No Time To Die: Production Diary

1152115221524152615272507

Comments

  • Posts: 4,619
    Whether you like Skyfall or FRWL more, that's subjective, wether Skyfall is a great film, is not subjective. Skyfall is objectively an excellent movie and one of the best Bond films ever made.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 17,753
    Whether you like Skyfall or FRWL more, that's subjective, wether Skyfall is a great film, is not subjective. Skyfall is objectively an excellent movie and one of the best Bond films ever made.

    For me, SF is a lower table Bond film, but there you go. Different opinions, and all. Cinematography great, the rest - a bit "meh".
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I have always maintained that the ghost of SF will be an albatross around EON's neck for as long as Daniel Craig remains James Bond, for better or worse. Even our discussion here over the past few pages is framed in terms of that film. Given most people would like to ignore SP (I realize the film has its fans, although even then most of them acknowledge its faults so the passion doesn't exist for it), SF remains the last film most associate with this tenure. It is this era's Thriller, and as I mentioned some time back, Michael Jackson was never able to escape that album's shadow. The expectations, unfortunately, will remain stratospheric - particularly after this delay.
  • Posts: 832
    Whether you like Skyfall or FRWL more, that's subjective, wether Skyfall is a great film, is not subjective. Skyfall is objectively an excellent movie and one of the best Bond films ever made.
    Don’t think frwl was the best film to use for this point.
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Sorry, this one was nine months ago:

    http://www.007.com/daniel-craig-return-james-bond/

    Wow. That’s just ridiculous.

  • Posts: 2,115
    DonnyDB5 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Sorry, this one was nine months ago:

    http://www.007.com/daniel-craig-return-james-bond/

    Wow. That’s just ridiculous.

    And the most recent communication, other than a press release, was Barbara Broccoli's mid-December interview on the podcast from The Hollywood Reporter.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Whether you like Skyfall or FRWL more, that's subjective, wether Skyfall is a great film, is not subjective. Skyfall is objectively an excellent movie and one of the best Bond films ever made.

    As much as I dog on skyfall, I think they are good things in the film. The cinematography and the villain are good. However I don’t think you can say it’s an excellent film because it has so many problems. The CGI sucks, the story makes no sense, It tries to cover all these elaborate themes but really never hits any of them all that well. I guess the dialogue is pretty good but this film suffers for me especially when watched directly after QOS because CR/ QOS are serious films that take bond to its roots and tell a spy story while skyfall just feels like an aimless exploration of nothing.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    I don't hate either SF or even SP, BUT... Mendes was a mistake. I don't care how much money SF made. It was a mistake after rebooting Bond to project him into the future just to make an auteur statement. Same with making Bond a whiny little emo bitch which is a fundamental misunderstanding (or not caring) of the character. And clearly his attempts to return classic elements back into the series with SP proved both hamfisted and retarded. He should have never been let near the series. That's EON's fault.

    Watch your director's previous work. Watch it, understand it, realize their perspective and abilities. I've argued before anyone who doesn't understand 'show, don't tell,' shouldn't be a filmmaker. He's terrible at action as well as suspense. He added the ensemble mentality, though EON deserves partial blame for consistently over using M in the Dench years. Then add his snail pacing. Factor in Bond's inability to talk to women in anything but whispered tones... on and on.

    If EON was in real control, he wouldn't have made it to a pitch meeting, but if he had, here's how it should have gone...

    Mendes: I want to make Bond older and lost a step.
    EON: We just rebooted the character that's dumb.
    Mendes: It will add drama.
    EON: But skipping an athlete's prime is unsatisfying to the audience.
    Mendes: I want to make a statement about middle age.
    EON: Uh-huh. Well thank you very much for coming down... can we validate your parking?

    Again, I like SF well enough for what it is, but I do empathize with those who hate Mendes, not only for getting two, but his "era" has spanned just way too long...
  • Posts: 12,837
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    They have to make something better than SP. it needs to be on par with skyfall
    Oh no?
    My sentiment exactly.

    Oh no?

    Better have a film that is universally liked, a critical and BO success then having - what?

    A film liked by a minority? There is no other option.
    What about a film that balances both? Surely that's the way to go.
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    They have to make something better than SP. it needs to be on par with skyfall
    Oh no?
    My sentiment exactly.

    Oh no?

    Better have a film that is universally liked, a critical and BO success then having - what?

    A film liked by a minority? There is no other option.

    How about I don’t care for critics and I like a good bond film so no I don’t want another skyfall

    Skyfall was very popular with fans on here though as well as being a massive hit, so I think it had that balance. Obviously some people didn't like it but there will always be a minority who doesn't like something. You're never going to please everyone but I think in the internet age of rewatching and analysing, Skyfall was about as close as you can get.

    I don't want another one because they've done that now, but something that gets the same sort of reaction should be what they strive for because that's about as good a reaction you can get imo. Obviously the ideal would be a massive hit and everyone is happy but that's impossible.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    If I watch SF as a follow-up to CR and QOS, then it's a disappointment. If watched as a standalone, the way it should be, then I love it.
  • Posts: 6,601
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    They have to make something better than SP. it needs to be on par with skyfall
    Oh no?
    My sentiment exactly.

    Oh no?

    Better have a film that is universally liked, a critical and BO success then having - what?

    A film liked by a minority? There is no other option.
    What about a film that balances both? Surely that's the way to go.
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    They have to make something better than SP. it needs to be on par with skyfall
    Oh no?
    My sentiment exactly.

    Oh no?

    Better have a film that is universally liked, a critical and BO success then having - what?

    A film liked by a minority? There is no other option.

    How about I don’t care for critics and I like a good bond film so no I don’t want another skyfall

    Skyfall was very popular with fans on here though as well as being a massive hit, so I think it had that balance. Obviously some people didn't like it but there will always be a minority who doesn't like something. You're never going to please everyone but I think in the internet age of rewatching and analysing, Skyfall was about as close as you can get.

    I don't want another one because they've done that now, but something that gets the same sort of reaction should be what they strive for because that's about as good a reaction you can get imo. Obviously the ideal would be a massive hit and everyone is happy but that's impossible.

    This.

    @ Remington - I agree. SF is better as a standalone film then as a follow up to QOS.
  • Posts: 12,466
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    They have to make something better than SP. it needs to be on par with skyfall
    Oh no?
    My sentiment exactly.

    Oh no?

    Better have a film that is universally liked, a critical and BO success then having - what?

    A film liked by a minority? There is no other option.
    What about a film that balances both? Surely that's the way to go.
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    They have to make something better than SP. it needs to be on par with skyfall
    Oh no?
    My sentiment exactly.

    Oh no?

    Better have a film that is universally liked, a critical and BO success then having - what?

    A film liked by a minority? There is no other option.

    How about I don’t care for critics and I like a good bond film so no I don’t want another skyfall

    Skyfall was very popular with fans on here though as well as being a massive hit, so I think it had that balance. Obviously some people didn't like it but there will always be a minority who doesn't like something. You're never going to please everyone but I think in the internet age of rewatching and analysing, Skyfall was about as close as you can get.

    I don't want another one because they've done that now, but something that gets the same sort of reaction should be what they strive for because that's about as good a reaction you can get imo. Obviously the ideal would be a massive hit and everyone is happy but that's impossible.

    This.

    @ Remington - I agree. SF is better as a standalone film then as a follow up to QOS.

    No question for me. SF is the best standalone Craig experience. CR is right there too though - but it also works great with QOS right after.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 3,333
    There's no doubt that SF was massively successful and a financial hit. The financial side of the business is the only thing that matters at the end of the day in Hollywood. Whether everybody that went to see it came out entirely satisfied is open to debate and cannot be proven, even by the massaged figures on Imdb as not everybody that saw the movie participates in such pointless folly. Awards are all well and good but who truly cares or remembers whether a movie won a batch of awards or not? Does anybody still say that Kramer vs. Kramer is a better movie than Star Trek, Rocky II, or Alien because it was the biggest domestic moneymaker of 1979? Or that Kramer vs. Kramer is a movie that deserved to beat the likes of Apocalypse Now in every Oscar category worth winning that year? Just because Kramer vs. Kramer was the critics preferred choice over the others that I mentioned, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be seen that way in 39 years by the general public. But money is king in Hollywood and Kramer vs. Kramer made the most money and received the best reviews and awards, so to some that's all that counts.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2018 Posts: 23,883
    The concern I have with this discussion about SF is that it sets expectations for B25. Not only among the general audience (which included a lot of fairweather fans who only enjoy SF as opposed to Bond in general), but also for the hardcore and for EON themselves. After all, can we all even agree on what we like about that film (at least for those who like it)? I've seen some wax lyrical about the hidden (and not so hidden) themes, others about the cinematography and even others about Bond's arc.

    Does EON know what made it so successful? Did they draw the right lessons? One could argue that they didn't. Mother was a hit, so why not go for brother next time. Cinematography was highly rated and Roger wants no part of the next one, so let's get Hoyte. What, no digital cameras to illuminate the frame you say? No problem, we'll compensate with a filter. Plot not coherent? No worries, it didn't matter last time after all. Let's focus on the themes. Hopefully you catch my drift.

    Ultimately I think they have to either

    1. go in a very different direction with the next one. Try something new. Be daring. It will either succeed or it won't, but at least it won't be considered boring, which was the charge leveled at the last one. I had hoped that they would go all the way, but can live with a baby step in Hodge/Boyle.

    or:

    2. go for what has worked time and time again for Bond, and that is the formulaic template. It's the most successful repetitive formula in history, allowing for variations in budget, caper, locations and actor. The most memorable and successful films in the series have executed on the formula very well over the decades, and that is why they remain iconic.
    ----

    SF was an anomaly. An exception. I've always felt that it is a bit like FRWL in this respect. Before I get chewed out by purists as a blasphemer, let me clarify! I mean that it's sufficiently different from the rest of the films in the canon while still retaining Bond DNA.

    The issue, I feel, is that one can only do an SF type film so often. Every now and then, one should go back to the well and what made Bond the most consistently successful franchise, and that is the formula, executed to perfection in all its requisite elements. At least in my humble view, that wasn't SP.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    bondjames wrote: »
    The concern I have with this discussion about SF is that it sets expectations for B25. Not only among the general audience (which included a lot of fairweather fans who only enjoy SF as opposed to Bond in general), but also for the hardcore and for EON themselves. After all, can we all even agree on what we like about that film (at least for those who like it)? I've seen some wax lyrical about the hidden (and not so hidden) themes, others about the cinematography and even others about Bond's arc.

    Does EON know what made it so successful? Did they draw the right lessons? One could argue that they didn't. Mother was a hit, so why not go for brother next time. Cinematography was highly rated and Roger wants no part of the next one, so let's get Hoyte. What, no digital cameras to illuminate the frame you say? No problem, we'll compensate with a filter. Plot not coherent? No worries, it didn't matter last time after all. Let's focus on the themes. Hopefully you catch my drift.

    Ultimately I think they have to either

    1. go in a very different direction with the next one. Try something new. Be daring. It will either succeed or it won't, but at least it won't be considered boring, which was the charge leveled at the last one. I had hoped that they would go all the way, but can live with a baby step in Hodge/Boyle.

    or:

    2. go for what has worked time and time again for Bond, and that is the formulaic template. It's the most successful repetitive formula in history, allowing for variations in budget, caper, locations and actor. The most memorable and successful films in the series have executed on the formula very well over the decades, and that is why they remain iconic.
    ----

    SF was an anomaly. An exception. I've always felt that it is a bit like FRWL in this respect. Before I get chewed out by purists as a blasphemer, let me clarify! I mean that it's sufficiently different from the rest of the films in the canon while still retaining Bond DNA.

    The issue, I feel, is that one can only do an SF type film so often. Every now and then, one should go back to the well and what made Bond the most consistently successful franchise, and that is the formula, executed to perfection in all its requisite elements. At least in my humble view, that wasn't SP.

    Well said.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited May 2018 Posts: 1,756
    I'm impartial to both sides but let me play Devil's Adv. Just because formula worked in the past, doesn't mean it would work in the present. Formula worked in the past because films came out very often, and people liked formula because they knew every 2 years EON could deliver what they loved, much like anything familiar. In an every changing world you could always count on Bond being back; the gun barrel at the beginning; the PTS; etc.

    Does formula work with twice the gap? Maybe with that extended time, maybe people want something more original. Who knows. It's hard to say.

    Honestly, might as well just go nuts at this point. If they want to do formula again they should do it when Craig's done. Get a young actor, churn those bad boys out like Marvel movies, and you got another golden age of Bond again.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I'm impartial to both sides but let me play Devil's Adv. Just because formula worked in the past, doesn't mean it would work in the present. Formula worked in the past because films came out very often, and people liked formula because they knew every 2 years EON could deliver what they loved, much like anything familiar. In an every changing world you could always count on Bond being back; the gun barrel at the beginning; the PTS; etc.

    Does formula work with twice the gap? Maybe with that extended time, maybe people want something more original. Who knows. It's hard to say.

    Honestly, might as well just go nuts at this point. If they want to do formula again they should do it when Craig's done. Get a young actor, churn those bad boys out like Marvel movies, and you got another golden age of Bond again.

    Personally I prefer the modern approach of taking more time, and actually saying something, rather than churning out the same thing with a new skin. Sf was very different, and that was what got people interested in Bond again, same with CR.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'm impartial to both sides but let me play Devil's Adv. Just because formula worked in the past, doesn't mean it would work in the present. Formula worked in the past because films came out very often, and people liked formula because they knew every 2 years EON could deliver what they loved, much like anything familiar. In an every changing world you could always count on Bond being back; the gun barrel at the beginning; the PTS; etc.

    Does formula work with twice the gap? Maybe with that extended time, maybe people want something more original. Who knows. It's hard to say.

    Honestly, might as well just go nuts at this point. If they want to do formula again they should do it when Craig's done. Get a young actor, churn those bad boys out like Marvel movies, and you got another golden age of Bond again.

    Personally I prefer the modern approach of taking more time, and actually saying something, rather than churning out the same thing with a new skin. Sf was very different, and that was what got people interested in Bond again, same with CR.
    Good points. Either is fine I suppose. It's just that one has to be prepared for more volatility (in fan opinion and in success) with the swing from the fences approach. One is just as likely to offend as to overjoy with such a technique. One also has to be prepared for longer waits between films. Finally, one's expectation of what a Bond film is will also have to become more malleable with time, as it perhaps has already. Hence the polarization of sorts on this site. It's an adjustment process.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited May 2018 Posts: 6,289
    I'm pretty sure that Cubby instilled in MGW and Babs the importance of getting an actor's second film out quickly...unfortunately, that doesn't always pan out, as TMWTGG and QoS show. It also makes me wonder why TND is so by-the-numbers, although perhaps they were still grappling with Cubby's death.
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    I’m currently on vacation in Florida. I’m hoping by the time I get home there will be some kind of news I can read about. Not holding my breath, though.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I expect Bond 25 to surpass Skyfall. Perhaps not critically or commercially, but personally for me. It might become my favourite of the Craig films, seen as I am cooler on CR than most.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Of the Craig films, CR is the one with highest quality in everything for me while QoS is the most watchable. SP comes the third in ranks.

    Come to think of it, back when it came out, I was a die hard fan of SP.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    edited May 2018 Posts: 4,583
    DonnyDB5 wrote: »
    I’m currently on vacation in Florida. I’m hoping by the time I get home there will be some kind of news I can read about. Not holding my breath, though.

    @DonnyDB5 I hope you're enjoying our wonderful weather.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Honestly, might as well just go nuts at this point.
    You mean they didn’t already?

    Jesus, if brothergate doesn’t get you a straight jacket and padded cell what will?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Honestly, might as well just go nuts at this point.
    Jesus, if brothergate doesn’t get you a straight jacket and padded cell what will?
    A #MeToo film where Bond is a complete celibate. Haha!
  • Posts: 787
    Honestly, might as well just go nuts at this point.
    You mean they didn’t already?

    Jesus, if brothergate doesn’t get you a straight jacket and padded cell what will?

    For Christ's sake you two, be careful. EON are listening, and they've already:

    -sent Bond to space
    -had him fight a dwarf
    -had JP Pepper in, twice
    -showed us Joe Don Baker's ass
    -and etc etc

    Please, please don't give them any ideas.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 2,917
    octofinger wrote: »
    For Christ's sake you two, be careful. EON are listening, and they've already:

    -sent Bond to space
    -had him fight a dwarf
    -had JP Pepper in, twice
    -showed us Joe Don Baker's ass
    -and etc etc

    Please, please don't give them any ideas.

    Up next in Bond 25: OO7 fights a dwarf in space after hijacking a spaceship with a CGI J.W. Pepper onboard, Joe Don Baker shows up to reveal his new tattoo, and Christoph Waltz returns as Blofeld with the news that he is the cousin of the nephew of the accountant of Bond's second great aunt Mathilda's husband Rupert.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I think 2013 - 2018 was a bit of a wayward period in the history of Bond, but things are looking up. A new Boyle Bond next year and then hopefully a reimagining by 2022.
  • Posts: 787
    Birdleson wrote: »
    octofinger wrote: »
    Honestly, might as well just go nuts at this point.
    You mean they didn’t already?

    Jesus, if brothergate doesn’t get you a straight jacket and padded cell what will?

    For Christ's sake you two, be careful. EON are listening, and they've already:

    -sent Bond to space
    -had him fight a dwarf
    -had JP Pepper in, twice
    -showed us Joe Don Baker's ass
    -and etc etc

    Please, please don't give them any ideas.

    I actually liked all of those bits.

    So say all of us, friend, but it's still wise to be careful what you wish for . . .
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    I think 2013 - 2018 was a bit of a wayward period in the history of Bond, but things are looking up. A new Boyle Bond next year and then hopefully a reimagining by 2022.

    Let's hope so.
Sign In or Register to comment.