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No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    James Bond
    Z7HeRxU.png
  • AlexanderWaverlyAlexanderWaverly
    Posts: 2,115
    // I begin to take issue when it appears that Blofeld purposefully acted on things with Bond often in mind, as part of a long-running and crazy over-the-top revenge scheme.//

    And, again going back to the Dec. 1, 2014 draft (filed just one week before filming was to start), this was explicitly stated when Blofeld swore revenge for ***losing a poker game*** when he and Bond were kids. He says he began a lifelong drive to be a supervillain because of this. Thankfully, this got dropped. But it shows you were the creative crew's heads were at.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Shardlake wrote: »
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I think you'll find before this film I have been one of the most vocal of how I've enjoyed this era. I had to put up with the constant bitching about Skyfall for the last 3 years prior to SPECTRE.

    I'll acknowledge the plot holes and that personal Bond was taken to it's limit but it had a compelling feel to it and I thought Bardem's camp Silva was a nice change from the more real and subdued Le Chiffre & Greene. Mads villain is still my favourite of DC's time.

    There was the nostalgia element, bringing Q & MP back and also the DB5 but I left the cinema exhilerated.

    I think someone said it here or maybe on another forum and this sentence for me perfectly sums up SPECTRE. They replaced storytelling with nostalgia.

    Whereas the DC era hadn't gone big on CGI maybe bits and pieces but the exlplosion and the demolishing of that building in the PTS was unescessary and the last said about that explosion near the end that cost millions the better, so with out going into the ESB debacle we've got problems.

    Also probably the most uncharacteristic moment of Craig's time "OOh Mr White". I almost cringed when I heard that in the cinema.

    Also we cast the double oscar winning Christoph Waltz in a role it's assumed he'll ace and despite his back story give us one of the most memorable villains of the series, at last a chance to do ESB justice at least compete with Telly's version in OHMSS.

    Instead we get a vanilla villain, Dominic Greene was more threatening than ESB, that line to Mendrano after he's signed his contract regarding his balls has more menace than all of Waltz's telephoned almost catatonic Franz Oberhauser.

    Also DC's Bond had his moments but it was like a completely different interpretation at the times, it's like we had to rush into fully fledged Bond complete with corny lines and almost not feeling threatened by anything. I didn't even feel Craig was that bothered when he was about to have his head drilled.

    Compare this with the ball bashing CR moment and there is no comparrison, Craig and Mads are utterly electric here and both of them bring their A game, Bond about to be drilled by Waltz neither sound like they are bothered at all and that "doesn't time fly" line is like something out of the Brosnan era.

    One element that cause most derision for the films detractors was the retconning to make it so ESB was behind everything from CR onwards. Now in the hands of the capable writers this could have worked, they could have bought White into it more. Not increased his appearances, maybe extended his moment with Bond but had his shadow linger over things more.

    I'll show you soon how White could have been a factor as early as the PTS but it wouldn't be made clear till his meeting with Bond. This also brings me to that scanning a ring nonsense and Q's lap top having the software to create some natty SPECTRE family tree.
    To think the fuss that was made over Silva's scheme, yes a stretch and Q saying he was planning this for years doesn't help but linking everything together in that scene was plain awful.

    Bond should have been a detective and worked out the link for himself, there was also a opportuntity to use Belluci's character more to drive the plot along.

    Look I'm no screen writer but it makes me mad that I could have fixed this like so many of us here have offered possibilities how this could have been so much better.

    To think P&W got paid to so call rescue this, instead of throw the script a life line they dropped a brick on it, BB & MGW have to held accountable for signing off on the tenuously linked nonsense that appeared in this film.

    Great post.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited August 2016 Posts: 8,216
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    @Birdleson, that's my biggest issue with SP if I had to name one, that goes beyond the stepbrother stuff for me, which seems small apples in comparison.

    The issue is we really don't get a clear picture of Blofeld's hand in some of the earlier schemes in SP, and when we do the script is lax on information and almost expects us just to fill it all in, which is lazy and only leads us to quite correctly poke holes in parts of the past story as we know it now that such a massive retcon has occurred.

    On one hand, it's easy to believe that Quantum was acting as a tentacle of SPECTRE under Blofeld's orders. That's all fine and dandy, no issues from me. But then in the scene inside Blofeld's compound, Ernst makes it seem like he purposely sought out operations just to get at Bond, naming Vesper and M for example, and that really pisses me off. I don't know if his "author of all your pain" comment was intended to be hyperbolic or a factual actuality, and that bugs me. I like the idea of Blofeld and Bond unknowingly crossing paths over a set of years, but only if the former was simply engaging in operations that the latter just so happened to be assigned on to. I begin to take issue when it appears that Blofeld purposefully acted on things with Bond often in mind, as part of a long-running and crazy over-the-top revenge scheme.

    I actually like tying in all of Craig's films but not the way it was done.

    would have preferred had there been no connection between Bond And Blofeld other than one that evolved starting with the events of Casino Royale; Then, at some point in SPECTRE Blofeld would have said something to the effect:

    'At first you were nothing to me; quite by accident you kept getting in my way; at first you were a distraction, then an annoyance; but now Mr. Bond I'm afraid you've become a threat. What has been amusing is that over these years, without even trying, I became the author of all your pain and now, I shall put you out of my misery.'

    Or something like that


  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    AlexanderWaverly wrote: »
    //To think P&W got paid to so call rescue this, instead of throw the script a life line they dropped a brick on it, BB & MGW have to held accountable for signing off on the tenuously linked nonsense that appeared in this film.//

    Let's roll this a step or two back. Where were BB and MGW while Logan (supposedly consulting closely with Mendes) was working his magic? Were they in communication at all? Or where they so busy with their non-Bond endeavors they weren't tracking things?

    I'm not talking about looking over Logan's shoulders as he wrote. But an occasional phone call ("Hi John, how's the script going?") would seem to be called for. Yet, according to the Sony hack material, BB was shocked when Logan turned in the first draft. It seems as if it shouldn't have been *that* much of a surprise.

    It could be that BB and MGW have to be accountable for more than just signing off on the final script. They're ultimately responsible for the entire pre-production process.

    This.

    We can blame the writers for turning in shit all we want but who is monitoring them?
    Murdock wrote: »
    James Bond
    Z7HeRxU.png

    Why are fun and good writing mutually exclusive? And I've seen 'fun' used a lot recently as if that is the be all and end all of making a good film.

    'I saw that Schindler's List the other day. Can't see how it won so many Oscars as its not much fun. Why didn't Spielberg throw a few more double taking pigeons in?'
    AlexanderWaverly wrote: »
    And, again going back to the Dec. 1, 2014 draft (filed just one week before filming was to start), this was explicitly stated when Blofeld swore revenge for ***losing a poker game*** when he and Bond were kids. He says he began a lifelong drive to be a supervillain because of this. Thankfully, this got dropped. But it shows you were the creative crew's heads were at.

    A week before filming started???? What were Babs and Mike doing (and as someone else mentioned MGW was ill so the blame largely ends up at Babs' door)?
    talos7 wrote: »
    would have preferred had there been no connection between Bond And Blofeld other than one that evolved starting with the events of Casino Royale; Then, at some point in SPECTRE Blofeld would have said something to the effect:

    'At first you were nothing to me; quite by accident you kept getting in my way; at first you were a distraction, then an annoyance; but now Mr. Bond I'm afraid you've become a threat. What has been amusing is that over these years, without even trying, I became the author of all your pain and now, I shall put you out of my misery.'

    Or something like that


    Already better. And you probably typed that in two minutes whilst sat on the bog.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    Why are fun and good writing mutually exclusive? And I've seen 'fun' used a lot recently as if that is the be all and end all of making a good film.

    'I saw that Schindler's List the other day. Can't see how it won so many Oscars as its not much fun. Why didn't Spielberg throw a few more double taking pigeons in?'
    My comment had nothing to do with the quality of Spectre's writing.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,539
    Someone's still clinging on.

    express.co.uk/comment/columnists/adam-helliker/702337/Adam-Helliker-Tom-still-in-picture-as-Bond
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    Posts: 4,619
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    Someone's still clinging on.

    express.co.uk/comment/columnists/adam-helliker/702337/Adam-Helliker-Tom-still-in-picture-as-Bond

    Hiddleston would be a far more exciting choice than Fassbender.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited August 2016 Posts: 9,117
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    Someone's still clinging on.

    express.co.uk/comment/columnists/adam-helliker/702337/Adam-Helliker-Tom-still-in-picture-as-Bond

    Another fine piece of journalism which considers Jason Statham to be in the running!?!!?!

    I wish in my job I could just call the boss and say 'You know what I really can't be arsed today'.

    Don't these people have editors who ask what this rubbish they are passing off as a story is? Or does not one give the slightest shit about anything any more? This is just the world we're living in I suppose.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    yes and it perpetuates the urban legend that Elba was, or is actually, being considered.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited August 2016 Posts: 4,043
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    Someone's still clinging on.

    express.co.uk/comment/columnists/adam-helliker/702337/Adam-Helliker-Tom-still-in-picture-as-Bond

    Hiddleston would be a far more exciting choice than Fassbender.

    Hiddleston isn't half the actor Fassbender is, you really have a problem with Fassy don't you?

    Fassbender isn't whoring himself with a pop star, hopefully his behaviour ruled him out long ago. I liked the idea after the Night Manager but it's old hat now and hopefully BB has moved on.

    James Norton or Tom Hughes would be much better anyway.
  • GeneralGogolGeneralGogol
    Posts: 928
    talos7 wrote: »
    would have preferred had there been no connection between Bond And Blofeld other than one that evolved starting with the events of Casino Royale; Then, at some point in SPECTRE Blofeld would have said something to the effect:

    'At first you were nothing to me; quite by accident you kept getting in my way; at first you were a distraction, then an annoyance; but now Mr. Bond I'm afraid you've become a threat. What has been amusing is that over these years, without even trying, I became the author of all your pain and now, I shall put you out of my misery.'

    Or something like that


    Sounds like something a classic villain like Goldfinger or Drax would say (either literary or cinematic).

    I wish that Skyfall-Spectre-Bond 25 would've been planned from the very beginning by EON and Mendes as Craig's proper Blofeld trilogy. Instead of Silva being driven purely by a Freudian mommy complex, throw in a few hints as to his new employer. In Spectre, completely throw out the foster brother revenge angle and retcon just to the extent talos7 mentions. Try again in 50 years, EON?
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited August 2016 Posts: 8,216
    Yes! I would have liked to have seen a bit more forethought and patience in the reveal of both SPECTRE and Blofeld. One thing you have to give MARVEL is that they have a plan. on the surface EON seems aimless
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited August 2016 Posts: 8,216
    Knowing where you are and where you want to go and how to get there is not using " superhero movies and their franchises as a template for Fleming's work" Starting with Quantum and painfully obvious with SPECTRE. Someone with a stronger vision is needed, even if the intent is to do standalone adventures. Outside of Casino Royale that does not seem to be present.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    As I said, "Someone with a stronger vision is needed, even if the intent is to do standalone adventures. Outside of Casino Royale that does not seem to be present."
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Yep ;)
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    CR was an epiphany for EON ...unfortunately they didn't seem to have any clue how to handle the reboot after that. I liked SF but even that was like "ok ummm now what? ok soft kinda reboot of a reboot ...that should help us set up for a great follow up!~ TA DA presenting SPECTRE!!!..."
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    The more I read and think about Spectre, the more of a disaster it seems.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    The more I read and think about this thread, the more of a disaster it seems. ;)
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Murdock wrote: »
    The more I read and think about this thread, the more of a disaster it seems. ;)

    Can't argue with that. It's been a serious dry spell in terms of news lately, and the thread has inevitably turned into SPECTRE deconstruction mode.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    jake24 wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    The more I read and think about this thread, the more of a disaster it seems. ;)

    Can't argue with that. It's been a serious dry spell in terms of news lately, and the thread has inevitably turned into SPECTRE deconstruction mode.

    Some expect grand news so soon. I think a little patience is order. We didn't get a sliver of information on Spectre until late 2014. I don't expect to get any significant news within this year.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Until that moment comes, may the deconstruction of SP and the posting of rumors press on!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Until that moment comes, may the deconstruction of SP and the posting of rumors press on!
    Angels and ministers of grace defend us.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Until that moment comes, may the deconstruction of SP and the posting of rumors press on!
    This thread is going in circles. I don't want people to feel obligated to bump this thread for the sake of discussing points about the latest Bond flick that have been discussed to death.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Which is what makes me fall back on suggesting that we close this up until we get some true concrete information; alas, that conversation always goes the same way, so this thread will simply continue to be bumped.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Which is what makes me fall back on suggesting that we close this up until we get some true concrete information; alas, that conversation always goes the same way, so this thread will simply continue to be bumped.

    Agreed 100%
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited August 2016 Posts: 10,591
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Which is what makes me fall back on suggesting that we close this up until we get some true concrete information; alas, that conversation always goes the same way, so this thread will simply continue to be bumped.
    I see what you mean. I know this thread is disliked by many on here. Let's wait until there's more concrete news to discuss (it could be a while), and this place will return to the basis of which it was intended.
  • AlexanderWaverlyAlexanderWaverly
    Posts: 2,115
    Indirectly related to all this, but this is the 35th anniversary of MGM buying UA. Thus, after 35 years, the MGM-Eon dysfunction is still going strong despite various changes of ownership at MGM, a bankruptcy, etc.

    http://bit.ly/2bHYkaP
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Like the franchise, this thread is wandering with no direction... ;)
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    talos7 wrote: »
    Like the franchise, this thread is wandering with no direction... ;)
    I'd rather no direction than One Direction. ;)
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