SPECTRE Leaks Discussion (allowed on ONLY this thread) MAJOR PLOTLINE SPOILERS!

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  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    Regarding the future Bond films i am not even a bit concerned.
    If there is a series that has proven to be able to reboot itself always with great success is JB agent 007!
    Personnally, i would like a return to a more light approach, more focused on the mission (one totally independent per film) still with some references to the movies of the past, from DN to SP (but nothing that much dramatic nor im terms of Bond personal past).
    I think that the Craig 4 films will endure on that end, so now (after SP) give us just plain escapist entertainement (and although i think Daniel Craig is a superb actor, i would welcome a change of actor playing JB)!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    aaron819 wrote: »
    Do you think that the lair in Morocco will be somewhere isolated in the dessert or somewhere more central to the city
    there will be a scene in a hotel in tangier but the main events occur in the middle of the desert (the train scene and the villains lair)

    I once stayed in a hotel in Tangiers. Beautiful building.
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    aaron819 wrote: »
    Do you think that the lair in Morocco will be somewhere isolated in the dessert or somewhere more central to the city
    there will be a scene in a hotel in tangier but the main events occur in the middle of the desert (the train scene and the villains lair)

    I once stayed in a hotel in Tangiers. Beautiful building.

    Unfortunattely i have never been in Morocco.
    Is Tangier more modern and "tiddy" or very old fashioned with some poverty here and there?
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    I think we should discuss everything in this thread with Spoiler tags.
    I think we just got a "reminder" in the other thread! My bad!
  • Posts: 260
    I think we should discuss everything in this thread with Spoiler tags.
    I think we just got a "reminder" in the other thread! My bad!

    Please no, I can only read like 20% of the conversation now!
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,622
    I think we should discuss everything in this thread with Spoiler tags.
    I think we just got a "reminder" in the other thread! My bad!
    It doesn't matter what we think. The instructions from @dimi are quite clear.
    We don't need spoiler tags in this thread.
    People are only using them out of habit.
    I am using them because I said I would until say Monday, to allow for others to wean themselves off the thread, which shouldn't be that hard.
    Here's why. I will use the Daniel Craig Appreciation Thread as an example.
    It tells me there are still over 500 unread messages for me to look at there, but I haven't visited because I have no actual interest in what is being discussed there.
    I am not even curious.
    But if someone comes here, it means they do actually have interest. They are curious, and thus they will learn other's thoughts on the leaks, which is just a shooting outline anyway.
    The thread title is clear. Anyone that comes here, whether they admit or not is curious.
    The truly uncurious are not going to visit at all, just like I don't even open the DC appreciation thread.
    Its not that hard. I also don't go to Survivor TV series spoiler threads, because that show is in fact a contest, and I don't want to know the results of the contest. I know if I open those threads, I will learn about results of the contest, because everything about that show does get leaked, especially who gets elminated each week. You can even map out the whole show in advance, if you hang around those spoiler threads, I did it one season. Now I choose not to. Its not even discipline. I genuinely don't want to know.
    Therefore I don't open them at all, because desire to not know is genuine. Simple.
    Therefore I surmise, anyone that comes here is curious about the leaks. They are not serious about not-knowing.
    Therefore we don't need spoiler tags, because those that truly don't want to be spoiled won't come here, just as I don't open Survivor TV series spoiler threads.
    It's a non-issue.
    Those that use the tags are just choosing too. And that's not what I "think"
    Those are the instructions from @dimi.

    @suive
    I don't what you've actually seen, but is it safe to say that Bunt is not in the SP final draft at all, in your opinion of course.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    aaron819 wrote: »
    Do you think that the lair in Morocco will be somewhere isolated in the dessert or somewhere more central to the city
    there will be a scene in a hotel in tangier but the main events occur in the middle of the desert (the train scene and the villains lair)

    I once stayed in a hotel in Tangiers. Beautiful building.

    Unfortunattely i have never been in Morocco.
    Is Tangier more modern and "tiddy" or very old fashioned with some poverty here and there?

    It is old. Casablanca is more modern, like Europe.
  • timmer wrote: »
    @suive may know better about
    the fate of Bunt in SP
    . He seems to have the best handle on SP plot details.

    Easy to answer : in the early scripts,
    Irma dies in the finale, the big action scene in the crumbling building, which continues with Bond chasing Blofeld... and killing him. In the two available scripts, he kills him in two different manners : by a shot to the head, or by strangling him. There is a Logan Skyfallesque dialog in each case : Blofeld last words to Bond are "Brother". Remember the fans laughing at the Silva/Bond brother theory, in the early scripts, it was "in your face" in SPECTRE :)

    This is amusing because:
    Exchange in November episode of Hawaii Five-0

    (Wo Fat and McGarrett, after exhausting fight are laying on the ground, each with a gun drawn on the other.)

    WO FAT: Are you going to kill me, Brother?

    MCGARRETT: You're not my brother.

    BLAM! Although we don't immediately see who got shot.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 2,015
    timmer wrote: »
    @suive
    I don't what you've actually seen, but is it safe to say that Bunt is not in the SP final draft at all, in your opinion of course.

    For the final draft, if it exists, everyone's guess is as good as the others'. Since the early scripts have changed a lot, since it is about some scenes that Sony asked to be cut or shortened, I suppose it's safe to say these elements won't come back in the script, but who knows ?

  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,622
    timmer wrote: »
    @suive
    I don't what you've actually seen, but is it safe to say that Bunt is not in the SP final draft at all, in your opinion of course.

    For the final draft, if it exists, everyone's guess is as good as the others'. Since the early scripts have changed a lot, since it is about some scenes that Sony asked to be cut or shortened, I suppose it's safe to say these elements won't come back in the script, but who knows ?

    Yes, who knows exactly, the Fraulein may yet appear!
    what I really like about these leaks, aside from the unfortunate circunatances that caused them, is that as new photos and videos become available, we can match them up with the outline as we know it. Makes the whole film-shoot, fan-monitoring process so much more fun.
    Maybe in future films, if we were to join a super-secret hardcore fan club, Eon could provide members with handy shooting outlines, so we can follow along properly and participate in the filmmaking process. We are all planning on seeing the film about 20x each anyway, plus buy the blu-ray or digital download. Our $$ are already in the bank.
    No one else cares anyway. I tried to spark up a conversation about the new Bond film, at a seasonal Christmas party I was attending. No-one had more than a passing interest. Could have handed out copies of the script and they all would have got tossed or filed, never to be read.
    I can relate. If someone pointed me towards a leaked script of the new Batman-Superman film, I wouldn't even look at it. Too much work, plus I don't care...but I will see the film a couple of times in cinema, and probably buy the blu-ray too.....but reading a script or even an outline holds no interest. Just too much work.
    But with Bond, I am hardcore invested. Not with Superman-Batman. Just a fan that enjoys the movies, the old TV series, and maybe the odd comic book, back in the day.
  • Yes, it's IMO a bit like the "everything is in the trailer" effect. Many movie fans are bothered to know "too much" about movies from watching the teaser trailer, the trailer #1, the trailer #2, and the exclusive excerpt #1... But the goal is to reach the mass audience who may see a bit of one the four videos !

    Trailers nowadays look like they tell you 2/3rd of the movie in hope you'll go and see the final 3rd in theather. Oh, wait, this is exactly what we have with the available scripts that leaked before they changed the 3rd act :)
  • Posts: 3,164
    Am I (and people like thelivingroyale) the only ones supporting the Craig era being a Nolan-style closed series a la TDK trilogy take on Bond?
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 2,015
    I'd say that first there's CR, and then with QoS they tried to make connections to this movie who's still the best Craig one IMO. Then there was SF, a bit independent too. And now with SPECTRE, they try to make connections with the other 3.

    With Nolan, at least he had a progression in mind in his trilogy. It's far more coherent. You have Batman going from rookie to expert to broken man to expert again a bit like Bond, but it feels less incoherent, IMO.

    In the early script of SPECTRE, you even had a reference that links to "CR's Bond", something that was part of the third act, and then it may change in the final movie :
    Bond was very good at poker even as a kid, he would play with Blofeld's father a lot, and Blofeld was jealous of him because of that - Blofeld talk at length about a bluff that Bond did to him when they were kids, and Bond claims he does not remember anything to make him angry - and then far later he admits he remembers it just before killing Blofeld. Bond's poker abilities become almost the core of the Blofeld/Bond relationship in the dialog !
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 3,164
    I'd say that first there's CR, and then with QoS they tried to make connections to this movie who's still the best Craig one IMO. Then there was SF, a bit independent too. And now with SPECTRE, they try to make connections with the other 3.

    With Nolan, at least he had a progression in mind in his trilogy. It's far more coherent.

    In the early script of SPECTRE, you even had a reference that links to CR, something that was part of the third act, and then it may change in the final movie :
    Bond was very good at poker even as a kid, he would play with Blofeld's father a lot, and Blofeld was jealous about him because of that - Blofeld talk at length about a bluff that Bond did to him when they were kids, and Bond claims he does not remember anything to make him angry

    Agreed, but still I mean in terms of these 4 films being a single arc for Bond that takes a deeper character look too. Funnily enough Nolan didn't want to make TDKR, but he did in the end and brought everything full circle which I think what SPECTRE tries to do here too.

    Actually
    that's in the December 1 version that's also in the leak, this time instead of just being a monologue from Oberhauser, they actually play a game of Hold'em too, and it ends quite differently (see the outline)
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 2,015
    But here it feels a bit as if they were making Back to The Future IV, to "really tighten" all the loose ends of the first three, and that in IV we'll learn that Doc is actually the father of both Marty and Biff :) Don't forget that in the original Logan script
    M was a traitor - this is a massive blow to the Bond canon... Mendes is reported to have been very worried they had to change the script so late in the development because of Fiennes' refusal to play a bad guy
  • Posts: 3,333
    Ok, I'm a bit late to the party, but I'm not sure whether I like what I've been reading with regards to the leaked script. Yes, I understand that its not a final script but nevertheless it sounds like to me that the story is going to be another emotional journey rather than Bond on a mission. I was hoping that the series would get back to its origins and present us with a Bond reminiscent of Connery and Lazenby's take, which are both the best renditions so far. Craig offered up so much potential with CR, and to a lesser extent QoS, but I feel the current series is no longer as captivating as the originals. Yes, everything changes, but I'm getting slightly bored with the rewritten heritage and the modern take. As for SPECTRE, I won't judge the film until I've seen it, but the signs are not looking too good for me right now.
  • aaron819aaron819 Switzerland
    Posts: 1,208
    Do you think that the chase in Mexico will be something like the chase in Sienna in QoS
  • Posts: 2,107
    I am on a public computer and I don't have the time to browse through all the history so I have to ask - Tanner a traitor? Please tell me it is not so. Worst thing ever if true.
  • SharkBait wrote: »
    I am on a public computer and I don't have the time to browse through all the history so I have to ask - Tanner a traitor? Please tell me it is not so. Worst thing ever if true.

    No, not a traitor.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    But it was the original plan. God, I hope Logan doesn't come anywhere near the Bond movies ever again.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    aaron819 wrote: »
    Do you think that the chase in Mexico will be something like the chase in Sienna in QoS

    It should be at least twice as long and absent of all that terrible shakey cam/quick cut editing rubbish. The QoS PTS would have been a top 5 PTS if it weren't for the horrible camera and editing.
  • aaron819 wrote: »
    Do you think that the lair in Morocco will be somewhere isolated in the dessert or somewhere more central to the city
    there will be a scene in a hotel in tangier but the main events occur in the middle of the desert (the train scene and the villains lair)

    I once stayed in a hotel in Tangiers. Beautiful building.

    Unfortunattely i have never been in Morocco.
    Is Tangier more modern and "tiddy" or very old fashioned with some poverty here and there?

    I smell someone wanting to go to Morocco... Haha. Ditto!
  • antovolk wrote: »
    Am I (and people like thelivingroyale) the only ones supporting the Craig era being a Nolan-style closed series a la TDK trilogy take on Bond?

    I could be talked into it. By rebooting in 2006, you've already separated yourself from the first 20 films. By having a definite ending, a la The Dark Knight Rises, you separate yourself from what follows. Bond Actor 7 would be to Craig what Ben Affleck is to Christian Bale. You'd also truly implement Michael G. Wilson's 1995 comment at the New York Bond convention about how Bond is "a series of series" of films.
  • I am not a fan of the idea as I'd like to see Fienees, Harris, etc. continue after Craig leaves.
  • aaron819aaron819 Switzerland
    Posts: 1,208
    Do you think Tanner should be the traitor, rather than C
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,622
    antovolk wrote: »
    Am I (and people like thelivingroyale) the only ones supporting the Craig era being a Nolan-style closed series a la TDK trilogy take on Bond?

    I could be talked into it. By rebooting in 2006, you've already separated yourself from the first 20 films. By having a definite ending, a la The Dark Knight Rises, you separate yourself from what follows. Bond Actor 7 would be to Craig what Ben Affleck is to Christian Bale. You'd also truly implement Michael G. Wilson's 1995 comment at the New York Bond convention about how Bond is "a series of series" of films.

    I think the idea would work, but I don't think there is a chance in heck of it happening.
    SP may tie-up the story arc started with CR with a nice little bow ( actually as far as I'm concerned it was already tied up with the end of QoS)
    But the story writers in their wisdom, have decided that Spectre will be revealed as the power behind, the events of not only CR, QoS but also SF, which isn't so bad as it does help evolve the Quantum story and transition to Spectre as the pre-eminent international big bad.

    But complicating things of course, is the personal connection between Bond and Oberhauser.
    It does seem the re-writes have downplayed this angle, so that it doesn't take over the whole narrative, but we really don't know without access to dialogue.

    To answer the original question; in the original drafts, we have all the Oberhauser daddy issues and James as bro...vomit vomit vomit, with Bond ultimately killing Oberhauser and bringing the whole sorry 4-film mess to a close.
    That scenario, as awful as it is, does work as a closed loop for Craig's Bond, and then good riddance, if that's what they were actually planning on doing.
    Please do a soft relaunch with new actor and pretend it never happened.

    However, it does seem that SP will finish by teasing a new beginning, foreshadowing the rise of one ESB, as head of a rejuvenated Spectre. The Bond-Oberhauser relationship does not seem as personal, so I'm not sure there is any closure to be achieved there, but again without access to dialogue, its hard to know.
    ie is Oberhauser still revealed to have had personal vendetta against Bond dating back to CR.
    If this angle is overplayed I will vomit, because it's entirely contrived, and cooked up well after the fact, not to mention uninteresting in the extreme.
    If Blofeld though, is just stand-in for Fleming's Dexter Smythe role, with added twist of killing his father, but no vendetta against Bond motivating his creation of Spectre, then that is more palatable.

    But either way, there is really no reason Craig can't come back for B25, which I am 100% he will.

    ===Questions.

    1. This one I have already raised. How far do we think the new screen treatment will go in playing up an Oberhauser vendetta against Bond angle?

    2. What is the actual Spectre threat to the world in this film, other than destroying Mi6 and the 00 section via the machinations of Andrew Scott as C?

    3.What are to we to make of the Bond-Swann relationship?
    Is she truly to be revealed as yet another great love, or are we talking more Paris Carver, Kara Milovy territory from the films, or possibly Tiffany Case from the novels?

  • timmer wrote: »
    It does seem the re-writes have downplayed this angle, so that it doesn't take over the whole narrative, but we really don't know without access to dialogue.

    Well :
    In the leak, there is three different scripts with dialogs, and all have a different approach to the ending. So I think they may be still toying with it even though the shooting has begun. It should be pointed out that "Ernst" appears in these scripts, but "Blofeld".. less so !

    The relationship between Bond and Whathisname is still very personal in every script, though. The most "fan-fiction" aspect of SPECTRE will still be the photo of Young Bond, I'm curious to know how they'll deal with that. Are we supposed to recognize a young Craig on the photo ?

    You can prepare some vomiting bag, then :)

    Remember : the "brother" theory of that professor about Silva/Bond was considered ridiculous by the Skyfall fan crowd - I wonder that they'll say when the same team plays this to the max in SPECTRE.


  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    This film is shaping up to have everything which is good, I'd like to see a dance scene between Bond and Swan ala Bond and Domino. Ultimately, this film is shaping up to be more layered than just some personal angle story.
    MI6/00 Section is facing redundancy and it does appear to be a Craig Bond film that feels more traditional classic Bond but just amped up to reflect the harsher times and ruthless aggression of today.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,622
    Well :
    In the leak, there is three different scripts with dialogs, and all have a different approach to the ending. So I think they may be still toying with it even though the shooting has begun. It should be pointed out that "Ernst" appears in these scripts, but "Blofeld".. less so !

    The relationship between Bond and Whathisname is still very personal in every script, though. The most "fan-fiction" aspect of SPECTRE will still be the photo of Young Bond, I'm curious to know how they'll deal with that. Are we supposed to recognize a young Craig on the photo ?

    You can prepare some vomiting bag, then :)
    Remember : the "brother" theory of that professor about Silva/Bond was considered ridiculous by the Skyfall fan crowd - I wonder that they'll say when the same team plays this to the max in SPECTRE.

    I always have the vomit bags ready for any new Craig-Bond film.
    It's always an, As The Bond World Turns, presentation.

    You clearly have better info than most of us. You are describing some scary scenarios.
    This movie could be real good or real sappy bad too.
    Maybe best we can hope for is stylish entertaining action-packed Bond thriller, but laden with the usual personal drama issues. C'est la vie.


  • Well, from what I read, if Bond 25 is Craig & Mendes again, I guess we may hear about Bond's hidden child :) I mean, there's one in the Fleming canon, so it's ok for an auteur to play with the idea :)
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