No Time To Die: Production Diary

13423433453473482507

Comments

  • Posts: 11,425
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    SP is an unfinished, uneven, movie. I like a lot about it too. It's enjoyable if you're open, annoying mess if you're not. Like all Mendes work, it does lend itself to easily repeated viewings.

    EON should be making better movies. I like them, I wish them well, I hope they can do better, but they should be doing better.

    Daniel Craig is not overrated as an actor or as Bond. He's been undermined by writing, directing and producing (some of this blame he does share, most to EON).

    I agree that Craig has been let down by poor writing and direction. For me the approach Mendes took with SF was a massive disappointment. I think Craig is a very good actor but not a great actor, as some people clAim. Once he's finished with Bond I think his career will take a very different, low key trajectory - he has not had much success outside of Bond tbh.
  • Posts: 4,619
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    He's been undermined by writing, directing and producing (some of this blame he does share, most to EON).
    When it comes to QOS and SP, absolutely. CR and SF on the other hand both have great scripts and were exceptionally directed. (I believe the script of CR is easily one of the 3 greatest Bond screenplays of all time, and SF is easily one of the 3 most well directed Bond films ever.)
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    edited August 2016 Posts: 1,130
    At first you were nothing to me; quite by accident you kept getting in my way; at first you were a distraction, then an annoyance; but now Mr. Bond I'm afraid you've become a threat. What has been amusing is that over these years, without even trying, I became the author of all your pain and now, I shall put you out of my misery.

    Or something like that



    Something like what Dr No said to Bond about him, how Bond cost him time and Money and how he much bothered him to the point of giving him a place in Spectre but at the end he was justa stupi police man




  • edited August 2016 Posts: 11,119
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    Like all Mendes work, it does lend itself to easily repeated viewings.

    The only work of Mendes' that I've been able to rewatch with ease was 'American Beauty'; it's almost a chore to sit through SF and SP again.

    I agree @DoctorNo. People are really harsh on Mendes' two Bond films. I mean, putting these films in the Bottom 3 of a ranking, to me sounds like a prime example of a complete outlier in personal taste :-).

    By the way, I do think Daniel Craig could return for a 5th film:

    http://www.chattsportsnet.com/entertainment/movies/new-james-bond-movie-theo-james-franchise-not-giving-daniel-craig/7916/
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @Gustav_Graves, obviously it is, just like placing DAD in the #1 spot would be seen as an outlier. Different strokes for different folks.
  • Posts: 1,970
    Just giving my weekly reminder Craig will be back for Bond 25
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 1,092
    Yes, indeed. He will return!

    But I don't like that link above. He never announced his departure. That's untrue. And none of the actors listed as his "replacement" have ever been official.
  • SP would have fared better if it had come out after CR. Then the 'mysterious organisation' alluded to in CR is not Quantum.

    Is good old Kevin McClory to blame for all this as usual?
    Yes he is.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Brosnan matured nicely into the role in TND. TND was intended to be a straightforward Bond adventure to help cement the franchise's return. Brosnan's performance exhibited a great deal more confidence in TND than GE. Just compare the BJB lines in both.

    Brosnan is very fine, at his best in TND. I love his Bond in this, throughout the whole film.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Brosnan was a perfect Bond, I shall forever hold him in high regard.
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 11,119
    Brosnan was the perfect pastiche of what people expect from James Bond. His portrayal was a good concoction of traits from all his four predecessors. The physicality of Dalton, the directness of Connery, the humor and charm of Moore and some emotional traits of Lazenby. Yet, he wasn't a real 'new and unique' Bond to me. He was, again, the perfect formularic concoction of his precessors, which in the end felt a bit pastiche. Daniel Craig however......is the embodiment of something completely new and fresh. Yes, people also compare him with his predecessors, but Daniel Craig IMO is mostly compared with his own Bond portrayals, as opposed to Brosnan who reminds us more of past established Bond formula. So to me it's an easy choice: Craig wins easily from Brosnan.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I don't think Brosnan was a pastiche. Perhaps his movies were sans GoldenEye but Brosnan was his own Bond carrying the tradition of Bonds that came before him.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I ended up enjoying Brosnan's portrayal, but the reason I was against his getting the role from the start was fo the very reason stated above. He seemed to be an amalgam of what the general public thought James Bond should be. That irked me: that who guy who's claim to fame wash is portrayal of a Bond knock-off should get to play the genuine article.

    His work in GE was a pleasant surprise, but I have to say that his take on the character, as well as the film itse, was almost the definition of pastiche.

    Thanks @Birdleson. I think we fully agree.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I ended up enjoying Brosnan's portrayal, but the reason I was against his getting the role from the start was fo the very reason stated above. He seemed to be an amalgam of what the general public thought James Bond should be. That irked me: that who guy who's claim to fame wash is portrayal of a Bond knock-off should get to play the genuine article.

    His work in GE was a pleasant surprise, but I have to say that his take on the character, as well as the film itse, was almost the definition of pastiche.

    Thanks @Birdleson. I think we fully agree.


    It's funny how can many see something as a weakness others see it as a strength and for me that amalgam of his predecessors turned him in the whole bond package.
    He was so great to me because he had everything James Bond needs plus id say his great looks got the woman who never cared for the franchise or the action genre into Bond at least for a while (1996-2002).

    I do firmly believe the franchise needs another Brosnan Looks and performance wise. bond needs the women audience: the girlfriends and wives of all the Bond fans hehe.


  • Posts: 11,119
    Szonana wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I ended up enjoying Brosnan's portrayal, but the reason I was against his getting the role from the start was fo the very reason stated above. He seemed to be an amalgam of what the general public thought James Bond should be. That irked me: that who guy who's claim to fame wash is portrayal of a Bond knock-off should get to play the genuine article.

    His work in GE was a pleasant surprise, but I have to say that his take on the character, as well as the film itse, was almost the definition of pastiche.

    Thanks @Birdleson. I think we fully agree.


    It's funny how can many see something as a weakness others see it as a strength and for me that amalgam of his predecessors turned him in the whole bond package.
    He was so great to me because he had everything James Bond needs plus id say his great looks got the woman who never cared for the franchise or the action genre into Bond at least for a while (1996-2002).

    I do firmly believe the franchise needs another Brosnan Looks and performance wise. bond needs the women audience: the girlfriends and wives of all the Bond fans hehe.


    I draggggg Daniel Craig by his blond hairs to the EON office in Piccadilly. Because I DEMAND him to return for a 5th time.
  • Posts: 4,617
    "I do firmly believe the franchise needs another Brosnan Looks and performance wise. bond needs the women audience: the girlfriends and wives of all the Bond fans hehe"

    IMHO you get this via scripts that have great character and drama (which both genders appreciate). SF did this and it can be done again (with any actor) its so much more than getting "a looker" to play Bond.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Quality writing should be the starting point
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited August 2016 Posts: 4,116
    Moore's era probably still stands as the most consistent. They pretty much achieve what they wanted which was to entertain. Connery's era generally accepted as the golden age was incredible but as it hit it's pinnacle it began to falter. Dalton's barely got out of the starting gate and even then it had the wrong jockey with Glen. Brosnan's era saved and reintroduced Bond but critically never quite achieved what it could have. Craig's era was a total surprise but if Dalton's never got out of the gate then Craig's never knew which way to run. In my opinion the last three eras taken as a whole ended up being disappointments.
  • Posts: 4,619
    In my opinion the last three eras taken as a whole ended up being disappointments.
    Two out of the last four Bond movies are easily among the five greatest Bond movies of all time. I wouldn't call the Craig era as a whole disappointing at all.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Getafix wrote: »
    Quality writing should be the starting point

    Hence why the Bond character as played by Daniel Craig was way more complex, multilayered and emotionally realistic, as opposed to the people who wrote Brosnan's version of 007.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    True. But I think Craig is a better actor by far and thus suited the more complex take on the character.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Murdock wrote: »
    Brosnan was a perfect Bond,

    Very bold statement. Just start with 'painface' and work from there and this statement is quickly exposed as the fallacy it clearly is.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Quality writing should be the starting point

    Indeed.
    Hence why the Bond character as played by Daniel Craig was way more complex, multilayered and emotionally realistic, as opposed to the people who wrote Brosnan's version of 007.

    For two of Brosnan's films it was the same writers and at least half of Dan's tenure has been very badly written so its difficult to pinpoint exactly who is responsible for what and where.

    Is Brosnan to blame for his pastiche take on the character? Or is it the writers and directors? Campbell was the guy who introduced us to Brozza's greatest hits package take on Bond but also the guy who gave us the most Flemingesque Bond film since OHMSS.

    Was it EON saying to Broz 'After the dourness of Dalton we just want bums on seats so play it safe and go for a Sean/Rog composite'?

    Even if it's easy to criticise Brozza (the straightening the tie underwater was his idea and everyone loved it because it showed how much he 'got' the character) he was very badly served with scripts and directors. Its debatable if even Rog at his peak could have made DAD watchable.

    Craig has reaped the benefit of the mistakes of the Brozza era by being given more serious scripts and a definite uplift in talent behind the camera (writing aside).

    I've got a lot of time Broz because he was what the series needed at the time and he delivered. He often said he would have liked to have been given a crack at a proper serious Bond story with dramatic heft a la OHMSS/CR but like Craig it was EON that let him down with appalling script and director choices.

    He did his best and it gave it a good shot but his era still feels like pastiche and while this cant be levelled 100% at his door he does have to take his share of the blame.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Pastiche is a great explanation. Bang on.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Szonana wrote: »
    I do firmly believe the franchise needs another Brosnan Looks and performance wise. bond needs the women audience: the girlfriends and wives of all the Bond fans hehe.
    I certainly agree that Bond & EON should do their best to attract the female audience, however, I'm not so sure about another Brosnan necessarily. In fact, I'd strongly prefer that we not get another Brosnan.

    The franchise is doing quite well globally from a box office perspective, so I'm reasonably sure it's appealing to both sexes.

    Imho, the next actor must have a few qualities: He must be self assured. He must be masculine enough without necessarily being a beefcake or gym rat. He must imbue his Bond characterization with a natural confidence. He must have a strong voice with an appealing English accent. He must be a decent (but not necessarily a phenomenal) actor. He must be naturally convincing when seducing the ladies on film. Finally (my personal strong preference), he must be at least 6ft 1 or thereabouts.
  • Posts: 7,430
    The francjse needs another Brosnan??? Jesus wept!
  • Posts: 11,425
    Murdock wrote: »
    Brosnan was a perfect Bond,

    Very bold statement. Just start with 'painface' and work from there and this statement is quickly exposed as the fallacy it clearly is.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Quality writing should be the starting point

    Indeed.
    Hence why the Bond character as played by Daniel Craig was way more complex, multilayered and emotionally realistic, as opposed to the people who wrote Brosnan's version of 007.

    For two of Brosnan's films it was the same writers and at least half of Dan's tenure has been very badly written so its difficult to pinpoint exactly who is responsible for what and where.

    Is Brosnan to blame for his pastiche take on the character? Or is it the writers and directors? Campbell was the guy who introduced us to Brozza's greatest hits package take on Bond but also the guy who gave us the most Flemingesque Bond film since OHMSS.

    Was it EON saying to Broz 'After the dourness of Dalton we just want bums on seats so play it safe and go for a Sean/Rog composite'?

    Even if it's easy to criticise Brozza (the straightening the tie underwater was his idea and everyone loved it because it showed how much he 'got' the character) he was very badly served with scripts and directors. Its debatable if even Rog at his peak could have made DAD watchable.

    Craig has reaped the benefit of the mistakes of the Brozza era by being given more serious scripts and a definite uplift in talent behind the camera (writing aside).

    I've got a lot of time Broz because he was what the series needed at the time and he delivered. He often said he would have liked to have been given a crack at a proper serious Bond story with dramatic heft a la OHMSS/CR but like Craig it was EON that let him down with appalling script and director choices.

    He did his best and it gave it a good shot but his era still feels like pastiche and while this cant be levelled 100% at his door he does have to take his share of the blame.

    I can't stand any of the Brosnan films but have always maintained that he could have done a decent Bond film. I've enjoyed him in other roles, but rarely as Bond - with the exception perhaps of a few early scenes in TND.

    The problem IMO is that he never developed a take on the character that played to his strengths and his directors seem not to have much cared what he did. He has shown that when he has very good direction - Boorman, Polanski - that he can be a perfectly decent screen actor.

    Brosnan directed by Tarantino as Bond would have been interesting.

    Brosnan's Bond needed a darker, slightly twisted side. Brosnan is at his best playing people whose moral compass is not entirely set on the right course. His Bond should have been meaner, and less predictable. He played it too much like a bland action hero.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Brosnan was a perfect Bond,

    Very bold statement. Just start with 'painface' and work from there and this statement is quickly exposed as the fallacy it clearly is.
    Getafix wrote: »
    Quality writing should be the starting point

    Indeed.
    Hence why the Bond character as played by Daniel Craig was way more complex, multilayered and emotionally realistic, as opposed to the people who wrote Brosnan's version of 007.

    For two of Brosnan's films it was the same writers and at least half of Dan's tenure has been very badly written so its difficult to pinpoint exactly who is responsible for what and where.

    Is Brosnan to blame for his pastiche take on the character? Or is it the writers and directors? Campbell was the guy who introduced us to Brozza's greatest hits package take on Bond but also the guy who gave us the most Flemingesque Bond film since OHMSS.

    Was it EON saying to Broz 'After the dourness of Dalton we just want bums on seats so play it safe and go for a Sean/Rog composite'?

    Even if it's easy to criticise Brozza (the straightening the tie underwater was his idea and everyone loved it because it showed how much he 'got' the character) he was very badly served with scripts and directors. Its debatable if even Rog at his peak could have made DAD watchable.

    Craig has reaped the benefit of the mistakes of the Brozza era by being given more serious scripts and a definite uplift in talent behind the camera (writing aside).

    I've got a lot of time Broz because he was what the series needed at the time and he delivered. He often said he would have liked to have been given a crack at a proper serious Bond story with dramatic heft a la OHMSS/CR but like Craig it was EON that let him down with appalling script and director choices.

    He did his best and it gave it a good shot but his era still feels like pastiche and while this cant be levelled 100% at his door he does have to take his share of the blame.

    I can't stand any of the Brosnan films but have always maintained that he could have done a decent Bond film. I've enjoyed him in other roles, but rarely as Bond - with the exception perhaps of a few early scenes in TND.

    The problem IMO is that he never developed a take on the character that played to his strengths and his directors seem not to have much cared what he did. He has shown that when he has very good direction - Boorman, Polanski - that he can be a perfectly decent screen actor.

    Brosnan directed by Tarantino as Bond would have been interesting.

    Brosnan's Bond needed a darker, slightly twisted side. Brosnan is at his best playing people whose moral compass is not entirely set on the right course. His Bond should have been meaner, and less predictable. He played it too much like a bland action hero.
    I agree to an extent. I too believe he is best playing characters who are morally off kilter, like his TOP Andy Osnard. The problem (imho) is that kind of character works better in the books and is not so appealing to a broad audience on film.

    James Bond in the movies is a far more difficult character to play than people assume. The actor must embody the character. The acting must be subtle. In Brosnan's case, for him to really shine, the acting is more overt, as in the case of Osnard. Brosnan in a Tarantino exaggerated Bond universe could have worked very well for this very reason imho.

    He is also excellent playing the smooth operator, like in The Thomas Crown Affair, and I argue that it is this side of him which he channeled for his James Bond characterization. From my perspective however, this approach was a little too smarmy & corporate for Bond.

    That's why I still like GE best. It's because the supporting cast were solid enough, and the premise interesting enough, to allow Brosnan to coast through it as a 'template amalgam' Bond.

    Just my view of course. I know he has his fans.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    In some scenes he was crying out for a director to reign him in a little. In the TND Q scene Brosnan/Bond catches sight of Q's colourful overcoat, and Bond amusingly looks him up and down..3 TIMES. We got it the first time, so maybe the director should have told Brosnan to stop at one.

    In DAD when he and Berry spout the godawful dialogue on first meeting and they both adopt the exact same mannerism of pushing their tongue out slightly to emphasise certain words. Irritating. A good director would've sorted that out (Even Rosmaund Pike does it at one point).

    I don't mind his Bond at all, but he was having too much fun at times to concentrate on the character.
  • Posts: 4,325
    I find that in his non-Bond films he's either great or terrible

    Great - The Matador, The Fourth Protocol, The Tailor of Panama, The Ghost

    Terrible - early pre-Bond movies/TV Movies like Death Train, Nightwatch; The November Man
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited August 2016 Posts: 4,116
    In my opinion the last three eras taken as a whole ended up being disappointments.
    Two out of the last four Bond movies are easily among the five greatest Bond movies of all time. I wouldn't call the Craig era as a whole disappointing at all.

    Yes both CR and SF are in my top ten. SP definitely not. In fact SP is the only Craig film I didn't like. My point was the era to this point has not been what it could have been ..at least at this point.
Sign In or Register to comment.