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"Asked if acts of violence against those who publish images of the Prophet Muhammad can "never be justified", 68% agreed that such violence was never justifiable."
So 32% refused to say that violence can never be justified. That is a chilling figure IMHO.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31293196
As I've said before, I'm trying to be objective (to find solutions), but I don't for one minute condone the behaviour of these repressive nations. I can't stand it personally. I'm all for freedom of expression in all forms.
However, our support on this forum is practically not going to get that man anywhere. We all know Saudi Arabia is a repressive regime.
Unlike Communist China 26 years ago, when the western governments were making a big fuss, no western government is going to say anything now if they (Communist China) repressed anything today - because we are in trading cahoots with them. We weren't back then. Witness the muted reaction to demonstrations in Hong Kong recently.
The same applies to Saudi Arabia. They are currently instrumental in keeping the oil prices down to get Europe out of its economic funk. That economic funk was created by no other than the United States of America itself - as the European project only underwent stress after the 2008 debt crisis caused by the US. So Saudi Arabia is currently a friend and is helping western economies. Look at the number of leaders in that post I made earlier with the Saudi king.
Believe me, I get your point. However, I believe concerned western citizens should take the fight to their governments first, and stop them from supporting and condoning these almost medieval regimes, irrespective of the inevitable economic costs to each of us of speaking up against them. Only then will we see real change over there.
I posted the Obama bow for a reason. To make a point that we are condoning this behaviour through our goverments. We should not. Governments have more say in this than a few people on a forum. We should lobby them to change their behaviour towards these people.
As an example, Tony Blair was on tv a few weeks back speaking highly of the recently deceased Saudi King. Obama personally went to his funeral. He did not come to Paris.
Good for you @patb. More people need to do more like you.
Our connections are financial (in the multi-$bns). That's the problem. We have the same links with China now too.
Whether he broke the law or not is beside the point: the law he broke and its punishment are barbaric. A woman showing too much leg in Islamic countries breaks the law too. Same for an adulteress
This is pretty obvious, but stating it over and over again on these forums is not going to change anything. They've been that way for years. They have no incentive to change.
Until we stop condoning and supporting this barbarism, it will continue.
@patb is on the right track. More should do what he is doing. Collectively and individually. There will be a huge economic cost to us though, so it will be like pulling teeth to get any government to do anything.
We increasingly live in a corporatist society so money talks first and foremost.
It's in french but I think the images speak for themselves.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/is-looted-syrian-art-showing-up-in-london-to-fund-activities/2015/02/25/785ab630-bcd0-11e4-b274-e5209a3bc9a9_story.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02kvzz6
Selling looted antiquities in London to fund their war.
This just about sums up the twisted hypocracy of IS! They soon appear if their version of the Koran is commented upon by violence! Yet to blatantly destroy a countries historic artefacts and post them is alright?
I hope this influences anyone who is deluded enough to consider joining them to think again!
Sickening. Obscurantist.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/27/american-atheist-blogger-hacked-to-death-in-bangladesh
Not actually a secret, there's all kinds of stuff from war regionson the market that funds guys withnasty attitude and guns, lots of it sold by London's high street auctioneers. To honourable customers of course.
As was Gaddafi it appears, based on the 3rd leg that has recently opened up in Libya.
I still remember Sarkozy and Cameron proudly ushering in democracy in Benghazi in 2011.......we're a far cry from that now sadly.
Obama, wisely, stayed away from that one.
I know. Crazy what we are doing. Makes you nostalgic for people like Kissinger!
Great article in the LRB recently about Hillary Clinton and how awful her foreign policy track record is. Sadly, most Repuplicans would doubtless only be just as bad:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n03/jackson-lears/we-came-we-saw-he-died
Still, I guess it's currently small fry to the catastophes that Europe helped bring about with WW1 and WW2. The rest of the world must look at our preaching and see us the most monumental hypocrites.
I don't see it working out at all no matter the time. Would be fantastic if it did, I'd be all for it. It just doesn't, not now, not tomorrow and far as I can tell not ever. If history teaches anything obviously it's that whatever they try to achieve with intervening blows up right our faces.
https://ca.movies.yahoo.com/news/westboro-baptist-church-s-plan-to-picket-leonard-nimoy-s-funeral-foiled-140651690.html
The ones who objected to the Vilks video in the theatre are not, to my knowledge, murderers. They took offense to a video. There's a big difference there too...
It is zealotry that is the problem, whatever the persuasion. Even non-religious zealotry is a problem.
The fact that it's a killing or is racist or is bigotted has the same effect to me. There are many atheist killers as well as religious killers.
It is the uncompromising extremism of one's viewpoint that leads to this kind of thing, whatever the nonsense one holds onto to justify it. Uncompromising extremism comes in all forms, not just religious.
If we are really open to free speech, then people should be free to worship their religion, as long as they don't hurt others. Those that do are first and foremost murderers. It is not appropriate to chastise an entire religion, which some have advocated here. In fact, it's illogical.
World War 1 was not primarily a religious war to my knowledge. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Absolutely right.
Religion, due to the illogical nature of some of its aspects, is more susceptible to perversion, no doubt, especially if one takes all aspects literally.
I posted the above link because they were having a go at the late Nimoy, who epitomized logic and common sense over passion in his character, Spock. The irony is chilling.