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To the horror of Mrs Tokoloshe I also kept it on when going out for a Chinese later that evening ;-)
Great stuff, @Tokoloshe!
Ernst Stavro Blofeld is also a good idea...
Are you perchance British, @jobo?
A British person who has never bothered to research the origins of Halloween, at a guess.
My thoughts exactly...
@0BradyM0Bondfanatic7
Nope, I'm certainly not British. ;)) What gave you that impression? My excellent English? :P
The European tradition was to honour the dead. It was in America it became a candygrab for kids.
And Halloween's humble origins is not the central point here. The main question is why its now a popular tradition around the world. And that's because of American's practicising it, and advertizing it. It was in America Halloween (in its modern form) became a big thing, and it would never have become a popular tradition throughout Europe if it wasn't for its exposure in American popular culture, leaving thee old tradition dead and buried as a consequeence (pardon the pun...).
I am fully avare of the old existing 'Souling' tradition, thank you! A tradition meant to give poor, starving people an opportunity to ask for cakes, sweets or money, and the rich a day to feel better about themselves I guess... However that had nothing to do with dressing up in silly costumes and threatening to do pranks or damaging property if you don't get candy. That tradition originated in America, and America only!
European traditions being 'Americanized' is no new thing. Sometimes its for the better, sometimes not. Trick or treating is certainly an example of the latter. Comaparing 'Souling' to 'Trick or Treating' is like comparing Casino Royale the novel to Die Another Day. Same loose origin, yet two completely different worlds.
I understand its important to avoid any responsibility foor Trick or treating. If I was American I would do the same. But it can't be helped that the penomenon is an American tradition. I'm so sorry...
Btw I find it very amusing that an american would lecture on the benifits of secularism, in a country where, for religius reasons, only some very few fortunate gays get to marry, and people still freak out if there president is not a good christian. Only very few European countries are as religiously conservative as the United States. And I have no idea why anyone would consider 'souling' a religously offensive tradition in need of changing for the sake of seculiarism...
At least there has been no Brosnan bashing. Yet.
I think you've misunderstood a lot of what I've said completely, and for the sake of not wasting any more of my time with this discussion, I'll finish my "argument" with a few brief points.
1.) I find it amusing that you hold Americans solely responsible for pranks/damage to property when that kind of mindless vandalism occurs all over the globe, especially this time of year (smashed pumpkins and all that). We don't have a monopoly on that kind of crime where only those acts occur on our soil and nowhere else in the world. It'd be daft to think that we are solely responsible.
2.) I understand the distinction between souling/guising and modern trick-or-treating, and only pointed out that the main concept influenced how things are done today. Obviously times have changed some of the purpose and tradition of the event, as views, economics and geographies have changed along with the way people do things all over the world.
3.) I in no way mean to defend my blessed America; getting blinded by any kind of patriotism is honestly impossible for me. I was simply making a point against another that I found to be a bit unwarranted and aggressive, and that held one nation solely responsible for something they found to be reprehensible.
4.) As it is no surprise to you, I am a very secular person and am a supporter of things like same-sex marriage and don't care about the religious views of our nation's presidential incumbent. My point here is that not all of my fellow countrymen and I fit your idea of an uber-religious, uber-conservative, uber-exlclusionist America. Generalization on such a lofty scale is a sure sign of a misinformed individual. I was not speaking on any benefits of secularism at all in my post, and simply stated that trick-or-treating in our nation is a very secular tradition through the prism of children's eyes, who don't think of any of the Celtic practices that predated the act of going door to door for sweets, as all they want is to have fun and get a sugar high off candy. I also have no idea how you thought I was calling souling offensive in the slightest, as I have nothing against it at all, and find it a fascinating and engaging part of world history. Did you seriously read my post, or just skim it?
Sorry for those that wanted this to be a fun Halloween thread, as I feel I helped lower it into a very sour place.
My goodness that is a well impressive costume! =D> :-bd
I hope you shared with him, @chrisisall! :P
You amuse me yet again, mister Brady. Talk about misunderstanding ;))
I never said I held Americans responsible for the damage or pranks done against anyone outside America, and I never 'generalized' anything. Where on earth did that come from? :-?? The only thing I said was that I hold Americans responsible for the tradition. The tradition. Its really not more complicated than that! And where do you get that elaborate frase 'solely responsibly' from? I have never written anything like that in any of my posts. If you feel it necessary to put words in my mouth or deliberately misunderstand me to make some kind of a point, then that's your problem!
When you use a lot of time to argue that 'trick or treating' is not an American tradition, well, obviously you get some response, as those claims are completely off guard. Regarding the origins of that tradition, it's nothing to argue about. Its American...
I suppose you can erase point 1, 2, 4 in your post. They are completely irrelevant, and don't add anything to this discussion...
It might be that you took my initial post too seriously. I wasn't as aggresive as I might have come across... I just had a need to let out some steam reagarding a tradition I find extremely stupid and annoying. Obviously I have no personal gripes with any of you, or any common Amercian, and I have no idea how it could interpreted that way either, to be honest...
And I aplogize for letting this get out of hand. I didn't mean to destroy the spirit of this thread, and the last sentence about 'America' was never really the point anyway. I just wanted to express my distaste for the tradition, but it came across as more agressive than it was meant to be. I'm sorry...
http://m.joke.co.uk/baron-samedi-halloween-costume~62841/
Me too! That would be alot of fun!
:-O