The Bond Movies & Actors I Can't Stand (Negativity Only Please)

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  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited April 2016 Posts: 4,116
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    @Bain123 - I suppose then that Dalton was the opposite of Moore. He wasn't imposing but he was threatening at times.

    I think that's fair.
    Yes, that's well put. Dalton didn't seem imposing at all, but his look could be quite threatening. I think Craig is the same.

    Dalton's an odd one in that, in theory, he should be more imposing on film than he is being a very tall man. However, I don't think he quite "grabs" the screen. Even when you compare him to someone like Lazenby, its Laz who is the more impressive on camera.

    I don't think Dalton's baggy clothes or "school-teacher" like suits (which now look pretty dated and unimpressive) really helped him to be fair.

    I like Dalton but I tend to agree. Even being an accomplished stage actor Dalton so needed a real director to help create his Bond. Young and Campbell both accomplished that with their respective Bond introductions.

    Mendes tried but took the edge away from Craig's Bond. Less blunt more tired and withered. Still loved SF. With SP Craig's Bond just became self parody. Craig playing Craig's Bond. Moore did the same especially in his later Bonds but I still loved Moore as Bond.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    @Bain123 - I suppose then that Dalton was the opposite of Moore. He wasn't imposing but he was threatening at times.

    I think that's fair.
    Yes, that's well put. Dalton didn't seem imposing at all, but his look could be quite threatening. I think Craig is the same.

    Dalton's an odd one in that, in theory, he should be more imposing on film than he is being a very tall man. However, I don't think he quite "grabs" the screen. Even when you compare him to someone like Lazenby, its Laz who is the more impressive on camera.

    I don't think Dalton's baggy clothes or "school-teacher" like suits (which now look pretty dated and unimpressive) really helped him to be fair.

    I like Dalton but I tend to agree. Even being an accomplished stage actor Dalton so needed a real director to help create his Bond. Young and Campbell both accomplished that their respective Bond introductions.

    Mendes tried but took the edge away from Craig's Bond. Less blunt more tired and withered. Still loved SF. With SP Craig's Bond just became self parody. Craig playing Craig's Bond. Moore did the same especially in his later Bonds but I still loved Moore as Bond.
    Excellent points. Well put.

    With SP, it's the first time I thought Craig was channeling something rather than being himself. In that respect I found his performance strangely early Brosnan'esque. In fact, somewhat controversially, I might say I prefer Brosnan as Bond in DAD to Craig as Bond in SP (credibility zapping sacrilege I realize), but I'm not sure if that's on account of the film, or the acting.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    bondjames wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    @Bain123 - I suppose then that Dalton was the opposite of Moore. He wasn't imposing but he was threatening at times.

    I think that's fair.
    Yes, that's well put. Dalton didn't seem imposing at all, but his look could be quite threatening. I think Craig is the same.

    Dalton's an odd one in that, in theory, he should be more imposing on film than he is being a very tall man. However, I don't think he quite "grabs" the screen. Even when you compare him to someone like Lazenby, its Laz who is the more impressive on camera.

    I don't think Dalton's baggy clothes or "school-teacher" like suits (which now look pretty dated and unimpressive) really helped him to be fair.

    I like Dalton but I tend to agree. Even being an accomplished stage actor Dalton so needed a real director to help create his Bond. Young and Campbell both accomplished that their respective Bond introductions.

    Mendes tried but took the edge away from Craig's Bond. Less blunt more tired and withered. Still loved SF. With SP Craig's Bond just became self parody. Craig playing Craig's Bond. Moore did the same especially in his later Bonds but I still loved Moore as Bond.
    Excellent points. Well put.

    With SP, it's the first time I thought Craig was channeling something rather than being himself. In that respect I found his performance strangely early Brosnan'esque. In fact, somewhat controversially, I might say I prefer Brosnan as Bond in DAD to Craig as Bond in SP (credibility zapping sacrilege I realize), but I'm not sure if that's on account of the film, or the acting.

    Thank you ...and yes I agree. Brosnan certainly seemed more memorable to me in DAD than Craig in SP.

    Only exception for me at least is the L'American scene. Not really sure how Fleming that scene is but it's at least memorable.

    Plus the CGI mouse was cute.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Only exception for me at least is the L'American scene. Not really sure how Fleming that scene is but it's at least memorable.

    Plus the CGI mouse was cute.
    Agreed on L'Americaine. This is the one scene where I felt Craig was the Craig of old. Completely natural. In fact, the scene could have been lifted from CR/QoS. Loved it, although the film slowed down a lot there.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,298
    I like the Glen era as well. He lacked flair and discernible style (definitely a workman director) but he got the job done and coaxed out some of Moore's best performances.

    Agreed. He had a rapport with Moore, who became better in the Glen films (yes, even AVTAK--RIP Tibbett). And he knew how to direct action, which has been a problem for all of the post-Glen directors save Campbell.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    echo wrote: »
    I like the Glen era as well. He lacked flair and discernible style (definitely a workman director) but he got the job done and coaxed out some of Moore's best performances.

    Agreed. He had a rapport with Moore, who became better in the Glen films (yes, even AVTAK--RIP Tibbett). And he knew how to direct action, which has been a problem for all of the post-Glen directors save Campbell.

    Spottiswoode was quite good as well (TND)
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    But I think Brosnan physically matured nicely in the role. Compare Brosnan in DAD to Brosnan in GE or even further back to Remington Steele and you can see a change.

    Definitely agree.
    That's why im glag he didn't get the part for the living Daylights or Licence to kill. Hecwas a little too young even i admit in Goldeneye still looked a bitt too young so i think him and Craig definitely improved as their films advanced.

  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    suavejmf wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    EON Productions presents Timothy Dalton as Ian Fleming's James Bond 007

    Truer than it's ever been too.

    "Licence To Kill is one of the most underrated Bond movies since On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Timothy Dalton embodies the character. With a break away from the comic-book villains and fantastical locations, the filmmakers decide to focus instead on a very adult and contemporary story about drug smuggling and revenge.

    Its themes require a more mature perspective than its predecessors. Unfortunately, these factors seem to be what critics of Licence To Kill call 'faults'. Casino Royale gets major appreciation from critics for its grittiness and its darker edge. So why not Licence To Kill?

    This is the movie that started the current trend, with Dalton's mature portrayal of Bond paving the way for the unfortunately mid market Pierce Brosnan and, without doubt, Daniel Craig.

    The characters in Licence To Kill are one of it's major plus points. James Bond is the most human we have seen him since OHMSS and up to CR, as Dalton brings a real sense emotional depth to the character; a tortured man full of hurt and pain and vengeance. It's a rare scenario where you feel Bond has met someone of equal competence. The Sanchez character is a frightening presence, and an early role from Benicio Del Toro is just as effective; his chilling grin a fear-inducing sight.

    The brilliant Michael Kamen also supplies us with an elegant, sensual and brooding score that is a vital player unto itself, complimenting the visuals excellently.

    With a striking leading man in Bond's shoes, Licence To Kill deserves a lot more credit than it gets. This is the film that broke the mould, opening the doors to a more adult, violent Bond.

    In Timothy Dalton we have a brilliant actor in the starring role who brought us a more human and believable Bond, yet it is Daniel Craig who is currently getting the credit for these exact traits. His characterisation is superb. But Dalton is the one who started it off, and it is a shame that he only made the two films".
    [/i]

    LTK is a dog of a film compared to CR.

    LTK wants the graphic violence and 'grown up storyline but still wants Bond waterskiing behind a plane without ski's and making trucks do wheelies. The film just doesn't work.

    And as I mentioned before, Dalton's performance is overdone and unnatural. Far removed from his relaxed and skillfull turn in TLD.

    As for Kamen's score, it's one of the worst of the series. It overuses the Bond theme all through the film and adds that awful Spanish guitar. Horrible soundtrack.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Only exception for me at least is the L'American scene. Not really sure how Fleming that scene is but it's at least memorable.

    Plus the CGI mouse was cute.
    Agreed on L'Americaine. This is the one scene where I felt Craig was the Craig of old. Completely natural. In fact, the scene could have been lifted from CR/QoS. Loved it, although the film slowed down a lot there.

    Agree that Craig excelled in this scene and the Mr White one but I do feel his SP performance was, I hesitate to use the word weakest as all of his performances are damn good, the one he put least effort into. Not saying he phoned it in by any stretch but I don't think he was pushing himself like he did in the other 3. Of course he wasn't helped by the script at all with its schizophrenic detour into almost Moore territory during the car chase.

    No doubt @BondJasonBond006 will say this is because he is comfortable in the role now and he was playing proper Bond of old but I'm not really having that.

    I feel a lot more Fleming Bond from him in his first three than at any time during SP.
    suavejmf wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    EON Productions presents Timothy Dalton as Ian Fleming's James Bond 007

    Truer than it's ever been too.

    "Licence To Kill is one of the most underrated Bond movies since On Her Majesty's Secret Service. Timothy Dalton embodies the character. With a break away from the comic-book villains and fantastical locations, the filmmakers decide to focus instead on a very adult and contemporary story about drug smuggling and revenge.

    Its themes require a more mature perspective than its predecessors. Unfortunately, these factors seem to be what critics of Licence To Kill call 'faults'. Casino Royale gets major appreciation from critics for its grittiness and its darker edge. So why not Licence To Kill?

    This is the movie that started the current trend, with Dalton's mature portrayal of Bond paving the way for the unfortunately mid market Pierce Brosnan and, without doubt, Daniel Craig.

    The characters in Licence To Kill are one of it's major plus points. James Bond is the most human we have seen him since OHMSS and up to CR, as Dalton brings a real sense emotional depth to the character; a tortured man full of hurt and pain and vengeance. It's a rare scenario where you feel Bond has met someone of equal competence. The Sanchez character is a frightening presence, and an early role from Benicio Del Toro is just as effective; his chilling grin a fear-inducing sight.

    The brilliant Michael Kamen also supplies us with an elegant, sensual and brooding score that is a vital player unto itself, complimenting the visuals excellently.

    With a striking leading man in Bond's shoes, Licence To Kill deserves a lot more credit than it gets. This is the film that broke the mould, opening the doors to a more adult, violent Bond.

    In Timothy Dalton we have a brilliant actor in the starring role who brought us a more human and believable Bond, yet it is Daniel Craig who is currently getting the credit for these exact traits. His characterisation is superb. But Dalton is the one who started it off, and it is a shame that he only made the two films".
    [/i]

    LTK is a dog of a film compared to CR.

    LTK wants the graphic violence and 'grown up storyline but still wants Bond waterskiing behind a plane without ski's and making trucks do wheelies. The film just doesn't work.

    And as I mentioned before, Dalton's performance is overdone and unnatural. Far removed from his relaxed and skillfull turn in TLD.

    As for Kamen's score, it's one of the worst of the series. It overuses the Bond theme all through the film and adds that awful Spanish guitar. Horrible soundtrack.

    I find it difficult to argue with these points although wouldn't quite go as far as to call it a dog of a film. It's certainly overrated by people who think it's some sort of Fleming-esque masterpiece though.

    I will pull you up on the waterskiing sequence which is classic Bond but you are bang on about the wheelie. An utterly inane moment in a very good action sequence.

    You're spot on with Kamem as well. Terrible score but I'll give him the nod over Newman's SP efforts as at least you feel Kamem was trying.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited April 2016 Posts: 17,798
    As this is a negativity thread...
    Licence To Kill sucked.
    It looked like Miami Vice, it sounded like Die Hard, the vehicle stuntwork was out a Smoky & The Bandit flick, the main villain reminded me of a bad guy in The Goonies, the actresses looked like Three's Company sitcom rejects, the wardrobe was recycled wrinkled junk from American Gigolo, and the hair stylist was clearly drunk during the shoot.
    What a waste.
    Of money.
    :))
    Was I convincing there?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    The Bond theme wasn't overused in LTK, It was used Perfectly. It was used in full three times with hints of the theme used sparingly.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    The sometimes grotesque criticism Spectre gets around here is hilarious.

    Some people should learn to have fun and take a movie for what it is, entertainment to get away from the daily worries. Spectre does that very successfully, as almost all of the past Bond movies did.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    The sometimes grotesque criticism Spectre gets around here is hilarious.

    Some people should learn to have fun and take a movie for what it is, entertainment to get away from the daily worries. Spectre does that very successfully, as almost all of the past Bond movies did.

    This 100% ^:)^
  • edited April 2016 Posts: 337
    I hardly think Spectre's amazing, but at least it manages to take itself in good humour at various points unlike LTK, which seems to plod along in the most dour fashion and somehow manages to implement Moore-tier unrealism in Bond's grimmest and flattest journey.

    I think that's enough LTK-bashing from me, but the only other film I find difficult to swallow at times is TWINE, which has almost nothing going for it in my opinion.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Murdock wrote: »
    The Bond theme wasn't overused in LTK, It was used Perfectly. It was used in full three times with hints of the theme used sparingly.

    It was overused in the PTS! Let alone the rest of the film!

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Murdock wrote: »
    The Bond theme wasn't overused in LTK, It was used Perfectly. It was used in full three times with hints of the theme used sparingly.

    It was overused in the PTS! Let alone the rest of the film!

    Indeed.
  • Posts: 1,631
    I like Kamen's score for Licence to Kill, but I would agree that the Bond theme is a bit overused (although not as much as it is in Tomorrow Never Dies). I also think that Kamen should have gone about using the theme differently. It's a bit too light, for want of a better term, for the film. Something darker in tone, maybe scaling it back to just a guitar (albeit with a slightly lower tone than the usual rendition of the theme) would have been a better way to go.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    David Arnold's track White Knight is better than the entre LTK score
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited April 2016 Posts: 13,978
    It's not possible to overuse the Bond theme (the real crime is when it's hardly used). But there are inappropriate times to include it, such as when Bond is in his hotel room in DN. Then it's just silly.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Murdock wrote: »
    The Bond theme wasn't overused in LTK, It was used Perfectly. It was used in full three times with hints of the theme used sparingly.

    It was overused in the PTS! Let alone the rest of the film!
    How was it overused in the PTS if it was used only once during it?

    :-O
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    It's not possible to overuse the Bond theme (the real crime is when it's hardly used). But there are inappropriate times to include it, such as when Bond is in his hotel room in DN. Then it's just silly.

    Oh come on, if all you heard through the entire film was the Bond theme you'd be sick of it by the end! It would get boring very quickly.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I've listened to over 25 different versions of the James Bond theme one after another, Never got boring. It's one of these songs that can never get boring for how great it is.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996

    Murdock wrote: »
    I've listened to over 25 different versions of the James Bond theme one after another, Never got boring. It's one of these songs that can never get boring for how great it is.

    It's a great theme but to use it relentlessly through a whole film wouldn't work. It would get tedious. Which is why John Barry mixed it up with music based on the title songs and his own Bond compositions. He never just played the Bond theme over and over again. But then what did he know eh?

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    I've listened to over 25 different versions of the James Bond theme one after another, Never got boring. It's one of these songs that can never get boring for how great it is.
    It's a great theme but to use it relentlessly through a whole film wouldn't work. It would get tedious. Which is why John Barry mixed it up with music based on the title songs and his own Bond compositions. He never just played the Bond theme over and over again. But then what did he know eh?
    Agreed. This is what I've been saying for some time now. Barry knew how to mix it up and twist and turn the Bond theme each time by melding it into his own composition for each respective film. Only during some 'Bond' moment would he let it blare out in traditional form. That's the way it should be done imho.

    Having said that, I don't mind the LTK score at all. It's a unique blend of Kamen's signature action sound, some Latin influences, and the Bond theme. Distinctive in the canon, as are all the one-off scores, which I actually prefer to 'house' composer David Arnold's first three efforts.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Murdock wrote: »
    I've listened to over 25 different versions of the James Bond theme one after another, Never got boring. It's one of these songs that can never get boring for how great it is.

    It's a great theme but to use it relentlessly through a whole film wouldn't work. It would get tedious. Which is why John Barry mixed it up with music based on the title songs and his own Bond compositions. He never just played the Bond theme over and over again. But then what did he know eh?

    It's not used relentlessly through the film. It's used during the PTS, When Bond steals Sanchez's plane after escaping the Wavekrest and during the last half of the tanker chase. That's in full. Then there are other somber moments when it's used but it's never relentless. No Bond movie has ever overused the Bond theme. In fact it's been so heavily underused in the last 10 years it's annoying.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I've listened to over 25 different versions of the James Bond theme one after another, Never got boring. It's one of these songs that can never get boring for how great it is.

    It's a great theme but to use it relentlessly through a whole film wouldn't work. It would get tedious. Which is why John Barry mixed it up with music based on the title songs and his own Bond compositions. He never just played the Bond theme over and over again. But then what did he know eh?

    It's not used relentlessly through the film. It's used during the PTS, When Bond steals Sanchez's plane after escaping the Wavekrest and during the last half of the tanker chase. That's in full. Then there are other somber moments when it's used but it's never relentless. No Bond movie has ever overused the Bond theme. In fact it's been so heavily underused in the last 10 years it's annoying.

    I wasn't talking about LTK. YOU said it was impossible to overuse the Bond theme. A frankly absurd comment which is why I explained John Barry's way of doing a Bond score.

    It's great when the Bond theme suddenly appears during a Bond film as long as its used sparingly.

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I've listened to over 25 different versions of the James Bond theme one after another, Never got boring. It's one of these songs that can never get boring for how great it is.

    It's a great theme but to use it relentlessly through a whole film wouldn't work. It would get tedious. Which is why John Barry mixed it up with music based on the title songs and his own Bond compositions. He never just played the Bond theme over and over again. But then what did he know eh?

    It's not used relentlessly through the film. It's used during the PTS, When Bond steals Sanchez's plane after escaping the Wavekrest and during the last half of the tanker chase. That's in full. Then there are other somber moments when it's used but it's never relentless. No Bond movie has ever overused the Bond theme. In fact it's been so heavily underused in the last 10 years it's annoying.

    I wasn't talking about LTK. YOU said it was impossible to overuse the Bond theme. A frankly absurd comment which is why I explained John Barry's way of doing a Bond score.

    It's great when the Bond theme suddenly appears during a Bond film as long as its used sparingly.

    Relax will ya. We're all friendly here. It's not obsurd, It's an opinion.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    I am friendly, but your opinion in my opinion, is absurd.

    But you are welcome to your opinion....
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited April 2016 Posts: 9,117
    Murdock wrote: »
    I've listened to over 25 different versions of the James Bond theme one after another, Never got boring. It's one of these songs that can never get boring for how great it is.

    It's a great theme but to use it relentlessly through a whole film wouldn't work. It would get tedious. Which is why John Barry mixed it up with music based on the title songs and his own Bond compositions. He never just played the Bond theme over and over again. But then what did he know eh?

    I'm with you mate but sounds like we're fighting a losing battle.

    It seems people want the Bond theme like it is used in games to tell them every time something Bondian happens rather than weaved into an overall score like Barry used to do.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Murdock wrote: »
    I've listened to over 25 different versions of the James Bond theme one after another, Never got boring. It's one of these songs that can never get boring for how great it is.

    It's a great theme but to use it relentlessly through a whole film wouldn't work. It would get tedious. Which is why John Barry mixed it up with music based on the title songs and his own Bond compositions. He never just played the Bond theme over and over again. But then what did he know eh?

    I'm with you mate but sounds like we're fighting a losing battle.

    It seems people want the Bond theme like it is used in games to tell them every time something Bondian happens rather than weaved into an overall score like Barry used to do.

    It wouldn't have hurt in SPECTRE. I'll take the Bond theme over lazy rehashed music from the last film.
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