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James Bond on Blu-ray/4K

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  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,153
    I could be way off, but I seem to remember the CBS/Fox 1990 VHS version looking somewhere between the SE DVD and the new 4K transfer. The woman's face was cropped off due to pan and scan. We just saw the image of Dalton and the gloved hand holding the PPK.
    In the cinema I thought it was mostly blue, but closer to the 4K.
    Funny thing about the title sequence colors. I remember the 2006 UE DVD of LALD being over saturated in red to the point the images bled. Same with the gunbarrel blood. Thankfully that was corrected on the BD.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I could be way off, but I seem to remember the CBS/Fox 1990 VHS version looking somewhere between the SE DVD and the new 4K transfer. The woman's face was cropped off due to pan and scan. We just saw the image of Dalton and the gloved hand holding the PPK.
    In the cinema I thought it was mostly blue, but closer to the 4K.
    Funny thing about the title sequence colors. I remember the 2006 UE DVD of LALD being over saturated in red to the point the images bled. Same with the gunbarrel blood. Thankfully that was corrected on the BD.

    It does make me curious of how the overall look in the widescreen FOX/CBS LD looks. I may have to snag it someday just for comparison sake.
  • Casino007RoyaleCasino007Royale
    Posts: 28
    AMAZON PRIME in the USA has several of the movies in 4k if you search "James Bond 4K". Not sure if these are comparable to the iTunes 4K, but worth checking out.

    While I have a 4K TV, they don't strike me as such an obvious upgrade from the Blu-Rays, curious to see what you guys think!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    Prime should have the same 4K remasters as iTunes. 👌🏼
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    Here's LTK. I already thought the Lowry remaster was pretty strong. Older videos were either too soft (LD) or had so much edge enhancement applied (SE DVD), but the bonus of the 2006 UE DVD was that it was the uncut version of the film that had all those little brief shots reinserted (which were originally removed to avoid an R rating). It was easy to tell they were cut out just by hearing how the soundtrack suddenly skipped a beat because the edits were done late in the process.

    So, about the 4K... HOLY CRAP, this is a seriously grainy looking film to the point I kind of found it distracting at times, and this is mainly during the ten minutes after the titles like in the interrogation room with Sanchez, Killifer and the other Agent Johnson (no relation), Felix's office, Sanchez hiding in Krest's lab. I haven't watched the whole film yet, but I imagine it's in later scenes set at night, the cocaine lab, etc. There's a considerable amount of flickering going on that can't be conveyed in a still image. I suspect Lowry did what they could to smooth the rough edges with a considerable amount of DNR work for the blu-ray, but MGM's 4K remaster seems to have left the grain alone or at least gave it the minimum amount of attention because it's kind of all over the place. Sometimes the same shot will have flickering, then stop and look more stabilized, then flicker again. Because this film was shot primarily in Mexico, they used their local film stocks (credited Kodak Mexicana) which accounts for why LTK never looked as rich as TLD even though they both have the same DP Alec Mills. I suppose the grittier look fits the darker tone of this film. Wish I had the proper equipment to upload a sample of the footage in true 4K to really show you how it looks. Meanwhile, here's the caps.





    1994 MGM LD
    01LTK1.png



    1999 MGM SE DVD
    01LTK2.png



    2009 FOX BD
    01LTK4.png



    2017 iTunes 4K
    01LTK4K.png






    1994 MGM LD
    02LTK1.png



    1999 MGM SE DVD
    02LTK2.png



    2009 FOX BD
    02LTK4.png



    2017 iTunes 4K
    02LTK4K.png






    1994 MGM LD
    03LTK1.png



    1999 MGM SE DVD
    03LTK2.png



    2009 FOX BD
    03LTK4.png



    2017 iTunes 4K
    03LTK4K.png






    1994 MGM LD
    04LTK1.png



    1999 MGM SE DVD
    04LTK2.png



    2009 FOX BD
    04LTK4.png



    2017 iTunes 4K
    04LTK4K.png






    1994 MGM LD
    05LTK1.png



    1999 MGM SE DVD
    05LTK2.png



    2009 FOX BD
    05LTK4.png



    2017 iTunes 4K
    05LTK4K.png






    1994 MGM LD
    06LTK1.png



    1999 MGM SE DVD
    06LTK2.png



    2009 FOX BD
    06LTK4.png



    2017 iTunes 4K
    06LTK4K.png






    1994 MGM LD
    07LTK1.png



    1999 MGM SE DVD
    07LTK2.png



    2009 FOX BD
    07LTK4.png



    2017 iTunes 4K
    07LTK4K.png






    1994 MGM LD
    08LTK1.png



    1999 MGM SE DVD
    08LTK2.png



    2009 FOX BD
    08LTK4.png



    2017 iTunes 4K
    08LTK4K.png






    1994 MGM LD
    09LTK1.png



    1999 MGM SE DVD
    09LTK2.png



    2009 FOX BD
    09LTK4.png



    2017 iTunes 4K
    09LTK4K.png






    1994 MGM LD
    10LTK1.png



    1999 MGM SE DVD
    10LTK2.png



    2009 FOX BD
    10LTK4.png



    2017 iTunes 4K
    10LTK4K.png






    1994 MGM LD
    11LTK1.png



    1999 MGM SE DVD
    11LTK2.png



    2009 FOX BD
    11LTK4.png



    2017 iTunes 4K
    11LTK4K.png






    1994 MGM LD
    12LTK1.png



    1999 MGM SE DVD
    12LTK2.png



    2009 FOX BD
    12LTK4.png



    2017 iTunes 4K
    12LTK4K.png






    1994 MGM LD
    13LTK1.png



    1999 MGM SE DVD
    13LTK2.png



    2009 FOX BD
    13LTK4.png



    2017 iTunes 4K
    13LTK4K.png






    1994 MGM LD
    14LTK1.png



    1999 MGM SE DVD
    14LTK2.png



    2009 FOX BD
    14LTK4.png



    2017 iTunes 4K
    14LTK4K.png






  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,153
    LTK was a very grainy film in the cinema. Even Gene Siskel in his review pointed out how dirty the picture looked.

    The only scenes in the cinema that evoked the old style Bond glamour were the casino sequences. Talisa's red dress really popped as did Carey's purple. The red filtered shot of Diana Lee Hsu in the titles was a very deep red in tone. Same with the gunbarrel blood.

    From those caps, it seems like the color timing is reasonably consistent, though.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    LTK was a very grainy film in the cinema. Even Gene Siskel in his review pointed out how dirty the picture looked.

    I remembered that review, forgot of that comment about the dirtiness brought up. Makes sense.
    The only scenes in the cinema that evoked the old style Bond glamour were the casino sequences. Talisa's red dress really popped as did Carey's purple. The red filtered shot of Diana Lee Hsu in the titles was a very deep red in tone. Same with the gunbarrel blood.

    Good point. Unlike all the previous films, I initially had a hard time selecting screencaps for this one because I wasn't seeing as much of the usual Bond glamour when I actually tried looking for it all across. It's not a movie to pick for visually arresting vistas aside from brief moments like Bond taking a look around Sanchez's home, and even then that home is mostly bathed in pastels. It's a movie that pushes viewers more into the grime than Bond films ever did prior. By the end of the movie, I almost feel like Dalton after surviving the last explosion: weary. I suppose that's the intention, and John Glen had been wanting to make a harder Bond movie since FYEO and because Dalton was game for a grittier take they almost went a bit too extreme in 1989.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,153
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    LTK was a very grainy film in the cinema. Even Gene Siskel in his review pointed out how dirty the picture looked.

    I remembered that review, forgot of that comment about the dirtiness brought up. Makes sense.
    The only scenes in the cinema that evoked the old style Bond glamour were the casino sequences. Talisa's red dress really popped as did Carey's purple. The red filtered shot of Diana Lee Hsu in the titles was a very deep red in tone. Same with the gunbarrel blood.

    Good point. Unlike all the previous films, I initially had a hard time selecting screencaps for this one because I wasn't seeing as much of the usual Bond glamour when I actually tried looking for it all across. It's not a movie to pick for visually arresting vistas aside from brief moments like Bond taking a look around Sanchez's home, and even then that home is mostly bathed in pastels. It's a movie that pushes viewers more into the grime than Bond films ever did prior. By the end of the movie, I almost feel like Dalton after surviving the last explosion: weary. I suppose that's the intention, and John Glen had been wanting to make a harder Bond movie since FYEO and because Dalton was game for a grittier take they almost went a bit too extreme in 1989.

    Back in the '80's and '90's the Atlanta cable station TBS used to play old Cannon Chuck Norris, and Charles Bronson films. They always looked grainy and faded. I remember having a conversation with a friend discussing how LTK in the cinema actually looked like a grainy Charles Bronson movie as broadcast on TBS. Pretty accurate comparison.
    I love that about LTK.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited November 2019 Posts: 8,182
    Likening it to a Golan and Globus production seems spot on. For the tone of this film, I actually would have liked to see this shot by Jon de Bont. Still stylish enough for Bond but with a more noir-like quality. They already got Michael Kamen, might as well have gone for the guy who served as DP for both DIE HARD and LETHAL WEAPON.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Likening it to a Golan and Globus production seems spot on. For the tone of this film, I actually would have liked to see this shot by Jon de Bont. Still stylish enough for Bond but with a more noir-like quality. They already got Michael Kamen, might as well have gone for the guy who served as DP for both DIE HARD and LETHAL WEAPON.

    In my dream Bond 17, Jan de Bont would've been the cinematographer.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    The thing tha amazes me the most when I look at these screenshots ist how dazzling the explosion looks! Filling the whole screen with fire, and the truck coming right out off it! Yeah baby!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I can't wait to get the Craig collection on 4k.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    I can't wait to get the Craig collection on 4k.

    I'm sticking with the blu-rays after being unimpressed with CR and QoS on 4K, the two titles that mattered the most, but holy hell did SF look fantastic. I mean, the blu-ray was already great, but it somehow popped even more and was simply stunning. I'll definitely pick up a standalone version of that on 4K if it ever arrives.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I'm no expert, but the few films I've bought on 4k look fantastic. In my opinion.
    Even the ones on download from Amazon, I've been impressed with. I know there
    are many more expert in this medium than Me, But even Kingsman 1 & 2 look
    great.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    I'm no expert, but the few films I've bought on 4k look fantastic. In my opinion.
    Even the ones on download from Amazon, I've been impressed with. I know there
    are many more expert in this medium than Me, But even Kingsman 1 & 2 look
    great.

    The quality always varies. Some 4Ks are actually not as good in many ways compared to their blu-ray counterparts whereas others are huge improvements.

    Funny you mention Kingsman: The Golden Circle, as I think that was one of the best looking titles I've ever seen on the format.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I've been dipping my toe in the water with some 4k titles. I got both kingsman titles
    for well under £20. To see if it was worth buying the Craig collection
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    I've been dipping my toe in the water with some 4k titles. I got both kingsman titles
    for well under £20. To see if it was worth buying the Craig collection

    Like I said, every disc will end up different, so it's tough to judge other films based on particular ones you've seen. Give blu-ray.com a chance, they almost always review the newest 4K titles and go really in depth with the picture quality, audio quality, etc. It's typically a great indicator of how a new product fares.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Thanks I'll give it a look. I'm still very happy with standard Blu rays for most
    movies. It would only be Bond and a few favourites that I'd splash the cash on.
    Recently I've even been buying up DVDs of older series that I loved but can't seem
    to find. Like HUSTLE, SPOOKS, Banacek, The Rockfor files and Millinneum
    Given tech history, as soon as you've built up a 4k collection, You'll have to start a new 8k one
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    Too right, sadly. 4K is definitely nice, but nowhere near the upgrade that DVD to blu-ray had. I figure it'll only get so good, to the point that upgrading any further will be pointless. I think 4K will be the last bit of big upgrading I do - I've already started opting for some blu-rays over 4K, I don't see 8K (or whatever the next big thing is) being that much better. The human eye can only discern so much.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    To think there was a time when I was blown away with
    Widescreen VHS !
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    To think there was a time when I was blown away with
    Widescreen VHS !

    Right? "There's no way it'll ever get better than this!"
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    CR and QOS, along with a whole bunch of it’s contemporary movies that came out in the first decade of the 2000s, were not even mastered at true 4K, so the boost from blu-ray to 4K discs was always going to be underwhelming compared to movies that were mastered at 4K like SKYFALL, other recent blockbusters, and all films that came out before the advent of digital mastering.

    It’s a pity, because CR and QOS would have looked great if EON had spent a little more money on mastering them at 4K when they were in post-production. Instead they’ll forever be stuck where they are. It’s all in hindsight I suppose.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    I just ordered the UE DVD of GOLDENEYE on eBay, so we'll eventually see the full scope of how GE looked from its SE DVD all the way to the 4K. I decided not to do screencaps of the LD, because for the Brosnan era the LD and DVDs were based off the same exact transfers, so there's really no notable difference between the two other than what's inherent in the two formats. I will say though that the LD looked pretty fantastic. From what I read, it's basically reference quality for LD, which is no surprise as it came out during the format's final years. So if you ever wanted to see what LaserDisc looked like in its prime, then GE is really the one to look out for.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited November 2019 Posts: 4,043
    I gave my Craig 4K set a peak (it's gone away for Christmas now) and while I'm not seeing anything like night and day. I found CR to definitely look more impressive, QOS not as much as an upgrade but still looks better and SF looks gorgeous.

    SPECTRE I didn't bother with.

    I'll let you know when I've watched them around Christmas what I thought. I'm planning to watch CR & QOS before my Bridge Water Hall screening of SF in Concert on 29/12/19.

  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,753
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I just ordered the UE DVD of GOLDENEYE on eBay, so we'll eventually see the full scope of how GE looked from its SE DVD all the way to the 4K.

    Let me know if you need screencaps from any of the other UE DVD's @MakeshiftPython!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I just ordered the UE DVD of GOLDENEYE on eBay, so we'll eventually see the full scope of how GE looked from its SE DVD all the way to the 4K.

    Let me know if you need screencaps from any of the other UE DVD's @MakeshiftPython!

    Thanks! If you could do screencaps of OHMSS that would do great!

    Here's a link so you know which ones specifically: https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/comment/1030193/#Comment_1030193
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    edited November 2019 Posts: 16,153
    Looking forward to GE. I remember the early SE DVD transfer looking similar to the widescreen VHS in terms of color and brightness. Those early versions were much brighter than the film prints.
    The gunbarrel blood in the cinema for GE was darker than the other Brosnan's. More maroon than red. All home video versions I've seen from VHS to Blu-ray have brightened the blood considerably. I wonder if the 4K restores the original film version?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    I’ll have to include the gun barrel for comparison for sure. Overall impression is that it looks like the much needed improvement to the blu-ray with more natural skin tones, it’s framed almost like the SE DVD as the blu was very slightly cropped (not as dramatic as the UE DVD). I never thought the blu-ray as as terrible as many remarked, but it was below the standard of other Bond titles. It’s not a dramatic leap from blu to 4K, but it’s just nice to get a proper looking presentation.
  • bondbat007bondbat007
    Posts: 1,407
    Been checking out the Amazon Prime 4k stuff. Some is really good (OHMSS and Moonraker look fantastic). Others aren't as smooth (TMWTGG is very grainy). But it's been cool to see them so far
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    If you thought that was grainy, just get a load of LTK. It’s almost like watching a celluloid projection, for better or worse. It suits the film, but I can imagine it turning off anyone that wants a clean image.
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