No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Posts: 4,325
    Yes - remember that villainous liar Sam Smith - no I'm not doing the Bond song, not at all.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Yes - remember that villainous liar Sam Smith - no I'm not doing the Bond song, not at all.
    Add Naomie Harris and Christoph Waltz to that list, then.
  • Posts: 4,325
    jake24 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Yes - remember that villainous liar Sam Smith - no I'm not doing the Bond song, not at all.
    Add Naomie Harris and Christoph Waltz to that list, then.

    And Nixon and Clinton and Blair
  • Posts: 2,483
    RC7 wrote: »
    If you want fifties Bond, read the novels. It doesn't get any better. Any period piece will pale in comparison to genuine 50's/60's spy thrillers. Take UNCLE - it's 60s pastiche and cannot replicate the innate style and substance you get from a FRWL or an Ipcress File. Unless, amongst other things, you're adopting the limitations of the era you lack any authenticity and it becomes an imagined, half-remembered, homogenised aesthetic. They should keep moving forward. Fleming would want that.

    Agreed.

  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Yes - remember that villainous liar Sam Smith - no I'm not doing the Bond song, not at all.
    Add Naomie Harris and Christoph Waltz to that list, then.

    And Nixon and Clinton and Blair

    :))
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    I prefer the novels to be set on present day as well but I appreciate those who prefer the Fleming or close to the Fleming timeline.
    He attempted that with From Russia, With Love. To my knowledge, he would've gotten a backlash from fans. Remember when Doyle killed off Holmes? A protest took place with angry letters, and that was just 19th century.
  • Posts: 233
    I wouldn't mind a Bond film set in the fifties, but I feel like it would be a waste when they haven't yet made a film that properly takes advantage of the modern political climate. Casino Royale touched on the concerns of 21st Century terrorism with the Obanno character, and Spectre had some interesting commentary on drone warfare, but other than that they've shied away from it. I'm not asking for Bond vs Daesh, but it'd be nice to see 007 tackle a villain who has a little more relevance in the real world. I've always liked the use of contemporary political concerns in For Your Eyes Only, Octopussy, and The Living Daylights, those plots felt like they could really happen.

    Also, shameless plug here, but I've written a bit about the future of the Bond franchise on my blog and I'd be grateful if anyone wanted to take a look:

    https://clueddown.com/2016/04/19/where-next-for-james-bond/
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    Dr No is my favourite Bond film, probably in my top ten films of all time, and partially because of the fifties feel to that film, even I don't want to return to that time. I want a Dr No type story, no not a similar plot but the same mix of mystery and suspense that they captured in that film, simply updated for the modern day. The Bond character in DN is pretty much perfect to me.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Honestly, I'd prefer a 'period piece' to some of these retro throwback elements that we keep getting in the recent films, like the Spectre meeting, which nearly everyone seems to like, but which I found too familiar.

    The key is to embody the spirit of the character and the suspense/spy genre, and that was done best (imho) in CR lately (and also during certain parts of SF, including the entire Shanghai sequence), and then previously in GE, in the earlier parts of TLD, in FYEO & in some of the Egypt scenes in TSWLM.
  • Posts: 4,325
    I wouldn't mind a Bond film set in the fifties, but I feel like it would be a waste when they haven't yet made a film that properly takes advantage of the modern political climate. Casino Royale touched on the concerns of 21st Century terrorism with the Obanno character, and Spectre had some interesting commentary on drone warfare, but other than that they've shied away from it. I'm not asking for Bond vs Daesh, but it'd be nice to see 007 tackle a villain who has a little more relevance in the real world. I've always liked the use of contemporary political concerns in For Your Eyes Only, Octopussy, and The Living Daylights, those plots felt like they could really happen.

    Also, shameless plug here, but I've written a bit about the future of the Bond franchise on my blog and I'd be grateful if anyone wanted to take a look:

    https://clueddown.com/2016/04/19/where-next-for-james-bond/

    Thanks I enjoyed reading that blog piece @JawsIsAlive
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Me, too. Well done.
  • Posts: 2,483
    bondjames wrote: »
    Honestly, I'd prefer a 'period piece' to some of these retro throwback elements that we keep getting in the recent films, like the Spectre meeting, which nearly everyone seems to like, but which I found too familiar.

    The key is to embody the spirit of the character and the suspense/spy genre, and that was done best (imho) in CR lately (and also during certain parts of SF, including the entire Shanghai sequence), and then previously in GE, in the earlier parts of TLD, in FYEO & in some of the Egypt scenes in TSWLM.

    Funny, but I found that the meeting was tonally, and in most other respects, a rather sharp departure from the SPECTRE meetings of yore.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Honestly, I'd prefer a 'period piece' to some of these retro throwback elements that we keep getting in the recent films, like the Spectre meeting, which nearly everyone seems to like, but which I found too familiar.

    The key is to embody the spirit of the character and the suspense/spy genre, and that was done best (imho) in CR lately (and also during certain parts of SF, including the entire Shanghai sequence), and then previously in GE, in the earlier parts of TLD, in FYEO & in some of the Egypt scenes in TSWLM.

    Funny, but I found that the meeting was tonally, and in most other respects, a rather sharp departure from the SPECTRE meetings of yore.
    It's the temporarily hidden Blofeld and the killing of an operative which was similar to TB, GF & AVTAK (I realize the last two aren't Spectre but they are Bond), in combination with the similarities to Eyes Wide Shut & The Ninth Gate which did this for me. Admittedly the inferences may have even been stronger had they continued with the 'masks' which was reportedly in the initial script.

    Not a bad scene, but I prefer the Tosca meeting in QoS, which I found more interesting, even if it was a lousy place to meet, as Bond noted.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited April 2016 Posts: 4,116
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Honestly, I'd prefer a 'period piece' to some of these retro throwback elements that we keep getting in the recent films, like the Spectre meeting, which nearly everyone seems to like, but which I found too familiar.

    The key is to embody the spirit of the character and the suspense/spy genre, and that was done best (imho) in CR lately (and also during certain parts of SF, including the entire Shanghai sequence), and then previously in GE, in the earlier parts of TLD, in FYEO & in some of the Egypt scenes in TSWLM.

    Funny, but I found that the meeting was tonally, and in most other respects, a rather sharp departure from the SPECTRE meetings of yore.
    It's the temporarily hidden Blofeld and the killing of an operative which was similar to TB, GF & AVTAK (I realize the last two aren't Spectre but they are Bond), in combination with the similarities to Eyes Wide Shut & The Ninth Gate which did this for me. Admittedly the inferences may have even been stronger had they continued with the 'masks' which was reportedly in the initial script.

    Not a bad scene, but I prefer the Tosca meeting in QoS, which I found more interesting, even if it was a lousy place to meet, as Bond noted.

    Tosca is not to everyone's liking ..to paraphrase .
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 4,520
    RC7 wrote: »
    I hate that "the next real world threat" comment they made. Bond is about escapism, not social commentary. I don't like that they feel they have to wait around for some new pressing issue before they have the basis for a story. Just give us a thrilling, engaging plot, that's all I'm worried about.

    They've always worked in this way. If you work bac
  • Posts: 2,483
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Honestly, I'd prefer a 'period piece' to some of these retro throwback elements that we keep getting in the recent films, like the Spectre meeting, which nearly everyone seems to like, but which I found too familiar.

    The key is to embody the spirit of the character and the suspense/spy genre, and that was done best (imho) in CR lately (and also during certain parts of SF, including the entire Shanghai sequence), and then previously in GE, in the earlier parts of TLD, in FYEO & in some of the Egypt scenes in TSWLM.

    Funny, but I found that the meeting was tonally, and in most other respects, a rather sharp departure from the SPECTRE meetings of yore.
    It's the temporarily hidden Blofeld and the killing of an operative which was similar to TB, GF & AVTAK (I realize the last two aren't Spectre but they are Bond), in combination with the similarities to Eyes Wide Shut & The Ninth Gate which did this for me. Admittedly the inferences may have even been stronger had they continued with the 'masks' which was reportedly in the initial script.

    Not a bad scene, but I prefer the Tosca meeting in QoS, which I found more interesting, even if it was a lousy place to meet, as Bond noted.

    Yes, you're quite right in that regard. But for me the brutality of Hinx's attack on the other agent is something that simply never would have made it into a Bond film in the 60s through mid-80s. Then too there's the prominent position of a woman and a black African, which is thoroughly postmodern. And finally, the sumptuousness of the setting contrasts sharply with Ken Adam's stark, mid-century aesthetic.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Honestly, I'd prefer a 'period piece' to some of these retro throwback elements that we keep getting in the recent films, like the Spectre meeting, which nearly everyone seems to like, but which I found too familiar.

    The key is to embody the spirit of the character and the suspense/spy genre, and that was done best (imho) in CR lately (and also during certain parts of SF, including the entire Shanghai sequence), and then previously in GE, in the earlier parts of TLD, in FYEO & in some of the Egypt scenes in TSWLM.

    Funny, but I found that the meeting was tonally, and in most other respects, a rather sharp departure from the SPECTRE meetings of yore.
    It's the temporarily hidden Blofeld and the killing of an operative which was similar to TB, GF & AVTAK (I realize the last two aren't Spectre but they are Bond), in combination with the similarities to Eyes Wide Shut & The Ninth Gate which did this for me. Admittedly the inferences may have even been stronger had they continued with the 'masks' which was reportedly in the initial script.

    Not a bad scene, but I prefer the Tosca meeting in QoS, which I found more interesting, even if it was a lousy place to meet, as Bond noted.

    Yes, you're quite right in that regard. But for me the brutality of Hinx's attack on the other agent is something that simply never would have made it into a Bond film in the 60s through mid-80s. Then too there's the prominent position of a woman and a black African, which is thoroughly postmodern. And finally, the sumptuousness of the setting contrasts sharply with Ken Adam's stark, mid-century aesthetic.
    Those are all good and fair points. The setting was beautifully established and looked quite regal and grand. In that respect it was indeed perfect for our first full shot of Spectre's top man.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Very off topic but rewatching SP tonight I enjoyed it more again.

    Reoccurring themes including music really do seem to close or provide a closure for Craig's Bond.

    To me Q's words to Bond "I thought you left.." really don't concretely say that Bond has actually even quit. Just that he left.

    Still not my favorite Bond but I do like SP. Not sure now if it's last still.

    Ugh I need help.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited April 2016 Posts: 4,399
    sitting here arguing over what Fleming intended - or didn't intend his secret agent to be is pretty pointless - since he's dead... all we know is what we got from him in terms of the books, which were primarily written in the 50s - which was the contemporary time they were set in.. the movies have since followed suit, and have continually adapted James Bond to fit the time and place in which the movies are made..

    Bond (as a character), from both Fleming and the films, has always been set in the present day, and thus, he should stay that way.... i think most people who want him returned to the 50s and 60s, are those who are more interested in keeping things as they once were - instead trying to move the character forward - to quote a Metallica song Eye Of The Beholder - "moving back instead of forward seems to me absurd.".... the fundamental success of Bond, has been his ability to adapt to the present day world - and M's Tennyson moment in SF about the world being more opaque is EXACTLY why a character like Bond is needed now more than ever.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    I wouldn't mind a Bond film set in the fifties, but I feel like it would be a waste when they haven't yet made a film that properly takes advantage of the modern political climate. Casino Royale touched on the concerns of 21st Century terrorism with the Obanno character, and Spectre had some interesting commentary on drone warfare, but other than that they've shied away from it. I'm not asking for Bond vs Daesh, but it'd be nice to see 007 tackle a villain who has a little more relevance in the real world. I've always liked the use of contemporary political concerns in For Your Eyes Only, Octopussy, and The Living Daylights, those plots felt like they could really happen.

    Also, shameless plug here, but I've written a bit about the future of the Bond franchise on my blog and I'd be grateful if anyone wanted to take a look:

    https://clueddown.com/2016/04/19/where-next-for-james-bond/

    i think there is more there than your recalling..

    QOS - Quantum and Greene buying up "worthless plots of land" - in order to create a drought in Boliva, thus controlling the water supply of the entire country is apropos to many back channel / greedy corporate dealings... just think of the midwest oil dealings.

    SF and SP - both touched on dangers of cyber terrorism... one focusing more on the dangers of terrorism through hacking poor government infrastructures (but using it for his own personal agenda) - the other about a global intelligence community that is privately run and funded outside of government jurisdictions..

    execution of the writings aside, i think EON has done a fine job of taking the modern day concerns of the masses, and adapting it to Bond's world.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited April 2016 Posts: 1,756
    I think QoS is a perfect example of a modern realistic Bond plot. They should do more political/corporate greed and exploitation. The greatest Bond movies really make you feel like true raw justice is being served, not anything personal. That's why QoS, on repeated viewings, felt satisfying. You didn't like the villain, he exploited the water supply, and Bond gave him a taste of his own medicine and it felt GOOD. That's probably my biggest problem with the movies in general, they try to make you sympathize too much with the villain and you don't get that justice satisfaction (porn) where you're just on the edge of your seat rooting for Bond. I only truly felt it with DN, OHMSS, TSWLM, LTK (maybe), CR, & QoS.
  • Posts: 1,680
    The last films to feel a true threat were GE & TWINE. The Craig era felt like small scale threats.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    The last films to feel a true threat were GE & TWINE. The Craig era felt like small scale threats.

    i'd go back further and say OP was the last Bond film that we got a truly "global scale" threat.. TND is a close 2nd..

    i don't mind small scale threats - FRWL was really small scale, but it was executed to perfection.. LALD was another example of a small scale threat, the same with FYEO, TLD and LTK..

    sometimes i think it's good to keep things small and simple... i think as Craig's series has gone on, they've increased the stakes little by little.... but IMO, i would still like to see a ticking time bomb finale to a Craig Bond film.. they sort of did that in SP, with the whole 9 Eyes program going online - but it didn't have that same tension..
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    btw.... i have peeked my head into the new Jungle Book movie every now and then - let me add John Denby to the list of composers we'd like to see do a Bond score... i absolutely fell in love with this melody, and so much of it reminds me of John Barry... i would love to hear this kind of melody return to a Bond film, and if it isn't Arnold, then i think Denby would pull it off magnificently..

    skip to the 1:25 part of the song, and you'll hear what i am talking about..

  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Here is another from John Denby..

    start at the 30 second mark..... it had a nice soft "Bond-ish" beginning, then ramps up to an action style pace..

    EON - i am looking at you when i say this.. if you guys are moving on from DA, get Denby!

  • Posts: 233
    HASEROT wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind a Bond film set in the fifties, but I feel like it would be a waste when they haven't yet made a film that properly takes advantage of the modern political climate. Casino Royale touched on the concerns of 21st Century terrorism with the Obanno character, and Spectre had some interesting commentary on drone warfare, but other than that they've shied away from it. I'm not asking for Bond vs Daesh, but it'd be nice to see 007 tackle a villain who has a little more relevance in the real world. I've always liked the use of contemporary political concerns in For Your Eyes Only, Octopussy, and The Living Daylights, those plots felt like they could really happen.

    Also, shameless plug here, but I've written a bit about the future of the Bond franchise on my blog and I'd be grateful if anyone wanted to take a look:

    https://clueddown.com/2016/04/19/where-next-for-james-bond/

    i think there is more there than your recalling..

    QOS - Quantum and Greene buying up "worthless plots of land" - in order to create a drought in Boliva, thus controlling the water supply of the entire country is apropos to many back channel / greedy corporate dealings... just think of the midwest oil dealings.

    SF and SP - both touched on dangers of cyber terrorism... one focusing more on the dangers of terrorism through hacking poor government infrastructures (but using it for his own personal agenda) - the other about a global intelligence community that is privately run and funded outside of government jurisdictions..

    execution of the writings aside, i think EON has done a fine job of taking the modern day concerns of the masses, and adapting it to Bond's world.

    That's a fair point, probably why I've always been a big fan of Quantum's plot, despite everything else. The references to US foreign policy was also welcome, grounds it all in some proper geopolitical context. My issue is that the villain's themselves don't always seem feasible - they've invariably been a load of white European men. For example, in SP we had the Spectre organisation orchestrating terror attacks across the globe - I much preferred the way it was set up in CR, with Spectre acting as a go between for existing terror groups. Felt much more connected to the real world.

    I understand it's a Bond film so there's always going to be an element of escapism, I just feel that the more outlandish the villains become, the less threatening they feel - I never get the impression that Silva is someone who could really exist.
  • Posts: 4,617
    It is interesting that with the cold war, it was perfectly OK to openly discuss and use as a backdrop for spy thrillers (including Bond), today , we all know what the big risk is but, due to a combination of reasons, it can't be approached in the same way and cant be used as a backdrop for Bond. As we speak, many many MI6 staff are working to protect us from this threat and yet...not 007
  • Posts: 233
    patb wrote: »
    It is interesting that with the cold war, it was perfectly OK to openly discuss and use as a backdrop for spy thrillers (including Bond), today , we all know what the big risk is but, due to a combination of reasons, it can't be approached in the same way and cant be used as a backdrop for Bond. As we speak, many many MI6 staff are working to protect us from this threat and yet...not 007

    There are a few films that tackle the issues of modern terrorism, but they tend to be very serious and realistic in their portrayal - look at A Most Wanted Man, for example. It would probably feel a bit flippant to see James Bond fighting jihadis, considering how close to home it would feel for much of the public. Also you have to be much more careful when it comes to issues around religious fanaticism, the cold war was essentially a political conflict.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Moreover, from a film perspective, it was usually Spectre behind the scenes trying to create mayhem. The Russians were as much victims as anyone for the most part.Same goes for Carver manipulating things between China/UK in TND.

    The thing about jihadis is it's difficult to portray them as rational actors for one, or as forces fighting evil (I guess TLD came closest).

    I agree that CR and QoS did it best recently with Quantum in the middle moving things along. Retro but still fresh.

    With Silva, it was the revenge angle that resonated for me, and not his 'hacking' plot.
  • Posts: 2,483
    HASEROT wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind a Bond film set in the fifties, but I feel like it would be a waste when they haven't yet made a film that properly takes advantage of the modern political climate. Casino Royale touched on the concerns of 21st Century terrorism with the Obanno character, and Spectre had some interesting commentary on drone warfare, but other than that they've shied away from it. I'm not asking for Bond vs Daesh, but it'd be nice to see 007 tackle a villain who has a little more relevance in the real world. I've always liked the use of contemporary political concerns in For Your Eyes Only, Octopussy, and The Living Daylights, those plots felt like they could really happen.

    Also, shameless plug here, but I've written a bit about the future of the Bond franchise on my blog and I'd be grateful if anyone wanted to take a look:

    https://clueddown.com/2016/04/19/where-next-for-james-bond/

    i think there is more there than your recalling..

    QOS - Quantum and Greene buying up "worthless plots of land" - in order to create a drought in Boliva, thus controlling the water supply of the entire country is apropos to many back channel / greedy corporate dealings... just think of the midwest oil dealings.

    SF and SP - both touched on dangers of cyber terrorism... one focusing more on the dangers of terrorism through hacking poor government infrastructures (but using it for his own personal agenda) - the other about a global intelligence community that is privately run and funded outside of government jurisdictions..

    execution of the writings aside, i think EON has done a fine job of taking the modern day concerns of the masses, and adapting it to Bond's world.

    That's a fair point, probably why I've always been a big fan of Quantum's plot, despite everything else. The references to US foreign policy was also welcome, grounds it all in some proper geopolitical context. My issue is that the villain's themselves don't always seem feasible - they've invariably been a load of white European men. For example, in SP we had the Spectre organisation orchestrating terror attacks across the globe - I much preferred the way it was set up in CR, with Spectre acting as a go between for existing terror groups. Felt much more connected to the real world.

    I understand it's a Bond film so there's always going to be an element of escapism, I just feel that the more outlandish the villains become, the less threatening they feel - I never get the impression that Silva is someone who could really exist.

    Agreed. It's past time to portray the villains as Islamic Arabs. You know--for the sake of realism.

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