CharlieHebdo

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  • Posts: 15,105
    FYI, the author of the attack in France seems to be once again someone with a fulltime job, he was not the richest of France obviously, but not the poor lone wolf with a grudge against society as the dreaded "everything is explained by economics nowadays" theory goes, to dismiss the responsability of religion...

    Like in Canada, the "lone wolves" were middle class.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    The Canadian killer, Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, was arrested numerous times before his death, including for fraud, theft, assault and possession of a dangerous weapon and also for robbery. 3 years before his death, he was living in British Columbia’s Lower Mainland, puffing on crack pipes. He spent time sleeping at the local Salvation Army. He was not born a Muslim, but rather, converted to Islam. He said that "he has to fight the injustice of foreign intervention in Muslim regions"

    The other Canadian killer, Martin Couture-Rouleau, had a power washing business that collapsed. Shortly thereafter he converted to Islam too. He had indicated "disgust that Canada supported the American bombing of ISIS in Syria and Iraq"

    The French killer from today (or should I say beheader), Yassin Salhi, is a transport company truck delivery operator who reportedly was suspected of "ties to the Salafist movement. The religious movement promotes returning to a "pure" form of Islam, and the religious-political ideology Salafi jihadism is a branch of the group that supports violent jihadwas" according to French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve . I am not yet aware if he was born Muslim or had later converted, like the Canadians.

    Sadly for him, there is a Morrocan football player with the same name as today's killer.
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 15,105
    bondjames wrote: »
    The Canadian killer, Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, was arrested numerous times before his death, including for fraud, theft, assault and possession of a dangerous weapon and also for robbery. 3 years before his death, he was living in British Columbia’s Lower Mainland, puffing on crack pipes. He spent time sleeping at the local Salvation Army. He was not born a Muslim, but rather, converted to Islam. He said that "he has to fight the injustice of foreign intervention in Muslim regions"

    The other Canadian killer, Martin Couture-Rouleau, had a power washing business that collapsed. Shortly thereafter he converted to Islam too. He had indicated "disgust that Canada supported the American bombing of ISIS in Syria and Iraq"

    The French killer from today (or should I say beheader), Yassin Salhi, is a transport company truck delivery operator who reportedly was suspected of "ties to the Salafist movement. The religious movement promotes returning to a "pure" form of Islam, and the religious-political ideology Salafi jihadism is a branch of the group that supports violent jihadwas" according to French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve . I am not yet aware if he was born Muslim or had later converted, like the Canadians.

    Sadly for him, there is a Morrocan football player with the same name as today's killer.

    Hardly poor misunderstood victims. People get bankrupted every day, they don't become killers.

    There is no easy solution, let alone miraculous ones, against Islam. But we need to stand for secular society against theocrats of all faiths.

    On the plus side, some good news: marriage equality has now been accepted by the US Supreme Court, in spite of the whining of the religious right. It may not be related, but yet it kind of is. However the forces of obscurantism, civilization and freedom can overcome.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The Canadian killer, Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, was arrested numerous times before his death, including for fraud, theft, assault and possession of a dangerous weapon and also for robbery. 3 years before his death, he was living in British Columbia’s Lower Mainland, puffing on crack pipes. He spent time sleeping at the local Salvation Army. He was not born a Muslim, but rather, converted to Islam. He said that "he has to fight the injustice of foreign intervention in Muslim regions"

    The other Canadian killer, Martin Couture-Rouleau, had a power washing business that collapsed. Shortly thereafter he converted to Islam too. He had indicated "disgust that Canada supported the American bombing of ISIS in Syria and Iraq"

    The French killer from today (or should I say beheader), Yassin Salhi, is a transport company truck delivery operator who reportedly was suspected of "ties to the Salafist movement. The religious movement promotes returning to a "pure" form of Islam, and the religious-political ideology Salafi jihadism is a branch of the group that supports violent jihadwas" according to French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve . I am not yet aware if he was born Muslim or had later converted, like the Canadians.

    Sadly for him, there is a Morrocan football player with the same name as today's killer.

    Hardly poor misunderstood victims. People get bankrupted every day, they don't become killers.

    There is no easy solution, let alone miraculous ones, against Islam. But we need to stand for secular society against theocrats of all faiths.

    On the plus side, some good news: marriage equality has now been accepted by the US Supreme Court, in spite of the whining of the religious right. It may not be related, but yet it kind of is. However the forces of obscurantism, civilization and freedom can overcome.

    I'm not suggesting bankruptcy made these folks killers. However, I wouldn't say these 3 are "middle class" (at least not where I come from).

    The two Canadians were obviously mentally disturbed and associated with drugs too. We need to learn more about the Frenchman and his motivations.

    I agree about the secular stand, but it's not going to be easy against Islam, or Judaism, or Christianity or any other religion for that matter. Folks who are deeply religious are 'wed' to it, and it deeply influences their worldview, although I find it interesting that some of the killers have adopted the radical form of Islam rather than being born into the religion. ISIS sure are drawing people to their fundamental ideology.

    Agree also on the Supreme Court decision. Good news indeed and long overdue.
  • Posts: 15,105
    If I am not mistaken, they were both from middle class families. Yes they were mentally ill. Still chilling that their madness was channeled through Islam.
  • Posts: 4,603
    Listen to the stuff coming from DC, "we will stand together" etc etc but noting hard about what we as a country can do both on the short and long term.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    ISIS is one of the wealthiest organizations around, and they have super rich sponsors.

    Just look at the amount of sophisticated weaponry and vehicles of all kinds, civil and military, that they are provided with. The logistics are better than those of Hitler on his way into Russia.

    Where do they get all that stuff? Why is that not an issue?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    French media are reporting that the french terrorist took a selfie with the decapitated head and sent the picture to a North American contact.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2015 Posts: 18,264
    French media are reporting that the french terrorist took a selfie with the decapitated head and sent the picture to a North American contact.

    The face of terrorist crassness in all its gory glory in the 21st century. Nothing surprises me any more. It really doesn't. :(
  • Posts: 15,105
    Bomb alert in Charles De Gaulle.

    But apparently, there's nothing wrong with Islam. No siree.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Bomb alert in Charles De Gaulle.

    But apparently, there's nothing wrong with Islam. No siree.

    When will this madness end?! Stop the dithering world leaders and WAKE UP!
  • Posts: 15,105
    Je suis Charlie. Because it is still relevant.
  • Posts: 15,105
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Bomb alert in Charles De Gaulle.

    But apparently, there's nothing wrong with Islam. No siree.

    When will this madness end?! Stop the dithering world leaders and WAKE UP!

    I think some radical actions may need to be taken, but that will get things very ugly. One can only hope that Islamists will tired of being obscurantist and backwards. Because there is no compromise possible.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Bomb alert in Charles De Gaulle.

    But apparently, there's nothing wrong with Islam. No siree.

    When will this madness end?! Stop the dithering world leaders and WAKE UP!

    Any attack in France does not surprise me in the slightest. They have declared war on ISIS and are actively participating in strikes, so reprisals are to be expected. I mentioned that some time ago. Such reprisals will be unannounced and asymmetrical. The US, UK & Canada can expect the same.

    This is the cost of foreign entanglement. It will get worse and there will be a serious attack at some point, that is for certain.

    There is no way to prevent these attacks from within except to impose draconian policies, which will restrict freedoms of nearly everyone. The US has been wrestling with this since 911 but at least it is an isolated (relatively speaking) place. The UK is as well to an extent, but less so. France is not, as part of the Schengen Area.

    That is why I had some problems with the leader's march at the start of this year in support of CH on the streets of Paris. While some saw it as marching in solidarity with the victims (je suis Charlie etc.), the terrorists may have seen it as similar to Bush's "bring em on!".....e.g an invitation to the terrorists to up the ante. I really think Obama and Kerry stayed away for that reason.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Terrorists do not need any excuses to carry out atrocities, especially these Islamists so the West will continue to be a target irrespective of how they decide to act against Islamic State.
  • Posts: 4,603
    I got chatting to a family who are due to go on hols in Tunisia in a few weeks, they are trying to cancel and bitterly complaining about the fact they cant get a full refund. By doing so, the terrorists win and Tunisia and ourselves loose. I reminded them of Thatcher's response to terrorism when she was bombed but that did not go down well. We seem to be very much on the back foot and the rubbish that DC came out with this morning confirms that.
  • Posts: 15,105
    bondjames wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Bomb alert in Charles De Gaulle.

    But apparently, there's nothing wrong with Islam. No siree.

    When will this madness end?! Stop the dithering world leaders and WAKE UP!

    Any attack in France does not surprise me in the slightest. They have declared war on ISIS and are actively participating in strikes, so reprisals are to be expected. I mentioned that some time ago. Such reprisals will be unannounced and asymmetrical. The US, UK & Canada can expect the same.

    This is the cost of foreign entanglement. It will get worse and there will be a serious attack at some point, that is for certain.

    There is no way to prevent these attacks from within except to impose draconian policies, which will restrict freedoms of nearly everyone. The US has been wrestling with this since 911 but at least it is an isolated (relatively speaking) place. The UK is as well to an extent, but less so. France is not, as part of the Schengen Area.

    That is why I had some problems with the leader's march at the start of this year in support of CH on the streets of Paris. While some saw it as marching in solidarity with the victims (je suis Charlie etc.), the terrorists may have seen it as similar to Bush's "bring em on!".....e.g an invitation to the terrorists to up the ante. I really think Obama and Kerry stayed away for that reason.

    I like Obama and everything but he shouldn't have stayed away. He should have marched. There's no compromise that can be reasonable for an Islamist except the complete obliteration of our freedom.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    In principle you're right of course. In practice, we are well on our way to losing our freedom. It's very difficult to fight any asymmetrical threat intent on creating mayhem without compromising a free society's liberty for all practical purposes.

    I think he stayed away so as not to antagonize or create a lightning rod for those with grievances. I just think it was smart.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,244
    bondjames wrote: »
    In principle you're right of course. In practice, we are well on our way to losing our freedom. It's very difficult to fight any asymmetrical threat intent on creating mayhem without compromising a free society's liberty for all practical purposes.

    I think he stayed away so as not to antagonize or create a lightning rod for those with grievances. I just think it was smart.

    If you ask me, the main problem is we're not going on full war mode, but instead throw a few bombs and hope the Kurds will solve this (without, obviously, starting their own country, 'cos of geopolitics etc.).
    @Thunderfinger, that's another question with an easy answer. they have oil, they have hostages, and they have radical oil-rich backers who have little education, sense of the world etc. but love it when the West is attacked. Don't forget that Osama had all he had because of the West and it's oil-driven economy.
    ISIS is as extreme, or perhaps even worse, then the NAZI's were. Then we said 'this never no more', but indeed are we willing to go out in a full attack? Staying in the middle east for decades to come before leaving like in Japan (or the US in Europe for that matter)? nope. So, as long as we keep on meddling and throwing bombs and pretend we're not into it too much we still let these beasts do their inhumane thing. And yes, that means they will keep on attacking with these terrorist actions. Until their extremist organisation is completely eradicated.
  • Dragonpol wrote: »
    Terrorists do not need any excuses to carry out atrocities, especially these Islamists so the West will continue to be a target irrespective of how they decide to act against Islamic State.

    They are not looking for excuses, but some others give excuses for them, for fear of being called racists or islamophobic or antisemitic, etc...


  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Terrorists do not need any excuses to carry out atrocities, especially these Islamists so the West will continue to be a target irrespective of how they decide to act against Islamic State.

    They are not looking for excuses, but some others give excuses for them, for fear of being called racists or islamophobic or antisemitic, etc...


    Indeed, political correctness has its inherent dangers too. Just look at the recent case of Rotherham:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11057647/Rotherham-sex-abuse-scandal-1400-children-exploited-by-Asian-gangs-while-authorities-turned-a-blind-eye.html
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Terrorists do not need any excuses to carry out atrocities, especially these Islamists so the West will continue to be a target irrespective of how they decide to act against Islamic State.

    They are not looking for excuses, but some others give excuses for them, for fear of being called racists or islamophobic or antisemitic, etc...


    Indeed, political correctness has its inherent dangers too. Just look at the recent case of Rotherham:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11057647/Rotherham-sex-abuse-scandal-1400-children-exploited-by-Asian-gangs-while-authorities-turned-a-blind-eye.html

    ISIS is a well funded organization, created as a by-product of Western power's (similar to Al Qaeda interestingly, which came about from the anti-Soviet Mujahideen) foreign policy dalliances.

    They certainly don't need an excuse to carry out attacks, but they have been given more than enough excuses.

    As I said, France, UK, US, Canada & Australia (in that order imho) are likely to be attacked going forward. So is the Netherlands (on account of Wilders and participation in strikes).

    Due to the fact that they are on the European continent and part of Schengen, France/Netherlands are most likely to receive further attacks imho. US/Canada/UK/Australia are a little less likely due to their relative isolation, despite their involvement in strikes. A lot of Canada's current foreign policy perspective/point of view is on account of the current Govt, which is especially right wing for that country, from an historical perspective. The US only needs to be concerned about another major attack (as opposed to the lone-wolf acts) after the next election in 2016 (no matter who wins).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Iceland has now removed their blasphemy laws.

    The proposal came from the Pirate Party directly after the Paris murders, and was recently approved in parliament.
  • Posts: 15,105
    Iceland has now removed their blasphemy laws.

    The proposal came from the Pirate Party directly after the Paris murders, and was recently approved in parliament.

    Great news. Although i wouldn't mock Odin.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Iceland has now removed their blasphemy laws.

    The proposal came from the Pirate Party directly after the Paris murders, and was recently approved in parliament.

    Great news. Although i wouldn't mock Odin.

    He'd send his son to hammer you into the ground.

  • Posts: 15,105
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Iceland has now removed their blasphemy laws.

    The proposal came from the Pirate Party directly after the Paris murders, and was recently approved in parliament.

    Great news. Although i wouldn't mock Odin.

    He'd send his son to hammer you into the ground.

    Gotta give it to the old gods, they torment humans in style! Zeus was great at it too.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Ludovico wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Iceland has now removed their blasphemy laws.

    The proposal came from the Pirate Party directly after the Paris murders, and was recently approved in parliament.

    Great news. Although i wouldn't mock Odin.

    He'd send his son to hammer you into the ground.

    Gotta give it to the old gods, they torment humans in style! Zeus was great at it too.

    They were a violent bunch, that said I would not mind a wee bit of Aphrodite.
    :\">
  • Posts: 15,105
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Iceland has now removed their blasphemy laws.

    The proposal came from the Pirate Party directly after the Paris murders, and was recently approved in parliament.

    Great news. Although i wouldn't mock Odin.

    He'd send his son to hammer you into the ground.

    Gotta give it to the old gods, they torment humans in style! Zeus was great at it too.

    They were a violent bunch, that said I would not mind a wee bit of Aphrodite.
    :\">

    You know where the word venereal disease comes from?

    Still, I have to give it to Zeus and the other Olympians, they never cared much about morality. They sent everyone to Hades, good or bad, no matter what they had done, whether they had worshiped him or not, and they spent eternity as shadows (unless you had done either extraordinary deeds or particularly atrocious crimes). They cursed a whole city with plague because its king had committed incest with his mother and committed parricide, even though the poor guy had no idea he had done so. And in Euripides' Medea, Zeus is the puppeteer who pushes the title character to murder her own children.

    Okay I am getting off topic. Or maybe not.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    CH says they will never publish a Muhammad cartoon again. They have done their part and now it is up to others.

    Bravo, muslim terrorists!
  • Posts: 15,105
    CH says they will never publish a Muhammad cartoon again. They have done their part and now it is up to others.

    Bravo, muslim terrorists!

    Well, they sure have done their part. What matters now is that we all do not self-censor.

    And thus, this is Mohammed: :-(
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