Superman: The Man of Tomorrow

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    It helps a little, but the issue of turning back time remains.
    It was a one time deal- it pushed him to his absolute limit to turn time back what, 5 minutes? Because Lois died. Because He couldn't save his Dad.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,818
    chrisisall wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    It helps a little, but the issue of turning back time remains.
    It was a one time deal- it pushed him to his absolute limit to turn time back what, 5 minutes? Because Lois died. Because He couldn't save his Dad.
    I also received it as a one time action not to be repeated.

    It really resonated to me for what Superman committed to specific to Lois Lane.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Jor-El’s voice booming “IT IS FORBIDDEN” implying that what Superman is doing is not only wrong but might lead to disastrous consequences is something SUPERMAN II really should have followed up. Lester shot A LOT of new material for II, so it’s kind of bizarre that nobody picked on that, especially since the decision to have Superman reverse time in the first film necessitated a brand new ending.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    It remains problematic in my opinion. Nothing in the entire film indicates that Superman has the ability to reverse time. It is suddenly thrown in the mix and we're just supposed to accept it. I want to, but I struggle with it at the same time.

    And as @MakeshiftPython explained, such a major event should at least have been considered in the next film.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    It remains problematic in my opinion. Nothing in the entire film indicates that Superman has the ability to reverse time. It is suddenly thrown in the mix and we're just supposed to accept it. I want to, but I struggle with it at the same time.

    And as @MakeshiftPython explained, such a major event should at least have been considered in the next film.
    Jor-El clearly states that he will be able to propel himself at 'almost limitless speeds'... if that isn't a hint at it I don't know what would be. ;)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    And he throws in that last line in the space pod before it crashes “it is forbidden for you to interfere with human history”. Doesn’t sound like a hint at time travel at first viewing, but then when you rewatch it and catch that line it makes sense. It’s a rather coy insert.

    But again, I put it on the sequels for not showing consequences. The whole point of it in the first film is that Superman loves Lois so much that he’s willing to break the laws of psychics just to get her back. It doesn’t even seem like he makes that decision to restore California, that just happens to be a byproduct of Superman’s selfish desires.

    In SUPERMAN II he was supposed to reverse time because the super villains had destroyed most of Earth in their world tour of bad will, while Superman was preoccupied with Lois in the Fortress. It was in that instance that Superman was putting the world ahead of Lois, and that he was going to sacrifice his entire time with her in order to restore the world. That’s another reason why it doesn’t work in Donner’s Cut because he never got to film any of Zod’s world rampage, so you never get a sense of how destructive they were. And because he didn’t film all the stuff for the time reversal, it just feels like it comes out of nowhere.

    The Donner footage should have always just been bonus content for a special edition DVD. There was never enough to try to make his cut work.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Yea,turning back time at Super speed is something you’d expect The Flash to be capable of,not Superman.

    That’s why I like the ending of Man Of Steel better.It was a tough decision for Supes to make and there were consequences to that action in BVS.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    there were consequences to that action in BVS.

    That was something I was really looking forward to with BvS. Sort of like how STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS was gonna address whether Kirk was promoted too fast, which was an ending from ST09 heavily debated among fans.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited July 2023 Posts: 25,178
    Superman the Movie is one of my favorite films, it is 45 years old and I love watching it. Many films from that era and before are beyond criticism for me when they are already exceptional movies.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited July 2023 Posts: 17,804
    Superman the Movie is one of my favorite films, it is 45 years old and I love watching it. Many films from that era and before are beyond criticism for me when they are already exceptional movies.

    Superman: The Movie is my all time favourite movie. Many others like the Apes movies, Logan's Run, Westworld, Star Wars, Blade Runner and Jones continue to freak me.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Superman the Movie is one of my favorite films, it is 45 years old and I love watching it. Many films from that era and before are beyond criticism for me when they are already exceptional movies.

    Superman: The Movie is my all time favourite movie. Many others like the Apes movies, Logan's Run, Westworld, Star Wars, Blade Runner and Jones continue to freak me.

    Well, as I explained, it's a great movie in my book. But far from the best. Tonally uneven. That second half just doesn't live up to the pure epicness of the first half. Still a whole lot better than anything I've seen in the entire MCU.

    Blade Runner, by the way, is my second favorite film of all time.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I actually like the film better once it goes to Metropolis, but that might be because of my fondness for screwball comedy.

    “There’s only one ‘p’ in ‘rapist’.”
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    I actually like the film better once it goes to Metropolis, but that might be because of my fondness for screwball comedy.

    “There’s only one ‘p’ in ‘rapist’.”

    And not to belabor a point, but in isolation, I like that second half too. 'Screwball comedy' is an apt description, by the way. My problem is that it doesn't belong in the same movie as the first half. Imagine if CR turned into MR halfway through the film. I love both films, but they have no business being in the same whole. They're just too tonally different. Perhaps I'm just too sensitive about that. ;-)

    I really don't mind a good comedy. The opening sequence of Superman III is one of the best comedy bits I've ever seen: I enjoy it every time. And then Richard Pryor comes along and... oh well, a good debate for another time. I simply wish STM could have stayed at that epic, almost biblical level it starts with.

    But I'm not going to die on this hill. I don't hate the second half and I certainly don't hate STM. It really is one of the best superhero films ever made. I just don't think of it as the very best of the bunch.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Superman the Movie is one of my favorite films, it is 45 years old and I love watching it. Many films from that era and before are beyond criticism for me when they are already exceptional movies.

    Superman: The Movie is my all time favourite movie. Many others like the Apes movies, Logan's Run, Westworld, Star Wars, Blade Runner and Jones continue to freak me.

    Well, as I explained, it's a great movie in my book. But far from the best. Tonally uneven. That second half just doesn't live up to the pure epicness of the first half. Still a whole lot better than anything I've seen in the entire MCU.

    Blade Runner, by the way, is my second favorite film of all time.

    Refresh me DD, what's your first? Alien? Austen Powers?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    chrisisall wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Superman the Movie is one of my favorite films, it is 45 years old and I love watching it. Many films from that era and before are beyond criticism for me when they are already exceptional movies.

    Superman: The Movie is my all time favourite movie. Many others like the Apes movies, Logan's Run, Westworld, Star Wars, Blade Runner and Jones continue to freak me.

    Well, as I explained, it's a great movie in my book. But far from the best. Tonally uneven. That second half just doesn't live up to the pure epicness of the first half. Still a whole lot better than anything I've seen in the entire MCU.

    Blade Runner, by the way, is my second favorite film of all time.

    Refresh me DD, what's your first? Alien? Austen Powers?

    Alien could have been the answer. Austin? Not so much. ;-)

    No, it's 2001: A Space Odyssey. That film has an almost indescribable effect on me. I typically give it six stars out of five, just to prove a point. ;-)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Superman the Movie is one of my favorite films, it is 45 years old and I love watching it. Many films from that era and before are beyond criticism for me when they are already exceptional movies.

    Superman: The Movie is my all time favourite movie. Many others like the Apes movies, Logan's Run, Westworld, Star Wars, Blade Runner and Jones continue to freak me.

    Well, as I explained, it's a great movie in my book. But far from the best. Tonally uneven. That second half just doesn't live up to the pure epicness of the first half. Still a whole lot better than anything I've seen in the entire MCU.

    Blade Runner, by the way, is my second favorite film of all time.

    Refresh me DD, what's your first? Alien? Austen Powers?

    Alien could have been the answer. Austin? Not so much. ;-)

    No, it's 2001: A Space Odyssey. That film has an almost indescribable effect on me. I typically give it six stars out of five, just to prove a point. ;-)

    It IS probably objectively the best SF film ever.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I think the tone of the first 45 minutes work for those 45 minutes best. Even with the hard cut to screwball comedy, you still get some of that grandiose filmmaking we got from the first 45 minutes. Like the long tracking shot in the Daily Planet where Clark is following Lois around the office like a puppy dog while she’s expressing excitement over being able to interview the President of the United States with hardball questions he’d rather dodge.

    Ultimately, I don’t want a Superman film that feels TOO self serious. That’s something Bryan Singer missed.

    I dunno if I would compare the tone with MR. British humor of that era seemed to be more about visual gags, which Lewis Gilbert’s Bonds, Richard Lester’s Supermans, Mike Hodges’ Flash Gordon go wild for. Donner’s humor is more verbal and he won’t let characters go without having a sparing contest, which is why Mankiewicz was perfect for the rewrites.

    The Mankiewicz Bonds are definitely more closer to Donner’s Superman when it comes to that verbal wit. Charles Gray’s Blofeld even feels like a precursor to Hackman’s Lex Luthor. Menace but also flamboyant. “If we destroyed Kansas the world may not hear about it for years.” But that’s directed by Guy Hamilton, who didn’t really care about giving Bond the kind of scope that Donner did for Supes.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    I think the tone of the first 45 minutes work for those 45 minutes best. Even with the hard cut to screwball comedy, you still get some of that grandiose filmmaking we got from the first 45 minutes. Like the long tracking shot in the Daily Planet where Clark is following Lois around the office like a puppy dog while she’s expressing excitement over being able to interview the President of the United States with hardball questions he’d rather dodge.

    Ultimately, I don’t want a Superman film that feels TOO self serious. That’s something Bryan Singer missed.

    I dunno if I would compare the tone with MR. British humor of that era seemed to be more about visual gags, which Lewis Gilbert’s Bonds, Richard Lester’s Supermans, Mike Hodges’ Flash Gordon go wild for. Donner’s humor is more verbal and he won’t let characters go without having a sparing contest, which is why Mankiewicz was perfect for the rewrites.

    The Mankiewicz Bonds are definitely more closer to Donner’s Superman when it comes to that verbal wit. Charles Gray’s Blofeld even feels like a precursor to Hackman’s Lex Luthor. Menace but also flamboyant. “If we destroyed Kansas the world may not hear about it for years.” But that’s directed by Guy Hamilton, who didn’t really care about giving Bond the kind of scope that Donner did for Supes.

    Wow, well thought out!!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
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  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited July 2023 Posts: 25,178
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Superman the Movie is one of my favorite films, it is 45 years old and I love watching it. Many films from that era and before are beyond criticism for me when they are already exceptional movies.

    Superman: The Movie is my all time favourite movie. Many others like the Apes movies, Logan's Run, Westworld, Star Wars, Blade Runner and Jones continue to freak me.

    I have a whole shelf dedicated to Christopher Reeve Superman, my movie room is full of Superman and Batman prints (and Bond) lol. The other films you mention I have them all, it was a great era for cinema.
  • Posts: 16,170
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Superman the Movie is one of my favorite films, it is 45 years old and I love watching it. Many films from that era and before are beyond criticism for me when they are already exceptional movies.

    Superman: The Movie is my all time favourite movie. Many others like the Apes movies, Logan's Run, Westworld, Star Wars, Blade Runner and Jones continue to freak me.

    This puts a smile on my face. :D
    SUPERMAN THE MOVIE is the film that ignited my love for cinema.
    I really need to upgrade and get a new copy. At the moment, I only have the 2000 DVD edition.
  • Posts: 12,474
    The 4K Reeve collection is definitely something I want to grab someday.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Superman the Movie is one of my favorite films, it is 45 years old and I love watching it. Many films from that era and before are beyond criticism for me when they are already exceptional movies.

    Superman: The Movie is my all time favourite movie. Many others like the Apes movies, Logan's Run, Westworld, Star Wars, Blade Runner and Jones continue to freak me.

    This puts a smile on my face. :D
    SUPERMAN THE MOVIE is the film that ignited my love for cinema.
    I really need to upgrade and get a new copy. At the moment, I only have the 2000 DVD edition.

    I got this one. 3 hours. The extra shots of Otis walking are a bit much, but lots of great other stuff in it! It's the only version I watch now! https://www.amazon.com/Superman-Movie-Extended-Special-Collection/dp/B075TDZV1P
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    chrisisall wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Superman the Movie is one of my favorite films, it is 45 years old and I love watching it. Many films from that era and before are beyond criticism for me when they are already exceptional movies.

    Superman: The Movie is my all time favourite movie. Many others like the Apes movies, Logan's Run, Westworld, Star Wars, Blade Runner and Jones continue to freak me.

    This puts a smile on my face. :D
    SUPERMAN THE MOVIE is the film that ignited my love for cinema.
    I really need to upgrade and get a new copy. At the moment, I only have the 2000 DVD edition.

    I got this one. 3 hours. The extra shots of Otis walking are a bit much, but lots of great other stuff in it! It's the only version I watch now! https://www.amazon.com/Superman-Movie-Extended-Special-Collection/dp/B075TDZV1P

    Me too. It's a great edition. But yes, Otis. I really don't like that character.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,428
    The Mankiewicz Bonds are definitely more closer to Donner’s Superman when it comes to that verbal wit. Charles Gray’s Blofeld even feels like a precursor to Hackman’s Lex Luthor. Menace but also flamboyant. “If we destroyed Kansas the world may not hear about it for years.” But that’s directed by Guy Hamilton, who didn’t really care about giving Bond the kind of scope that Donner did for Supes.

    That's a great observation. Also, I'm more increasingly of the mind that Goldfinger was a bit of a fluke for Hamilton, as I'm not sure any of his other films are terribly great and may have been better with other directors. Well, I like Funeral in Berlin, I'll give him that.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I like Otis as a foil for Luthor, but the filmmakers made the wise decision to leave him in prison. It would have felt tonally jarring to have him in similar scenes with the three villains.
  • Posts: 12,474
    This thread got me in the mood to put on the ‘78 movie soundtrack while doing some writing. I forgot just how wonderful it was.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    mtm wrote: »
    The Mankiewicz Bonds are definitely more closer to Donner’s Superman when it comes to that verbal wit. Charles Gray’s Blofeld even feels like a precursor to Hackman’s Lex Luthor. Menace but also flamboyant. “If we destroyed Kansas the world may not hear about it for years.” But that’s directed by Guy Hamilton, who didn’t really care about giving Bond the kind of scope that Donner did for Supes.

    That's a great observation. Also, I'm more increasingly of the mind that Goldfinger was a bit of a fluke for Hamilton, as I'm not sure any of his other films are terribly great and may have been better with other directors. Well, I like Funeral in Berlin, I'll give him that.
    Yes, when Hamilton did Goldfinger, he had a limited pattern to follow, much like Lester with Superman II. Hamilton unleashed got a bit silly, and Lester unleashed went daft.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    FoxRox wrote: »
    This thread got me in the mood to put on the ‘78 movie soundtrack while doing some writing. I forgot just how wonderful it was.

    That soundtrack is amazing. What Williams does with The Fortress Of Solitude scene is just incredible. Moves me to tears. I know that not everyone loves John Williams the way I do, but I doubt that many will disagree with the pivotal role he played in adding magic to this movie.
  • Posts: 12,474
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    This thread got me in the mood to put on the ‘78 movie soundtrack while doing some writing. I forgot just how wonderful it was.

    That soundtrack is amazing. What Williams does with The Fortress Of Solitude scene is just incredible. Moves me to tears. I know that not everyone loves John Williams the way I do, but I doubt that many will disagree with the pivotal role he played in adding magic to this movie.

    I definitely love John Williams the way you do! ;) but seriously, his scores have been emotionally stirring since my earliest years, and I've often found myself tearing up at several tracks of several scores. His action themes are fantastic, of course, but I'm always most into his songs when they reflect a sad mood, like the track for Jonathan Kent's death. You really feel it all through the music.
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