Idris Elba considered for James Bond

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  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Another thing, once you open the door for a black man, what will happen next?
    For the sake of political correctness, they'll give the role to an actor name Byung-Hunn Lee and after him to Irrfan Khan.

    For God sake if it's not broken don't try to fix it.

    Well, they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. While I don't have an issue with a black guy playing Bond, there's no way they can get away with doing it from a place of sincerity because some people will automatically view it as being a PC move. The fact MP's skin colour is still an issue for some exemplifies that.

    Elba has the necessary gravitas to quite comfortably deliver a performance to equal, or better, Craig.

    Part of me feels like the sooner they do it, the better. Another part of me wants them to avoid it completely, because there will be a storm of ridiculously misplaced and racist animosity, which I'm not sure I'd want to witness.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    Yes, the new Leiter is black and so is the new MP. There's nothing wrong with it.

    But Bond's case is different and we know it.
  • He will be too old after Craig´s tenure and his race would be a serious problem. I don´t think this is going to happen and I am not thrilled with the idea, and I am a Luther fan...
  • dragonsky wrote: »
    I am against black Bond. Bond is not black, it would be stupid to do so. Would Black Superman work ? Absoultely no.

    I mean sure you can make a movie like that but come on, it makes no sense.

    It's like casting James Franco in a Malcolm X movie.

    Yep. It would be tantamount to spitting on Fleming's grave.
  • RC7 wrote: »
    Another thing, once you open the door for a black man, what will happen next?
    For the sake of political correctness, they'll give the role to an actor name Byung-Hunn Lee and after him to Irrfan Khan.

    For God sake if it's not broken don't try to fix it.

    Well, they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. While I don't have an issue with a black guy playing Bond, there's no way they can get away with doing it from a place of sincerity because some people will automatically view it as being a PC move. The fact MP's skin colour is still an issue for some exemplifies that.

    Elba has the necessary gravitas to quite comfortably deliver a performance to equal, or better, Craig.

    Part of me feels like the sooner they do it, the better. Another part of me wants them to avoid it completely, because there will be a storm of ridiculously misplaced and racist animosity, which I'm not sure I'd want to witness.

    I would argue that making Bond, a specifically white character from a manifestly white cultural milieu, black, would constitute anti-white racism. Not that there's anything particularly startling about that. Anti-white racism is pretty much the coin of the realm in the entertainment business.

  • RC7RC7
    edited December 2014 Posts: 10,512
    dragonsky wrote: »
    I am against black Bond. Bond is not black, it would be stupid to do so. Would Black Superman work ? Absoultely no.

    I mean sure you can make a movie like that but come on, it makes no sense.

    It's like casting James Franco in a Malcolm X movie.

    Yep. It would be tantamount to spitting on Fleming's grave.

    I don't understand the Superman vs. Malcolm X comparison. A work of fiction versus a man who is real. A man who actually existed and was defined by the colour of his skin.

    I don't understand how a black Superman makes no sense, the guy is from the planet Krypton. It's not real, in fiction the rules are there to be bent, or even completely broken. That's evolution. Every race needs icons and, but it's white people who have a monopoly on said icons and that doesn't necessarily need to be the case. A key problem is that all minority actors are defined by their colour and until they are allowed to embody characters who are defined by the wider world as 'cultural icons', this idea will be perpetuated further. This isn't about opening the floodgates to all races, sexualities, gender etc. It's about looking around and seeing those who share our societies and accepting and understanding that they share our values, they do the same jobs as us, they have the same aspirations and goals. The fact they might have slightly darker skin is redundant.

    The MLK speech still resonates today, even here in this thread and on others we are criticising people simply and unequivocally because of their skin colour, irrespective of their character, fictional or otherwise.

    As for spitting on Fleming's grave, he was a progressive chap and I imagine he'd have shed a lot of the prejudice he held, consciously and subconsciously, as he aged.

    RC7 wrote: »
    Another thing, once you open the door for a black man, what will happen next?
    For the sake of political correctness, they'll give the role to an actor name Byung-Hunn Lee and after him to Irrfan Khan.

    For God sake if it's not broken don't try to fix it.

    Well, they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. While I don't have an issue with a black guy playing Bond, there's no way they can get away with doing it from a place of sincerity because some people will automatically view it as being a PC move. The fact MP's skin colour is still an issue for some exemplifies that.

    Elba has the necessary gravitas to quite comfortably deliver a performance to equal, or better, Craig.

    Part of me feels like the sooner they do it, the better. Another part of me wants them to avoid it completely, because there will be a storm of ridiculously misplaced and racist animosity, which I'm not sure I'd want to witness.

    I would argue that making Bond, a specifically white character from a manifestly white cultural milieu, black, would constitute anti-white racism. Not that there's anything particularly startling about that. Anti-white racism is pretty much the coin of the realm in the entertainment business.

    The Bond of Fleming's novels is a white man, but the cinematic Bond has evolved, he's a product of the 21st Century and as black culture has had an increasingly definitive impact on western culture since Fleming originally wrote his novels, it's not a stretch to imagine a black man enjoying the privileges bestowed on Bond. I have several close mates who are black, went to public school, are in the top 10% of earners in the UK and have a taste for the high life that makes my own look distinctly average. I don't buy the idea that it's racism. I buy the idea some stuffy old gits don't want it to happen and that is absolutely fair enough. They just need to admit it, rather than hide behind the 'white men are victims of racism' argument.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2014 Posts: 15,718
    Would a black James Bond be more contrary to Fleming's work than some of the stuff that happens in DAD, MR, DAF or TMWTGG? And those were, and most would agree, corny OTT stuff. I wouldn't qualify Elba's acting ability the same way, not by a long shot.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    Racism? No, a black Bond would sooner be blasphemy! It would be more than taking a dump on Fleming's legacy; it'd be like taking a dump on Fleming himself. Remember, he wrote Bond to be half the man he was and half the man he wanted to be. The world of Bond may have changed but Bond himself needn't change all that much with it. Some will no doubt argue that SF introduced the metrosexual Bond - I beg to differ - but at least it's not in-your-face with every scene from SF. A black Bond would be about as in-your-face as it can be.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2014 Posts: 15,718
    @DarthDimi I really understand both sides of the coin here :) But let's imagine we are offered 2 candidates for James Bond: a white american actor who can sucessfully pass for british, or a black british actor with loads of charisma, acting talent and sophistication? Honestly I would have more issues with the ultimate british icon played by an American.
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    Can't really voice my opinion without someone saying I am a racist...
    Honestly he just isn't Bond and will never be Bond to me... I think he could be in a Bond film yeah. He is a decent actor but he shouldn't play James Bond.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    @DarthDimi I really understand both sides of the coin here :) But let's imagine we are offered 2 candidates for James Bond: a white american actor who can sucessfully pass for british, or a black british actor with loads of charisma, acting talent and sophistication? Honestly I would have more issues with the ultimate british icon played by an American.

    Why can't we choose neither?

    I think this has only come about because Elba is an outstanding candidate if merely judged on acting ability. However the whole thing is thankfully moot at least for another 2 films given he will be too old by the time Craig retires.

    It does seem however there is a groundswell in the media that this should happen sooner rather than later so tedious though this debate is I fear it's something we're going to have to face head on within the next decade.

  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    The anti-black Bond crowd really aren't acquitting themselves well with absurd comparisons to Superman, Malcom X, and Shaft, or Bond being played by a woman, homosexual or non-Brit.

    @CASINOROYALE, is anyone calling you a racist? I haven't.

    To the people absolutely opposed: what do you consider the defining features of Bond? To me his defining features are Britishness, masculinity, heterosexuality, handsomeness, charisma, and aggressive sexuality. That's why Bond could never be played by a Korean, a woman, or portrayed as a homosexual without altering the character (I have no idea where @DarthDimi is getting the idea that Bond was 'metrosexual' in Skyfall).

    For Shaft and Malcom X their race was an essential part of who they were. It shaped their life experiences and world view. The same could be said of the literary Bond, but it's not the 1950s anymore. The argument that a black actor couldn't play Bond because he comes from a "white cultural mileau" is wrong, unless people are prepared to argue that there are no black students at Cambridge, or black SAS fighters, or MI6/SIS officers. That's a hard argument since Johnson Beharry was the last person awarded the Victoria Cross.

    Someone who is opposed to non-white Bond needs to explain how the personality or character of Bond would have to change with a change in race.

    And I'm afraid that appeals to what Fleming would have wanted will fall on deaf ears. I'm not a Fleming purist. He gave us the character, and I'm grateful for that, but even starting with the first films that are universally lauded among traditionalists EON has taken considerable liberties with the character of Bond.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,282
    @DarthDimi I really understand both sides of the coin here :) But let's imagine we are offered 2 candidates for James Bond: a white american actor who can sucessfully pass for british, or a black british actor with loads of charisma, acting talent and sophistication? Honestly I would have more issues with the ultimate british icon played by an American.

    Why can't we choose neither?

    I think this has only come about because Elba is an outstanding candidate if merely judged on acting ability. However the whole thing is thankfully moot at least for another 2 films given he will be too old by the time Craig retires.

    It does seem however there is a groundswell in the media that this should happen sooner rather than later so tedious though this debate is I fear it's something we're going to have to face head on within the next decade.

    It's like one of my co-workers said when I said Idris Elba would be too old when Daniel Craig finishes his run as Bond - oh, she said, "But Roger Moore was old and so was Pierce Brosnan!" So there!
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2014 Posts: 15,718
    I totally agree with @Sark. A black actor can fit 99% of the criterias recquired to be Bond, the only one missing would be the skin colour. Far less contrary to what Bond is than an American Bond, or a female Bond or a homosexual Bond. The last 3 would need a total rewrite of the Bond character. What would you need to rewrite for a black Bond? As said there are black students in Cambridge, black SAS fighters and black mi6 agents, so the 007 dossier from the CR website would fit a black Bond perfectly.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,282
    I totally agree with @Sark. A black actor can fit 99% of the criterias recquired to be Bond, the only one missing would be the skin colour. Far less contrary to what Bond is than an American Bond, or a female Bond or a homosexual bOND.

    It opens the floodgates to all of that other madness you suggest though which is as good an idea as any for not permitting it in the first place. What next, a disabled Bond in a wheelchair. Come on!
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2014 Posts: 15,718
    A female Bond, a handicapped Bond, a homosexual Bond would need total rewrite of the character and the entire way the films are made would have to be significately altered. Name me 1 thing that would need to be changed for a black Bond? I can picture the last 3 films the same if there was a black Bond in them. CR 2006 with Roger Moore as Bond would need more changes than with a black Bond.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2014 Posts: 18,282
    A female Bond, a handicapped Bond, a homosexual Bond would need total rewrite of the character and the entire way the films are made would have to be significately. Name me 1 thing that would need to be changed for a black Bond? I can picture the last 3 films the same if there was a black Bond in them.

    OK, how about Ian Fleming's grave as with the casting of a black actor as his hero James Bond he'd have spun all the way out of his old one. :D

    But pay me no heed as I am a dreaded "Fleming purist". ;)
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited December 2014 Posts: 13,978
    Name me 1 thing that would need to be changed for a black Bond?

    His skin colour.


    Seriously, though i'm not a fan of this idea, I just don't see why it needs to happen (I would rather see a black British spy created specifically for such casting. But I feel it will happen one day. I am not pleased with where the series is right now, a black Bond won't improve my feelings.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2014 Posts: 15,718
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    A female Bond, a handicapped Bond, a homosexual Bond would need total rewrite of the character and the entire way the films are made would have to be significately. Name me 1 thing that would need to be changed for a black Bond? I can picture the last 3 films the same if there was a black Bond in them.

    OK, how about Ian Fleming's grave as with the casting of a black actor as his hero James Bond he'd have spun out of his old one. :D

    Imagine CR 2006 with Roger Moore as Bond or with a black Bond. IMO the 2nd option would be almost similar to the one that was made, while the one with Moore would be totally different. So even putting elements in CR that are featured already in the franchise would be more different than a black Bond. And a gay or female Bond in CR would be even more different and contrary to the film and character.
    Name me 1 thing that would need to be changed for a black Bond?

    His skin colour.

    And what would that change in CR of SF? ;) IMO you can make CR, QOS and SF exactly the same with a black Bond. But a gay Bond or a female Bond would made these 3 films totally different.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    h
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    A female Bond, a handicapped Bond, a homosexual Bond would need total rewrite of the character and the entire way the films are made would have to be significately. Name me 1 thing that would need to be changed for a black Bond? I can picture the last 3 films the same if there was a black Bond in them.

    OK, how about Ian Fleming's grave as with the casting of a black actor as his hero James Bond he'd have spun out of his old one. :D

    But pay me no heed as I am a dreaded "Fleming purist". ;)

    I think that says more about the mores of the 1950s than it says about the ability of a black actor to play Bond.

    I am making no claim about anyome else's motivations, but I know as a teenager before they cast Craig there was rumors of a black Bond. If im honest I think a large part of my negative reaction was due to a difficulty seeing a black man as a hero/role model. In the US nearly all our heros are white, and most portrayals of black men negative. Thankfully I grew up from that view.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2014 Posts: 18,282
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    A female Bond, a handicapped Bond, a homosexual Bond would need total rewrite of the character and the entire way the films are made would have to be significately. Name me 1 thing that would need to be changed for a black Bond? I can picture the last 3 films the same if there was a black Bond in them.

    OK, how about Ian Fleming's grave as with the casting of a black actor as his hero James Bond he'd have spun out of his old one. :D

    Imagine CR 2006 with Roger Moore as Bond or with a black Bond. IMO the 2nd option would be almost similar to the one that was made, while the one with Moore would be totally different. So even putting elements in CR that are featured already in the franchise would be more different than a black Bond. And a gay or female Bond in CR would be even more different and contrary to the film and character.
    Name me 1 thing that would need to be changed for a black Bond?

    His skin colour.

    And what would that change in CR of SF? ;)

    Yes, but which black actor? All black actors are not the same just as all white or Jewish or Hispanic actors are not the same either! We're merely talking in possibilities here - no definite names, Idris Elba apart.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2014 Posts: 15,718
    Evidently I meant a black actor with similar age, intensity, charisma, masculinity, and handsomness than Craig :) I don't have a suggestion on top of my head right now but I am sure there is a black actor somewhere that fits these criterias.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,282
    Evidently I meant a black actor with similar age, intensity, charisma, masculinity, and handsomness than Craig :)

    And where is this actor? That's my point!
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited December 2014 Posts: 13,978
    And what would that change in CR of SF? ;)

    It wouldn't be Craig as Bond. ;)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Evidently I meant a black actor with similar age, intensity, charisma, masculinity, and handsomness than Craig :)

    And where is this actor? That's my point!

    Where is the white actor that a majority of users of this website agree on for Bond #7? I haven't seen any suggestion for a 'white' Bond that wasn't met with backlash when posted in other threads.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    @Sark

    The metrosexual thing doesn't come from me. Nor do I support it. But some members seem to think that the Craig Bond is exactly that. I think the much debated scene with Bond tied to a chair in SF has everything to do with it. :-)
  • Posts: 1,181
    I think the metrosexual/bisexual type thing kind of comes from the scene where Silva is touching his chest and legs and says oh well theres a first time for everything. Then Bond says what makes you think it's my first time? He's obviously making a snide reply to Silva, but some people take it literally.

    I'm in line with the person that said if we have a black Bond, let's have one because they were the best choice out of available actors who can fit the role. Not for the sake of solely having a black Bond. Also, keep him British or as close to British as possible. I'm an American, but I would never want to see an American actor try to pull off Bond. And again, they need to bring in a younger actor.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    I agree that a talented actor is a talented actor, no matter what his skin colour. I also agree that if the choice is between a talented black British actor, like Idris, and a worthless white actor who can't get passed the auditioning for a cheap soap series, there's absolutely no question as to who should get the role.

    But surely we haven't run out of white actors who are at least as talented as Idris and who also look the part. So we may not ever have to option for the talented black actor for lack of a good white one.

    I hate to be the troublemaker here but it's just something I don't want. Now I'm not going to abandon Bond fandom if they'd ever choose a black Bond. I'd be very curious and I might even end up changing my view on these things. But I don't think it would be a smart move...
  • Would a black James Bond be more contrary to Fleming's work than some of the stuff that happens in DAD, MR, DAF or TMWTGG? And those were, and most would agree, corny OTT stuff. I wouldn't qualify Elba's acting ability the same way, not by a long shot.

    Outside of DAD, there is nothing FUNDAMENTALLY anti-Fleming in those other films. Whiteness, OTOH, is part of Bond's essence. To turn Bond black would be to purposefully undermine the very foundation of the character. Race matters. It matters one hell of a lot.

  • Can't really voice my opinion without someone saying I am a racist...
    Honestly he just isn't Bond and will never be Bond to me... I think he could be in a Bond film yeah. He is a decent actor but he shouldn't play James Bond.

    Don't allow them to intimidate and silence you with that tactic. There is a great deal of very important truth in this world that is not spoken for the simple fear of social ostracism, loss of livelihood, and in some nations, juridical persecution. Say what you believe, and force their hypocrisy to come into the open where everybody can see it.

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