Octopussy is Moore's best performance???

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  • Posts: 1,146
    I think Brosnan was very impressive in Goldeneye, but the other pictures honestly had bad directors and mediocre to bad stories so his heritage suffered as a result. He was tough in GE, and too Moore in the others.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I don't know where that comes from.
    "the puns and suggestive dialogue during that period were far more juvenile and insulting (and pervasive) than anything we had gotten with Moore."
    This. If I need to explain why you're so wrong here, you won't get it anyway.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I simply can't take a Bond film where he dresses as a clown

    The comment of an idiot. The circus bomb defusing is without doubt the best bomb countdown in Bond and possibly the most tension filled climax to any Bond film. The clown costume only adds to this. Glen and Moore hit this scene out of the park and following on from Martin Grace's incredible stunt work this whole sequence is one of the best of the series.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    I simply can't take a Bond film where he dresses as a clown

    The comment of an idiot. The circus bomb defusing is without doubt the best bomb countdown in Bond and possibly the most tension filled climax to any Bond film. The clown costume only adds to this. Glen and Moore hit this scene out of the park and following on from Martin Grace's incredible stunt work this whole sequence is one of the best of the series.

    Well said that man.
    I don't understand the problem with Bond using a clown disguise...AT A CIRCUS!
    The bomb defusing scene in OP would rival Hitchcock for build up and tension. And Moore plays it brilliantly.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Benny wrote: »
    I simply can't take a Bond film where he dresses as a clown

    The comment of an idiot. The circus bomb defusing is without doubt the best bomb countdown in Bond and possibly the most tension filled climax to any Bond film. The clown costume only adds to this. Glen and Moore hit this scene out of the park and following on from Martin Grace's incredible stunt work this whole sequence is one of the best of the series.

    Well said that man.
    I don't understand the problem with Bond using a clown disguise...AT A CIRCUS!
    The bomb defusing scene in OP would rival Hitchcock for build up and tension. And Moore plays it brilliantly.

    Indeed. See my blog article here on the Flemingesque nature of that scene in Octopussy (1983):

    http://www.thebondologistblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/ian-flemings-second-uncompleted-short.html

    THE RELEVANT QUOTES FROM THE ARTICLE:


    "The reporter’s notes from Fleming’s notebook also revealed how Fleming had outlined prospective Bond works. Here are the plot outlines:



    “Bond, as a double agent, has to shoot his own assistant in order to keep his cover…”



    “A battle under Niagara Falls”



    “A masquerade ball in which the benign clown is the Russian killer and the crowd thinks that a real fight is part of the buffoonery.” (As Nick Kincaid notes in the article there are shades of the 1983 film OCTOPUSSY here, where Bond, dressed as a clown has to persuade the American General that there is a nuclear bomb in the cannon waiting to go off any second.)



    It is a wonderful piece of black tragic-comedy with clear Fleming roots. Consider, for instance, the scene in Fleming’s CASINO ROYALE where one of Le Chiffre’s Bulgar henchmen places his cane-gun against Bond’s spine and asks him to pull out of the high stakes game of baccarat:



    ‘Immediately he felt something hard press into the base of his spine, right into the cleft between his two buttocks on the padded chair.



    At the same time a thick voice speaking southern French said softly, urgently, just behind his right ear:



    ‘This is a gun, monsieur. It is absolutely silent. It can blow the base of your spine off without a sound. You will appear to have fainted. I shall be gone. Withdraw your bet before I count ten. If you call for help I shall fire.’



    The voice was confident. Bond believed it. These people had shown they would unhesitantly go to the limit. The thick walking-stick was explained. Bond knew the type of gun. The barrel a series of soft rubber baffles which absorbed the detonation, but which allowed the passage of the bullet. They had been invented and used in the war for assassinations. Bond had used them himself.

    […]

    ‘Trois’

    Bond looked over at Vesper and Felix Leiter. They were smiling and talking to each other. The fools. Where was Mathis? Where were those famous men of his?

    ‘Quatre’

    And the other spectators. This crowd of jabbering idiots. Couldn’t someone see what was happening? The chef de partie, the croupier, the huissier? (‘Casino Royale,’ Pan Books Ltd., London, 1965, pp. 87-8)



    Another plot outline with a connected circus/fairground theme is:



    “Fight in a fun fair with a man on the rollercoaster being shot at by another on the Big Wheel.”

  • Posts: 1,146
    I simply can't take a Bond film where he dresses as a clown

    The comment of an idiot. The circus bomb defusing is without doubt the best bomb countdown in Bond and possibly the most tension filled climax to any Bond film. The clown costume only adds to this. Glen and Moore hit this scene out of the park and following on from Martin Grace's incredible stunt work this whole sequence is one of the best of the series.

    In your opinion, and I did not need to insult you to make my point.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited October 2014 Posts: 18,281
    I simply can't take a Bond film where he dresses as a clown

    The comment of an idiot. The circus bomb defusing is without doubt the best bomb countdown in Bond and possibly the most tension filled climax to any Bond film. The clown costume only adds to this. Glen and Moore hit this scene out of the park and following on from Martin Grace's incredible stunt work this whole sequence is one of the best of the series.

    In your opinion, and I did not need to insult you to make my point.

    Fair enough, but what do you think of the extracts from my article that I have posted above in support of the Moore clown outfit bomb-defusing scene in Octopussy, @doubleohdad?
  • Posts: 1,146
    I read it over, it's well-written, and while there are circus allusions there, now where does it state that Bond dresses like a clown.

    No way you get Connery, Laz or Craig to do something like that.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    I read it over, it's well-written, and while there are circus allusions there, now where does it state that Bond dresses like a clown.

    No way you get Connery, Laz or Craig to do something like that.

    Not even this?

    “A masquerade ball in which the benign clown is the Russian killer and the crowd thinks that a real fight is part of the buffoonery.” (As Nick Kincaid notes in the article there are shades of the 1983 film OCTOPUSSY here, where Bond, dressed as a clown has to persuade the American General that there is a nuclear bomb in the cannon waiting to go off any second.)

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited October 2014 Posts: 17,801
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I've seen both many times and stand by the statement.
    You actually think the Tarzan yell (to pick a universally recognized POS gag) is less insulting than an underwater tie straightening or "Christmas comes once a year" type line??? :-??
  • Posts: 1,146
    Yes.

    The Tarzan thing was a joke, though not crazy about the tie gag either.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 7,507
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I've seen both many times and stand by the statement.
    You actually think the Tarzan yell (to pick a universally recognized POS gag) is less insulting than an underwater tie straightening or "Christmas comes once a year" type line??? :-??

    That's a fair point, but I still think Moore's one liners held a fairly consistent level throughout his tenure (MR might be the exception). Many of us agree that the jokes dropped in quality during the Brosnan era and that the sexual induendos became increasingly more childish. Not Borsnan's fault of course, but there you go...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Yes, stay on point. we're talking the quips and puns. I abhor the Tarzan yell, and have said so repeatedly.

    Sorry, I'm at sea... adrift...
  • Posts: 6,432
    Murdock wrote: »
    I believe Moore did wear a hair piece for AVTAK. In this picture his hair does appear to be thinning.
    Bond%20vs%20Bond.jpg

    Love that picture, two legends.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    I felt that Moore did his most serious portrayals of Bond in his first two, after that it was his Saintly version with some hard-edged bits thrown in. But it all culminated in Octopussy where as he had nothing further to prove, and gave us his best, most well-rounded performance. Still the lightness of TSWLM, but with a bite not seen before in such force in so many scenes.
    If TSWLM had had a Barry score, I might like it a wee bit better than OP just for that- as it is, OP is my idea of Moore's Bond at his best.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Yes, stay on point. we're talking the quips and puns. I abhor the Tarzan yell, and have said so repeatedly.

    They don't even bother to make a new version of it from Moore. It's just an old recording. I remember watching part of a 30s Tarzan film on TV a few months back and realised it was the EXACT same sound effect.

  • CatchingBulletsCatchingBullets facebook.com/catchingbullets
    Posts: 292
    Nothing wrong with Mr Moore does in OCTOPUSSY. An Autumnal Bond movie given an Autumnal Bond performance.
  • I think Moore's performances were very good in all of his films, so I wouldn't choose OP as better than the others, but he sure was great in that one.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I don't think Moore nailed it until Spy
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Getafix wrote: »
    I don't think Moore nailed it until Spy

    That seems to be the consensus - but he was a much harder-edged Bond in the first two so I admire those films for that too.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I always enjoy Rog, so not going to diss his performances but for me there's a touch of the Brosnans about his first two entries. You sense him feeling his way in. Not quite sure how to play it and not entirely making the part his own. The difference of course is that Rog went on to own the part whereas Brosnan if anything went backwards, never convincingly shedding the baggage or filling the boots.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Getafix wrote: »
    The difference of course is that Rog went on to own the part whereas Brosnan if anything went backwards, never convincingly shedding the baggage or filling the boots.
    Sorry, but TND is more broadly entertaining for me than any Moore flick, even OP. I don't mind the smooth gentleman thing at all, but Pierce was able to completely deliver in the action scenes to a degree that Roger just couldn't. Other than that, I find them quite similar actually.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    "Getafix wrote:
    I always enjoy Rog, so not going to diss his performances but for me there's a touch of the Brosnans about his first two entries.
    This phrase made me laugh. Thank you.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    there's a touch of the Brosnans about his first two entries

    How insulting.....Lol
  • Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    there's a touch of the Brosnans about his first two entries

    How insulting.....Lol

    I know - may be I went a bit far there. Sorry Sir Rog, no offence intended.

    To clarrify, I don't mean that Moore's performances in any way resemble Brosnans in a qualitative sense, but simply their is a degree to which Rog is feeling his way into the role still.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 11,425
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    The difference of course is that Rog went on to own the part whereas Brosnan if anything went backwards, never convincingly shedding the baggage or filling the boots.
    Sorry, but TND is more broadly entertaining for me than any Moore flick, even OP. I don't mind the smooth gentleman thing at all, but Pierce was able to completely deliver in the action scenes to a degree that Roger just couldn't. Other than that, I find them quite similar actually.

    Oh dear @chrisisall, I simply cannot agree. Spy wipes the floor with any Brosnan movie, as does OP. In my mind I don't really remember the Brosnan actions scenes or fights. Were any of them very memorable? Not for me any way. My memories of Brosnan are of the slightly smarmy and stilted dialogue, strange strutting and of course, the grunting and pain-facing. All memorable in their own way of course, but mostly signs of how Brosnan never really got a grip on who his Bond was. A sort of mid-management sales exec lost in a world of faux glamour and 'espionage'. The comic potential was huge, but never fully realised.

    But I have to admit, TND is the least bad of the Brosnan movies. When I first saw it I really felt it was a significant step up from GE. Brosnan seemed to have improved somewhat. Arnold could only be an improvement on Serra, and Wai Lin, if not exactly a classic Bond girl, at least brought a little bit of gravitas to the proceedings. The story is derivative but serviceable and the production design a touch more sophisticated than anything we'd seen for quite a long time. Generally speaking, after the major disappointment of GE, I really felt things were heading in a positive direction. And then came TWINE (yawn) and DAD (vomit) and the not a moment too soon relief of the sacking. A sad end to a sorry era.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2014 Posts: 23,883
    TND is very entertaining, I'll admit. It's Brosnan's TSWLM or YOLT so it could not be entertaining. However, it is not on a par with these other two movies in my opinion.

    It was his last good effort at Bond however.

    TWINE & DAD were complete garbage, from the title music (Garbage indeed) to the performances by nearly all concerned (Toby Stephen's sneer still hurts me to this day) to the pedestrian, very run-of the mill approach to the plotting. I'm very thankful that stain on the Bond era is over. Thank goodness Rosamund Pike did not suffer for being associated with that tripe (she was the only good thing in DAD).
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Hey mods, is this an Octopussy discussion or just yet ANOTHER Brosnan-Bash-Fest?? :-??
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Getting this back on track, OP is a great Moore performance and is one of his better Bonds.

    To repeat what I said earlier, I don't think he made a bad Bond flick (I even liked TMWTGG), except maybe AVTAK, but he was almost a senior citizen by then so he could be forgiven.
  • Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    Getting this back on track, OP is a great Moore performance and is one of his better Bonds.

    To repeat what I said earlier, I don't think he made a bad Bond flick (I even liked TMWTGG), except maybe AVTAK, but he was almost a senior citizen by then so he could be forgiven.

    AVTAK is flawed, but has some very enjoyable moments and scenes. Unfairly maligned, I think.
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