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Thanks for that. We've been having an interesting discussion about issues related to Islam. You're welcome to join in anytime you want to.
I think you are raising a lot of trees to hide the forest, at least when it comes to the attack on CH, the Danish cartoons and the Islamic militantism in Western democracies. I am not saying that economy or geopolitical motivations cannot explain certain types of terrorism, even Islamic terrorism. But at the core of Islamic terrorism is a particular faith and a brutal rejection of Western secular values. The 9/11 perpetrators were middle to upper middle class. The Canadian terrorists last October were middle class (and one was as White as they come). Al Qaeda has apparently now replaced the USA by France as the Great Satan, at least according to some of its spokesmen. Because France is now exploiting more the Middle East? No, because France is far more secular and far more openly secular. Case in point: they mock religions and defend those who do.
As I've said on more than one occassion, my comments were more to do with Islamist terrorism and sympathizers, rather than CH or the Danish murders (I have hardly commented on the Danish situation).
At the end of the day I don't think any of us really know the motivations of these particular brand of lunatics.
The common thread is that they happen to be Islamic, and they also happen to be targetting citizens of Western countries that either have military entanglements in the Middle East (where every country other than Israel is Islamic), or support military entanglements in the Middle East, or support repressive regimes and kingdoms in the Middle East.
I know Islamic people who openly reject Western secular values and think of the west as decadent. I know people of other faiths who feel the same way. None of these people are murderers though. So that in itself is not the cause of the killings imo.
It may not be coincidence. However, you have to then explain and consider the remainder of the sentence, namely: "they also happen to be targetting citizens of Western countries that either have military entanglements in the Middle East (where every country other than Israel is Islamic), or support military entanglements in the Middle East, or support repressive regimes and kingdoms in the Middle East."
So it may not be coincidence. There is correlation certainly. There may also be causation. I don't know.
The other implication that one could make, which is a far more dangerous one, is that the 99.999999% of muslims who are not murderers are also potential murderers and should also be feared. I am not willing to make that implication.
Michelle is a great first lady.
And to just blame Obama for not showing up is a wee bit one sided, as in Arabia there was also a large group of Republican heavies.
You can just state that the US does not care about the freedom of speech in Europe as it is not their problem. We should just remember that next time something awefull happens in the US.
This is the common thread, therefore unlikely to be incidental. Western meddling in the Middle East can hardly be a motivation for killing cartoonists, especially not left-leaning ones. Or trying to murder a writer like Salman Rushdie. Their "crime" was blasphemy. Women and gays in London being threatened by Islamists on a Saturday night out also have nothing to do with whatever their government does in the Middle East. Again, their "crime" is living freely in a Western democracy.
So the implication of your points are that Islam is bad then? I just need to clarify what you're saying. Islam is 'evil'. Is that the jist?
If anyone feels that any religion has bad ideas within it, then it is their right to express their views.
I find this view somewhat problematic personally, given the sheer number and proportion of peaceful muslims compared to the number of murderers of that faith, but we'll agree to have a different point of view on this.
So should I fear interaction with people of muslim faith then?
Of course not. It is islam that is a problem and intrinsically evil. Most people are not, whatever they call themselves. It is the arrogance of ignorance you should fear.
I consider every religion to be "evil", but this is not what I meant and it is not what I'm saying regarding this particular issue and before I go forward here is a disclaimer: 1)I am not saying that all Muslims/religious people are evil because their religion (like every religion) is superstitious and has not met its burden of proof 2)I am not saying there cannot be good people among Muslims, or Christians, etc.
What I am saying is that the core motivation of Islamist terrorist is religious devotion against what they consider blasphemy and/or decadence. You can have terrorism motivated by economic or national ideologies, but this is not the root of the problem here. Islamism is a religious ideology.
I agree with that. However, I believe it is not only religious, but cultural. There is a common cultural thread binding these killers. There is also a common anger. They are mainly young, angry men.
Some distinction is required however. The majority of the murders commited in the name of Islam are done by Sunni muslims. Mainly Arab. Not Shia. Not Ismaili either. Even then, it is a very small minority (far lower than .1%). I don't know if that is statistically significant. However, their impact is definitely significant, and damaging the reputation of the other 99.9%.
As for the killers being mainly young men, that is the case for most soldiers. These nuts are soldiers for Allah.
I have had very disturbing conversations with born again (new testament) Christians in North America. So I don't believe this to be a muslim only issue. It's not correct to make that distinction. If someone is deeply religious (of any faith) they are bound to be irrational when it comes to some of the more irreconcilable aspects of their faith. My point is that does not make them murderers, or more likely to be murderers. Just irrational about their faith.
I can't comment on this, but I have met some very open minded, very calm and peaceful Muslim people who are deeply religious and I have met similarly deeply Christian and peaceful people. I have also met the opposite from both religious groups.
I guess the difference is that I am not willing to go so far as to single out Islam as being particularly restrictive, because there are many interpretations of Islam, by far the most restrictive (yes, more so than Iran by far) being the practice in Saudi Arabia, America's and the west's friend.
If Stephen Green from Christian Voice had the same popular backup as some imams, there would be some adulterous women and many British homosexuals executed publicly. I would probably have been tortured for blasphemy because of a few posts on my blog. But he does not have the same popular backup. Most Christians consider him a wacko with zero credibility, moral or otherwise, a British Fred Phelps. This is the only difference, but it would be foolish to ignore it.
I think one must look to why that minority continues to be able to recruit new followers to its cause. What excuses can it use to increase enrollment, and how can that be prevented.
I propose that it is not only CH that made the murderers do what they did. I think CH was an added excuse - there is seething resentment among this vocal, dangerous radical element and it is not only regarding secularism. It is deeper than that. Anger is poisonous, whether one is religious or not.
If you keep on blaming the victims of the terrorist attacks, I think you fear nothing from them, nothing at all. Maybe it's the deep reason of your attitude actually...
Me I fear nothin from them either (I worked on Qatar and EAU, and I wasn't afraid - but well I definitely kept for myself I was an atheist, call me a coward if you want, but well I was there, I was not on some forum), but I don't need to blame others for that.