishman. He would be box office gold in the USA, which is doubtless why EON is considering him.

    Ah, so you're basing your entire opinion on one episode. That explains a lot.

    Yeah, sorry, I probably just caught the one where he gets all the Mooreisms out of the way.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    I only ever saw one episode of TNM and was not impressed. That vicar started causing a scene and Hiddles stepped in to apologise to the other diners. Oh, yes, very Bondian. Hiddleston has too much of that "if I washed it, would you touch it" Hugh Grant vibe about him. He's what Americans think of when they think of a typical Englishman. He would be box office gold in the USA, which is doubtless why EON is considering him.
    I see where you're coming from, but I think he's quite a step up from Hugh Grant. I don't see the caricature of an English gentleman - just a more polished one than what we've seen over the past few years, and I like that personally. I think it's a matter of finesse. A Bond differentiator.

    I'm sure Hiddleston is a better actor than Hugh Grant, of course he is. What I mean is he shares the same charmingly befuddled persona. I have tried to watch some of his interviews on american TV talk shows. He spends all his time shifting nervously and spamming that toothy grin and the audience laps it up. I find it hard to believe he won't play up to that as Bond on screen.
    @Mendes4Lyfe, I get your point, but I think you are confusing Hiddleston the man (who does appear somewhat Hugh Grant'ish in interviews - I've acknowledged that myself here) with Hiddleston the actor. He is far from that in TNM if you watch the entire run (I've not, because it's still ongoing where I am, but I've seen enough to realize he has a wide range of acting attributes).

    No doubt he is more naturally sophisticated than Craig (imho) but that doesn't make him a pansy. He's far more than that on screen.
  • edited May 2016 Posts: 1,631
    bondjames wrote: »
    I only ever saw one episode of TNM and was not impressed. That vicar started causing a scene and Hiddles stepped in to apologise to the other diners. Oh, yes, very Bondian. Hiddleston has too much of that "if I washed it, would you touch it" Hugh Grant vibe about him. He's what Americans think of when they think of a typical Englishman. He would be box office gold in the USA, which is doubtless why EON is considering him.
    I see where you're coming from, but I think he's quite a step up from Hugh Grant. I don't see the caricature of an English gentleman - just a more polished one than what we've seen over the past few years, and I like that personally. I think it's a matter of finesse. A Bond differentiator.

    I'm sure Hiddleston is a better actor than Hugh Grant, of course he is. What I mean is he shares the same charmingly befuddled persona. I have tried to watch some of his interviews on american TV talk shows. He spends all his time shifting nervously and spamming that toothy grin and the audience laps it up. I find it hard to believe he won't play up to that as Bond on screen.

    He's an actor, and a fairly decent one. Why would he play up something that's completely unrelated to the character of Bond if he were to get the part? He's managed to create a fairly popular villain in Loki, a character which I can't imagine would have catapulted him to his current standing if he bore any resemblance to Hugh Grant.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    I only ever saw one episode of TNM and was not impressed. That vicar started causing a scene and Hiddles stepped in to apologise to the other diners. Oh, yes, very Bondian. Hiddleston has too much of that "if I washed it, would you touch it" Hugh Grant vibe about him. He's what Americans think of when they think of a typical Englishman. He would be box office gold in the USA, which is doubtless why EON is considering him.

    Ah, so you're basing your entire opinion on one episode. That explains a lot.

    Yeah, sorry, I probably just caught the one where he gets all the Mooreisms out of the way.

    Which 'Mooreisms' were those?
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2016 Posts: 8,400
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I only ever saw one episode of TNM and was not impressed. That vicar started causing a scene and Hiddles stepped in to apologise to the other diners. Oh, yes, very Bondian. Hiddleston has too much of that "if I washed it, would you touch it" Hugh Grant vibe about him. He's what Americans think of when they think of a typical Englishman. He would be box office gold in the USA, which is doubtless why EON is considering him.

    Ah, so you're basing your entire opinion on one episode. That explains a lot.

    Yeah, sorry, I probably just caught the one where he gets all the Mooreisms out of the way.

    Which 'Mooreisms' were those?

    Well, tripping over himself with platitudes for those diners for a start. Turner never cared for others in ATTWN, he had the "If he fires me, I'll thank him for it" attitude down to a tee.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2016 Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I only ever saw one episode of TNM and was not impressed. That vicar started causing a scene and Hiddles stepped in to apologise to the other diners. Oh, yes, very Bondian. Hiddleston has too much of that "if I washed it, would you touch it" Hugh Grant vibe about him. He's what Americans think of when they think of a typical Englishman. He would be box office gold in the USA, which is doubtless why EON is considering him.

    Ah, so you're basing your entire opinion on one episode. That explains a lot.

    Yeah, sorry, I probably just caught the one where he gets all the Mooreisms out of the way.

    Which 'Mooreisms' were those?

    Well, tripping over himself with platitudes for those diners for a start.
    That was the character. He was supposed to smooth things over, like he did in the Madrid meeting in the same episode. Roper was looking for his ability in this regard, as an alternative to Corkoran, who he was losing faith in.
  • Posts: 1,631
    Not everything is an audition for Bond. All this tells us, I think, is that both actors are playing a part in their respective productions.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    That Loki role earned him the reputation he has. Those Thor films were mostly watched by woman to enjoy Hemsworth/Hiddleston.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    dalton wrote: »
    Not everything is an audition for Bond. All this tells us, I think, is that both actors are playing a part in their respective productions.

    And yet people see Bond vibes in TNM. The mind boggles.
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