Spectre title song - Writing's on the Wall

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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    =D> good riddance.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    OK, let's try and get this thread back on track and focus on making Spectre the best Bond film yet. We can keep positivity and focus, when I tweeted Sam Smith he say he use positivity and mianly focus and potential to keep the weight loss regimen. So will there be a video for Writing on the Wall?

    What a load of utter bollocks, mate (:|
  • Posts: 1,314
    Id never thought of it as homophobic - i hate that word - but is there anything in the fact that people think its ok for a woman to sing it note for note and not for a man. Much of the criticism seems to be that sam sounds not "like a real man', too 'effeminate', 'like a baby' or words to that effect. Meaning it unsuitable for a man to sing like that. When you look at it, that is pretty prejudiced.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    The strings in the song are very Bondian. The singing is excellent. My only issue is with some of the lyrics ("I want to feel love" etc). Bonds emotion is mainly internal and he keeps such thoughts under 'wraps'. The character wouldn't wine and mince around depressed! This was acceptable in the novel YOLT mind, as Tracy had just been murdered. I'll wait to see how it fits into the film before I fully judge though.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Id never thought of it as homophobic - i hate that word - but is there anything in the fact that people think its ok for a woman to sing it note for note and not for a man. Much of the criticism seems to be that sam sounds not "like a real man', too 'effeminate', 'like a baby' or words to that effect. Meaning it unsuitable for a man to sing like that. When you look at it, that is pretty prejudiced.

    No, that is some but not most of the criticism that I have heard.

    From my point of view, I've always preferred (on average) sappy soul bearing songs (which I feel this is) to be sung by a woman. Slower songs as well. I have always preferred faster, more uptempo songs sung by men. There are exceptions of course (like some early fast Whitney Houston, Madonna and Britney Spears etc. and some slow George Michael etc). Personally, I don't hear 'soul' in Smith's voice in WOTW like George Michael could bring for example. Even Jackson did it better (imho) with the compared 'Earth Song'.

    It comes down to voice tone, inflexion & intonation and how it sounds to one's ear, which is deeply personal. It has nothing to do with homophobia. That is entirely irrelevant to my thinking. Making the connection between that and dislike of gays is completely incorrect imho. It is a coincidence. There is correlation but not causation.

    One could say I'm not properly in touch with my feminine/gentler side if one wants (and I have been accused of that on occasion), but not homophobia and prejudice.

    Of course, I hope someone at EON thought this through before selecting Smith and before allowing him to sing like this (basically 'opening up' while inhabiting Bond's character). If they did, then it's all ok (because there was a method to their thinking). If not, then perhaps they need me on their staff for the next one to prevent further unintended mishaps/controversy.

    It is my understanding (based on an interview that I read from Smith) that he had to remove some lyrics that he had originally inserted and which Mendes himself felt were way too wimpy for Bond.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 2,598
    The controversy on this thread and where this conversation has ventured concerning a mere Bond song absolutely amazes me. Yes, Smith sings high. Michael Jackson sang high and at least one of the Bee Gees sings high! What on earth is the big deal !?
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 2,598
    To delete.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Id never thought of it as homophobic - i hate that word - but is there anything in the fact that people think its ok for a woman to sing it note for note and not for a man. Much of the criticism seems to be that sam sounds not "like a real man', too 'effeminate', 'like a baby' or words to that effect. Meaning it unsuitable for a man to sing like that. When you look at it, that is pretty prejudiced.

    It's more than its unsuitting for Bond, not a generic man.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Bounine wrote: »
    The controversy on this thread and where this conversation has ventured concerning a mere Bond song absolutely amazes me. Yes, Smith sings high. Michael Jackson sung high and at least one of the Bee Gees sing high! What on earth i

    Just to clarify, just from my point of view it has nothing to do with singing 'high'.

    I love the Bee Gees and MJ has done some absolutely fantastic songs in his time (brilliant in fact). Even JT, Jamiroquai, Terence Trent D'arby, Prince and Sheeran have some great 'high voice' songs (Don't, Sing, Rock Your Body, Kiss, Virtual Insanity, Wishing Well).

    From my perspective, it just comes down to the song not being that good. I think many people feel that way but I don't think they feel that way purely on account of the falsetto. It's more the way the falsetto segues in and whether it feels integrated. To me it feels tacked on to showcase Smith's vocal range, but not impressive. Just my view.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    bondjames wrote: »
    Bounine wrote: »
    The controversy on this thread and where this conversation has ventured concerning a mere Bond song absolutely amazes me. Yes, Smith sings high. Michael Jackson sung high and at least one of the Bee Gees sing high! What on earth i

    Just to clarify, just from my point of view it has nothing to do with singing 'high'.

    I love the Bee Gees and MJ has done some absolutely fantastic songs in his time (brilliant in fact). Even JT, Jamiroquai, Terence Trent D'arby, Prince and Sheeran have some great 'high voice' songs (Don't, Sing, Rock Your Body, Kiss, Virtual Insanity, Wishing Well).

    From my perspective, it just comes down to the song not being that good. I think many people feel that way but I don't think they feel that way purely on account of the falsetto. It's more the way the falsetto segues in and whether it feels integrated. To me it feels tacked on to showcase Smith's vocal range, but not impressive. Just my view.

    You are one of the few people that actually give valid reasons why you don't like the song too much.

    There are good reviews of the song out there, for instance in the latest Rolling Stone issue.

    Twitter/Facebook and the lot dwell itself in primitive homophobic comments, that fact cannot be ignored.

    It just worries me to see how people react to a simple song like it was some kind of religous war.
  • Posts: 4,603
    The truly great singers can turn their talents to a range of emotions and still not "over sing" : George Michael - From Club Tropicana to Different Corner. Frank Sinatra - Wee Small Hours to Bim Bam Baby. Freddy Mercury - Who Wants to Live Forever to One Vision. The transience of modern pop means that stars come and go much quicker and there are far fewer "giants" to call upon . SS either does not have the range or has not had the chance to prove it but, no matter how hard I try, I just cant place him in the first division or premier league of singers.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    patb wrote: »
    The truly great singers can turn their talents to a range of emotions and still not "over sing" : George Michael - From Club Tropicana to Different Corner. Frank Sinatra - Wee Small Hours to Bim Bam Baby. Freddy Mercury - Who Wants to Live Forever to One Vision. The transience of modern pop means that stars come and go much quicker and there are far fewer "giants" to call upon . SS either does not have the range or has not had the chance to prove it but, no matter how hard I try, I just cant place him in the first division or premier league of singers.

    Sam has released one album and is still a newcomer, who knows in a decade he may be an internationally accomplished singer with 20 grammies at his hand.
  • TuxedoTuxedo Europe
    Posts: 259
    bondjames wrote: »
    Bounine wrote: »
    The controversy on this thread and where this conversation has ventured concerning a mere Bond song absolutely amazes me. Yes, Smith sings high. Michael Jackson sung high and at least one of the Bee Gees sing high! What on earth i

    Just to clarify, just from my point of view it has nothing to do with singing 'high'.

    I love the Bee Gees and MJ has done some absolutely fantastic songs in his time (brilliant in fact). Even JT, Jamiroquai, Terence Trent D'arby, Prince and Sheeran have some great 'high voice' songs (Don't, Sing, Rock Your Body, Kiss, Virtual Insanity, Wishing Well).

    From my perspective, it just comes down to the song not being that good. I think many people feel that way but I don't think they feel that way purely on account of the falsetto. It's more the way the falsetto segues in and whether it feels integrated. To me it feels tacked on to showcase Smith's vocal range, but not impressive. Just my view.

    I heard a few cover versions sung by female and quite liked the song for itself. But I still don't like how Sam Smith's falsetto is mixed in. Somebody said it would sound to him like a demo and that comes close to what I feel. I agree with you that the falsetto vocals don't feel integrated. Maybe this is only the air play version for selling a Sam Smith song and we get a different mix for the title sequence.
  • Posts: 4,603
    yes, as I said, he has not had the chance, but the fact that such a massive brand as Bond is forced to choose someone who has not even got passed the "difficult second album" stage shows what little choice they have when in comes to great vocals within contempory pop. There is an opinion out there (and I hold it) that pop is steadily dying and, sometimes, there are clear references to this (Lionel Ritchie was the most popular act at Glastonbury this year for example and who do you get to open,close the 2012 Olympics?) but, I digress
  • pjtpjt
    edited October 2015 Posts: 18
    MrEon wrote: »
    A lot of negative vibes here! The song fits the film remember, the feel, the emotion, the whole story of whats about to unfold in front of you in the cinema!
    The song gives you a huge insight into whats going to happen in this spectacular film, with Bond, the love he feels and the sacrifice his going to take for that love.

    I so hope so it doesn't. That would mean Bond lying on his red satin heart shaped bed in fetal position gorging down ice cream from a huge bucket.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Tuxedo wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Bounine wrote: »
    The controversy on this thread and where this conversation has ventured concerning a mere Bond song absolutely amazes me. Yes, Smith sings high. Michael Jackson sung high and at least one of the Bee Gees sing high! What on earth i

    Just to clarify, just from my point of view it has nothing to do with singing 'high'.

    I love the Bee Gees and MJ has done some absolutely fantastic songs in his time (brilliant in fact). Even JT, Jamiroquai, Terence Trent D'arby, Prince and Sheeran have some great 'high voice' songs (Don't, Sing, Rock Your Body, Kiss, Virtual Insanity, Wishing Well).

    From my perspective, it just comes down to the song not being that good. I think many people feel that way but I don't think they feel that way purely on account of the falsetto. It's more the way the falsetto segues in and whether it feels integrated. To me it feels tacked on to showcase Smith's vocal range, but not impressive. Just my view.

    I heard a few cover versions sung by female and quite liked the song for itself. But I still don't like how Sam Smith's falsetto is mixed in. Somebody said it would sound to him like a demo and that comes close to what I feel. I agree with you that the falsetto vocals don't feel integrated. Maybe this is only the air play version for selling a Sam Smith song and we get a different mix for the title sequence.

    This makes a lot of sense to me. Just feels like it needed more work, more takes, more production. I don't have an issue with Sam Smith's voice but the fact that people are already producing superior cover versions is an indication that something is not quite right with Sam's version.
  • pjtpjt
    Posts: 18
    So I've listened to the Sofia Karlberg cover, and the violin cover, and to my utter surprise it made the song totally listenable. Somewhere in the same category as DAD and AWTD, which is not great, but at least I don't want to push red hot knitting needles through my ears into my brain just to make it stop.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 11,425
    I don't remember hearing a cover of Skyfall and thinking it was better than Adele's version, but this time round it feels like other people are giving a better interpretation than the chosen artist.

    It would have been cool if Sam had written it and then said, "actually, this needs someone else to sing it". Bigger, more established stars might have done just that.

    I've heard good/better covers of other Bond songs as well. I like Natasha Atlas's cover of FRWL.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    pjt wrote: »
    So I've listened to the Sofia Karlberg cover, and the violin cover, and to my utter surprise it made the song totally listenable. Somewhere in the same category as DAD and AWTD, which is not great, but at least I don't want to push red hot knitting needles through my ears into my brain just to make it stop.

    This is exactly how I feel! The knitting needles through my ears I mean. How about a mariachi uptempo cover of this song...

    SPECTRE-Day-of-the-Dead-Concept-SPECTRE_1200px-1000x453.jpg
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 164
    To me it seems like many of those who defend the song try to make it look as if people who don't like it don't like it for homophobic reasons. I haven't read the entire thread, but I remember a discussion that took place in this thread before Sam Smith was announced and many people were nominating George Michael as someone who could've done a Bond theme. So I really don't think this is about Sam Smith's sexuality. It really is about the song or at the very best, about Sam Smith's awful performance - they did use the demo. To me that looks a bit superficial for a project at this scale with this kind of budget.

    The truth is there are only a few bars in the song that are Bondian. If most of you would've heard the song without the strings and horn section, not knowing that it's the new Bond theme, you would've made no association with Bond. The "I've been here before but always hit the floor" part that should hint at Vesper is really generic and doesn't really give it away.

    As of those who say "let's focus on making this Bond film the best it can be", let's be serious here, we have no power over what the film will be and the theme song part is ruined for most of us. At the end of the day this is a forum and it's meant for people to express their opinions. We don't come here to pretend we like things we don't just to seem politically correct.



  • RC7RC7
    edited October 2015 Posts: 10,512
    To me it seems like many of those who defend the song try to make it look as if people who don't like it don't like it for homophobic reasons.

    I'll buy you a pint if you can provide evidence of this with quotes.

    People have raised the point that 'some' people, a large proportion of whom are not on this board have used their dislike of the song to have a pop at the bloke's sexuality. If you feel you need to defend them, that's up to you.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I don't know Sam Smith, he could be a nice guy or a complete bar steward.
    As far as I'm concerned his sex life is his own business, I like the song,like
    That he said it was an honour to be given the chance to do it, by putting his
    name to it, he's given Spectre a hit song and hundreds of thousands pounds
    worth Of publicity. I hope he knows that some fans, love his lyrics, find them
    very poignant, the fact that so many of his " Haters" like it when sung by others
    must help to prove it's a good song.
    All I can say is that as a Bond fan for 40 years or so, I think he did what was
    asked of him. The producers knew his style and voice, so it was obviously
    What they wanted.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    DrGorner wrote: »
    I don't know Sam Smith, he could be a nice guy or a complete bar steward.
    As far as I'm concerned his sex life is his own business, I like the song,like
    That he said it was an honour to be given the chance to do it, by putting his
    name to it, he's given Spectre a hit song and hundreds of thousands pounds
    worth Of publicity. I hope he knows that some fans, love his lyrics, find them
    very poignant, the fact that so many of his " Haters" like it when sung by others
    must help to prove it's a good song.
    All I can say is that as a Bond fan for 40 years or so, I think he did what was
    asked of him. The producers knew his style and voice, so it was obviously
    What they wanted.

    Well said, Doctor.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 164
    @RC7 I'm not trying to defend anyone. As I said, I haven't read the thread closely, so I'm sorry if I missunderstood. But as I was superficially going through the pages, the words "sexuality" and "homophobic" kept popping up and seem to be pregnant themes. I was just trying to get that out of the way, as I don't see what that has to do with the song. If anything, I'm "on your side" so to speak.

    Even though I still don't like the song and consider it to be one of the worst in history - and I don't care how much it sells or if it's topping the charts whatsoever.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    His sexuality is entirely irrelevant to most people's thoughts on this song - at least on this thread.

    It may be relevant to a number of people on other blogs/sites, I don't know and haven't bothered to look. If it has caused spreading negative vibes among those on twitter/Facebook and the like (and it may have, because the subject of homophobia keeps coming up on this thread for some reason) then that's entirely unacceptable, but it's not unexpected, at least not in my view.

    From our perspective here, it's entirely extraneous I think.
  • Posts: 12,526
    I am just curious to see the video, as to see whether their may be any film footage contained within it?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Uh? ^^^ lol
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    i swear to God if that's true...
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    i swear to God if that's true...
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Please, may someone ban all these f****** bastards spoiling the movie!
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