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I agree with Barbara's recent comments. His race isn't really relevant anymore in 2020 that's just his appearance which has already changed loads, so the way I see it he can be any colour. But a woman shouldn't even be a suggestion. He wouldn't be Bond anymore.
To be honest I suggest those who are dead against it brace themselves for the possibility. Could just be keeping the press happy obviously but I dunno she's a pretty progressive sort so I genuinely think the next one might not be white. And I'd like this place to still be bearable if/when that happens so can we all promise now whether we agree or disagree with the casting to keep calm and not start screaming at eachother over it? I know this sort of thing is a recipe for the PC gone mad crowd and the woke crowd to start really getting at eachother but I'd hate for this site which I've been on and enjoyed for years to devolve into toxic arguments.
I've never seen Idris in anything that I can recall. So I know nothing of his acting ability or suaveness level.
Looking at him, though I think he looks like he might make a decent Mike Hammer rather than Bond.
Even though Ian Fleming was a tad xenophobic? And the novels were basically written in an imaginary world where the archetypal Anglo-Saxon white male defends the free world in the name of the British Empire?
When my friend voiced that opinion I didn't bother questioning it. Perhaps because he didn't actually read the novels, but listened to the audio versions. I tried that and didn't quite get the same experience as digesting the words through my own eyes.
If "Bond's appearance changed so much, in 2020 it shouldn't be a problem"
Why you think that Bond shouldn't be a woman?
After all...Bond's appearance changed so much, in 2020 it shouldn't be a problem
Or maybe you think that Superman should be played by a black guy too since he also changed appearance so many times? And since his logo was changed so many times in the movies (different shapes) maybe instead of S they can put just a square? Or maybe since he once wore pants over his suit and his suits changed so many times, there should be n problem if he wore green outfit?
I mean..Superman is more than his outfit surely?
That's it!
Superman with a square logo and a green outfit = Superman.
He's a fictional character who's logo was changed so much, and Superman is a CHARACTER and not an outift.
This is not like The Doctor since The Doctor is a character who regenerates.
The Doctor being a woman is something that's been canonized. He can regenerate into whatever. That's not something huge.
The Doctor can literally be a squirrel and it would make sense.
+1 if wonder woman was played by black male i am sure most of pc crowd would be more than happy and taking it with same spirit 😁 .
Because changing his skin colour is a matter of appearance for me (I realise for others like you it holds more baggage so fair enough, I've had this conversation too many times, we're not going to change eachothers mind). Changing his gender is changing the character entirely. Bond's whole character is based around masculinity. You can do colourblind casting. You can't do genderblind casting, because a character is either a man or a woman (or identifies as neither or whatever, bit behind with the times on that but whatever floats your boat). And Bond is a man. So they'll always have to cast a man. That's the way I see it. Obviously it's different if it's a film about race or a period piece or something, then you need to take race into account for casting. But that doesn't apply to the modern Bond films imo. The scripts/stories necessitate a good looking, credibly tough looking man for the part, but they don't necessitate that he's white.
I was comparing it to Doctor Who in terms of how much people would care, because people above were talking about it. They cast a female Doctor. The woke crowd loved it. The PC gone mad crowd hated it. The majority just didn't care, and by the time we got to her second series, which is on now, her gender isn't even being mentioned at all in conversations about it anymore. She's not the new woman doctor anymore, she's just the doctor now.
I agree it's not the same (hence why Bond can't be a woman) but I think that's what would happen with the reaction to a black Bond. Some would love it, some would hate it, most wouldn't be bothered either way, and after the initial shock it'd be completely forgotten about and people would just be talking about him like they do any other Bond.
And sure cast a black Superman, I don't care. I don't know much about him but would it really make a difference. Don't know much about him so maybe I'm wrong but, like Bond, there's nothing about his character in modern times that says "white man" is there. So I wouldn't be bothered. Someone will probably throw out the white Shaft thing any minute now too, which I've always said is different because being black is literally his whole identity, but y'know what why not. It's not the end of the world is it. Make him one of those white guys that reeaally wants to be black. That could actually be a pretty funny spin ;)
I’ve read the novels many times. I think your friend is fibbing....I don’t think he’s read them at all. Idris is nothing like Fleming’s Bond in appearance or character. Not to mention how Fleming describes race in his books....in modern times he would be described as openly racist!! Can your friend read???
That's exactly what I was going to say. Your friend is either pulling your leg, or he's a moron.... ;)
As for Idris Elba, too old. End of. I could delve into the race issue too but cannot be bothered. What Elba does have going for him, is that he carries the masculinity and toughness, he's almost like a black version of Sean Connery.
Going for someone with the same attributes (Sean Connery), is the way to go, but personally I still want Bond white, because I'm a Fleming purist, and want the films to be as close to the books as possible (I think everyone on here knows that by now...)
Michale B Jordan of Creed and Black Panther fame has recently pitched a Superman film with him in the title role.
He has clout right now and I can see this being seriously considered.
https://movieweb.com/superman-michael-b-jordan-pitch/
Well said!
If Michael B Jordan was English he'd be the top of my list for the next Bond...he's gorgeous, athletic, has swagger, he's cool, urbane, sophisticated and a fine dresser. Not to mention a terrific actor. Someone with movie star charisma. Women love him and so do men.......he'd be perfect.
I mean, we have had an English actor play Batman and Superman. Maybe an American playing Bond isn't a horrible idea.
I have no strong predilection for being described as a 'true fan' - seems to me a bit a vague and ambiguous title to aspire for. but I could be down for either Elba or Jordan taking the role. If that puts my 'fan' credentials to shame, then so be it.
This. +1
+1 =D>
I don't call them fan. They are more of a fan of what's in trend, which is highly immature and childish. People these days don't want to make films which offer something substantial, they want make make more & more money by pleasing PC crowd at the cost of film's quality.
Anyway, i'd like to continue my support for Scott Adkins. When I think of Bonds image, lately I have been think not of the Hoagy Carchmichael comparrison, but of Vivienne's reaction in TSWLM. With that in mind, I think Adkins fits that more than any other candidate right now.
There is also that guy in the gambling advert, he needs a hair cut and shave, but he has a strong, tough look to his face, one might even say a little weathered. I can't imagine another unknown being cast though.
Exactly.
Idris is a fine actor. But, Bond is and will always be a caucasian male of Scottish/ Swiss descent and the day that changes he no longer is Bond.
An American playing Bond IS a horrible idea. As is Jordan playing Bond. Borderline 'trolling' Ha ha ha!
Why is it okay to call 'white people' white? I'm not white, certainly not printer paper white. Those are just generalized terms, nothing more.
@Pierce2Daniel Your definition of Bond is different from mine and many others. That's okay. You more or less support an entity that isn't really Bond, your version of him more like. Which is also okay.
Fleming described Bond as looking like musician Hoagy Carmichael. As such, we’ve never gotten a screen incarnation of 007 who matches Fleming’s description perfectly, and across 50+ years there has been quite a bit of variation. Black hair, brown hair, blonde hair. Blue eyes, brown eyes. Scottish, Welsh, Irish, even an Australian. The persona, too, tends to shift with each portrayal: Sean Connery’s earthy, predatory swagger; Roger Moore’s upper crust dandyism; Daniel Craig’s “blunt instrument” interpretation. But whatever the variations thus far, there’s a glaring commonality among these actors which - let’s just say it - clearly leaves Idris Elba out of the running.
I’d venture to say that casting a black actor to take over the role of Great Britain’s iconic savior is more than a template shift. It’s in some ways a reinvention of the character at a core DNA level. With this in mind it certainly isn't ok to change this IMO.
As for a black Bond, the guy, David Washington starring in Nolan's Tenet "has it". Issue is he is American.
Agree, Turner should be screen tested.
Any American nomination should be automatically filed in the bin.
Timothy Dalton is half American from his mother. Both Daniel Craig and Pierce Brosnan are American citizens.......so.......
Bond is a fictional character. I don't support him like a political party or a football team. i enjoy the films as entertainment, escapism and their historical significance. Basically I geek out on Bond films. I'm not praying to any sacred texts.
i want a great film - that's well crafted, with great themes and performances. That's kinda it.
If the best actor for the role is black, then so be it. Personally, whilst Jordan isn't entirely feasible as he is American. I still believe that Idris is the best and most exciting actor for the role.....He just is James Bond
Fleming isn't in charge of James Bond anymore, she is and she says he can be any race......
Quite right, @JeremyBondon.
Nonetheless, it is the version of a fan, not the original as thought up by its creator. A reader has his interpretation of a character and that's just fine, even of the narrative itself, but the real deal is the author's perspective on it.
I still say, want to have a go at a character? Then by all means, create your own. Do your own intelectual work, write it up, publish it, and then come to me and I'll tear it apart in favour of my own interpretation. Then you can tell me how it feels.
This is a disservice to a dead man who gave us our fandom. Don't they dare call it Ian Fleming's James Bond if he just isn't. By all means, call it EON's James Bond. @Pierce2Daniel's James Bond. But it's not Ian Fleming's. They've been shedding its layers too much. He can't smoke, he can't flirt, he can't be caucasian, he can't be this and that. At the end of the day, it won't be James Bond.
It's ok to have opinions, interpretations, different views, but please do not disrespect intelectual property. That is as bad as anything else.
I'm as much of an anti-racist as I am an anti-intelectual property dismemberment. There, rant over.
@Pierce2Daniel, I like you man, you're a great internet researcher and a valuable member. That being said, and for the last couple of years, I find myself in disagreement with practically all of your opinions, being it a Nomi 007 spinoff, a black Bond, or whatever. Sometimes, it really sounds as gaslighting and reason arsoning, but I know it isn't and I know you're very adamant on supporting your views. But they mostly aren't what this character is about. I'm sorry, but they just aren't. That being said, do carry on. Who am I to stop your ramblings. @M_Balje, for example, posts things that make a helluva more sense. But hey, in the end, we're all fan, right? ;)
Broccoli’s response is a careful treading of a figurative minefield, deft diplomacy.
Now I can’t read her mind, but even if she believes that Bond should continue to be portrayed by a Caucasian actor, not because of racism but because of preference and tradition of an established character, there is no way in hell that she would disturb that hornets nest by expressing it.
These are the criteria that I look for in the MAN who could be a Bond actor in order of importance (Bond is not a woman obviously!!!):
1. Charisma / "it" factor / presence (call it what you will)
2. Physically attractive to the opposite sex (could be included in 1)
3. Believable that they cold do the physical side of the job (height / stature etc)
4. acting ability
5. Nationality
I put nationality down rather than race specifically. The role should go to whoever scores best in those areas.
If in two years you offered me a choice between a group of millennial effete types who look like they would curl up into a ball and cry if confronted with something in Bonds line of work that all happened to be white, or a younger (hopefully slightly better acting ability) version of Idris Elba I know which one I would rather choose!
Obviously race would also potentially come into play if both options were totally equal in all other areas.
In short, we should never be looking for a "Black Bond" rather it should go to whoever best fits the requirements and if that person is of a different ethnicity, so be it!