SPECTRE--last Craig-era film?

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  • I think, depending on how SPECTRE fairs, 4 films is a good amount for Daniel. Before he had even shot his first scene, people were telling him how awful he was, that he will ruin the series etc. Now, after 4 movies, people are calling him one of the greatest 007's to grace our screens. So why carry on and face the chance of getting to "long in the tooth" and give those haters some ground to stand on?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    My gut on this, and it's purely my gut:

    He's done. No more DC after SP.

    I think EON and he have known it for some time (even before the leak and before the title announcement etc.). I just have a feeling he decided a while back to pack it in, but have been hopefully awaiting a statement from him to the contrary.

    He was brought in to re-energize the franchise and tell the origin story. He will have done that with SP and I don't see a better time for him to move on. I just don't see him wanting to do a regular standalone, meaning they either have to entice Mendes and the SP cast back for a sequel, or he will move on.

    Purely an opinion.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Here's another reason I want Craig back for a 5th (and 6th for that matter): this new cast of classic characters need some more time together. New M, Moneypenny, Q... it would be a shame if they only had two films together. They need more to establish their relationships.

    Agreed. Plus, it will make their introductions in SF more endearing and emotional in hindsight.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I think Craig will be back to do at least one more with or without Mendes. It's not like there's a limit on telling engaging stories that would have been exhausted with SP; and Mendes isnt the only director out there worth a damn. Craig appears to look extremely at ease in the role and looks like he has more to offer in the role.

    Obviously none of us know the specifics and we'll all have to wait and see but going on my thoughts and hopes, I'm sticking with the belief that Craig will be back for Bond 25.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited September 2015 Posts: 2,138
    I appreciate why the gun barrel was removed the PTS ends with a Bond shooting a man in the toilet in karachi it would have been silly for him to walk on screen and shoot toward the camera again right away, especially as Dan & Barbs agreed his Bond would not be a trigger happy thug with a gun he would find killing difficult to begin with having just been given 00 status.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I absolutely love the CR PTS, it's the best of all three films, brief classy and a first and the way they incorporated the GB into the titles was genius, essentially the very first GB of his story.

    The worst PTS of the series? That's the thing about Bond fans we have such differing views, our Swiss friend is proving to be the absolute opposite of myself with his views but that's his prerogative.

    Although I think some Bond fans are more impressed by the elements than the essence of the character and would just prefer allot of box ticking, hence why some want MP & Q and other boxes ticked in CR when it's not necessary.

    QOS not having the GB at the end is a bit of bug bear but that opening track across the lake into that visceral car chase wouldn't be the same and Arnold plays a blinder with that cue. I've really grown to like that PTS allot, none of Brosnan's are that good to me.

    Skyfall I'm not sure, I can see Mendes reasoning for not doing it, saying essentially that is kind of the GB just differently presented but if it doesn't turn up at the beginning of Spectre I'm not going to be happy.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @Shardlake

    QOS' PTS is unwatchable due to wild close-ups, shaky camera work and insane editing.

    I can't see which PTS should be less good than the one in CR. Certainly not Skyfall's which is bloody great.

    But as you said, all a matter of opinion.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Once Bond gets to Austria, the whiplash editing tones down quite a lot. I was focusing on that in my Bondathon. Die Another Day also has some moments of QOS style editing. Once Zao enters the drink and Bond unhooks from the ice to finish him, It's all rapid fire. :))
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @BondJasonBond006, unless I'm overlooking something, I still haven't been able to find why you think the CR PTS is the worst in the series, aside from it being in black and white.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I think the SF PTS is one of my favourites but I just love the CR one because it announce Bond back to the world with something new but still familiar.

    CR had to come back in a way that separated it from the previous films, it had to go out to bat amongst the like of Bourne & Batman and that PTS showed it was match ready to do so, a typical Bond PTS wouldn't have had half the impact.

    Like I said it will go down as one of the iconic moments of the series and it has no gimmicks that were saturated in the previous era.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @BondJasonBond006, unless I'm overlooking something, I still haven't been able to find why you think the CR PTS is the worst in the series, aside from it being in black and white.

    I think it's fantastic I'm so glad they chopped off the start at the cricket match it would have been un-needed and would not have had the same impact but just that one line "I know where you keep your gun" set the tone for Dan's dry humour that have made him a great Bond.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    CR's pts did not have any frills. It was stripped down and made its point on the back of Craig's intensity (in the toilet fight) and cool confidence (when dispatching Dryden).

    That to me was the key to its effect......it was a shock to many who had grown to expect more money thrown up on the screen, while still being numbed as more was, increasingly becoming less.

    For many, including myself, CR was a welcome case of less is more.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @SirHilaryBray, I do enjoy the cricket chase scene and the little fight scene they have (that isn't shown in the theatrical version), but I agree: the version of the PTS they went with is much better than the extended cricket scene.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    @Shardlake

    QOS' PTS is unwatchable due to wild close-ups, shaky camera work and insane editing.

    I can't see which PTS should be less good than the one in CR. Certainly not Skyfall's which is bloody great.

    But as you said, all a matter of opinion.

    I think the QoS PTS is really distinct. I think it's become the default lazy excuse to suggest you don't know what's going on. Seems pretty obvious to me and is quite a unique moment of the series. It's capped by the most bad ass moment in DC's tenure when he shoots the driver in the final Alfa. I refuse to accept that it isn't the epitome of 'cool as fuck'.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @BondJasonBond006, unless I'm overlooking something, I still haven't been able to find why you think the CR PTS is the worst in the series, aside from it being in black and white.

    I'm not sure what that fight in the restroom should accomplish, it doesn't feel like Bond it doesn't look like Bond, the b+w thing doesn't help this matter either.
    The restroom sequence looks like from another movie altogether, also the rather dull sequence in the office of James' second killing is just forgettable and the dialogue is awful. It all looks like some generic B-movie hitman story flick.
    Thank God it's so short and the sequence after the titles makes one forget the PTS rather fast.
    If they wanted to "educate" the viewer of how Bond has gotten his 00 licence, fine, but it could have been made much more entertaining.

    I wonder which PTS' other than QOS' can be considered less good than the CR one. I really can't think of any if I look at it objectively.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    RC7 wrote: »
    @Shardlake

    QOS' PTS is unwatchable due to wild close-ups, shaky camera work and insane editing.

    I can't see which PTS should be less good than the one in CR. Certainly not Skyfall's which is bloody great.

    But as you said, all a matter of opinion.

    I think the QoS PTS is really distinct. I think it's become the default lazy excuse to suggest you don't know what's going on. Seems pretty obvious to me and is quite a unique moment of the series. It's capped by the most bad ass moment in DC's tenure when he shoots the driver in the final Alfa. I refuse to accept that it isn't the epitome of 'cool as fuck'.

    Right there with you, it's an excellent PTS that, from start to finish, gets me absolutely amped for the rest of the movie. The whole 'the editing is too quick and you can't tell what's going on' complaint is just an excuse, because I know what's happening in every instance of the PTS, it's not that hard to decipher at all; it's a car chase, really isn't that hard to follow along with it.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @BondJasonBond006, unless I'm overlooking something, I still haven't been able to find why you think the CR PTS is the worst in the series, aside from it being in black and white.

    I'm not sure what that fight in the restroom should accomplish, it doesn't feel like Bond it doesn't look like Bond, the b+w thing doesn't help this matter either.
    The restroom sequence looks like from another movie altogether, also the rather dull sequence in the office of James' second killing is just forgettable and the dialogue is awful. It all looks like some generic B-movie hitman story flick.
    Thank God it's so short and the sequence after the titles makes one forget the PTS rather fast.
    If they wanted to "educate" the viewer of how Bond has gotten his 00 licence, fine, but it could have been made much more entertaining.

    I wonder which PTS' other than QOS' can be considered less good than the CR one. I really can't think of any if I look at it objectively.

    The idea is that Bond is a 'blunt instrument', hence the rather brutal and messy sequence. He is not the finessed Bond he will become. Again, you can dislike the concept, but suggesting it's just 'not Bond' is pointless. It wasn't trying to 'be Bond', it was a springboard from which he could 'become Bond'.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    @Shardlake

    QOS' PTS is unwatchable due to wild close-ups, shaky camera work and insane editing.

    I can't see which PTS should be less good than the one in CR. Certainly not Skyfall's which is bloody great.

    But as you said, all a matter of opinion.

    I think the QoS PTS is really distinct. I think it's become the default lazy excuse to suggest you don't know what's going on. Seems pretty obvious to me and is quite a unique moment of the series. It's capped by the most bad ass moment in DC's tenure when he shoots the driver in the final Alfa. I refuse to accept that it isn't the epitome of 'cool as fuck'.

    I agree. This certainly is 'cool as ......'
    Quantum-of-Solace-James-Bond-Daniel-Craig-car-chase-gun%2B(2).jpg
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited September 2015 Posts: 9,020
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    @Shardlake

    QOS' PTS is unwatchable due to wild close-ups, shaky camera work and insane editing.

    I can't see which PTS should be less good than the one in CR. Certainly not Skyfall's which is bloody great.

    But as you said, all a matter of opinion.

    I think the QoS PTS is really distinct. I think it's become the default lazy excuse to suggest you don't know what's going on. Seems pretty obvious to me and is quite a unique moment of the series. It's capped by the most bad ass moment in DC's tenure when he shoots the driver in the final Alfa. I refuse to accept that it isn't the epitome of 'cool as fuck'.

    Right there with you, it's an excellent PTS that, from start to finish, gets me absolutely amped for the rest of the movie. The whole 'the editing is too quick and you can't tell what's going on' complaint is just an excuse, because I know what's happening in every instance of the PTS, it's not that hard to decipher at all; it's a car chase, really isn't that hard to follow along with it.

    You must be joking (my favourite Connery quote).
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    @Shardlake

    QOS' PTS is unwatchable due to wild close-ups, shaky camera work and insane editing.

    I can't see which PTS should be less good than the one in CR. Certainly not Skyfall's which is bloody great.

    But as you said, all a matter of opinion.

    I think the QoS PTS is really distinct. I think it's become the default lazy excuse to suggest you don't know what's going on. Seems pretty obvious to me and is quite a unique moment of the series. It's capped by the most bad ass moment in DC's tenure when he shoots the driver in the final Alfa. I refuse to accept that it isn't the epitome of 'cool as fuck'.

    I agree. This certainly is 'cool as ......'
    Quantum-of-Solace-James-Bond-Daniel-Craig-car-chase-gun%2B(2).jpg

    Every time I watch it I shout, 'yeah!' I mean that seriously.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Just looked at the PTS Elimination thread and seen the results.
    No need for me to try to argue when CR won which is (imo) laughable but I'll accept the democratic verdict.

    1. CR
    2. TLD
    3. TSWLM
    4. GE
    5. MR
    6. OHMSS
    7. TWINE
    8. OP
    9. FRWL
    10. GF
    11. SF
    12. LTK
    13. TB
    14. QOS
    15. FYEO
    16. YOLT
    17. TND
    18. DAD
    19. TMWTGG
    20. AVTAK
    21. DAF
    22. LALD

  • edited September 2015 Posts: 725
    bondjames wrote: »
    CR's pts did not have any frills. It was stripped down and made its point on the back of Craig's intensity (in the toilet fight) and cool confidence (when dispatching Dryden).

    That to me was the key to its effect......it was a shock to many who had grown to expect more money thrown up on the screen, while still being numbed as more was, increasingly becoming less.

    For many, including myself, CR was a welcome case of less is more.

    I too thought the opening B & W CR scenes were very well done. It was a creative and rather daring decision, that took some confidence to do. It reflected the brutally intense and gritty nature of new Bond. CR has aged well with me. SF not so much. I wish they could go back and reedit QOS, it might greatly improve it. The PTS is ok with all the jump cuts, but it hurts the rest of the film.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited September 2015 Posts: 4,043
    I guess if all you want from Bond is the kind of thing we got with the PB era then CR is going to be a little underwhelming but if you want something classy that tells you exactly what kind of agent Bond is at that moment then it's perfect.

    The bathroom fight was real shock and the way they cut back and forth, Bond's dialogue to Dryden, that opening line delivered so deadpan, anyone who says Craig can't do humour clearly can't see his subtle delivery, the "yes considerably delivered wittily but with a hint of relief as we see how much an effort the first kill was with the cut back to the bathroom and that amazing dissolve into the credits and the iconic gun barrel given a brave new spin with what is for me still kleinman finest credits to date.

    CR defecates all over the Brosnan era.

    I actually prefer SF to CR but I get why many see it as the pinnacle of the Craig era and it resides at my no. 3 spot although after Spectre it will be interesting to see if CR and SF are displaced. I can't see it topping OHMSS but I could see it becoming my no. 2 if the promise of what is contained comes to fruition.
  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    @Shardlake

    QOS' PTS is unwatchable due to wild close-ups, shaky camera work and insane editing.

    I can't see which PTS should be less good than the one in CR. Certainly not Skyfall's which is bloody great.

    But as you said, all a matter of opinion.

    I think the QoS PTS is really distinct. I think it's become the default lazy excuse to suggest you don't know what's going on. Seems pretty obvious to me and is quite a unique moment of the series. It's capped by the most bad ass moment in DC's tenure when he shoots the driver in the final Alfa. I refuse to accept that it isn't the epitome of 'cool as fuck'.

    Right there with you, it's an excellent PTS that, from start to finish, gets me absolutely amped for the rest of the movie. The whole 'the editing is too quick and you can't tell what's going on' complaint is just an excuse, because I know what's happening in every instance of the PTS, it's not that hard to decipher at all; it's a car chase, really isn't that hard to follow along with it.

    It's not and my stance on the way it's edited is to put you in Bond's shoes. Everything is happening in a split second where one wrong move can be fatal. That's what the whole film is like. I truly feel I'm Bond watching QOS. I feel in danger and dangerous all at the same time. The editing shows just what is like to be in those situations.

  • Posts: 6,601

    Might this be the answer?



    Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:00 pm Post subject:


    Google translated
    Barbara Broccoli: "James Bond Daniel Craig IS End of discussion."

    We posed the question of Recasting the high priestess of the saga. The answer is clear.

    Every week, bookmakers scariest casting directors and fans by announcing 007 new potential candidates to take over the role of James Bond. Idris Elba would be the first black Bond or Damian Lewis, and if it was Tom Hardy ... Yet among gatekeepers, the question does not arise. But absolutely not. Daniel Craig has not finished with the character. Yet we asked Barbara Broccoli, producer of the saga. The answer is final. >>> Idris Elba "too street" to play James Bond >>> And if Tom Hardy became James Bond?

    Let's talk about Daniel Craig. Nobody had expected such a performance in Casino Royale.
    Barbara Broccoli: Nobody except us (laughs) We expected it. We knew he was going to convince the most skeptical. It is an extraordinary actor. All those who knew the films he had made before Bond should have noticed that when it seizes a role, it completely transforms and becomes the character. It is charismatic on screen, it is extraordinary. >>> All cults generic Bond
    Think keep much longer?
    (laughs) We hope so!

    One can regularly read yet possible successors to the role of advertisements in newspapers. Idris Elba, Michael Fassbender ...

    I know. The good side of his ads is that they show the commitment of the public and Bond character to the series, as to be invested in it. So they do all the time suggestions on casting. But in our case, Daniel IS James Bond. End of discussion! Until he himself decides otherwise, we are not, and I even absolutely not add, interested in the idea to consider anyone else in the role. Interview by David Fakrikian 007 Spectre of Sam Mendes with Daniel Craig, Léa Seydoux, Christoph Waltz, Monica Bellucci was released in theaters on November 11:

    http://www.premiere.fr/Cinema/News-Cinema/Barbara-Broccoli-Daniel-Craig-EST-James-Bond-Fin-de-la-discussion-4257005


  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Shardlake wrote: »
    CR defecates all over the Brosnan era.
    This statement amuses me more than it should. There is a finality to it that just hits you like a ton of bricks. It almost has an ineffable quality, like an unspoken truth that has been buried for centuries.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    The mixture of black and white bursting in to colour in cinema history is as old as time The Wizard of Oz thrilled audiences unexpectedly all those years ago. The use of the colour red on top was so effective In Sin City. It was a bold movie IMO they executed the idea beautifully. Dan is fantastic in the fight in the toilet this is Bonds first kill and you can see him trying to stop himself from being sick as he strangles and tries drowning the guy in the sink. It put straight one of the misconceptions that Bond is trigger happy and kills without feeling. Dan has given Bond a heart and soul Lazenby was the only other who's interpretation gave Bond a real human edge. If you have read the novels then you would know that this is more in line with what Fleming created. Take the novel YOLT it begins with Bond a heart broken wreck after Traceys death in OHMSS, then when he reaches the cliff top garden and his hiding in a shed Fleming writes of his fear, anxiety and nerves and chain smoking to help. Bond needed to reboot because it had become to cliché under Brosnan and more about the car, gadgets and corny lines. If you want that type of think Jason Statham movies are for you. But for me I love the fact it went back to its Fleming roots on the character and everything about CR was remarkable. QOS PTS I love the first few seconds with the pan in shot over the water, the heart beat shots of Dan's side profile and worming the gear box. And then at the end of the PTS with his leg caught in the rope shooting upwards that was for me a classic Bond moment.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    pachazo wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    CR defecates all over the Brosnan era.
    This statement amuses me more than it should. There is a finality to it that just hits you like a ton of bricks. It almost has an ineffable quality, like an unspoken truth that has been buried for centuries.

    I would rather watch any Brosnan film than any Craig film. Brosnan, for all his failings (and those of his era in general), still has one good Bond, TND.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited September 2015 Posts: 9,020
    pachazo wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    CR defecates all over the Brosnan era.
    This statement amuses me more than it should. There is a finality to it that just hits you like a ton of bricks. It almost has an ineffable quality, like an unspoken truth that has been buried for centuries.

    The unspoken truth in both those statements is that people who talk in such a manner about Bond movies or one Bond actor are not Bond fans at all but trolls.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited September 2015 Posts: 7,314
    I would rather watch any Brosnan film than any Craig film. Brosnan, for all his failings (and those of his era in general), still has one good Bond, TND.
    I do respect your unique outlook, Major.
    The unspoken truth in both those statements is that people who talk in such a manner about Bond movies or one Bond actor are not Bond fans at all but trolls.
    You are overemotional but that's alright. I assure you that i am not a "troll." I'm among the most dedicated of Bond fans. I just have a different point of view.
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