No Time To Die: Production Diary

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Comments

  • Posts: 233
    I'm not worried about Elba, he's too bloody old anyway. I'm talking about a black Bond in abstract terms. As far as I'm concerned it's no different to a blonde Bond.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited May 2016 Posts: 4,116
    Fleming's Bond is white, very British (and half Swiss), sexist, racist although that has been toned down.

    Movie characters are like sex partners it's ok to have a racial preference ...and gender preference. Everyone has a preference.

    And you can probably successfully argue that it doesn't matter whether white actor or black actor.

    I just prefer Bond to remain white.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    As far as I'm concerned it's no different to a blonde Bond.

    :-O
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,289
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Fleming's Bond is white, very British (and half Swiss), sexist, racist although that has been toned down.

    Movie characters are like sex partners it's ok to have a racial preference ...and gender preference. Everyone has a preference.

    And you can probably successfully argue that it doesn't matter whether white actor or black actor.

    I just prefer Bond to remain white.

    Tina Turner is Swiss. Perhaps she could be Bond.

    Anyway, Eon is reactive, not proactive. They'd never stick their neck out to create the Sidney Poitier of the spy world. And it's not just Eon...as an example, Samuel L. Jackson has yet to have his own Avenger film.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited May 2016 Posts: 4,116
    Interesting :-?

    I'd rather neither Tina nor that Hobbit Turner get it.

    I want someone who looks the part and can act the part.
  • Posts: 233
    As far as I'm concerned it's no different to a blonde Bond.

    :-O

    Beyond emojis, do you have a more expansive rebuttal?
  • Posts: 233
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Fleming's Bond is white, very British (and half Swiss), sexist, racist although that has been toned down.

    Movie characters are like sex partners it's ok to have a racial preference ...and gender preference. Everyone has a preference.

    And you can probably successfully argue that it doesn't matter whether white actor or black actor.

    I just prefer Bond to remain white.

    I just think it's important that you question why you hold that preference. Don't you think it's pretty ignorant to hold a racial prejudice of any kind? Because that's what it is.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Bond is white, very British (and half Swiss), sexist, racist although that has been toned down.

    Movie characters are like sex partners it's ok to have a racial preference ...and gender preference. Everyone has a preference.

    And you can probably successfully argue that it doesn't matter whether white actor or black actor.

    I just prefer Bond to remain white.

    I just think it's important that you question why you hold that preference. Don't you think it's pretty ignorant to hold a racial prejudice of any kind? Because that's what it is.

    No, its not. Why not have a female Bond, if you're going to make that argument? Isn't it pretty homophobic that we don't want a lesbian James Bond. It's 2016 after all.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    It's very ignorant to hold a racial prejudice. And any other type of prejudice.

    It's illegal to discriminate in most jurisdictions.

    It's also legal to be prejudice (discrimination is an action.)

    Casting usually cast based on and specified sex and physical characteristics. Woody Allen probably would not have gotten the part of Hinx.

    If Allen had tried out for Hinx and not gotten the part would that have been discriminatory? Are the producers idiots for have casting Allen given the chance.

    (I'm sorry but I can't get the image out of my mind of a whiney Woody in Blofeld's trying desperately to gouge out the eyes of an assassin. .. never mind.)

    Does wanting a white British actor to play a white British character make me an idiot racist?

    Does casting Elba because he is black make EoN racist?

    You're not going to agree with me so maybe I'll just do an emoji too

    :-q

    Btw I prefer the yellow emojis. Emojis should always be yellow.
  • Posts: 4,325
    We need some news...fast
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    @Mcdonbb I certainly wouldn't label you a racist for saying that.

    Anyways, we need to move on. It's redundant to have the same discussion over and over.
  • Posts: 6,601
    Reading this, i know again why I decided to stop posting - almost. Its so not making any sense anymore. Tanaka is right. This should be closed untill there are actual news.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Reading this, i know again why I decided to stop posting - almost. Its so not making any sense anymore. Tanaka is right. This should be closed untill there are actual news.

    Somehow I feel as if we've had this conversation before. There is zero sense in closing this thread until more news is spoonfed to us. What is wrong with some harmless speculation?
  • Posts: 233
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Bond is white, very British (and half Swiss), sexist, racist although that has been toned down.

    Movie characters are like sex partners it's ok to have a racial preference ...and gender preference. Everyone has a preference.

    And you can probably successfully argue that it doesn't matter whether white actor or black actor.

    I just prefer Bond to remain white.

    I just think it's important that you question why you hold that preference. Don't you think it's pretty ignorant to hold a racial prejudice of any kind? Because that's what it is.

    No, its not. Why not have a female Bond, if you're going to make that argument? Isn't it pretty homophobic that we don't want a lesbian James Bond. It's 2016 after all.

    You've missed my point entirely. Bond being a lesbian would obviously affect his character (ie it would be a woman, therefore they couldn't have gone to Eton etc etc). The point I'm making is that Bond being black would not affect his character whatsoever. No one has yet given me a single reason why Bond being black would change the way he is portrayed on screen.

    I also understand that Bond was written as a white character. He was also written as a Scotsman with dark hair and a scar on his cheek. If you want Bond to stick strictly to that definition, that's fine, but if you'll allow for some physical differences then why is skin colour any different?
  • Posts: 2,483
    Murdock wrote: »
    Bond and Social Context should not be used in the same sentence. Get that PC crap away from Bond at all cost. He's a fictional character not a platform for Keyboard warriors to impose their politics of being okay with changing everything Bond is to fit their desires. I'm sick of that crap.

    Again. I'd really like to know how Bond being black would change anything about what "bond is".

    Honestly, the attitudes of some of the Bond fandom make me wish for a black Bond just to see you all lose your minds over an actor's skin colour.

    Also, I'll leave this clip here from the venerable Stewart Lee, since I'm seeing a lot of nonsense about "PC" and I don't really think people know what they're talking about:

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=bmsV1TuESrc

    Because it's not skin color, it's race, a very real and different thing. And the various races of the human race are very different from one another.

  • Posts: 2,483
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Fleming's Bond is white, very British (and half Swiss), sexist, racist although that has been toned down.

    Movie characters are like sex partners it's ok to have a racial preference ...and gender preference. Everyone has a preference.

    And you can probably successfully argue that it doesn't matter whether white actor or black actor.

    I just prefer Bond to remain white.

    I just think it's important that you question why you hold that preference. Don't you think it's pretty ignorant to hold a racial prejudice of any kind? Because that's what it is.

    Oh there's plenty of racial prejudice in this world today. And a whole lot of it is directed toward whites. In fact, I'd argue that there's a good deal of anti-white racism in the drive to make Bond black.

  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Fleming's Bond is white, very British (and half Swiss), sexist, racist although that has been toned down.

    Movie characters are like sex partners it's ok to have a racial preference ...and gender preference. Everyone has a preference.

    And you can probably successfully argue that it doesn't matter whether white actor or black actor.

    I just prefer Bond to remain white.

    I just think it's important that you question why you hold that preference. Don't you think it's pretty ignorant to hold a racial prejudice of any kind? Because that's what it is.

    Oh there's plenty of racial prejudice in this world today. And a whole lot of it is directed toward whites. In fact, I'd argue that there's a good deal of anti-white racism in the drive to make Bond black.

    Agreed. And we can't close this thread ...too much fun.

    Somebody page @Wizard... he'll illicit some sort of entertaining response.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Bond is white, very British (and half Swiss), sexist, racist although that has been toned down.

    Movie characters are like sex partners it's ok to have a racial preference ...and gender preference. Everyone has a preference.

    And you can probably successfully argue that it doesn't matter whether white actor or black actor.

    I just prefer Bond to remain white.

    I just think it's important that you question why you hold that preference. Don't you think it's pretty ignorant to hold a racial prejudice of any kind? Because that's what it is.

    No, its not. Why not have a female Bond, if you're going to make that argument? Isn't it pretty homophobic that we don't want a lesbian James Bond. It's 2016 after all.

    You've missed my point entirely. Bond being a lesbian would obviously affect his character (ie it would be a woman, therefore they couldn't have gone to Eton etc etc). The point I'm making is that Bond being black would not affect his character whatsoever. No one has yet given me a single reason why Bond being black would change the way he is portrayed on screen.

    I also understand that Bond was written as a white character. He was also written as a Scotsman with dark hair and a scar on his cheek. If you want Bond to stick strictly to that definition, that's fine, but if you'll allow for some physical differences then why is skin colour any different?

    The reason is that those differences weren't planned. There wasn't a campaign to get a blonde Bond in 2006, or a Irish Bond in 1995, they came with the actor.

    Also, anyone can be Scottish. You don't need a Scottish accent to be Scottish. The hair thing, like I said, is a slight change, but Craig's hair was borderline anyway. These are relatively small changes in the grand scheme of things. Changing the race of the character is a striking visual transformation. IMO, there is no reason to do that unless it's for a good enough reason. 'Come on, It's 2016' isn't a good enough reason.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Bond is white, very British (and half Swiss), sexist, racist although that has been toned down.

    Movie characters are like sex partners it's ok to have a racial preference ...and gender preference. Everyone has a preference.

    And you can probably successfully argue that it doesn't matter whether white actor or black actor.

    I just prefer Bond to remain white.

    I just think it's important that you question why you hold that preference. Don't you think it's pretty ignorant to hold a racial prejudice of any kind? Because that's what it is.

    No, its not. Why not have a female Bond, if you're going to make that argument? Isn't it pretty homophobic that we don't want a lesbian James Bond. It's 2016 after all.

    You've missed my point entirely. Bond being a lesbian would obviously affect his character (ie it would be a woman, therefore they couldn't have gone to Eton etc etc). The point I'm making is that Bond being black would not affect his character whatsoever. No one has yet given me a single reason why Bond being black would change the way he is portrayed on screen.

    I also understand that Bond was written as a white character. He was also written as a Scotsman with dark hair and a scar on his cheek. If you want Bond to stick strictly to that definition, that's fine, but if you'll allow for some physical differences then why is skin colour any different?

    If skin colour makes no difference I'm intrigued as to why this debate is only ever framed in terms of Bond being black?

    Why don't you just say 'Why shouldn't Bond be non white?' or 'Why shouldn't Bond be of Chinese or Indian background?'

    So it's clearly not skin colour that's the issue but the tabloids and likes of the pro Elba camp wanting to push the whole 'black agenda' down people's throats. And that winds people up but doesn't automatically mean they are racist.

    Although for the record I loathe the idea of a black Bond just as much as I do a Chinese Bond or an Indian Bond.

    I'd also hate the idea of a Polish Bond but as he would still be white does that make me racist?





  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Way to turn the shark on his back. =))
    img_1681.jpg
  • edited May 2016 Posts: 4,325
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Reading this, i know again why I decided to stop posting - almost. Its so not making any sense anymore. Tanaka is right. This should be closed untill there are actual news.

    Yeah I'm getting bored of Elba this, Hiddlestone that. I might leave the forum for a while nothing much is happening in the world of James Bond right now
  • Posts: 233
    I'm not going to bother addressing the issue of race, I'd like to belive that the majority of us have moved beyond the idea that races are somehow inherently different from one another, especially considering the weight of scientific evidence to the contrary and the commonality of inter-racial breeding across the world.

    I'd like to make clear that I also hate the idea of a Polish or an Indian Bond, because he's an specifically British character. That doesn't mean his ethnicity can't be black, because upper class british people these days can be black, white, Asian, or whatever. My point is that if the best actor for the job was Black, that shouldn't be an obstacle in him playing the role of Bond. I think anyone dismissing an actor on the basis of their race needs to have a think about their priorities.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @JawIsAlive, the discussion is moot anyway. If you consider the pool of actors out there, the chances that the best one for Bond is black is quite slim, just on a pure probability basis. So really, this is more of an academic theorethical discussion rather than anything else. A bit of a time killer really.

    I get your point on a 'British' person being black or Asian etc. On that I agree. I too have moved beyond 'ethnic origin' when defining or labelling someone.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Just reboot I, Spy with John Hamm and Idris Elba, problem solved.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    bondjames wrote: »
    @JawIsAlive, the discussion is moot anyway. If you consider the pool of actors out there, the chances that the best one for Bond is black is quite slim, just on a pure probability basis. So really, this is more of an academic theorethical discussion rather than anything else. A bit of a time killer really.

    I get your point on a 'British' person being black or Asian etc. On that I agree. I too have moved beyond 'ethnic origin' when defining or labelling someone.

    It goes beyond that though. What makes this whole discussion so frustrating is how its framed as "about time" for a black Bond. If Elba loses out now, in some circles it will be construed that he was snubbed BECAUSE of his race. So with Bond #8 the pressure on EON will be even greater. So for the time being, it's all very well saying that being black shouldn't get in the way, but after repeated black actors aren't given the role, the argument will change to "why hasn't there been a black Bond?" Eventually the SJWs will turn into a civil rights case like they did with the Oscars.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    @JawIsAlive, the discussion is moot anyway. If you consider the pool of actors out there, the chances that the best one for Bond is black is quite slim, just on a pure probability basis. So really, this is more of an academic theorethical discussion rather than anything else. A bit of a time killer really.

    I get your point on a 'British' person being black or Asian etc. On that I agree. I too have moved beyond 'ethnic origin' when defining or labelling someone.

    It goes beyond that though. What makes this whole discussion so frustrating is how its framed as "about time" for a black Bond. If Elba loses out now, in some circles it will be construed that he was snubbed BECAUSE of his race. So with Bond #8 the pressure on EON will be even greater. So for the time being, it's all very well saying that being black shouldn't get in the way, but after repeated black actors aren't given the role, the argument will change to "why hasn't there been a black Bond?" Eventually the SJWs will turn into a civil rights case like they did with the Oscars.
    I don't know about that. I think it's all a bit of fun, that's all. If EON can get on with making a superior Bond film with a new actor after the studio decision is made, then I can assure you these black Bond rumours will die a quick death. There is no possible candidate for the job except for Elba anyway, unless some are suggesting John Boyega, and then I will definitely lose it.
  • edited May 2016 Posts: 6,432
    Elba would probably make a good Bond, though I think its ten years to late. Think he is too old at this point, Would like to see Bond in his early to mid 30s.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Elba would probably make a good Bond, though I think its ten years to late. Think he is too old at this point, Would like to see Bond in his early to mid 30s.

    Then you want Aidan Turner. :D
  • Posts: 1,631
    Elba would probably make a good Bond, though I think its ten years two late. Think he is too old at this point, Would like to see Bond in his early to mid 30s.

    This, I think, is the main point here that's been lost. Elba can't be Bond based solely upon his age. In this day in age where Bond films happen at best every three years, if he were cast in the part right now for what we believe is the targeted October/November 2018 release, he'd be 46 in his debut film. Then he'd be 49 in his follow-up. Unless they were going to specifically make a contained series of Bond films that shows Bond as an older agent, this rules out Elba.

    Eventually, there will be a non-white Bond, and probably in the not-too-distant future, but I don't think that that person will be Elba. My feeling, though, is that if EON deems someone to be the best person for the job, then they should be given a chance to prove themselves before judgment is cast upon them.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Casting Caucasian Actors as Asian characters causes mass controversy and uproar. Casting Black actors as Bond, Great idea! You Go Girl! How progressive. Some double standards.
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