Rant on M,Q and Moneypenny

135

Comments

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I ask the question when you discuss the new films with people, what I hear is I like Dan's films, was not fan before then. Dont you hear this a lot?

    What i hear a lot is they are GREAT action films, but they are not really James Bond films. Not that I agree.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Yeah, I know what you mean because they perceive the old format as the "true bond". These are the same people who have not read the novels. If they had they would know the charachter is more in line with Dan's portrayal. He's more human, he has emotions.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Yes, I hear it mostly from people my age, who grew up with Roger Moore.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    I ask the question when you discuss the new films with people, what I hear is I like Dan's films, was not fan before then. Dont you hear this a lot?

    Ive never once heard this.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,622
    Personally I find Harris more of throwback to Maxwell than Sammy bond ever was. I'm not dissing Sammy Bond actually. It's justs that her portrayal, threw the character wide open for new interpretation.
    What I do like about Harris is that she is so very English.
    Pamela Salem in NSNA was very close to Maxwell and Bliss was clearly working with the Maxwell model too. It all changed with Sammy IMO.
    Therefore Harris' casting wasn't really that radical. The horse was already out of the barn, same as the Leiter horse was long ago let loose.
    And again MP, is not very well realized in Fleming's books. She makes very brief appeances. She is not fleshed out.
    Maxwell worked the character far more than Fleming ever did.
    Even Q is more a movie creation. His age, IMO doesn't matter because Q is a title. Its not the same person from actor to actor, with the possible exception of Peter Burton in DN to Llewellyn,.
    I can't remember, was Llewellyn ever referred to as Major Boothroyd?

  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Suprised, most people I speak to only like the Dan reboot. Skyfall The highest grossing film in Britan of all time all shows Dan's films are drawing a new and bigger audience and a lot of that is down to films being gritty rather than pastiche puns, gadgets and cartoon villains. Bums on seats keep the franchise alive. It wont go backwards only forwards.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    timmer wrote: »
    I can't remember, was Llewellyn ever referred to as Major Boothroyd?
    Once, I think it was in OP, but I might be mistaken.

  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Suprised, most people I speak to only like the Dan reboot. Skyfall The highest grossing film in Britan of all time all shows Dan's films are drawing a new and bigger audience and a lot of that is down to films being gritty rather than pastiche puns, gadgets and cartoon villains. Bums on seats keep the franchise alive. It wont go backwards only forwards.

    Sorry, but I just don't believe this unless you've only talked to 5 people. Bond is the longest running film franchise in history, had made 20 films that had been seen by 3 billion people before Craig and is a cultural icon on both sides of the Atlantic. Unless you have a very limited group of friends the odds that none of them liked Bond pre-2006 is small.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited December 2014 Posts: 45,489
    chrisisall wrote: »
    timmer wrote: »
    I can't remember, was Llewellyn ever referred to as Major Boothroyd?
    Once, I think it was in OP, but I might be mistaken.

    DN and FRWL..it was not until GF that he was named Q.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    In TSWLM, Anya flat out said "Good Morning Major Boothroyd."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Murdock wrote: »
    In TSWLM, Anya flat out said "Good Morning Major Boothroyd."

    YES! That's it! Thanks @Murdock!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    In TSWLM, Anya flat out said "Good Morning Major Boothroyd."

    YES! That's it! Thanks @Murdock!

    You're welcome. @chrisisall. >:D<
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Suprised, most people I speak to only like the Dan reboot. Skyfall The highest grossing film in Britan of all time all shows Dan's films are drawing a new and bigger audience and a lot of that is down to films being gritty rather than pastiche puns, gadgets and cartoon villains. Bums on seats keep the franchise alive. It wont go backwards only forwards.

    DAD put plenty of bums on seats, OHMSS not so much so I'd be wary of bandying this about as an indicator of success.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    CR 67 did too...
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    The old format was not pulling in an audience. Change took place. Bond has greater global audience than ever before. Change succeeded. That can not be argued with. The new format has a bigger draw due to the changes as it appeals more to the youth and other cultures in the world. You can defend pre Dan but the numbers we are seeing since Casino Bond has never been as popular on a global scale. The old format was getting repetitve and dated it was so far dettached from its roots it became cliche. Production can have their choice of actors people of Brosnan generation could not draw the calibre of actor that we have seen in Mads, Bardem, Waltz they all want a piece.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The old format was not pulling in an audience. Change took place. Bond has greater global audience than ever before. Change succeeded. That can not be argued with.

    But that wasn't your argument. You suggested...
    most people I speak to only like the Dan reboot.

    To which people suggested you must have spoken to a very small group, and I'd agree. The 'classic' Bond's, if you will, still hold more weight around the world than the new films. They have cemented their reputation in popular and that cannot be argued. It will still take time for the DC films to be recognised in such a way. I'm sure they will be remembered fondly.
    You can defend pre Dan

    Indeed we can. If I had to choose between taking to the first 20 films to a desert island or the 3 DC's, it's goodbye DC.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Thats your choice but thats off point. The point is Dan's target the newer generation and there is more of them globally buying in to Bond now. But the ones I speak with dont enjoy what came before. I love all Bonds my comments are in observation at the modern popularity in the franchise.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    The old format was not pulling in an audience.

    3-400,000 per is not pulling in an audience-?? You must give me the name of your bean counter.
  • RC7RC7
    edited December 2014 Posts: 10,512
    Thats your choice but thats off point. The point is Dan's target the newer generation and there is more of them globally buying in to Bond now. But the ones I speak with dont enjoy what came before. I love all Bonds my comments are in observation at the modern popularity in the franchise.

    I know a few people who prefer the Craig films and I know more people who love the early films, many who prefer them to Craig. I guess it depends who you talk to. The Craig films have certainly brought new fans to the franchise, but I refuse to believe they all dislike the old films. Any youngsters I know who've been brought to Bond via Craig are like kids in a candy store when they discover there are 20 more titles featuring the character.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    chrisisall wrote: »
    The old format was not pulling in an audience.

    3-400,000 per is not pulling in an audience-?? You must give me the name of your bean counter.

    Skyfall took $1Billion at the US box office thats GE, DAD and TND added together. Theres your bean counter!.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2014 Posts: 17,795
    Skyfall took $1Billion at the US box office thats GE, DAD and TND added together. Theres your bean counter!.
    Actually those three together took in a little bit more, but that's splitting hairs. You said "weren't pulling in an audience" which directly implies failure on some level. At least you can now admit that either you were wrong, or, more likely, you tend to chose your wording rather cavalierly.
    ;)
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    I don't think many people will dispute that Craig has breathed fresh air into the franchise. What we're objecting to is your idea that the character and films weren't wildly popular before Craig. They were. I'd encourage you to look at the box office totals adjusted for inflation. SF was the highest grossing ever, but there are several right behind it. TB made over 1b USD and that was when the market was far smaller. Bear in mind that until the late 80s there weren't millions of people in China and other developing countries watching the films.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Sark wrote: »
    Bear in mind that until the late 80s there weren't millions of people in China and other developing countries watching the films.

    And IMAX tickets at the best part of £20 a pop. That's not even inflation, that's absurd.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Read the post again US box office I assume you mean global. There was failure there were no Bonds made for a reason between Brosnan and Craig, the studio was not seeing a big enough return. At one point it looked like it wouldnt return it took a lot of work to secure funding to go forward. Look the numbers do the talking. As I said I am a fan of all my comments are based on speaking the new audience. You can get the wrong impression and as you have, become defence of the older films. My point is being missed by you completley. Speak to younger cinema goers after Spectre ask them, not a survey of life long fans to say my comment is wrong.
  • Posts: 4,622
    Murdock wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    In TSWLM, Anya flat out said "Good Morning Major Boothroyd."

    YES! That's it! Thanks @Murdock!

    You're welcome. @chrisisall. >:D<
    Good catch @murdock. So Burton-Q and Llewelyn-Q are both Boothroyd.
    Jolly good!
    Our collective Bond IQ's are that much further enhanced.

  • edited December 2014 Posts: 7,653
    Naomie Harris as MP is fine with me, even if I was expecting Johnny Depp doing a camp cameo. ;)

    That said she is a total hottie. [I am not sexist her just factual]
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Yeah, she's cool. And she was with another Bond in After The Sunset.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,622
    I can relate to the explosively controversial remarks that the good @sirhilary is making,but only so far.
    Ie if you talked to some 14 year old coming out of SF, and he really liked the movie but wasn't obsessed like us, he would probably be inclined to check out the most recent offerings. Going back for the previous 20 films over 50 years, would be a lot of work. A chore even.
    In fact I was talking to some teenagers in the QoS line-up back in 08. These guys had no interest in the older films. They hadn't even seen them. They were worried they would be too low tech. I think their interest might have extended back to the Brozzer era but no further. To them, going back any further, was like watching "old" movies.
    I told them, the old movies were way better. They gave me a withering look.

    Now, I could see a 14 year-old version of myself in 2012 marching off to cinema with the brat pack to watch SF.
    SF probably would have been hooked me into Bond fandom, and I would have immediately sought out every film in the series, and eventually the Fleming books.
    But that's me, a hardcore fan. I think we all had roughly the same experience.
    Our first exposure hooked us, and we sought out the rest, but anyone else is probably not going to make the effort. There is so much media competing for our time.
    I think teenagers in the Broz era probably embraced that era as their own too, and unless they were hardcore and hooked on Bond himself, might not have made big effort to visit the older films.
    I have relatives that are 19 and 14. Both have seen the last two Bond films, quite liked them, and will certainly see SP, when it comes out.
    Neither has expressed any interest in the older films,and that includes the Broz films. They got too much else gong on, making demands on their eyeballs.
    So no, I am not schocked that young people prefer the Craig films. These films are of their era, but the hardcore, those that become initiated into Bondom, I'm sure are still going back and devouring the whole canon asap, and then reading those Fleming novels, which keep getting re-printed.
    And something else to consider, when it comes to box-office. TB is still the second hightest grossing Bond film of all time, adjusted for inflation. All these films have made serious cash, including DAD.
    Eon switched gears because they suddenly had the rights to CR, and wanted to change things up with a re-boot and a new approach, not because they weren't making money.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    @timmer, wow, thanks for such a detailed & well written post on the matter! Let me take this moment to thank you for entertaining & informing me (us) for this past fiscal year!
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/James-Bond Thanks for your input timmer above is a link to franchise profit history it shows DAD cost $40M more to make than CR. CR made $63M more at the box office. Add the two together that was $103M more in the studios pockets for their investors. MGM were going bust and didnt want to fund another Bond, I said previoisly EON had to work hard for investment and had to deliver a good return for that investment. Barb brought in Dan, Dan's Bond brought in a new audience and the investors saw a good return and the franchise lived on. Dan's reign is also to be scrutinised QOS was far more expensive to make and the turnover margin was not as good. If you have a look at the link you will see it cost more than Skyfall to make.
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