Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,416
    00Heaven wrote: »
    "...he entered a branch of what was subsequently to become the Ministry of Defence. To serve the confidential nature of his duties, he was accorded the rank of lieutenant in the special branch of the RNVR, and it is a measure of the satisfaction of his services gave to his superiors that he ended the war with the rank of Commander."

    Right.
    My insinuation that the rank was only cover is too much, I would say. It seems like it was more a case of having to fit him into the ranking structure during the war and he actually was a lieutenant and so on, only in Naval Intelligence not in the regular sea-going part of the Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve.
    But I know not nearly enough about the military or Intelligence Services to do more than speculate. Plus, he has to be Commander Bond. There is just no way around it and I would rather take it as anachronistic then either get a weak explanation or worst of all, have him demoted so that some biography somewhere works better.

    Oh yeah I see what you mean now: ‘to serve the confidential nature of his duties’- it does sound like it’s a sort of cover to make him sound like he was in the Navy when he was actually working for the Ministry of Defence. And then, slightly weirdly, they promoted him from that fake(ish) starting rank!

    That’s amazing, I’d never noticed that before.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    I think it's very well wordsmithed and easy to miss, but yes if you re-read it a few times it becomes clear. Quite amusing actually considering what the "Origin" comic does (something, something multiverse :P)!

    This is kind of off topic now though :).
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    00Heaven wrote: »
    I think it's very well wordsmithed and easy to miss, but yes if you re-read it a few times it becomes clear. Quite amusing actually considering what the "Origin" comic does (something, something multiverse :P)!

    This is kind of off topic now though :).

    I actually think the obit fits with the Origin comic, doesn't it?
    Like that is exactly what happens there isn't it? An old friend of his father's (the name escapes me) gets him into a special programme led by "F", right out of school. He first has his basic training there and then spy specific training. Later he is posted to actual vessels but not as part of the regular crew, but as an intelligence liaison. And he pretty soon starts to go on missions that have no connection to the Navy whatsoever.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    00Heaven wrote: »
    I think it's very well wordsmithed and easy to miss, but yes if you re-read it a few times it becomes clear. Quite amusing actually considering what the "Origin" comic does (something, something multiverse :P)!

    This is kind of off topic now though :).

    I actually think the obit fits with the Origin comic, doesn't it?
    Like that is exactly what happens there isn't it? An old friend of his father's (the name escapes me) gets him into a special programme led by "F", right out of school. He first has his basic training there and then spy specific training. Later he is posted to actual vessels but not as part of the regular crew, but as an intelligence liaison. And he pretty soon starts to go on missions that have no connection to the Navy whatsoever.

    Sort of, yeah, when you put it that way. It depends on how far you want to stretch it with the obit and what artistic licence you allow.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,416
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem as likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.
    This is the description of a Commander in the US Navy, but they sound very close:
    Commanders often serve as the captain of a small Navy vessel, such as a frigate, destroyer, or submarine. Commanders may also lead squadrons of aircraft, be placed in charge of a small shore mission, or serve on the staff of a senior officer aboard a large Naval vessel.
    I would say if one of those is in the SBS then he's going to be senior staff leading the thing. Maybe he would, I don't know.

    To get as far as Commander and then decide he just wants to be a soldier going around killing people seems a bit odd Fleming's version where he seems not to have earned the rank as proper RN officers do actually rings a bit truer.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,416
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737

    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces. He just does the training so that he is equipped to be able to do the variety of missions that come along during his work for Mi6 in the 00 section. Hence why the 00s and the SAS are a match during the exercise at the start if TLD.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,416
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces.

    So the not-being-grunts thing doesn't apply then! :)
    I'm talking about Bond as we see him in the films. He's very much the man on the ground pulling triggers- he's doing work which is rather below the purview of a Commander.

    M is an Admiral (or a Lieutenant Colonel is you're a Mallory man): he could be making the tea, but actually he's the head of SIS.
  • Posts: 2,402
    Matthew Goode could have been a great Bond if they were going to do the period piece novel adaptations a few years ago. I feel he's probably just too old by a bit to start now, but I suppose you could get two or three films out of him if he were cast today.
  • Posts: 6,709
    Matthew Goode could have been a great Bond if they were going to do the period piece novel adaptations a few years ago. I feel he's probably just too old by a bit to start now, but I suppose you could get two or three films out of him if he were cast today.

    Age suits him. He'd be better now.
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,318
    manover wrote: »

    Ah yes, The Suspect. Turner looks like a handsome bastard, still. All those women fawning over him in the comments and even a comment high up states "the next Bond". I can only agree with the ladies. They know best, per Dana Broccoli.
    Since62 wrote: »
    Fond of Richard Madden for the role ? Watch The Take, and you'll be cured. You'll get your mind set right and move from proposing Madden.

    Ha. Fully agree.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces. He just does the training so that he is equipped to be able to do the variety of missions that come along during his work for Mi6 in the 00 section. Hence why the 00s and the SAS are a match during the exercise at the start if TLD.



    The SAS and their Royal Marine counterpart the SBS are most definitely not 'soldiers', or grunts (for heaven's sake...) - they are operatives.

    Those selected have, without fault, high IQ and EQ scores, are out-of-the-box thinking problem solvers, have insane endurance both cardiovascular (VO2-max) and muscle-endurance (lactic-acid tolerance) and are usually TYPE-A high achievers with a very high sense of duty and principle.
    They are often non-conformists, but work well in structured teams driven by mutual respect and goal-orientation, rather than traditional (infantry-based) subservience and hierarchy.

    IF 007 were a real person in the current time then there is no doubt he would have been put through the basic SAS or SBS requirements and probably have taken part in several real-world exercises before going solo.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,416
    AceHole wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces. He just does the training so that he is equipped to be able to do the variety of missions that come along during his work for Mi6 in the 00 section. Hence why the 00s and the SAS are a match during the exercise at the start if TLD.



    The SAS and their Royal Marine counterpart the SBS are most definitely not 'soldiers', or grunts (for heaven's sake...) - they are operatives.

    Those selected have, without fault, high IQ and EQ scores, are out-of-the-box thinking problem solvers, have insane endurance both cardiovascular (VO2-max) and muscle-endurance (lactic-acid tolerance) and are usually TYPE-A high achievers with a very high sense of duty and principle.
    They are often non-conformists, but work well in structured teams driven by mutual respect and goal-orientation, rather than traditional (infantry-based) subservience and hierarchy.

    IF 007 were a real person in the current time then there is no doubt he would have been put through the basic SAS or SBS requirements and probably have taken part in several real-world exercises before going solo.

    No-one’s saying he won’t have done the training, it’s about whether someone who has achieved the rank of Commander would be going for that sort of role.
    What rank do the operatives generally hold?
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    …and even a comment high up states "the next Bond".

    Lol, that’s my comment; I posted it to see the reaction.

  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    edited October 2021 Posts: 737
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces.

    So the not-being-grunts thing doesn't apply then! :)
    I'm talking about Bond as we see him in the films. He's very much the man on the ground pulling triggers- he's doing work which is rather below the purview of a Commander.
    AceHole wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces. He just does the training so that he is equipped to be able to do the variety of missions that come along during his work for Mi6 in the 00 section. Hence why the 00s and the SAS are a match during the exercise at the start if TLD.



    The SAS and their Royal Marine counterpart the SBS are most definitely not 'soldiers', or grunts (for heaven's sake...) - they are operatives.

    Those selected have, without fault, high IQ and EQ scores, are out-of-the-box thinking problem solvers, have insane endurance both cardiovascular (VO2-max) and muscle-endurance (lactic-acid tolerance) and are usually TYPE-A high achievers with a very high sense of duty and principle.
    They are often non-conformists, but work well in structured teams driven by mutual respect and goal-orientation, rather than traditional (infantry-based) subservience and hierarchy.

    IF 007 were a real person in the current time then there is no doubt he would have been put through the basic SAS or SBS requirements and probably have taken part in several real-world exercises before going solo.

    I know, @AceHole. This is the point I was making.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,416
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces.

    So the not-being-grunts thing doesn't apply then! :)
    I'm talking about Bond as we see him in the films. He's very much the man on the ground pulling triggers- he's doing work which is rather below the purview of a Commander.
    AceHole wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces. He just does the training so that he is equipped to be able to do the variety of missions that come along during his work for Mi6 in the 00 section. Hence why the 00s and the SAS are a match during the exercise at the start if TLD.



    The SAS and their Royal Marine counterpart the SBS are most definitely not 'soldiers', or grunts (for heaven's sake...) - they are operatives.

    Those selected have, without fault, high IQ and EQ scores, are out-of-the-box thinking problem solvers, have insane endurance both cardiovascular (VO2-max) and muscle-endurance (lactic-acid tolerance) and are usually TYPE-A high achievers with a very high sense of duty and principle.
    They are often non-conformists, but work well in structured teams driven by mutual respect and goal-orientation, rather than traditional (infantry-based) subservience and hierarchy.

    IF 007 were a real person in the current time then there is no doubt he would have been put through the basic SAS or SBS requirements and probably have taken part in several real-world exercises before going solo.

    I know, @AceHole. This is the point I was making.

    Again, no-one is saying he wouldn't do the training to be a double-O, that's not what the point of contention is.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces.

    So the not-being-grunts thing doesn't apply then! :)
    I'm talking about Bond as we see him in the films. He's very much the man on the ground pulling triggers- he's doing work which is rather below the purview of a Commander.
    AceHole wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces. He just does the training so that he is equipped to be able to do the variety of missions that come along during his work for Mi6 in the 00 section. Hence why the 00s and the SAS are a match during the exercise at the start if TLD.



    The SAS and their Royal Marine counterpart the SBS are most definitely not 'soldiers', or grunts (for heaven's sake...) - they are operatives.

    Those selected have, without fault, high IQ and EQ scores, are out-of-the-box thinking problem solvers, have insane endurance both cardiovascular (VO2-max) and muscle-endurance (lactic-acid tolerance) and are usually TYPE-A high achievers with a very high sense of duty and principle.
    They are often non-conformists, but work well in structured teams driven by mutual respect and goal-orientation, rather than traditional (infantry-based) subservience and hierarchy.

    IF 007 were a real person in the current time then there is no doubt he would have been put through the basic SAS or SBS requirements and probably have taken part in several real-world exercises before going solo.

    I know, @AceHole. This is the point I was making.

    Again, no-one is saying he wouldn't do the training to be a double-O, that's not what the point of contention is.

    Noted.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces.

    So the not-being-grunts thing doesn't apply then! :)
    I'm talking about Bond as we see him in the films. He's very much the man on the ground pulling triggers- he's doing work which is rather below the purview of a Commander.
    AceHole wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces. He just does the training so that he is equipped to be able to do the variety of missions that come along during his work for Mi6 in the 00 section. Hence why the 00s and the SAS are a match during the exercise at the start if TLD.



    The SAS and their Royal Marine counterpart the SBS are most definitely not 'soldiers', or grunts (for heaven's sake...) - they are operatives.

    Those selected have, without fault, high IQ and EQ scores, are out-of-the-box thinking problem solvers, have insane endurance both cardiovascular (VO2-max) and muscle-endurance (lactic-acid tolerance) and are usually TYPE-A high achievers with a very high sense of duty and principle.
    They are often non-conformists, but work well in structured teams driven by mutual respect and goal-orientation, rather than traditional (infantry-based) subservience and hierarchy.

    IF 007 were a real person in the current time then there is no doubt he would have been put through the basic SAS or SBS requirements and probably have taken part in several real-world exercises before going solo.

    I know, @AceHole. This is the point I was making.


    I was merely reinforcing your point, dear fellow :-)
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    mtm wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces. He just does the training so that he is equipped to be able to do the variety of missions that come along during his work for Mi6 in the 00 section. Hence why the 00s and the SAS are a match during the exercise at the start if TLD.



    The SAS and their Royal Marine counterpart the SBS are most definitely not 'soldiers', or grunts (for heaven's sake...) - they are operatives.

    Those selected have, without fault, high IQ and EQ scores, are out-of-the-box thinking problem solvers, have insane endurance both cardiovascular (VO2-max) and muscle-endurance (lactic-acid tolerance) and are usually TYPE-A high achievers with a very high sense of duty and principle.
    They are often non-conformists, but work well in structured teams driven by mutual respect and goal-orientation, rather than traditional (infantry-based) subservience and hierarchy.

    IF 007 were a real person in the current time then there is no doubt he would have been put through the basic SAS or SBS requirements and probably have taken part in several real-world exercises before going solo.

    No-one’s saying he won’t have done the training, it’s about whether someone who has achieved the rank of Commander would be going for that sort of role.
    What rank do the operatives generally hold?

    Whichever rank they reached in the Army (SAS) or R.Marines (which is part of the Royal Navy) (read: SBS) after being admitted.

    SBS Command Structure

    Whilst technically part of the Naval Service (Royal Marines and Navy) order of battle (ORBAT), the SBS comes under the umbrella of United Kingdom Special Forces (UKSF), commanded by the Director Special Forces (DSF). UKSF is a directorate that combines several units under one command structure. The SBS, along with the British Army's 22nd Special Air Service (SAS) and the Special Reconnaissance Regiment (SRR) are the so-called 'teir one' special forces. Tier one special forces are supported by the Special Forces Support Group (SFSG), 18(UKSF) signals and the Joint Special Forces Aviation Wing (JSFAW).

    The Special Boat Service is usually commanded by a Lieutenant Colonel with a Major as second in command.

    Each SBS squadron is commanded by an Officer, usually a Royal Marines Major or Royal Navy Lieutenant Commander. Recent reports have stated that a lack of Officers from the Naval Service wishing to command SBS units has led to a number of SAS Officers being drafted in.

    SBS Troops are usually commanded by a Captain.

    https://www.eliteukforces.info/special-boat-service/organisation/
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,416
    AceHole wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces.

    So the not-being-grunts thing doesn't apply then! :)
    I'm talking about Bond as we see him in the films. He's very much the man on the ground pulling triggers- he's doing work which is rather below the purview of a Commander.
    AceHole wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces. He just does the training so that he is equipped to be able to do the variety of missions that come along during his work for Mi6 in the 00 section. Hence why the 00s and the SAS are a match during the exercise at the start if TLD.



    The SAS and their Royal Marine counterpart the SBS are most definitely not 'soldiers', or grunts (for heaven's sake...) - they are operatives.

    Those selected have, without fault, high IQ and EQ scores, are out-of-the-box thinking problem solvers, have insane endurance both cardiovascular (VO2-max) and muscle-endurance (lactic-acid tolerance) and are usually TYPE-A high achievers with a very high sense of duty and principle.
    They are often non-conformists, but work well in structured teams driven by mutual respect and goal-orientation, rather than traditional (infantry-based) subservience and hierarchy.

    IF 007 were a real person in the current time then there is no doubt he would have been put through the basic SAS or SBS requirements and probably have taken part in several real-world exercises before going solo.

    I know, @AceHole. This is the point I was making.


    I was merely reinforcing your point, dear fellow :-)

    What kind of rank do the operatives generally hold? Around the level of Sergeant (for SAS) or much higher?
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    AceHole wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces.

    So the not-being-grunts thing doesn't apply then! :)
    I'm talking about Bond as we see him in the films. He's very much the man on the ground pulling triggers- he's doing work which is rather below the purview of a Commander.
    AceHole wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces. He just does the training so that he is equipped to be able to do the variety of missions that come along during his work for Mi6 in the 00 section. Hence why the 00s and the SAS are a match during the exercise at the start if TLD.



    The SAS and their Royal Marine counterpart the SBS are most definitely not 'soldiers', or grunts (for heaven's sake...) - they are operatives.

    Those selected have, without fault, high IQ and EQ scores, are out-of-the-box thinking problem solvers, have insane endurance both cardiovascular (VO2-max) and muscle-endurance (lactic-acid tolerance) and are usually TYPE-A high achievers with a very high sense of duty and principle.
    They are often non-conformists, but work well in structured teams driven by mutual respect and goal-orientation, rather than traditional (infantry-based) subservience and hierarchy.

    IF 007 were a real person in the current time then there is no doubt he would have been put through the basic SAS or SBS requirements and probably have taken part in several real-world exercises before going solo.

    I know, @AceHole. This is the point I was making.


    I was merely reinforcing your point, dear fellow :-)

    No worries, @AceHole, just making sure! Have a good day.
  • Posts: 6,709
    Thank you, @AceHole, old friend, for your very informative posts. Any chance EON would hire you as a consultant of sorts? They need one ;)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,416
    AceHole wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Far better to have him as a former Commander in the RN who then does SBS/SAS style training as part of his training to be considered for 00 status in the new incarnation I think. For me, that was always what it was anyway.

    But as we say, a Commander doesn't seem likely to undergo that training as he'd be less of a man on the ground.

    What I mean is that he does the same training as the SAS to be considered a 00. Not that he does it when he is in the Navy but that he does it with the Special Forces. In other words, the training it takes to be a 00 is the same sort of training as that of the British Special Forces - so the same psych training, evade capture, torture and interrogation, as well as the same physical and weapons training.

    So Bond is in the Navy as a Commander, then applies to Mi6 (or gets head hunted), and then has to undergo the same training as an SAS/SBS operative to be considered for 00 duty. (All as an offscreen back story, of course).

    I guess, as I say though; it's a weird step back into being a grunt (which Bond basically is) for someone who has risen into the senior ranks to become a Commander. They're not the guys who pull the triggers, they order missiles to be fired.
    Fleming's version of him taking a short cut to becoming a Commander whilst actually really working for the MoD makes it seem a bit more understandable.

    I guess we need someone with a bit of experience! I doubt there's many SBS guys on this site though :D

    British special forces are not grunts, though. They work in 4 man teams and are selected for their independence.

    Either way, in my version, he doesn't work for the special forces. He just does the training so that he is equipped to be able to do the variety of missions that come along during his work for Mi6 in the 00 section. Hence why the 00s and the SAS are a match during the exercise at the start if TLD.



    The SAS and their Royal Marine counterpart the SBS are most definitely not 'soldiers', or grunts (for heaven's sake...) - they are operatives.

    Those selected have, without fault, high IQ and EQ scores, are out-of-the-box thinking problem solvers, have insane endurance both cardiovascular (VO2-max) and muscle-endurance (lactic-acid tolerance) and are usually TYPE-A high achievers with a very high sense of duty and principle.
    They are often non-conformists, but work well in structured teams driven by mutual respect and goal-orientation, rather than traditional (infantry-based) subservience and hierarchy.

    IF 007 were a real person in the current time then there is no doubt he would have been put through the basic SAS or SBS requirements and probably have taken part in several real-world exercises before going solo.

    No-one’s saying he won’t have done the training, it’s about whether someone who has achieved the rank of Commander would be going for that sort of role.
    What rank do the operatives generally hold?

    Whichever rank they reached in the Army (SAS) or R.Marines (which is part of the Royal Navy) (read: SBS) after being admitted.

    SBS Command Structure

    Whilst technically part of the Naval Service (Royal Marines and Navy) order of battle (ORBAT), the SBS comes under the umbrella of United Kingdom Special Forces (UKSF), commanded by the Director Special Forces (DSF). UKSF is a directorate that combines several units under one command structure. The SBS, along with the British Army's 22nd Special Air Service (SAS) and the Special Reconnaissance Regiment (SRR) are the so-called 'teir one' special forces. Tier one special forces are supported by the Special Forces Support Group (SFSG), 18(UKSF) signals and the Joint Special Forces Aviation Wing (JSFAW).

    The Special Boat Service is usually commanded by a Lieutenant Colonel with a Major as second in command.

    Each SBS squadron is commanded by an Officer, usually a Royal Marines Major or Royal Navy Lieutenant Commander. Recent reports have stated that a lack of Officers from the Naval Service wishing to command SBS units has led to a number of SAS Officers being drafted in.

    SBS Troops are usually commanded by a Captain.

    https://www.eliteukforces.info/special-boat-service/organisation/

    Thanks, I read that page too. So a Commander is rather over-ranked to even command a squadron then, let alone being at operative level.
    Even if he's only doing the training to join SIS rather than actual UKSF it still seems a bit of a step-down for someone his rank. Unless we go with the version Fleming laid out and tailor it to a post-WW2 world.
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 1,318
    talos7 wrote: »
    …and even a comment high up states "the next Bond".

    Lol, that’s my comment; I posted it to see the reaction.

    Ha brilliant. There's a couple more as well, perhaps other members at mi6comm ;)
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,731
    @mtm and others - remember though, promotions happen far quicker during wartime, especially during WWII when fallen officers being replaced, acts of valor and important strategic accomplishments meant a young lieutenant could quite rapidly rise to become second in command of a frigate or senior officer of a military intelligence division (Lt Cdr or Commander, Royal Navy/US Navy).

    Anyhow, Bond was always portrayed as an idiosyncratic functional-psychopath by Ian Fleming (prob was one himself...), and wouldn't have cared for the cushy desk job that came with his naval rank anyway.
    I even think Fleming wrote as much regarding the desk job thing, in either the CR or MR novels, if I recall correctly...?
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    Univex wrote: »
    Thank you, @AceHole, old friend, for your very informative posts. Any chance EON would hire you as a consultant of sorts? They need one ;)

    They do need one, old buddy - but best they take someone who actually served in these elite units, rather than someone who only heard stories from an uncle :-)
    My dad's brother was in the (first R.Marines, then) SBS for part of his military career, back when the Brits were fighting subversive wars in Yemen (Port of Aden etc) in the late 60's....
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 16,416
    AceHole wrote: »
    @mtm and others - remember though, promotions happen far quicker during wartime, especially during WWII when fallen officers being replaced, acts of valor and important strategic accomplishments meant a young lieutenant could quite rapidly rise to become second in command of a frigate or senior officer of a military intelligence division (Lt Cdr or Commander, Royal Navy/US Navy).

    Yes, that's what I meant when I said 'go with the version Fleming laid out and tailor it to a post-WW2 world': really speaking it seems like Bond would never really have reached that rank outside of the war because it seems like he was working for the MoD before he attained Commander.
    A vaguely realistic version of Bond nowadays (and I know that's a kind of silly idea in itself! :) ) would either not be a Commander at all or have attained the rank whilst at SIS by some special circumstance or other as the book version appears to have (as you say, not least because of the war). The idea of someone working the normal route and attaining such a high rank before deciding they actually just want to be an assassin seems quite an odd one.
    His Casino Royale-era military record makes it sound fair enough I guess, I've no idea if it's realistic or not: that has him attain Commander status as he joins RNR Defence Intelligence Group (I assume that's what used to be DIS and is now just DI).
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