No Time To Die: Production Diary

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Comments

  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,790
    Well, how CASINO ROYALE then QUANTUM OF SOLACE then SKYFALL played out won't be repeated then.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    880.7 million USD isn't bad. I'm sure Bond 25 will do excellent.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    bondjames wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    what are the odds they bring up the release of B25 by a few months?
    Or push it back.

    My prediction is that B25 will not make SP money, inflation adjusted. Hold me to it.

    I agree. I don't see it happening either. SP just about made $200M domestic after 5 and a half month theatrical run but with Wonder Woman, Episode IX and Black Panther coming out in December and February respectively not to mention what else is coming out, it doesnt matter if this is billed as Craig's last; this isnt going to be a walk in the park BO wise and it sire as hell ain't gonna be making SF numbers. Obviously it would be great if it did such numbers but the likelihood is, we get a respectable BO figure circa $700million but most importsntly a great Bond film to cherish.
    Yes, I agree. Even without the competition, people seem to forget that SP rode out of the blocks on the tremendous goodwill of SF. The last film wasn't all that well received critically (despite applause in some markets) and so after four years, I can't see massive enthusiasm for this one going into 2019. SW and WW will have the buzz, the former due to a massive marketing campaign, and the latter due to organic excitement for the sequel to a blockbuster 2017 hit.

    I believe only hardcore fans care about whether this film is Craig's last. Out there in the general market (which is what will make up the bulk of the major box office), I don't think people are all that interested.

    Not to mention there are many people who are still salty about the slash my wrist comments even though the context was obvious and Craig has explained on numerous occasions. Fyi I edited my original post re: black panther. I confused the year, that's out Feb 2018 not 2020. Had it been 2020 then SF numbers would have unequivocally been out of the question.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Well, how CASINO ROYALE then QUANTUM OF SOLACE then SKYFALL played out won't be repeated then.
    I knew someone would bring that up. No, I don't see that playing out again and I hope the producers don't hope for that scenario, because they are likely to be disappointed. I think the party's run its course and it won't perform to the same level as either of the last two films.

    Having said that, it will do very well. Between CR and SP numbers (inflation adjusted) globally.

    EDIT:
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Not to mention there are many people who are still salty about the slash my wrist comments even though the context was obvious and Craig has explained on numerous occasions.
    I quite agree. As I've said before, it wasn't the comment so much as the abysmal way they let it play without shutting it down for almost two years.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 4,619
    You keep demanding to see what ColonelSun has worked on, I'd like to know what makes you think you'd be so qualified to do a better job in BB's shoes other than your time spent on internet forums.
    I keep asking ColonelSun what he has worked on becasue he keeps telling us he is a screenwriter.
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Bond films are under huge pressure to deliver - and it's bloody hard, especially after 24 official films over 50 years.
    Finding competent screewriters and getting them to deliver a decent, 120-140 page long Bond script within 1.5 years is not hard, in fact it's one of the easiest thing in the world. Or at least it should be. Apparently it isn't for BB and MGW.
    I'm amazed they have such trouble coming up with a decent script.
    This is exactly the key issue. It seems that BB and MGW are doing a pretty good job running the ship during filming and post-production, but they nearly always mess up pre-production, and especially the screenplay development. The BB+MGW era has 8 movies so far, out of those eight I would say only GE, CR and SF have decent scripts. That's a pretty bad track record.
    Why they don't have people already working on scripts for 2 films down the line so that when the time comes they are in decent shape is beyond me.
    Well said! Every time a Bond film premieres, BB & MGW say they need some rest before starting working on the next one, and then absolutely nothing gets done in the next at least 6 months. Why can't they just hire a screenwriter first, who would work on the screenplay while they are on holiday for 6 months?
    peter wrote: »
    Making films, especially modern films, is a logistic nightmare...
    That's just deflection. We are talking about the screenplay development. Hiring the right people, and getting them to deliver you a decent 120-140 sparse pages in 1.5 years should NOT be a logistic nightmare.
    peter wrote: »
    Go and write that script;
    I am not blaming the screenwriters here. I am blaming the people who simply needed to hire screenwiters and get them deliver a decent script in 1.5 years.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    You keep demanding to see what ColonelSun has worked on, I'd like to know what makes you think you'd be so qualified to do a better job in BB's shoes other than your time spent on internet forums.
    I keep asking ColonelSun what he has worked on becasue he keeps telling us he is a screenwriter.
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Bond films are under huge pressure to deliver - and it's bloody hard, especially after 24 official films over 50 years.
    Finding competent screewriters and getting them to deliver a decent, 120-140 page long Bond script within 1.5 years is not hard, in fact it's one of the easiest thing in the world. Or at least it should be. Apparently it isn't for BB and MGW.
    I'm amazed they have such trouble coming up with a decent script.
    This is exactly the key issue. It seems that BB and MGW are doing a pretty good job running the ship during filming and post-production, but they nearly always mess up pre-production, and especially the screenplay development. The BB+MGW era has 8 movies so far, out of those eight I would say only GE, CR and SF have decent scripts. That's a pretty bad track record.
    Why they don't have people already working on scripts for 2 films down the line so that when the time comes they are in decent shape is beyond me.
    Well said! Every time a Bond film premieres, BB & MGW say they need some rest before starting working on the next one, and then absolutely nothing gets done in the next at least 6 months. Why can't they just hire a screenwriter first, who would work on the screenplay while they are on holiday for 6 months?
    peter wrote: »
    Making films, especially modern films, is a logistic nightmare...
    That's just deflection. We are talking about the screenplay development. Hiring the right people, and getting them to deliver you a decent 120-140 sparse pages in 1.5 years should NOT be a logistic nightmare.
    peter wrote: »
    Go and write that script;
    I am not blaming the screenwriters here. I am blaming the people who simply needed to hire screenwiters and get them deliver a decent script in 1.5 years.

    I note you've slyly retreated to this now being purely about 'script development' and no longer about half the forums ability to do a better job of producing than Barbara, so maybe you aren't quite as belligerent as you appear.

    It would do you well to listen to those who have experience and expertise; you might even learn a thing or two.

    You keep taking about hiring screenwriters to write a 'good' script being the easiest thing in the world. For producers, screenwriters, directors... this is laughably naive. Guess what... you could get Aaron Sorkin to write 'the greatest Bond screenplay ever written' and it still wouldn't make it to screen in anywhere near the shape it started. That's the nature of the beast.
  • Posts: 4,619
    RC7 wrote: »
    I note you've slyly retreated to this now being purely about 'script development' and no longer about half the forums ability to do a better job of producing than Barbara, so maybe you aren't quite as belligerent as you appear.

    Are you off your meds? I NEVER wrote half the forum would do a better job of producing than BB. I wrote "a large percentage", and considering what we are talking about (Bond fans being better at producing a Bon film than BB+MGW or not), 30 or even just 20% can be considered large. Btw, I absolutely still maintain that a large percentage of people regularly posting here would do a better job at producing Bond 25 or any Bond film.

    As for retreating "to this now being purely about 'script development'", it was ALWAYS about script development and issues related to that (like making specific arrengements related to filming while the script is still being written, and not just polished).
    RC7 wrote: »
    You keep taking about hiring screenwriters to write a 'good' script being the easiest thing in the world.
    It really is. Nolan can write AND direct AND produce a pretty damn good movie every two years. Now that is difficult. Why can't BB+MGW hire competent writers and get them write a decent script in 1.5 years?
  • Posts: 1,490
    RC7 wrote: »
    I note you've slyly retreated to this now being purely about 'script development' and no longer about half the forums ability to do a better job of producing than Barbara, so maybe you aren't quite as belligerent as you appear.

    Are you off your meds? I NEVER wrote half the forum would do a better job of producing than BB. I wrote "a large percentage", and considering what we are talking about (Bond fans being better at producing a Bon film than BB+MGW or not), 30 or even just 20% can be considered large. Btw, I absolutely still maintain that a large percentage of people regularly posting here would do a better job at producing Bond 25 or any Bond film.

    As for retreating "to this now being purely about 'script development'", it was ALWAYS about script development and issues related to that (like making specific arrengements related to filming while the script is still being written, and not just polished).
    RC7 wrote: »
    You keep taking about hiring screenwriters to write a 'good' script being the easiest thing in the world.
    It really is. Nolan can write AND direct AND produce a pretty damn good movie every two years. Now that is difficult. Why can't BB+MGW hire competent writers and get them write a decent script in 1.5 years?

    Are you now claiming someone like Jez Butterworth is not a competent writer?

  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    RC7 wrote: »
    I note you've slyly retreated to this now being purely about 'script development' and no longer about half the forums ability to do a better job of producing than Barbara, so maybe you aren't quite as belligerent as you appear.

    Are you off your meds? I NEVER wrote half the forum would do a better job of producing than BB. I wrote "a large percentage", and considering what we are talking about (Bond fans being better at producing a Bon film than BB+MGW or not), 30 or even just 20% can be considered large. Btw, I absolutely still maintain that a large percentage of people regularly posting here would do a better job at producing Bond 25 or any Bond film.

    As for retreating "to this now being purely about 'script development'", it was ALWAYS about script development and issues related to that (like making specific arrengements related to filming while the script is still being written, and not just polished).
    RC7 wrote: »
    You keep taking about hiring screenwriters to write a 'good' script being the easiest thing in the world.
    It really is. Nolan can write AND direct AND produce a pretty damn good movie every two years. Now that is difficult. Why can't BB+MGW hire competent writers and get them write a decent script in 1.5 years?

    Dunkirk certainly isn't the masterpiece some people would have you believe it is.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    I note you've slyly retreated to this now being purely about 'script development' and no longer about half the forums ability to do a better job of producing than Barbara, so maybe you aren't quite as belligerent as you appear.

    Are you off your meds? I NEVER wrote half the forum would do a better job of producing than BB. I wrote "a large percentage", and considering what we are talking about (Bond fans being better at producing a Bon film than BB+MGW or not), 30 or even just 20% can be considered large. Btw, I absolutely still maintain that a large percentage of people regularly posting here would do a better job at producing Bond 25 or any Bond film.

    As for retreating "to this now being purely about 'script development'", it was ALWAYS about script development and issues related to that (like making specific arrengements related to filming while the script is still being written, and not just polished).
    RC7 wrote: »
    You keep taking about hiring screenwriters to write a 'good' script being the easiest thing in the world.
    It really is. Nolan can write AND direct AND produce a pretty damn good movie every two years. Now that is difficult. Why can't BB+MGW hire competent writers and get them write a decent script in 1.5 years?

    So, amongst all the other stuff you've imagined you're now trying trying to convince me that 20% constitutes a large percentage? You're flailing, mate.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I'm amazed they have such trouble coming up with a decent script. Bond is pretty simple. I have 12 years of pro acting/writing experience. Nothing crazy but enough to know that for a James Bond film you don't throw around "ugly evil lesbian?", "British black guy?" LOL I am pretty sure you could go up to any big script writer and say can you write a James Bond screen play? They'd most likely jump on it. I mean there's a lot of great films out there yet they always stick with Purvis & Wade. Then they go through a series of random writers. Craig's films have been great as a new age Bond series and totally different world/universe but I miss the old Bond. I wish they could really bring that feeling back. I do feel like Bond was more popular when I was a kid in the 90s vs now.

    You're right about the writing but wrong I think about popularity. Craig has obviously taken Bond to new heights (at least in the post Connery era).

    Unless you're referring to computer games of course!

    Bit concerning about SW. Sure EON won't be wanting this.
  • CatchingBulletsCatchingBullets facebook.com/catchingbullets
    Posts: 292
    Until someone has written a professional film, cast it professionally, prepped it, produced it, shot it, edited it and packaged it, it is possibly prudent to lay off the "it cannot be hard" notions. A hell of a lot of professionalism and skill goes into the films that forum folk knock and judge. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it rather than talking about doing it from afar.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Until someone has written a professional film, cast it professionally, prepped it, produced it, shot it, edited it and packaged it, it is possibly prudent to lay off the "it cannot be hard" notions. A hell of a lot of professionalism and skill goes into the films that forum folk knock and judge. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it rather than talking about doing it from afar.

    Precisely.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 4,615
    Thing is though, writing a Bond script should (and is IMHO) be easier than writing a film from scratch. So many of the ellements are already in place plus there is a whole series to look back on with examples of what works and what does not work. Compare that with a clean sheet a paper and a brand new concept.

    With Bond you need a decent plot, decent set pieces and decent new characters (but they dont need to have that much depth). We dont need massive speechs or massive plot twists. The templates that work are already there to see. and its this formalula that people look forward to seeing when they go to see a Bond movie. Its about ticking the boxes.

    So, for example, part of the formula is the big/massive explosion/action set piece at the end followed by an shorter emotional or fun scene. This is what I believe people want and takes us back to the glory days of Bond. Even Skyfall stuck to this.

    I know there are writers on the forum but I genuiely dont understand why finding a decent (not genuis but a good solid effort) script seems to be such an issue.

    It's not rocket science.

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    I think the problem these days is that so many people stick their oar in - producers, executives, probably accountants, all offering views on the script. I think @RC7 made this point? I don't believe it was so complicated in Cubby's day, but I may be wrong.

  • Posts: 11,425
    It began to become more complicated as soon as Harry stabbed Cubby in the back and flogged his share to UA.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    NicNac wrote: »
    I think the problem these days is that so many people stick their oar in - producers, executives, probably accountants, all offering views on the script. I think @RC7 made this point? I don't believe it was so complicated in Cubby's day, but I may be wrong.
    Perhaps, but didn't the leaks reveal that Sony were in fact on the ball in calling out the issues with SP's script? From what I can remember on the leaks thread, they did all of us a service by highlighting to EON/Mendes and Co. that things were seriously not well in the early drafts.

    I can't comment on people's script development or writing capabilities here, but I do know they could have given us a far more coherent effort last time out. There were too many elements that were cliched and felt derivative. Moreover, there were plot strands which were poorly developed and didn't hold together, like Nine Eyes & that "c". I realize there was tension on the set and disagreements (Craig not wanting to commit to two up front, FIennes not wanting to be the mole etc.) and perhaps this necessitated changes mid stream that messed things up.

    Bottom line is it felt like a 'too many cooks' style script which then was papered over with formulaic touches, just like TND (which also had issues from my memory).
  • Posts: 4,615
    Fiennes seems to have understood the Bond series better than some of the writers. How do these bonkers ideas ever gain traction?
  • CatchingBulletsCatchingBullets facebook.com/catchingbullets
    Posts: 292
    patb wrote: »
    Thing is though, writing a Bond script should (and is IMHO) be easier than writing a film from scratch.
    Not true.


  • CatchingBulletsCatchingBullets facebook.com/catchingbullets
    Posts: 292
    patb wrote: »
    The templates that work are already there to see. and its this formalula that people look forward to seeing when they go to see a Bond movie. Its about ticking the boxes.
    Not true.
  • CatchingBulletsCatchingBullets facebook.com/catchingbullets
    edited September 2017 Posts: 292
    EDITED
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 1,031
    patb wrote: »
    The templates that work are already there to see. and its this formalula that people look forward to seeing when they go to see a Bond movie. Its about ticking the boxes.
    Not true.

    I agree - It's considerably harder! To get the balance right between being formulaic and doing something interesting and againt the Bond 'template' is very difficult indeed. It takes great skill to write a Bond film, particularly at this point in the series.
  • Posts: 1,031
    NicNac wrote: »
    I think the problem these days is that so many people stick their oar in - producers, executives, probably accountants, all offering views on the script. I think @RC7 made this point? I don't believe it was so complicated in Cubby's day, but I may be wrong.

    The Sony criticisms were very vaild. You also need that criticism to help make the best film possible - it can be very valuable having that outsiders' input - conversely it can also be detrimental. Barbara Broccoli's frustrations at the restrictions being placed on her in those emails is equally valid.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Surely it's not rocket science (from what I understand, that's pretty complex stuff), although certainly more difficult than it would appear. As with any multi-$m endeavour, there are lots of folks with opinions getting in the picture, especially when the last two films have made big 'gross' (if not 'net') for all concerned.

    We're having this discussion because many weren't pleased with what we got last time out. Shocked to the point of disbelief in some cases. It's understandable.

    They've got four years to sort this out this time around, and I sincerely hope they're using their time wisely.

    If they deliver a cracker in 2019 all will be forgotten. Fans are a bit finicky that way.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 1,031
    bondjames wrote: »
    Surely it's not rocket science (from what I understand, that's pretty complex stuff), although certainly more difficult than it would appear. As with any multi-$m endeavour, there are lots of folks with opinions getting in the picture, especially when the last two films have made big 'gross' (if not 'net') for all concerned.

    We're having this discussion because many weren't pleased with what we got last time out. Shocked to the point of disbelief in some cases. It's understandable.

    They've got four years to sort this out this time around, and I sincerely hope they're using their time wisely.

    If they deliver a cracker in 2019 all will be forgotten. Fans are a bit finicky that way.

    The negativity surrounding Spectre from some quarters is quite hyperbolic though. Sure, it has many flaws, but you'd think it was the worst film ever from some people.

    And at the end of the day, dare I say it, it is just a movie.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Surely it's not rocket science (from what I understand, that's pretty complex stuff), although certainly more difficult than it would appear. As with any multi-$m endeavour, there are lots of folks with opinions getting in the picture, especially when the last two films have made big 'gross' (if not 'net') for all concerned.

    We're having this discussion because many weren't pleased with what we got last time out. Shocked to the point of disbelief in some cases. It's understandable.

    They've got four years to sort this out this time around, and I sincerely hope they're using their time wisely.

    If they deliver a cracker in 2019 all will be forgotten. Fans are a bit finicky that way.

    The negativity surrounding Spectre from some quarters is quite hyperbolic though. Sure, it has many flaws, but you'd think it was the worst film ever from some people.
    It was a 'severe' disappointment to many here, myself included. Like I said, the ball is in EON's court. The only one who's been talking lately is Craig, and it appears through him that they realize what they have to do next time around. Let's see what they come up with.
  • Posts: 1,031
    bondjames wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Surely it's not rocket science (from what I understand, that's pretty complex stuff), although certainly more difficult than it would appear. As with any multi-$m endeavour, there are lots of folks with opinions getting in the picture, especially when the last two films have made big 'gross' (if not 'net') for all concerned.

    We're having this discussion because many weren't pleased with what we got last time out. Shocked to the point of disbelief in some cases. It's understandable.

    They've got four years to sort this out this time around, and I sincerely hope they're using their time wisely.

    If they deliver a cracker in 2019 all will be forgotten. Fans are a bit finicky that way.

    The negativity surrounding Spectre from some quarters is quite hyperbolic though. Sure, it has many flaws, but you'd think it was the worst film ever from some people.
    It was a 'severe' disappointment to many here, myself included. Like I said, the ball is in EON's court. The only one who's been talking lately is Craig, and it appears through him that they realize what they have to do next time around. Let's see what they come up with.

    You say Craig's the only one been talking, which suggests you want MGW and BB to talk to you, what would you want them to tell you?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Surely it's not rocket science (from what I understand, that's pretty complex stuff), although certainly more difficult than it would appear. As with any multi-$m endeavour, there are lots of folks with opinions getting in the picture, especially when the last two films have made big 'gross' (if not 'net') for all concerned.

    We're having this discussion because many weren't pleased with what we got last time out. Shocked to the point of disbelief in some cases. It's understandable.

    They've got four years to sort this out this time around, and I sincerely hope they're using their time wisely.

    If they deliver a cracker in 2019 all will be forgotten. Fans are a bit finicky that way.

    The negativity surrounding Spectre from some quarters is quite hyperbolic though. Sure, it has many flaws, but you'd think it was the worst film ever from some people.
    It was a 'severe' disappointment to many here, myself included. Like I said, the ball is in EON's court. The only one who's been talking lately is Craig, and it appears through him that they realize what they have to do next time around. Let's see what they come up with.

    You say Craig's the only one been talking, which suggests you want MGW and BB to talk to you, what would you want them to tell you?

    "We have made a mistake!"
  • Posts: 1,031
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Surely it's not rocket science (from what I understand, that's pretty complex stuff), although certainly more difficult than it would appear. As with any multi-$m endeavour, there are lots of folks with opinions getting in the picture, especially when the last two films have made big 'gross' (if not 'net') for all concerned.

    We're having this discussion because many weren't pleased with what we got last time out. Shocked to the point of disbelief in some cases. It's understandable.

    They've got four years to sort this out this time around, and I sincerely hope they're using their time wisely.

    If they deliver a cracker in 2019 all will be forgotten. Fans are a bit finicky that way.

    The negativity surrounding Spectre from some quarters is quite hyperbolic though. Sure, it has many flaws, but you'd think it was the worst film ever from some people.
    It was a 'severe' disappointment to many here, myself included. Like I said, the ball is in EON's court. The only one who's been talking lately is Craig, and it appears through him that they realize what they have to do next time around. Let's see what they come up with.

    You say Craig's the only one been talking, which suggests you want MGW and BB to talk to you, what would you want them to tell you?

    "We have made a mistake!"

    What mistake would that be?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Surely it's not rocket science (from what I understand, that's pretty complex stuff), although certainly more difficult than it would appear. As with any multi-$m endeavour, there are lots of folks with opinions getting in the picture, especially when the last two films have made big 'gross' (if not 'net') for all concerned.

    We're having this discussion because many weren't pleased with what we got last time out. Shocked to the point of disbelief in some cases. It's understandable.

    They've got four years to sort this out this time around, and I sincerely hope they're using their time wisely.

    If they deliver a cracker in 2019 all will be forgotten. Fans are a bit finicky that way.

    The negativity surrounding Spectre from some quarters is quite hyperbolic though. Sure, it has many flaws, but you'd think it was the worst film ever from some people.
    It was a 'severe' disappointment to many here, myself included. Like I said, the ball is in EON's court. The only one who's been talking lately is Craig, and it appears through him that they realize what they have to do next time around. Let's see what they come up with.

    You say Craig's the only one been talking, which suggests you want MGW and BB to talk to you, what would you want them to tell you?
    The first part of your statement is accurate. I did say Craig's the only one who's been talking about B25, and that's fact.

    The second part of your statement is an incorrect conclusion. The suggestion is not there, even though you assumed it. I don't expect them to tell us anything at this point. From what we know, they don't even have a distributor, who has override power on many elements at play.

    Bottom line is we have no reason to be positive or negative at this point. There are far too many variables still.
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