No Time To Die: Production Diary

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Comments

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,288
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    It could be worse ... we could have an American playing Bond.

    LOL. I'd take Elba over (shudder) James Brolin. And that was Cubby!

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited May 2016 Posts: 9,117
    echo wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    It could be worse ... we could have an American playing Bond.

    LOL. I'd take Elba over (shudder) James Brolin. And that was Cubby!

    Jesus. Shocking to say you might even have a point there.

    Although for the record I think Cubby realised he'd dropped the bollock and that's why he begged Rog back before it was too late.

    It would be pretty funny if the gave Elba the job and he did screen tests, got fitted up for the wardrobe etc and then Babs said 'nah this ain't working' and just paid a joke amount to get Dan back.

    She'd be tarnished as a racist bitch for life of course but I'd enjoy the whole spectacle of Elba having the rugged pulled from under him.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Well, we have changed Bond's hair colour, and we are talking about changing his skin colour, so why not change his nationality? Why should he be British? American or French is ok surely?

    Why indeed should he be straight or able bodied? He would still be Bond wouldn't he? What am I saying? Why the Hell should he be male?
  • Posts: 4,325
    NicNac wrote: »
    Well, we have changed Bond's hair colour, and we are talking about changing his skin colour, so why not change his nationality? Why should he be British? American or French is ok surely?

    Why indeed should he be straight or able bodied? He would still be Bond wouldn't he? What am I saying? Why the Hell should he be male?

    Why does he have to be human, why not make him/her a monkey?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited May 2016 Posts: 9,117
    And what's all this bullshit @JawsIsAlive keeps coming out with that it's perfectly fine to have a black Bond because he could still go to Eton etc?

    That's a bit elitist isn't mate? Surely in your dream of a socialist worker utopia it means Bond could come from a chav estate and have no schooling whatsoever to still be the cream of MI6?

    Actually what am I talking about. That's a meritocracy whereas you dream of us all living on our grey collective farms planting turnips and the only films we are allowed to see are party propaganda.
  • Posts: 4,325
    We need some news, we're all going mad ...
  • Posts: 1,092
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Meh, I quite enjoy the fact that I don't have to conform to some ridiculous arbitrary standard of what a "man" is. And I think M's dressing down of Bond is one of the best scenes of the Brosnan era, an excellent way to address Bond's character in the modern world. But different strokes I guess.

    Masculinity and femininity are anything BUT arbitrary. The coercive neutered "masculinity" of our age is a deranged aberration.

    I'm generally of the school of thought that people be should be able to be or do whatever they want with their life, regardless of your archaic perception of what men and women should be. I've always found masculinity to be quite a poisonous concept, but I fear that we're drifting off topic here.

    Contradictions, contradictions everywhere.

    Masculinity as a concept enforces an oppressive stereotype upon the entire population and dictates what is and isn't acceptable for either gender. I'd say that's pretty oppressive. If you want to eat steak and drink bear and get into fights, that's fine (I enjoy 2/3 of those things) just don't force it on anyone else.

    Anyway if we could get back to Bond.

    What planet are you from? That's the stereotype of masculinity. You say people should be what they want to be but masculinity is too much? What a hypocrite. If people want to be strong and muscular then they can. Masculinity doesn't enforce those "oppressive stereotypes" as you say. That's the common BS talk of an SJW keyboard warrior. You seem to be trying to force things on others that disagree with you. That's oppressive wouldn't you say?

    Men can be masculine if they want, but others shouldn't be bullied if they don't want to conform to it's trappings. The expectations of masculine culture can really screw people up, there's a reason male suicide rates are so high. Likewise, women should be able to be as successful and feminine as they want without others demeaning them for it. It's the attitude that mean should be masculine and women should be feminine that is poisonous, I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear about that. This forum is hardly the most masculine bunch, we're all sat on our arses talking about silly films all day. I doubt Arnie would be very proud.

    I find it laughable that the term "social justice warrior" is somehow an insult. Surely providing social justice and greater opportunities is an admirable aim?

    Yep. Reading your junk makes me want to jump off the Tallahatchee Bridge. But more seriously, if male suicide rates are high, I suspect it is because people like you bash men constantly, ridicule masculinity, and confuse them with your "gender" fluidity nonsense. Men are genetically men and women are genetically women. To the extent one attempts to deviate from the norms, they harm themselves.

    Well said. Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of masculinity or femininity. That's fine. But there is a agreeable definition of what is masculine is or what it is not. I don't understand why so many leftist extremists feel this is dangerous. There's this tendency to say everyone is the same but this is nonsense. People are different due to a variety of factors. That is reality.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    We need some news, we're all going mad ...

    Going...??? b-(
  • Posts: 233
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Meh, I quite enjoy the fact that I don't have to conform to some ridiculous arbitrary standard of what a "man" is. And I think M's dressing down of Bond is one of the best scenes of the Brosnan era, an excellent way to address Bond's character in the modern world. But different strokes I guess.

    Masculinity and femininity are anything BUT arbitrary. The coercive neutered "masculinity" of our age is a deranged aberration.

    I'm generally of the school of thought that people be should be able to be or do whatever they want with their life, regardless of your archaic perception of what men and women should be. I've always found masculinity to be quite a poisonous concept, but I fear that we're drifting off topic here.

    Contradictions, contradictions everywhere.

    Masculinity as a concept enforces an oppressive stereotype upon the entire population and dictates what is and isn't acceptable for either gender. I'd say that's pretty oppressive. If you want to eat steak and drink bear and get into fights, that's fine (I enjoy 2/3 of those things) just don't force it on anyone else.

    Anyway if we could get back to Bond.

    What planet are you from? That's the stereotype of masculinity. You say people should be what they want to be but masculinity is too much? What a hypocrite. If people want to be strong and muscular then they can. Masculinity doesn't enforce those "oppressive stereotypes" as you say. That's the common BS talk of an SJW keyboard warrior. You seem to be trying to force things on others that disagree with you. That's oppressive wouldn't you say?

    Men can be masculine if they want, but others shouldn't be bullied if they don't want to conform to it's trappings. The expectations of masculine culture can really screw people up, there's a reason male suicide rates are so high. Likewise, women should be able to be as successful and feminine as they want without others demeaning them for it. It's the attitude that mean should be masculine and women should be feminine that is poisonous, I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear about that. This forum is hardly the most masculine bunch, we're all sat on our arses talking about silly films all day. I doubt Arnie would be very proud.

    I find it laughable that the term "social justice warrior" is somehow an insult. Surely providing social justice and greater opportunities is an admirable aim?

    Yep. Reading your junk makes me want to jump off the Tallahatchee Bridge. But more seriously, if male suicide rates are high, I suspect it is because people like you bash men constantly, ridicule masculinity, and confuse them with your "gender" fluidity nonsense. Men are genetically men and women are genetically women. To the extent one attempts to deviate from the norms, they harm themselves.

    Well said. Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of masculinity or femininity. That's fine. But there is a agreeable definition of what is masculine is or what it is not. I don't understand why so many leftist extremists feel this is dangerous. There's this tendency to say everyone is the same but this is nonsense. People are different due to a variety of factors. That is reality.

    Do you not think that when you assert that there is an ideal of what a "masculine" man should be like, then you place pressure on men, and particularly young males, to conform to that standard. Surely that's a suppression of individuality, I'm talking about embracing the fact that people are different and doing away with the idea that they should be limited to some archaic standard of what is "normal". I'd argue that placing these labels and expectations on people during their formative years is damaging and prevents them from developing in a way that makes them happy. Every person is an eclectic combination of likes, dislikes, tastes, hobbies, sexuality, etc etc, and I don't think we should be judging and defining people based on these.

    Asserting that there is an agreeable standard around masculinity obviously overlooks the tremendous cultural divisions around perceptions of gender, and the evolving way that we have perceived masculinity and male ideals over time. A "manly" man was a very different thing in 1926 compared with 2016.

    A man can chose to identify as "masculine" if he wishes, but that shouldn't be enforced as some sort of optimum condition for the human male. There's a tendency for people to be pass judgement and ridicule things that are different, that needs to stop. I've seen kids being bullied viscously because they happen to be perceived as feminine by other boys, and that is reality.

    Anyway, that's not much to do with Bond, but I guess there isn't much else to talk about in this information vacuum.
  • Posts: 2,483
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Meh, I quite enjoy the fact that I don't have to conform to some ridiculous arbitrary standard of what a "man" is. And I think M's dressing down of Bond is one of the best scenes of the Brosnan era, an excellent way to address Bond's character in the modern world. But different strokes I guess.

    Masculinity and femininity are anything BUT arbitrary. The coercive neutered "masculinity" of our age is a deranged aberration.

    I'm generally of the school of thought that people be should be able to be or do whatever they want with their life, regardless of your archaic perception of what men and women should be. I've always found masculinity to be quite a poisonous concept, but I fear that we're drifting off topic here.

    Contradictions, contradictions everywhere.

    Masculinity as a concept enforces an oppressive stereotype upon the entire population and dictates what is and isn't acceptable for either gender. I'd say that's pretty oppressive. If you want to eat steak and drink bear and get into fights, that's fine (I enjoy 2/3 of those things) just don't force it on anyone else.

    Anyway if we could get back to Bond.

    What planet are you from? That's the stereotype of masculinity. You say people should be what they want to be but masculinity is too much? What a hypocrite. If people want to be strong and muscular then they can. Masculinity doesn't enforce those "oppressive stereotypes" as you say. That's the common BS talk of an SJW keyboard warrior. You seem to be trying to force things on others that disagree with you. That's oppressive wouldn't you say?

    Men can be masculine if they want, but others shouldn't be bullied if they don't want to conform to it's trappings. The expectations of masculine culture can really screw people up, there's a reason male suicide rates are so high. Likewise, women should be able to be as successful and feminine as they want without others demeaning them for it. It's the attitude that mean should be masculine and women should be feminine that is poisonous, I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear about that. This forum is hardly the most masculine bunch, we're all sat on our arses talking about silly films all day. I doubt Arnie would be very proud.

    I find it laughable that the term "social justice warrior" is somehow an insult. Surely providing social justice and greater opportunities is an admirable aim?

    Yep. Reading your junk makes me want to jump off the Tallahatchee Bridge. But more seriously, if male suicide rates are high, I suspect it is because people like you bash men constantly, ridicule masculinity, and confuse them with your "gender" fluidity nonsense. Men are genetically men and women are genetically women. To the extent one attempts to deviate from the norms, they harm themselves.

    Well said. Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of masculinity or femininity. That's fine. But there is a agreeable definition of what is masculine is or what it is not. I don't understand why so many leftist extremists feel this is dangerous. There's this tendency to say everyone is the same but this is nonsense. People are different due to a variety of factors. That is reality.

    Do you not think that when you assert that there is an ideal of what a "masculine" man should be like, then you place pressure on men, and particularly young males, to conform to that standard. Surely that's a suppression of individuality, I'm talking about embracing the fact that people are different and doing away with the idea that they should be limited to some archaic standard of what is "normal". I'd argue that placing these labels and expectations on people during their formative years is damaging and prevents them from developing in a way that makes them happy. Every person is an eclectic combination of likes, dislikes, tastes, hobbies, sexuality, etc etc, and I don't think we should be judging and defining people based on these.

    Asserting that there is an agreeable standard around masculinity obviously overlooks the tremendous cultural divisions around perceptions of gender, and the evolving way that we have perceived masculinity and male ideals over time. A "manly" man was a very different thing in 1926 compared with 2016.

    A man can chose to identify as "masculine" if he wishes, but that shouldn't be enforced as some sort of optimum condition for the human male. There's a tendency for people to be pass judgement and ridicule things that are different, that needs to stop. I've seen kids being bullied viscously because they happen to be perceived as feminine by other boys, and that is reality.

    Anyway, that's not much to do with Bond, but I guess there isn't much else to talk about in this information vacuum.

    By far the strongest sociocultural pressure in the modern western world today is to conform to the Left's notions of tolerance, multiculturalism, non-judgmentalism, cultural relativism and nihilism (all of which are flagrantly hypocritical, by the way). And if you fail to conform, you are remanded to Sensitivity Training, "Diversity" Seminars, and Tunnels of Oppression. That is, if you are fortunate enough not to lose your job and your career. So please spare me this twaddle about how awful it is to be encouraged to behave according to norms that remained relatively constant for 3000 years before the radical egalitarian revolution began in the 60s.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Look to nature. Everyone and everything is equal there. Right?
  • Posts: 2,081
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Meh, I quite enjoy the fact that I don't have to conform to some ridiculous arbitrary standard of what a "man" is. And I think M's dressing down of Bond is one of the best scenes of the Brosnan era, an excellent way to address Bond's character in the modern world. But different strokes I guess.

    Masculinity and femininity are anything BUT arbitrary. The coercive neutered "masculinity" of our age is a deranged aberration.

    I'm generally of the school of thought that people be should be able to be or do whatever they want with their life, regardless of your archaic perception of what men and women should be. I've always found masculinity to be quite a poisonous concept, but I fear that we're drifting off topic here.

    Contradictions, contradictions everywhere.

    Masculinity as a concept enforces an oppressive stereotype upon the entire population and dictates what is and isn't acceptable for either gender. I'd say that's pretty oppressive. If you want to eat steak and drink bear and get into fights, that's fine (I enjoy 2/3 of those things) just don't force it on anyone else.

    Anyway if we could get back to Bond.

    What planet are you from? That's the stereotype of masculinity. You say people should be what they want to be but masculinity is too much? What a hypocrite. If people want to be strong and muscular then they can. Masculinity doesn't enforce those "oppressive stereotypes" as you say. That's the common BS talk of an SJW keyboard warrior. You seem to be trying to force things on others that disagree with you. That's oppressive wouldn't you say?

    Men can be masculine if they want, but others shouldn't be bullied if they don't want to conform to it's trappings. The expectations of masculine culture can really screw people up, there's a reason male suicide rates are so high. Likewise, women should be able to be as successful and feminine as they want without others demeaning them for it. It's the attitude that mean should be masculine and women should be feminine that is poisonous, I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear about that. This forum is hardly the most masculine bunch, we're all sat on our arses talking about silly films all day. I doubt Arnie would be very proud.

    I find it laughable that the term "social justice warrior" is somehow an insult. Surely providing social justice and greater opportunities is an admirable aim?

    Yep. Reading your junk makes me want to jump off the Tallahatchee Bridge. But more seriously, if male suicide rates are high, I suspect it is because people like you bash men constantly, ridicule masculinity, and confuse them with your "gender" fluidity nonsense. Men are genetically men and women are genetically women. To the extent one attempts to deviate from the norms, they harm themselves.

    Well said. Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of masculinity or femininity. That's fine. But there is a agreeable definition of what is masculine is or what it is not. I don't understand why so many leftist extremists feel this is dangerous. There's this tendency to say everyone is the same but this is nonsense. People are different due to a variety of factors. That is reality.

    Do you not think that when you assert that there is an ideal of what a "masculine" man should be like, then you place pressure on men, and particularly young males, to conform to that standard. Surely that's a suppression of individuality, I'm talking about embracing the fact that people are different and doing away with the idea that they should be limited to some archaic standard of what is "normal". I'd argue that placing these labels and expectations on people during their formative years is damaging and prevents them from developing in a way that makes them happy. Every person is an eclectic combination of likes, dislikes, tastes, hobbies, sexuality, etc etc, and I don't think we should be judging and defining people based on these.

    Asserting that there is an agreeable standard around masculinity obviously overlooks the tremendous cultural divisions around perceptions of gender, and the evolving way that we have perceived masculinity and male ideals over time. A "manly" man was a very different thing in 1926 compared with 2016.

    A man can chose to identify as "masculine" if he wishes, but that shouldn't be enforced as some sort of optimum condition for the human male. There's a tendency for people to be pass judgement and ridicule things that are different, that needs to stop. I've seen kids being bullied viscously because they happen to be perceived as feminine by other boys, and that is reality.

    Anyway, that's not much to do with Bond, but I guess there isn't much else to talk about in this information vacuum.

    Very well put.

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited May 2016 Posts: 9,117
    Tuulia wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Meh, I quite enjoy the fact that I don't have to conform to some ridiculous arbitrary standard of what a "man" is. And I think M's dressing down of Bond is one of the best scenes of the Brosnan era, an excellent way to address Bond's character in the modern world. But different strokes I guess.

    Masculinity and femininity are anything BUT arbitrary. The coercive neutered "masculinity" of our age is a deranged aberration.

    I'm generally of the school of thought that people be should be able to be or do whatever they want with their life, regardless of your archaic perception of what men and women should be. I've always found masculinity to be quite a poisonous concept, but I fear that we're drifting off topic here.

    Contradictions, contradictions everywhere.

    Masculinity as a concept enforces an oppressive stereotype upon the entire population and dictates what is and isn't acceptable for either gender. I'd say that's pretty oppressive. If you want to eat steak and drink bear and get into fights, that's fine (I enjoy 2/3 of those things) just don't force it on anyone else.

    Anyway if we could get back to Bond.

    What planet are you from? That's the stereotype of masculinity. You say people should be what they want to be but masculinity is too much? What a hypocrite. If people want to be strong and muscular then they can. Masculinity doesn't enforce those "oppressive stereotypes" as you say. That's the common BS talk of an SJW keyboard warrior. You seem to be trying to force things on others that disagree with you. That's oppressive wouldn't you say?

    Men can be masculine if they want, but others shouldn't be bullied if they don't want to conform to it's trappings. The expectations of masculine culture can really screw people up, there's a reason male suicide rates are so high. Likewise, women should be able to be as successful and feminine as they want without others demeaning them for it. It's the attitude that mean should be masculine and women should be feminine that is poisonous, I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear about that. This forum is hardly the most masculine bunch, we're all sat on our arses talking about silly films all day. I doubt Arnie would be very proud.

    I find it laughable that the term "social justice warrior" is somehow an insult. Surely providing social justice and greater opportunities is an admirable aim?

    Yep. Reading your junk makes me want to jump off the Tallahatchee Bridge. But more seriously, if male suicide rates are high, I suspect it is because people like you bash men constantly, ridicule masculinity, and confuse them with your "gender" fluidity nonsense. Men are genetically men and women are genetically women. To the extent one attempts to deviate from the norms, they harm themselves.

    Well said. Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of masculinity or femininity. That's fine. But there is a agreeable definition of what is masculine is or what it is not. I don't understand why so many leftist extremists feel this is dangerous. There's this tendency to say everyone is the same but this is nonsense. People are different due to a variety of factors. That is reality.

    Do you not think that when you assert that there is an ideal of what a "masculine" man should be like, then you place pressure on men, and particularly young males, to conform to that standard. Surely that's a suppression of individuality, I'm talking about embracing the fact that people are different and doing away with the idea that they should be limited to some archaic standard of what is "normal". I'd argue that placing these labels and expectations on people during their formative years is damaging and prevents them from developing in a way that makes them happy. Every person is an eclectic combination of likes, dislikes, tastes, hobbies, sexuality, etc etc, and I don't think we should be judging and defining people based on these.

    Asserting that there is an agreeable standard around masculinity obviously overlooks the tremendous cultural divisions around perceptions of gender, and the evolving way that we have perceived masculinity and male ideals over time. A "manly" man was a very different thing in 1926 compared with 2016.

    A man can chose to identify as "masculine" if he wishes, but that shouldn't be enforced as some sort of optimum condition for the human male. There's a tendency for people to be pass judgement and ridicule things that are different, that needs to stop. I've seen kids being bullied viscously because they happen to be perceived as feminine by other boys, and that is reality.

    Anyway, that's not much to do with Bond, but I guess there isn't much else to talk about in this information vacuum.

    Very well put.

    Was it?

    Sounds like he's advocating Larry Grayson for Bond next (well next but one obviously. As we all know already Idris has to be next).

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    anchorman_well_that_escalated_quickly_966.jpg
  • Posts: 233
    Tuulia wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Meh, I quite enjoy the fact that I don't have to conform to some ridiculous arbitrary standard of what a "man" is. And I think M's dressing down of Bond is one of the best scenes of the Brosnan era, an excellent way to address Bond's character in the modern world. But different strokes I guess.

    Masculinity and femininity are anything BUT arbitrary. The coercive neutered "masculinity" of our age is a deranged aberration.

    I'm generally of the school of thought that people be should be able to be or do whatever they want with their life, regardless of your archaic perception of what men and women should be. I've always found masculinity to be quite a poisonous concept, but I fear that we're drifting off topic here.

    Contradictions, contradictions everywhere.

    Masculinity as a concept enforces an oppressive stereotype upon the entire population and dictates what is and isn't acceptable for either gender. I'd say that's pretty oppressive. If you want to eat steak and drink bear and get into fights, that's fine (I enjoy 2/3 of those things) just don't force it on anyone else.

    Anyway if we could get back to Bond.

    What planet are you from? That's the stereotype of masculinity. You say people should be what they want to be but masculinity is too much? What a hypocrite. If people want to be strong and muscular then they can. Masculinity doesn't enforce those "oppressive stereotypes" as you say. That's the common BS talk of an SJW keyboard warrior. You seem to be trying to force things on others that disagree with you. That's oppressive wouldn't you say?

    Men can be masculine if they want, but others shouldn't be bullied if they don't want to conform to it's trappings. The expectations of masculine culture can really screw people up, there's a reason male suicide rates are so high. Likewise, women should be able to be as successful and feminine as they want without others demeaning them for it. It's the attitude that mean should be masculine and women should be feminine that is poisonous, I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear about that. This forum is hardly the most masculine bunch, we're all sat on our arses talking about silly films all day. I doubt Arnie would be very proud.

    I find it laughable that the term "social justice warrior" is somehow an insult. Surely providing social justice and greater opportunities is an admirable aim?

    Yep. Reading your junk makes me want to jump off the Tallahatchee Bridge. But more seriously, if male suicide rates are high, I suspect it is because people like you bash men constantly, ridicule masculinity, and confuse them with your "gender" fluidity nonsense. Men are genetically men and women are genetically women. To the extent one attempts to deviate from the norms, they harm themselves.

    Well said. Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of masculinity or femininity. That's fine. But there is a agreeable definition of what is masculine is or what it is not. I don't understand why so many leftist extremists feel this is dangerous. There's this tendency to say everyone is the same but this is nonsense. People are different due to a variety of factors. That is reality.

    Do you not think that when you assert that there is an ideal of what a "masculine" man should be like, then you place pressure on men, and particularly young males, to conform to that standard. Surely that's a suppression of individuality, I'm talking about embracing the fact that people are different and doing away with the idea that they should be limited to some archaic standard of what is "normal". I'd argue that placing these labels and expectations on people during their formative years is damaging and prevents them from developing in a way that makes them happy. Every person is an eclectic combination of likes, dislikes, tastes, hobbies, sexuality, etc etc, and I don't think we should be judging and defining people based on these.

    Asserting that there is an agreeable standard around masculinity obviously overlooks the tremendous cultural divisions around perceptions of gender, and the evolving way that we have perceived masculinity and male ideals over time. A "manly" man was a very different thing in 1926 compared with 2016.

    A man can chose to identify as "masculine" if he wishes, but that shouldn't be enforced as some sort of optimum condition for the human male. There's a tendency for people to be pass judgement and ridicule things that are different, that needs to stop. I've seen kids being bullied viscously because they happen to be perceived as feminine by other boys, and that is reality.

    Anyway, that's not much to do with Bond, but I guess there isn't much else to talk about in this information vacuum.

    Very well put.

    Was it?

    Sounds like he's advocating Larry Grayson for Bond next (well next but one obviously. As we all know already Idris has to be next).

    I know you're being facetious, but I'd like to make clear that I'm firmly a Fassbender man, as unlikely as that may be considering the direction of his career.
  • edited May 2016 Posts: 2,081
    Tuulia wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Meh, I quite enjoy the fact that I don't have to conform to some ridiculous arbitrary standard of what a "man" is. And I think M's dressing down of Bond is one of the best scenes of the Brosnan era, an excellent way to address Bond's character in the modern world. But different strokes I guess.

    Masculinity and femininity are anything BUT arbitrary. The coercive neutered "masculinity" of our age is a deranged aberration.

    I'm generally of the school of thought that people be should be able to be or do whatever they want with their life, regardless of your archaic perception of what men and women should be. I've always found masculinity to be quite a poisonous concept, but I fear that we're drifting off topic here.

    Contradictions, contradictions everywhere.

    Masculinity as a concept enforces an oppressive stereotype upon the entire population and dictates what is and isn't acceptable for either gender. I'd say that's pretty oppressive. If you want to eat steak and drink bear and get into fights, that's fine (I enjoy 2/3 of those things) just don't force it on anyone else.

    Anyway if we could get back to Bond.

    What planet are you from? That's the stereotype of masculinity. You say people should be what they want to be but masculinity is too much? What a hypocrite. If people want to be strong and muscular then they can. Masculinity doesn't enforce those "oppressive stereotypes" as you say. That's the common BS talk of an SJW keyboard warrior. You seem to be trying to force things on others that disagree with you. That's oppressive wouldn't you say?

    Men can be masculine if they want, but others shouldn't be bullied if they don't want to conform to it's trappings. The expectations of masculine culture can really screw people up, there's a reason male suicide rates are so high. Likewise, women should be able to be as successful and feminine as they want without others demeaning them for it. It's the attitude that mean should be masculine and women should be feminine that is poisonous, I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear about that. This forum is hardly the most masculine bunch, we're all sat on our arses talking about silly films all day. I doubt Arnie would be very proud.

    I find it laughable that the term "social justice warrior" is somehow an insult. Surely providing social justice and greater opportunities is an admirable aim?

    Yep. Reading your junk makes me want to jump off the Tallahatchee Bridge. But more seriously, if male suicide rates are high, I suspect it is because people like you bash men constantly, ridicule masculinity, and confuse them with your "gender" fluidity nonsense. Men are genetically men and women are genetically women. To the extent one attempts to deviate from the norms, they harm themselves.

    Well said. Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of masculinity or femininity. That's fine. But there is a agreeable definition of what is masculine is or what it is not. I don't understand why so many leftist extremists feel this is dangerous. There's this tendency to say everyone is the same but this is nonsense. People are different due to a variety of factors. That is reality.

    Do you not think that when you assert that there is an ideal of what a "masculine" man should be like, then you place pressure on men, and particularly young males, to conform to that standard. Surely that's a suppression of individuality, I'm talking about embracing the fact that people are different and doing away with the idea that they should be limited to some archaic standard of what is "normal". I'd argue that placing these labels and expectations on people during their formative years is damaging and prevents them from developing in a way that makes them happy. Every person is an eclectic combination of likes, dislikes, tastes, hobbies, sexuality, etc etc, and I don't think we should be judging and defining people based on these.

    Asserting that there is an agreeable standard around masculinity obviously overlooks the tremendous cultural divisions around perceptions of gender, and the evolving way that we have perceived masculinity and male ideals over time. A "manly" man was a very different thing in 1926 compared with 2016.

    A man can chose to identify as "masculine" if he wishes, but that shouldn't be enforced as some sort of optimum condition for the human male. There's a tendency for people to be pass judgement and ridicule things that are different, that needs to stop. I've seen kids being bullied viscously because they happen to be perceived as feminine by other boys, and that is reality.

    Anyway, that's not much to do with Bond, but I guess there isn't much else to talk about in this information vacuum.

    Very well put.

    Was it?

    Sounds like he's advocating Larry Grayson for Bond next (well next but one obviously. As we all know already Idris has to be next).

    In my opinion, yes, it was. I don't agree with every single thing @JawsIsAlive - or anyone else - has said, but that was a good post. I'm not of the opinion that men are a certain way and women are a certain way and that's that, and modern equality ideals regardless of gender, ethnic background or skin color, or sexual orientation, etc. are crap and things should just be the way they used to be forever, and white male supremacy being cool and all that.

    As for Bond, well, that wasn't the subject of that post. Anyway, I'm not familiar with Larry Grayson (I checked and found one guy by that name, but he died long ago), so I son't know what you meant with that. I guess I missed where @JawsIsAlive said Elba should be the next Bond - I seem to remember a comment saying that was not his point.

    edit: Oh, there, he just said it again. (Thanks.)
  • Posts: 233
    Tuulia wrote: »
    Tuulia wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Meh, I quite enjoy the fact that I don't have to conform to some ridiculous arbitrary standard of what a "man" is. And I think M's dressing down of Bond is one of the best scenes of the Brosnan era, an excellent way to address Bond's character in the modern world. But different strokes I guess.

    Masculinity and femininity are anything BUT arbitrary. The coercive neutered "masculinity" of our age is a deranged aberration.

    I'm generally of the school of thought that people be should be able to be or do whatever they want with their life, regardless of your archaic perception of what men and women should be. I've always found masculinity to be quite a poisonous concept, but I fear that we're drifting off topic here.

    Contradictions, contradictions everywhere.

    Masculinity as a concept enforces an oppressive stereotype upon the entire population and dictates what is and isn't acceptable for either gender. I'd say that's pretty oppressive. If you want to eat steak and drink bear and get into fights, that's fine (I enjoy 2/3 of those things) just don't force it on anyone else.

    Anyway if we could get back to Bond.

    What planet are you from? That's the stereotype of masculinity. You say people should be what they want to be but masculinity is too much? What a hypocrite. If people want to be strong and muscular then they can. Masculinity doesn't enforce those "oppressive stereotypes" as you say. That's the common BS talk of an SJW keyboard warrior. You seem to be trying to force things on others that disagree with you. That's oppressive wouldn't you say?

    Men can be masculine if they want, but others shouldn't be bullied if they don't want to conform to it's trappings. The expectations of masculine culture can really screw people up, there's a reason male suicide rates are so high. Likewise, women should be able to be as successful and feminine as they want without others demeaning them for it. It's the attitude that mean should be masculine and women should be feminine that is poisonous, I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear about that. This forum is hardly the most masculine bunch, we're all sat on our arses talking about silly films all day. I doubt Arnie would be very proud.

    I find it laughable that the term "social justice warrior" is somehow an insult. Surely providing social justice and greater opportunities is an admirable aim?

    Yep. Reading your junk makes me want to jump off the Tallahatchee Bridge. But more seriously, if male suicide rates are high, I suspect it is because people like you bash men constantly, ridicule masculinity, and confuse them with your "gender" fluidity nonsense. Men are genetically men and women are genetically women. To the extent one attempts to deviate from the norms, they harm themselves.

    Well said. Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of masculinity or femininity. That's fine. But there is a agreeable definition of what is masculine is or what it is not. I don't understand why so many leftist extremists feel this is dangerous. There's this tendency to say everyone is the same but this is nonsense. People are different due to a variety of factors. That is reality.

    Do you not think that when you assert that there is an ideal of what a "masculine" man should be like, then you place pressure on men, and particularly young males, to conform to that standard. Surely that's a suppression of individuality, I'm talking about embracing the fact that people are different and doing away with the idea that they should be limited to some archaic standard of what is "normal". I'd argue that placing these labels and expectations on people during their formative years is damaging and prevents them from developing in a way that makes them happy. Every person is an eclectic combination of likes, dislikes, tastes, hobbies, sexuality, etc etc, and I don't think we should be judging and defining people based on these.

    Asserting that there is an agreeable standard around masculinity obviously overlooks the tremendous cultural divisions around perceptions of gender, and the evolving way that we have perceived masculinity and male ideals over time. A "manly" man was a very different thing in 1926 compared with 2016.

    A man can chose to identify as "masculine" if he wishes, but that shouldn't be enforced as some sort of optimum condition for the human male. There's a tendency for people to be pass judgement and ridicule things that are different, that needs to stop. I've seen kids being bullied viscously because they happen to be perceived as feminine by other boys, and that is reality.

    Anyway, that's not much to do with Bond, but I guess there isn't much else to talk about in this information vacuum.

    Very well put.

    Was it?

    Sounds like he's advocating Larry Grayson for Bond next (well next but one obviously. As we all know already Idris has to be next).

    In my opinion, yes, it was. I don't agree with every single thing @JawsIsAlive - or anyone else - has said, but that was a good post. I'm not of the opinion that men are a certain way and women are a certain way and that's that, and modern equality ideals regardless of gender, ethnic background or skin color, or sexual orientation, etc. are crap and things should just be the way they used to be forever, and white male supremacy being cool and all that.

    As for Bond, well, that wasn't the subject of that post. Anyway, I'm not familiar with Larry Grayson (I checked and found one guy by that name, but he died long ago), so I son't know what you meant with that. I guess I missed where @JawsIsAlive said Elba should be the next Bond - I seem to remember a comment saying that was not his point.

    edit: Oh, there, he just said it again. (Thanks.)

    Nice one, reassuring to see the whole Bond fandom isn't barking mad.
  • Posts: 1,092
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Meh, I quite enjoy the fact that I don't have to conform to some ridiculous arbitrary standard of what a "man" is. And I think M's dressing down of Bond is one of the best scenes of the Brosnan era, an excellent way to address Bond's character in the modern world. But different strokes I guess.

    Masculinity and femininity are anything BUT arbitrary. The coercive neutered "masculinity" of our age is a deranged aberration.

    I'm generally of the school of thought that people be should be able to be or do whatever they want with their life, regardless of your archaic perception of what men and women should be. I've always found masculinity to be quite a poisonous concept, but I fear that we're drifting off topic here.

    Contradictions, contradictions everywhere.

    Masculinity as a concept enforces an oppressive stereotype upon the entire population and dictates what is and isn't acceptable for either gender. I'd say that's pretty oppressive. If you want to eat steak and drink bear and get into fights, that's fine (I enjoy 2/3 of those things) just don't force it on anyone else.

    Anyway if we could get back to Bond.

    What planet are you from? That's the stereotype of masculinity. You say people should be what they want to be but masculinity is too much? What a hypocrite. If people want to be strong and muscular then they can. Masculinity doesn't enforce those "oppressive stereotypes" as you say. That's the common BS talk of an SJW keyboard warrior. You seem to be trying to force things on others that disagree with you. That's oppressive wouldn't you say?

    Men can be masculine if they want, but others shouldn't be bullied if they don't want to conform to it's trappings. The expectations of masculine culture can really screw people up, there's a reason male suicide rates are so high. Likewise, women should be able to be as successful and feminine as they want without others demeaning them for it. It's the attitude that mean should be masculine and women should be feminine that is poisonous, I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear about that. This forum is hardly the most masculine bunch, we're all sat on our arses talking about silly films all day. I doubt Arnie would be very proud.

    I find it laughable that the term "social justice warrior" is somehow an insult. Surely providing social justice and greater opportunities is an admirable aim?

    Yep. Reading your junk makes me want to jump off the Tallahatchee Bridge. But more seriously, if male suicide rates are high, I suspect it is because people like you bash men constantly, ridicule masculinity, and confuse them with your "gender" fluidity nonsense. Men are genetically men and women are genetically women. To the extent one attempts to deviate from the norms, they harm themselves.

    Well said. Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of masculinity or femininity. That's fine. But there is a agreeable definition of what is masculine is or what it is not. I don't understand why so many leftist extremists feel this is dangerous. There's this tendency to say everyone is the same but this is nonsense. People are different due to a variety of factors. That is reality.

    Do you not think that when you assert that there is an ideal of what a "masculine" man should be like, then you place pressure on men, and particularly young males, to conform to that standard. Surely that's a suppression of individuality, I'm talking about embracing the fact that people are different and doing away with the idea that they should be limited to some archaic standard of what is "normal". I'd argue that placing these labels and expectations on people during their formative years is damaging and prevents them from developing in a way that makes them happy. Every person is an eclectic combination of likes, dislikes, tastes, hobbies, sexuality, etc etc, and I don't think we should be judging and defining people based on these.

    Asserting that there is an agreeable standard around masculinity obviously overlooks the tremendous cultural divisions around perceptions of gender, and the evolving way that we have perceived masculinity and male ideals over time. A "manly" man was a very different thing in 1926 compared with 2016.

    A man can chose to identify as "masculine" if he wishes, but that shouldn't be enforced as some sort of optimum condition for the human male. There's a tendency for people to be pass judgement and ridicule things that are different, that needs to stop. I've seen kids being bullied viscously because they happen to be perceived as feminine by other boys, and that is reality.

    Anyway, that's not much to do with Bond, but I guess there isn't much else to talk about in this information vacuum.

    By far the strongest sociocultural pressure in the modern western world today is to conform to the Left's notions of tolerance, multiculturalism, non-judgmentalism, cultural relativism and nihilism (all of which are flagrantly hypocritical, by the way). And if you fail to conform, you are remanded to Sensitivity Training, "Diversity" Seminars, and Tunnels of Oppression. That is, if you are fortunate enough not to lose your job and your career. So please spare me this twaddle about how awful it is to be encouraged to behave according to norms that remained relatively constant for 3000 years before the radical egalitarian revolution began in the 60s.

    Yep. Leftists are absolute crazy people, PC Nazis, and the most intolerant people I have ever had the displeasure to interact with.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Tuulia wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Meh, I quite enjoy the fact that I don't have to conform to some ridiculous arbitrary standard of what a "man" is. And I think M's dressing down of Bond is one of the best scenes of the Brosnan era, an excellent way to address Bond's character in the modern world. But different strokes I guess.

    Masculinity and femininity are anything BUT arbitrary. The coercive neutered "masculinity" of our age is a deranged aberration.

    I'm generally of the school of thought that people be should be able to be or do whatever they want with their life, regardless of your archaic perception of what men and women should be. I've always found masculinity to be quite a poisonous concept, but I fear that we're drifting off topic here.

    Contradictions, contradictions everywhere.

    Masculinity as a concept enforces an oppressive stereotype upon the entire population and dictates what is and isn't acceptable for either gender. I'd say that's pretty oppressive. If you want to eat steak and drink bear and get into fights, that's fine (I enjoy 2/3 of those things) just don't force it on anyone else.

    Anyway if we could get back to Bond.

    What planet are you from? That's the stereotype of masculinity. You say people should be what they want to be but masculinity is too much? What a hypocrite. If people want to be strong and muscular then they can. Masculinity doesn't enforce those "oppressive stereotypes" as you say. That's the common BS talk of an SJW keyboard warrior. You seem to be trying to force things on others that disagree with you. That's oppressive wouldn't you say?

    Men can be masculine if they want, but others shouldn't be bullied if they don't want to conform to it's trappings. The expectations of masculine culture can really screw people up, there's a reason male suicide rates are so high. Likewise, women should be able to be as successful and feminine as they want without others demeaning them for it. It's the attitude that mean should be masculine and women should be feminine that is poisonous, I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear about that. This forum is hardly the most masculine bunch, we're all sat on our arses talking about silly films all day. I doubt Arnie would be very proud.

    I find it laughable that the term "social justice warrior" is somehow an insult. Surely providing social justice and greater opportunities is an admirable aim?

    Yep. Reading your junk makes me want to jump off the Tallahatchee Bridge. But more seriously, if male suicide rates are high, I suspect it is because people like you bash men constantly, ridicule masculinity, and confuse them with your "gender" fluidity nonsense. Men are genetically men and women are genetically women. To the extent one attempts to deviate from the norms, they harm themselves.

    Well said. Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of masculinity or femininity. That's fine. But there is a agreeable definition of what is masculine is or what it is not. I don't understand why so many leftist extremists feel this is dangerous. There's this tendency to say everyone is the same but this is nonsense. People are different due to a variety of factors. That is reality.

    Do you not think that when you assert that there is an ideal of what a "masculine" man should be like, then you place pressure on men, and particularly young males, to conform to that standard. Surely that's a suppression of individuality, I'm talking about embracing the fact that people are different and doing away with the idea that they should be limited to some archaic standard of what is "normal". I'd argue that placing these labels and expectations on people during their formative years is damaging and prevents them from developing in a way that makes them happy. Every person is an eclectic combination of likes, dislikes, tastes, hobbies, sexuality, etc etc, and I don't think we should be judging and defining people based on these.

    Asserting that there is an agreeable standard around masculinity obviously overlooks the tremendous cultural divisions around perceptions of gender, and the evolving way that we have perceived masculinity and male ideals over time. A "manly" man was a very different thing in 1926 compared with 2016.

    A man can chose to identify as "masculine" if he wishes, but that shouldn't be enforced as some sort of optimum condition for the human male. There's a tendency for people to be pass judgement and ridicule things that are different, that needs to stop. I've seen kids being bullied viscously because they happen to be perceived as feminine by other boys, and that is reality.

    Anyway, that's not much to do with Bond, but I guess there isn't much else to talk about in this information vacuum.

    Very well put.

    Was it?

    Sounds like he's advocating Larry Grayson for Bond next (well next but one obviously. As we all know already Idris has to be next).

    I know you're being facetious, but I'd like to make clear that I'm firmly a Fassbender man, as unlikely as that may be considering the direction of his career.

    At least you can recognise when someone is ripping the piss old man unlike quite a few on here.

    Fassbender I could certainly live with but as you say would he consider it a good move for his current career trajectory and more crucially would EON want to pay his rate?
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited May 2016 Posts: 10,591
    Let's get this thread back on track, shall we?

    What do we make of this?

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    HIDDLESTON should be the next Bond

    Look at this trailer: He oozes Bond imho. He has the looks, the body, the acting ability.
    Anyway, I can't wait to see that movie:

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LKPghZ5cc_E"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,537
    jake24 wrote: »
    Let's get this thread back on track, shall we?

    What do we make of this?


    Certainly the most flustered I've ever seen him get when talking about that thing he wishes would go away.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I can't wait for High Rise either. That trailer is tripping - looks surreal.
  • Posts: 233
    Tuulia wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Meh, I quite enjoy the fact that I don't have to conform to some ridiculous arbitrary standard of what a "man" is. And I think M's dressing down of Bond is one of the best scenes of the Brosnan era, an excellent way to address Bond's character in the modern world. But different strokes I guess.

    Masculinity and femininity are anything BUT arbitrary. The coercive neutered "masculinity" of our age is a deranged aberration.

    I'm generally of the school of thought that people be should be able to be or do whatever they want with their life, regardless of your archaic perception of what men and women should be. I've always found masculinity to be quite a poisonous concept, but I fear that we're drifting off topic here.

    Contradictions, contradictions everywhere.

    Masculinity as a concept enforces an oppressive stereotype upon the entire population and dictates what is and isn't acceptable for either gender. I'd say that's pretty oppressive. If you want to eat steak and drink bear and get into fights, that's fine (I enjoy 2/3 of those things) just don't force it on anyone else.

    Anyway if we could get back to Bond.

    What planet are you from? That's the stereotype of masculinity. You say people should be what they want to be but masculinity is too much? What a hypocrite. If people want to be strong and muscular then they can. Masculinity doesn't enforce those "oppressive stereotypes" as you say. That's the common BS talk of an SJW keyboard warrior. You seem to be trying to force things on others that disagree with you. That's oppressive wouldn't you say?

    Men can be masculine if they want, but others shouldn't be bullied if they don't want to conform to it's trappings. The expectations of masculine culture can really screw people up, there's a reason male suicide rates are so high. Likewise, women should be able to be as successful and feminine as they want without others demeaning them for it. It's the attitude that mean should be masculine and women should be feminine that is poisonous, I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear about that. This forum is hardly the most masculine bunch, we're all sat on our arses talking about silly films all day. I doubt Arnie would be very proud.

    I find it laughable that the term "social justice warrior" is somehow an insult. Surely providing social justice and greater opportunities is an admirable aim?

    Yep. Reading your junk makes me want to jump off the Tallahatchee Bridge. But more seriously, if male suicide rates are high, I suspect it is because people like you bash men constantly, ridicule masculinity, and confuse them with your "gender" fluidity nonsense. Men are genetically men and women are genetically women. To the extent one attempts to deviate from the norms, they harm themselves.

    Well said. Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of masculinity or femininity. That's fine. But there is a agreeable definition of what is masculine is or what it is not. I don't understand why so many leftist extremists feel this is dangerous. There's this tendency to say everyone is the same but this is nonsense. People are different due to a variety of factors. That is reality.

    Do you not think that when you assert that there is an ideal of what a "masculine" man should be like, then you place pressure on men, and particularly young males, to conform to that standard. Surely that's a suppression of individuality, I'm talking about embracing the fact that people are different and doing away with the idea that they should be limited to some archaic standard of what is "normal". I'd argue that placing these labels and expectations on people during their formative years is damaging and prevents them from developing in a way that makes them happy. Every person is an eclectic combination of likes, dislikes, tastes, hobbies, sexuality, etc etc, and I don't think we should be judging and defining people based on these.

    Asserting that there is an agreeable standard around masculinity obviously overlooks the tremendous cultural divisions around perceptions of gender, and the evolving way that we have perceived masculinity and male ideals over time. A "manly" man was a very different thing in 1926 compared with 2016.

    A man can chose to identify as "masculine" if he wishes, but that shouldn't be enforced as some sort of optimum condition for the human male. There's a tendency for people to be pass judgement and ridicule things that are different, that needs to stop. I've seen kids being bullied viscously because they happen to be perceived as feminine by other boys, and that is reality.

    Anyway, that's not much to do with Bond, but I guess there isn't much else to talk about in this information vacuum.

    Very well put.

    Was it?

    Sounds like he's advocating Larry Grayson for Bond next (well next but one obviously. As we all know already Idris has to be next).

    I know you're being facetious, but I'd like to make clear that I'm firmly a Fassbender man, as unlikely as that may be considering the direction of his career.

    At least you can recognise when someone is ripping the piss old man unlike quite a few on here.

    Fassbender I could certainly live with but as you say would he consider it a good move for his current career trajectory and more crucially would EON want to pay his rate?

    I can't see it happening, and it's why I think Turner is looking like a fairly likely prospect. He's got time on his side and he'd probably do it for a fiver and a pack of quavers.

    Honestly I think I'd like Dan back in any case, just to clear up the whole Spectre/Blofeld mess they've made with the continuity.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Tuulia wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Meh, I quite enjoy the fact that I don't have to conform to some ridiculous arbitrary standard of what a "man" is. And I think M's dressing down of Bond is one of the best scenes of the Brosnan era, an excellent way to address Bond's character in the modern world. But different strokes I guess.

    Masculinity and femininity are anything BUT arbitrary. The coercive neutered "masculinity" of our age is a deranged aberration.

    I'm generally of the school of thought that people be should be able to be or do whatever they want with their life, regardless of your archaic perception of what men and women should be. I've always found masculinity to be quite a poisonous concept, but I fear that we're drifting off topic here.

    Contradictions, contradictions everywhere.

    Masculinity as a concept enforces an oppressive stereotype upon the entire population and dictates what is and isn't acceptable for either gender. I'd say that's pretty oppressive. If you want to eat steak and drink bear and get into fights, that's fine (I enjoy 2/3 of those things) just don't force it on anyone else.

    Anyway if we could get back to Bond.

    What planet are you from? That's the stereotype of masculinity. You say people should be what they want to be but masculinity is too much? What a hypocrite. If people want to be strong and muscular then they can. Masculinity doesn't enforce those "oppressive stereotypes" as you say. That's the common BS talk of an SJW keyboard warrior. You seem to be trying to force things on others that disagree with you. That's oppressive wouldn't you say?

    Men can be masculine if they want, but others shouldn't be bullied if they don't want to conform to it's trappings. The expectations of masculine culture can really screw people up, there's a reason male suicide rates are so high. Likewise, women should be able to be as successful and feminine as they want without others demeaning them for it. It's the attitude that mean should be masculine and women should be feminine that is poisonous, I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear about that. This forum is hardly the most masculine bunch, we're all sat on our arses talking about silly films all day. I doubt Arnie would be very proud.

    I find it laughable that the term "social justice warrior" is somehow an insult. Surely providing social justice and greater opportunities is an admirable aim?

    Yep. Reading your junk makes me want to jump off the Tallahatchee Bridge. But more seriously, if male suicide rates are high, I suspect it is because people like you bash men constantly, ridicule masculinity, and confuse them with your "gender" fluidity nonsense. Men are genetically men and women are genetically women. To the extent one attempts to deviate from the norms, they harm themselves.

    Well said. Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of masculinity or femininity. That's fine. But there is a agreeable definition of what is masculine is or what it is not. I don't understand why so many leftist extremists feel this is dangerous. There's this tendency to say everyone is the same but this is nonsense. People are different due to a variety of factors. That is reality.

    Do you not think that when you assert that there is an ideal of what a "masculine" man should be like, then you place pressure on men, and particularly young males, to conform to that standard. Surely that's a suppression of individuality, I'm talking about embracing the fact that people are different and doing away with the idea that they should be limited to some archaic standard of what is "normal". I'd argue that placing these labels and expectations on people during their formative years is damaging and prevents them from developing in a way that makes them happy. Every person is an eclectic combination of likes, dislikes, tastes, hobbies, sexuality, etc etc, and I don't think we should be judging and defining people based on these.

    Asserting that there is an agreeable standard around masculinity obviously overlooks the tremendous cultural divisions around perceptions of gender, and the evolving way that we have perceived masculinity and male ideals over time. A "manly" man was a very different thing in 1926 compared with 2016.

    A man can chose to identify as "masculine" if he wishes, but that shouldn't be enforced as some sort of optimum condition for the human male. There's a tendency for people to be pass judgement and ridicule things that are different, that needs to stop. I've seen kids being bullied viscously because they happen to be perceived as feminine by other boys, and that is reality.

    Anyway, that's not much to do with Bond, but I guess there isn't much else to talk about in this information vacuum.

    Very well put.

    Was it?

    Sounds like he's advocating Larry Grayson for Bond next (well next but one obviously. As we all know already Idris has to be next).

    I know you're being facetious, but I'd like to make clear that I'm firmly a Fassbender man, as unlikely as that may be considering the direction of his career.

    At least you can recognise when someone is ripping the piss old man unlike quite a few on here.

    Fassbender I could certainly live with but as you say would he consider it a good move for his current career trajectory and more crucially would EON want to pay his rate?

    I can't see it happening, and it's why I think Turner is looking like a fairly likely prospect. He's got time on his side and he'd probably do it for a fiver and a pack of quavers.

    Honestly I think I'd like Dan back in any case, just to clear up the whole Spectre/Blofeld mess they've made with the continuity.

    People do strange things for quavers:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjftSTGCMAEk2nF.jpg

    I think Dan coming back is the best available option even if it means revisiting stepbrothergate.

    Hopefully they'll just have the character as Blofeld just doing evil shit and never mention it again.

  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Tuulia wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Meh, I quite enjoy the fact that I don't have to conform to some ridiculous arbitrary standard of what a "man" is. And I think M's dressing down of Bond is one of the best scenes of the Brosnan era, an excellent way to address Bond's character in the modern world. But different strokes I guess.

    Masculinity and femininity are anything BUT arbitrary. The coercive neutered "masculinity" of our age is a deranged aberration.

    I'm generally of the school of thought that people be should be able to be or do whatever they want with their life, regardless of your archaic perception of what men and women should be. I've always found masculinity to be quite a poisonous concept, but I fear that we're drifting off topic here.

    Contradictions, contradictions everywhere.

    Masculinity as a concept enforces an oppressive stereotype upon the entire population and dictates what is and isn't acceptable for either gender. I'd say that's pretty oppressive. If you want to eat steak and drink bear and get into fights, that's fine (I enjoy 2/3 of those things) just don't force it on anyone else.

    Anyway if we could get back to Bond.

    What planet are you from? That's the stereotype of masculinity. You say people should be what they want to be but masculinity is too much? What a hypocrite. If people want to be strong and muscular then they can. Masculinity doesn't enforce those "oppressive stereotypes" as you say. That's the common BS talk of an SJW keyboard warrior. You seem to be trying to force things on others that disagree with you. That's oppressive wouldn't you say?

    Men can be masculine if they want, but others shouldn't be bullied if they don't want to conform to it's trappings. The expectations of masculine culture can really screw people up, there's a reason male suicide rates are so high. Likewise, women should be able to be as successful and feminine as they want without others demeaning them for it. It's the attitude that mean should be masculine and women should be feminine that is poisonous, I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear about that. This forum is hardly the most masculine bunch, we're all sat on our arses talking about silly films all day. I doubt Arnie would be very proud.

    I find it laughable that the term "social justice warrior" is somehow an insult. Surely providing social justice and greater opportunities is an admirable aim?

    Yep. Reading your junk makes me want to jump off the Tallahatchee Bridge. But more seriously, if male suicide rates are high, I suspect it is because people like you bash men constantly, ridicule masculinity, and confuse them with your "gender" fluidity nonsense. Men are genetically men and women are genetically women. To the extent one attempts to deviate from the norms, they harm themselves.

    Well said. Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of masculinity or femininity. That's fine. But there is a agreeable definition of what is masculine is or what it is not. I don't understand why so many leftist extremists feel this is dangerous. There's this tendency to say everyone is the same but this is nonsense. People are different due to a variety of factors. That is reality.

    Do you not think that when you assert that there is an ideal of what a "masculine" man should be like, then you place pressure on men, and particularly young males, to conform to that standard. Surely that's a suppression of individuality, I'm talking about embracing the fact that people are different and doing away with the idea that they should be limited to some archaic standard of what is "normal". I'd argue that placing these labels and expectations on people during their formative years is damaging and prevents them from developing in a way that makes them happy. Every person is an eclectic combination of likes, dislikes, tastes, hobbies, sexuality, etc etc, and I don't think we should be judging and defining people based on these.

    Asserting that there is an agreeable standard around masculinity obviously overlooks the tremendous cultural divisions around perceptions of gender, and the evolving way that we have perceived masculinity and male ideals over time. A "manly" man was a very different thing in 1926 compared with 2016.

    A man can chose to identify as "masculine" if he wishes, but that shouldn't be enforced as some sort of optimum condition for the human male. There's a tendency for people to be pass judgement and ridicule things that are different, that needs to stop. I've seen kids being bullied viscously because they happen to be perceived as feminine by other boys, and that is reality.

    Anyway, that's not much to do with Bond, but I guess there isn't much else to talk about in this information vacuum.

    Very well put.

    Was it?

    Sounds like he's advocating Larry Grayson for Bond next (well next but one obviously. As we all know already Idris has to be next).

    I know you're being facetious, but I'd like to make clear that I'm firmly a Fassbender man, as unlikely as that may be considering the direction of his career.

    At least you can recognise when someone is ripping the piss old man unlike quite a few on here.

    Fassbender I could certainly live with but as you say would he consider it a good move for his current career trajectory and more crucially would EON want to pay his rate?

    I can't see it happening, and it's why I think Turner is looking like a fairly likely prospect. He's got time on his side and he'd probably do it for a fiver and a pack of quavers.

    Honestly I think I'd like Dan back in any case, just to clear up the whole Spectre/Blofeld mess they've made with the continuity.

    People do strange things for quavers:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjftSTGCMAEk2nF.jpg

    I think Dan coming back is the best available option even if it means revisiting stepbrothergate.

    Hopefully they'll just have the character as Blofeld just doing evil shit and never mention it again.

    I could see Craig returning but with Babs I fear fosterbro maybe worse.
  • Posts: 1,631
    Hopefully they'll just have the character as Blofeld just doing evil shit and never mention it again.

    Or better yet, just forget Blofeld altogether for a few films. It would mean passing up an opportunity to get a faithful adaptation of You Only Live Twice, but it would be a way out of the whole 'stepbrother' nonsense. I'd just let the character sit out a few films, wait until a new actor takes over, and start slowly building up to Blofeld's return with an actual plan stretching over a few films rather than trying to retroactively tie him into films he wasn't a part of.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    dalton wrote: »
    Hopefully they'll just have the character as Blofeld just doing evil shit and never mention it again.

    Or better yet, just forget Blofeld altogether for a few films. It would mean passing up an opportunity to get a faithful adaptation of You Only Live Twice, but it would be a way out of the whole 'stepbrother' nonsense. I'd just let the character sit out a few films, wait until a new actor takes over, and start slowly building up to Blofeld's return with an actual plan stretching over a few films rather than trying to retroactively tie him into films he wasn't a part of.

    I'm sorry for me it would loose it's momentum and relevance.

    Either ignore Swann and just reintroduce Blofeld later or..

    Just do YOLT thing...

    Or just ignore and ease back into old timeline/storyline.

    ....or any other revenge plot to bomb.
  • Posts: 1,631
    Well, whatever they decide to do the next time around, I just hope that there's a plan in place beforehand.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Tuulia wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Meh, I quite enjoy the fact that I don't have to conform to some ridiculous arbitrary standard of what a "man" is. And I think M's dressing down of Bond is one of the best scenes of the Brosnan era, an excellent way to address Bond's character in the modern world. But different strokes I guess.

    Masculinity and femininity are anything BUT arbitrary. The coercive neutered "masculinity" of our age is a deranged aberration.

    I'm generally of the school of thought that people be should be able to be or do whatever they want with their life, regardless of your archaic perception of what men and women should be. I've always found masculinity to be quite a poisonous concept, but I fear that we're drifting off topic here.

    Contradictions, contradictions everywhere.

    Masculinity as a concept enforces an oppressive stereotype upon the entire population and dictates what is and isn't acceptable for either gender. I'd say that's pretty oppressive. If you want to eat steak and drink bear and get into fights, that's fine (I enjoy 2/3 of those things) just don't force it on anyone else.

    Anyway if we could get back to Bond.

    What planet are you from? That's the stereotype of masculinity. You say people should be what they want to be but masculinity is too much? What a hypocrite. If people want to be strong and muscular then they can. Masculinity doesn't enforce those "oppressive stereotypes" as you say. That's the common BS talk of an SJW keyboard warrior. You seem to be trying to force things on others that disagree with you. That's oppressive wouldn't you say?

    Men can be masculine if they want, but others shouldn't be bullied if they don't want to conform to it's trappings. The expectations of masculine culture can really screw people up, there's a reason male suicide rates are so high. Likewise, women should be able to be as successful and feminine as they want without others demeaning them for it. It's the attitude that mean should be masculine and women should be feminine that is poisonous, I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear about that. This forum is hardly the most masculine bunch, we're all sat on our arses talking about silly films all day. I doubt Arnie would be very proud.

    I find it laughable that the term "social justice warrior" is somehow an insult. Surely providing social justice and greater opportunities is an admirable aim?

    Yep. Reading your junk makes me want to jump off the Tallahatchee Bridge. But more seriously, if male suicide rates are high, I suspect it is because people like you bash men constantly, ridicule masculinity, and confuse them with your "gender" fluidity nonsense. Men are genetically men and women are genetically women. To the extent one attempts to deviate from the norms, they harm themselves.

    Well said. Everyone should be allowed to be who they are, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum of masculinity or femininity. That's fine. But there is a agreeable definition of what is masculine is or what it is not. I don't understand why so many leftist extremists feel this is dangerous. There's this tendency to say everyone is the same but this is nonsense. People are different due to a variety of factors. That is reality.

    Do you not think that when you assert that there is an ideal of what a "masculine" man should be like, then you place pressure on men, and particularly young males, to conform to that standard. Surely that's a suppression of individuality, I'm talking about embracing the fact that people are different and doing away with the idea that they should be limited to some archaic standard of what is "normal". I'd argue that placing these labels and expectations on people during their formative years is damaging and prevents them from developing in a way that makes them happy. Every person is an eclectic combination of likes, dislikes, tastes, hobbies, sexuality, etc etc, and I don't think we should be judging and defining people based on these.

    Asserting that there is an agreeable standard around masculinity obviously overlooks the tremendous cultural divisions around perceptions of gender, and the evolving way that we have perceived masculinity and male ideals over time. A "manly" man was a very different thing in 1926 compared with 2016.

    A man can chose to identify as "masculine" if he wishes, but that shouldn't be enforced as some sort of optimum condition for the human male. There's a tendency for people to be pass judgement and ridicule things that are different, that needs to stop. I've seen kids being bullied viscously because they happen to be perceived as feminine by other boys, and that is reality.

    Anyway, that's not much to do with Bond, but I guess there isn't much else to talk about in this information vacuum.

    Very well put.

    Was it?

    Sounds like he's advocating Larry Grayson for Bond next (well next but one obviously. As we all know already Idris has to be next).

    I know you're being facetious, but I'd like to make clear that I'm firmly a Fassbender man, as unlikely as that may be considering the direction of his career.

    At least you can recognise when someone is ripping the piss old man unlike quite a few on here.

    Fassbender I could certainly live with but as you say would he consider it a good move for his current career trajectory and more crucially would EON want to pay his rate?

    I can't see it happening, and it's why I think Turner is looking like a fairly likely prospect. He's got time on his side and he'd probably do it for a fiver and a pack of quavers.

    Hey, that works for me. After all, the only reason they got Connery in his first place was because many name actors turned them down. Connery was a cheaper alternative and look how that turned out.
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