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I'm hopeful :-). Never say never @BondJames ;-). There's also the possibility we'll get some sort of perfect merger between a CR-esque, SF-esque character drama and a more larger-than-life, funny action flick. And I really mean a perfect merger. Too soon too think too black-and-white like many of us do in here.
Actually, apart from the narrative problems with SP, I already say some of these larger-than-life, cheesy elements resurfacing again: Blofeld's hollowed out crater, his evil lair full of cyber criminals, a larger meeting of a crime syndicate, a Persian cat, GoldenEye-esque action, not with a tank, but with an airplane 'on ski's'...the list is endless!
It becomes problematic however when we become negative -or tired- about both the darker and grittier character drama and when we accuse the return of more cheesy, tongue-in-cheek elements as cheap rip-offs from the past. It's almost like snowballing negativity. If we keep doing that, Bond 25, a franchise that by default lives because of its 'unoriginal formula', becomes already a creative and critical failure two years before it premieres.
The way I see "SPECTRE" is a Bond film with problems, that could have worked better if the writers streamlined the story a bit more, explained certain dealings and actions a bit more. And et voila....
So, hence I say: Let's stay positive :-). Let's stay hopeful that Bond #25 becomes a critical success :-)! And especially ask yourself if staying hopeful and excited is what makes the road towards a new Bond film more fun.
I would like to think so, except all these rumours about Barbara selling up, etc. Makes me think we could be in for a lengthy wait after the Craig era ends. I hope they simplify everything and manage to get a new era up and running within 3 years. That way Campbell is still in the picture for B26.
But @BondJames...the man IS coming back. That's the fact we have to live with. So why not try thinking towards a direction that results in a marvellous send-off! It's no good to talk about 'shoulds' and 'could have been's.
And I actually agree with you, that diverting to that 'high concept' is risky. But it depends how you do it. I think it's perfectly possible to create a perfect merger between the typical darker character drama of the Craig-era and a bit more 'zest, fun and cheese'. To do that, one should not think too black-and-white. For me it's a no-go to think 'Craig did that so he can't do this'. It all depends on huw nuanced writers can tackle this and that these writers don't turn Bond 25 in a full-blown "Die Another Day". It's all about finding the perfect middleway. Because we're talking about Craig's send-off here. (I wouldn't be surprised if Neal Purvis & Robert Wade think as I do)
Be hopeful and positive. Let's not highlight our 'creative mental depressions', and instead focus on finding good (and realistic) solutions to create another great Bond masterpiece. For the sake of Craig's 5th and final outing as Her Majesty's Secret Agent. And if it's not a masterpiece? By jolly, then at least we have another Bond film :-D!
This is how I see it - although I liked the way Craig played it in SP, the narrative was just against him. Long story short - wrap this up as best you can and then in the words of Milton Krest 'I'd like to deep six' the continuity. Start a fresh and find a new direction. One thing I'm grateful for is SP has firmly tempered my expectations for B25 that as long as it's better than SP - then it will be a success in my eyes.
And again, Craig is coming back. I refuse to be the depressed 'pissing on the Bond parade' kind of Bond fan. The movie hasn't even premiered yet! And all 'we' can do....is saying that Bond #25 can mostly be a success if Craig f&*%ks off and we start anew? Jolly, there were days when we welcomed the return of the same Bond actor!
Also, and I have to say this now to everyone. I dislike tempering my expectations. Because you know why? I am never disappointed that way, even when the film isn't that good (which was the case with SP)! If I skyrocket my expectations, I basically see much clearer afterwards why that movie was a failure or a mediocre piece of s**t. I reconcile myself with the disappointment much easier and much faster that way.
Absolutely no way the family will sell up with Michael 's Sons already working on the films and Barbara's daughter already showing a keen eye for producing (confirmed on Everything Or Nothing Doc).
I suspect to get a film made and to keep Dan for one more EON/MGM agreed a new 1 film deal with Sony distributing. This giving them more time to ponder over the other offers i.e Warner Brothers, Sony, rumoured Amazon and Apple and potentially Disney.
Which is great, Bond finds a solid financially backed home (likely a film every 2 years), with a new actor and potentially EON under the next generations control. What a way to start of the next incarnation and timeline.
You think Daniel will be in BOND26 as well ,Hilly ?
No, I think 25 is it for him. He gets to retire the longest serving Bond and on a high as a very rich man.
Good ,that's what I thought you meant.
The instrument on the table is very clear to me: Daniel Craig. The next, 25th Bond film needs to be tailored around this actor. And to be honest, too much of the criticism is 'could have been' now. Too much advices and tips have been written down by taking into account the removal of Daniel Craig. And even if there's some heartfelt advice for the writers of the next Bond film, it is penetrated with a huge amount of scepticism that in itself doesn't really facilitate helpful tips or good ideas. Sorry, that is my opinion. And indeed, we are here to discuss, which I am doing right now :-).
My genuine belief, Craig would have gone if Spectre received the acclaim Skyfall got. I believe he wants to spark the debate as to whether he is the best ever, as his tenure is reflected back on. And I believe he knows Spectre wasn't going to do that for him. I think he knows he needs another solid movie for that discussion to be sparked one day. I don't know if that comes from Craig's Ego or whether he just wants to be the best at everything he does (Cough Cowboys and Aliens).
Before anyone starts, I am a massive fan of Craig.
Still it might be wishful thinking. None of the big shots at EON has shown any kind of passion or love in the last years for their bread and butter franchise. Instead they are trying to establish new spy franchises(!!!)
Also the work that Michael's son has done at Spectre might have convinced them that it might be time to make the big cut. Giving the inflated prices these days they might fetch up several billions for the rights on James bond. Several billions with which they can do whatever they want. Would you decline?
Baffling.
Barbara wouldn't sleep at night for the fear of Cubby's ghost. EON and Bond is her Father's legacy and she's rich enough to put that before Studio Billions.
I've always wanted Craig for 25. Since he was announced as Bond I've always thought he would kill it and he was definitely one of my favourite elements of SP. But SP taught me a lesson that in retrospect I should have learnt after QoS - that is EON want to have a continuity and they, with the help of the writers - have linked everything together because they think it makes it more attractive to the cinema going audience in the last decade.
This to me is simply empirical knowledge gained from the last decade of watching bond films and I find it difficult to argue against. To think that they won't have forced continuity in this one is almost unimaginable. And the continuity - in particular the way these writers have handled it - is among my least favourite elements of the last three movies and I loved SF - even for all its maddening plot holes - as a film it romps along for me.
Even opinions from actors are subject to change @ClarkDevlin. I think you're a bit too....staunch and black-and-white about this. We don't know anything for sure right now. It could very well be that the fact that Craig and everyone around him now know it'll be his last film, could result in some more drastic changes that you currently can not predict or anticipate. So because of that fact, that it'll be a huge send-off film, Daniel could say something "Ah well, let's infuse a bit more cheese in it this time! I loved playing this crazy guy in "Logan Lucky", time I do that in Bond!" All I say is this: Nothing is certain, so we could better be open for more possibilities, indulge in the fun it can bring into these discussions.
Exactly.
Bond 25 will be amazing - how about that?! Better than all the pessimism and depressing negativity ...
Why?
I am not even talking about continuity here. That's not what I've been discussing here. I think it's wrong to imply that "Oooowh because we turn Bond 25 into another continuity driven event again, we need to force out the fun". I mean, come on, I think that kind of reasoning is pretty flawed. SP can teach you a lot, but not everything. And it's also within the possibilities that EON is currently drafting one hell of a good Bond film, that perhaps merges the best of both...of all worlds.
We all need to calm down a bit, we need to call empirical knowledge.....once it is empirical knowledge. Which is now, 2 years before D-Day, hardly the case. Yes, you can point towards certain possibilities of directions (hence I created the betiing topic! https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/18445/the-mi6community-betting-corner-bet-1-added-next-bond-25-director#latest ). You can even predict until your balls fall off. But we are indeed not sitting in an office at Piccadilly brainstorming with the producers. We are fans, not members of the crew (although I do think fans need to be treated with more credibility and attention from EON, but that's an entirely different discussion). So in the end -and that's always the case with movies- we have to wait and see.
It can turn out in a film that's even more shitty than SP. But at this stage I prefer to be hopeful and that Bond 25 will be a magnificent send-off. That uncertainty...that is the only real truth at this stage....for us nerdy fanboys :-). That is the only factual knowledge we have two years before November 8th 2019.