No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Pemberton is a very talented composer, no doubt. I do have a criticism of him though. Despite the incredible melodies that he is capable of, I find that his music sometimes overpowers the scene in question, doesn't properly reflect the mood of what is transpiring on the screen and finally can be a little repetitive in instances. If he can temper this going forward, then I think he has great potential to be a very good composer for Bond. He is very skilled in his craft.

    I think clear melodies always 'overpower' a bit, as opposed to more 'sound' and emotional tracks without clear melodies. I do think this was the very essence that made John Barry so big.

    Still, indeed, Pemberton is a relatively new and young composer. Thus resulting in perhaps overpowering some scenes. Yet, in "Steve Jobs" I found him top-notch.

    Who would you prefer then @BondJames? Thomas Newman or Daniel Pemberton?
    The thing about Pemberton (at least with The Game and Man From Uncle, which are the two compositions of his that I am familiar with) is I didn't think that the music matched the scene all that well. I much prefer his work when listening to the soundtrack on its own, but not so much with the associated visuals. I sense a disconnect.

    This was Barry's genius in my view. His compositions always matched what was happening on screen to absolute perfection. To this day, when I listen to a Barry soundtrack, I am immediately reminded of the associated scene. They go hand in hand. Moreover, Barry also was so good with raising and lowering the tempo many times within the same track, and quickly. There is a constant modulation in his music. A sort of staccato effect. I love that, and think it suits the spy genre perfectly. I'm almost reminded of classical music. With Pemberton, it's more of a modulated tone. More gradual & also more repetitive.

    I think Newman's music, like Barry's, captures the scene very well and fits the film well too. It's just that his approach is far more subdued and low key, without the bombast of a Barry, Pemberton or even an Arnold. His style is completely the opposite.

    So it's difficult for me to choose between them because they are so different. One has much better melodies, and the other is much better with mood music (which lets the visuals do the talking).

    The score that matches Barry's genius most closely imho is Michael Giacchino's for The Incredibles.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited September 2016 Posts: 4,116
    I watched the Incredibles again with my kids last night and that score builds such great tension. Compliments what's on screen compared to competing with it.

    I remember I think Barry himself stated that what's on screen comes first and that the score should always compliment support the visuals. Not a quote obviously but I believe he said something to that effect.

  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    I'd pick anyone but Hans Zimmer to do the score. All of his work are painful to listen to, and the sounds are mediocre at best. I don't know why does he get praise, and over what he does it is beyond me, to be honest.

    Never listened to the interstellar soundtrack?
    Do I need to? His previous works are enough for me to submit judgment.

    Well then you're wrong. Listen to it, it's amazing.

  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    I loved his Interstellar work. But the majority of his recent stuff is generic.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Daniel Pemperton is on my short short list @Gustav_Graves
    You know how much I love the UNLCE soundtrack and especially his work for The Game.

    Still, my favourite remains Alexandre Desplat.

    It's almost as exciting to see who will do the next score as to who will play Bond.

    Desplat woud be definitely be another for consideration, see we can agree from time to time :)

    I'm most excited to see what he delivers for Rogue One, not going to be one where you can rest on your laurels but he's followed Williams before and done a fine job of it so the prospects are good.

    I can see what you are saying @bondjames about Desplat but he shows quite a bit of versatility, his The Grand Budapest Hotel score I think is exquisite.

    Newman's music with rare exception is utterly forgettable and doesn't really get the blood racing at all. Arnold was getting their with CR and particularly QOS, my favourite Bond score since TLD.

    Though giving someone new who isn't there just because him and the director are best buddies would definitely elicit more excitement especially if they've got a great sense of melody and are not afraid to crank up the JB theme when nescessary.
  • I'm a fan of Zimmer, both past and present. Interstellar is great. Man of Steel was a knockout score.

    Zimmer in M:I-2 mode could be good for James Bond, but I don't see the style he tends to write in today gelling well with the series.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,715
    Antonio Pinto, who did the soundtracks for the Ayrton Senna documentary and 'Lord of War' would be my #1 choice if Arnold doesn't return.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    One Zimmer score I didn t like was TDKR. Endless loud droning.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    jake24 wrote: »
    The main recurring theme in QoS is Shirley Bassey's "No Good About Goodbye", which Arnold co-wrote. Part of the melody from that song is featured in the track "The Bitch is Dead" from CR, before the song was even written.

    Which parts exactly? I've listened to that track thousands of times but I never noticed.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Walecs wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    The main recurring theme in QoS is Shirley Bassey's "No Good About Goodbye", which Arnold co-wrote. Part of the melody from that song is featured in the track "The Bitch is Dead" from CR, before the song was even written.

    Which parts exactly? I've listened to that track thousands of times but I never noticed.
    At 0.45:


  • edited September 2016 Posts: 157
    IGUANNA wrote: »
    Abel Korzeniowski please.

    I second that!



  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    I second Korzeniowski too. Penny Dreadful's score is gorgeous.

    @jake24 Thank you.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote: »
    Problem is Barry usually helped composed the theme song so had some ownership and control over it. We rarely see that now - Arnold achieved it once with CR and YKMN.

    Just to point out, Arnold also wrote The World Is Not Enough and incorporated that theme into the score. Similarly, Surrender was originally intended to be TND's title song and that theme appears throughout the score. I also read he had come up with a theme for DAD's song before being told Madonna was doing it independently, and as Arnold's post-QOS "No Good About Goodbye" with Bassey features a theme that was used heavily in the film, I'll bet that's what his title song would have sounded like had duties not gone to White and Keys.

    Good point. I think Surrender was a really good effort and always thought it should have been the title song.

    I always forget about TWiNE, probably becuase I can't stand the song or the movie. Saw it once at the cinema and that was enough. Appalling on every level.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I like Arnold and would pick him every time over that waste, Thomas Newman. However, if given the opportunity to get someone other than Newman, I wouldn't jump to Arnold as my first choice. There are many talented composers out there that can bring something exciting to these films and Ramin Djawadi, who I've mentioned a few times is a perfect candidate to bring a sense of epic gravitas these films require.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Well, @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, I rewatched Spectre just now and I'm afraid I don't share your enthusiasm for the film's sound design. If anything, I find Spectre to be over-scored with Newman's subdued writing. There are sections (inside White's place, for instance, or during the torture scene) where I thought perfect silence might have better suited the film than Newman's characteristic jangling suspense music or ambient pulsing.

    As for the way silence is used during the Spectre meeting scene, I can't say I'm the biggest fan of this particular scene, but really I think that's more a matter of how the scene was filmed to begin with. Compare the way the sound and editing work to build tension during the Spectre meeting scene in Thunderball to the way the sound and editing are used in the Spectre meeting scene in Spectre. There's just no comparing the two. This may just be me, or maybe it's due to the way the tropes have been overplayed in Austin Powers and everywhere else (there's even a Rosa Klebb/Frau Farbissina type in there), but I find Spectre's scene (Waltz's whisperings included) to have an almost comedic effect.

    As for the train fight, I agree silence was a good choice. The fight certainly follows in the footsteps of Bond vs. Grant, vs. Odd Job, vs. the Rock's grandfather, vs. Tee Hee, vs. Jaws on the train, vs. Xenia in the spa, vs. Trevelyn. They absolutely made the correct decision there, but it wasn't particularly groundbreaking. And actually, as I was paying close attention to the way sound is used, why does the danger music begin when they enter the last compartment of the train? Because the creative team wants to signal in advance that this is where we're supposed to scoot to the edge of our seats? (To quote Bond himself from later in the film, "This is where we're supposed to be impressed.") Wouldn't a better place to initiate the danger music be when Hinx slides open the outer door, actually introducing a new element of danger to the fight? I understand this is being pretty analytical of me, but then, I did approach this viewing with an analytical ear toward how sound is being used, and there appears to be no real creative or narrative logic as to why the music begins where it does.

    What did really stand out to me during this viewing is just how much music was lifted from Skyfall throughout the first half of the film in particular. Apart from “Los Muertos Vivos Estan” and “Donna Lucia” we don’t get any really original Spectre score until Madeleine shows up. (Incidentally, the 8-note theme Newman wrote for Madeleine, which shows up during the L’Americain scene and in a few other places, is the one part of the score that I really like.)

    Don't get me wrong here—apart from Newman's score being bland as bland can be—I'm on no crusade against the sound design of Spectre; I just find nothing exceptional about it. Particularly in comparison with how sound is used throughout the rest of the series. Still, I'd be interested in reading a detailed breakdown of sound design in Spectre from your point-of-view (or anyone else's) to see where others are coming from. We all view these films differently and form our own opinions.

    @Some_Kind_Of_Hero, that's perfectly fine.

    That's an interesting view on the Rome scene. I find it amusing myself, but for rather dark reasons. I love the fear of the SPECTRE members and how off they all look and feel when Blofeld finally enters. I also enjoy how Blofeld makes his drone like agents do everything from him that he could easily do himself in seconds, like fixing his chair, or pulling his microphone close. That kind of approach to filming a scene felt very true to the Craig era as a whole to me. I laugh at a lot of what I view to be physical comedy in these films, or in instances where an actor is simply reacting to something happening on screen. I think Blofeld's actions in that scene, being a king ordering around peasants is amusing, just as I thought it was amusing to see Bond crack a sly slime as Carlos implodes off screen in CR or how his expression morphs into that of disgust in SF when he sees the bulldog survived the MI6 blast. I know these moments don't do anything for some, but I'm always giddy watching the Craig films, largely due to so much of the dry humor and physical instances of comedy between the actors that can even be largely unintended to elicit that effect. That's just me, though. I have the same feeling while viewing the Connery films and Roger's too, because they were both so great at using their eyes, mannerisms and bodies to signal their entertaining reactions as Bond to what was happening on screen around them.

    As for the Hinx fight, I think the music finally enters at that point because that's the moment where Bond's endurance largely dies, and Hinx just begins beating him until he's near the door. The music placement there hasn't bothered me, but I see your perspective on it and it would be cool to see it kick in only once Hinx opens the carriage door to try and dispose of Bond. My view is just that the score kicks up to show a Bond out of it and nearly defeated, so beaten he's struggling to fight back through the fog of his exhaustion. I don't think it was needed, as we could see that through Dan's performance and how bad he was taking it all, but like I said, I've not got complaints. Love the scene like crazy.

    What did you make of the film's themes, @Some_Kind_Of_Hero, if any became apparent to you? I'd be interested to hear if you think the film is ever trying to make connections between its characters or signify things about them or their world through the use of symbology and metaphor. Also, how do you now view the film with another watch of it in? Has your view on where you'd rank it changed, and if Dan returns, what would you like to see addressed in Bond 25?

    To avoid off tracking this thread, we could discuss anything further in the SP Appreciation thread on the forum, where it would all be better suited:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/13846/spectre-appreciation-topic-and-why-you-think-the-24th-bond-film-was-the-best-spy-film-of-2015#latest
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 2,081
    @bondjames, okay then. It's often impossible to tell on the internet when people don't mean what they write if the text itself doesn't indicate it and they dislike emoticons as well.
    One Zimmer score I didn t like was TDKR. Endless loud droning.

    "Mind If I Cut In?" though. :x

    (I quite like most of the rest of it as well, actually, but I know what you mean...)

  • Posts: 11,425
    Gladiator is an awesome soundtrack with great, memorable themes
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Might I suggest Debbie Wiseman for an off the cuff choice. Her Arsene Lupin soundtrack is stellar and uses the cimbalon. It kicks in at about 1.00 below.

  • Posts: 1,680
    The Spectre meeting in Rome was probably the closest/darkest scene to CR in terms of suspense & mystery of the Quantum/Spectre organization. This was absent from QOS & SF.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I quite enjoy the contrast of how Bond acts in QoS and SP when coming upon these secret meetings of the organization.

    In QoS he's a smart arse and revels in blowing the lid off their party, while in SP he's very controlled and is focused on getting as much intelligence on what is going on there as he can. I think that says a lot about how far he's come as an agent as well.
  • I quite enjoy the contrast of how Bond acts in QoS and SP when coming upon these secret meetings of the organization.

    In QoS he's a smart arse and revels in blowing the lid off their party, while in SP he's very controlled and is focused on getting as much intelligence on what is going on there as he can. I think that says a lot about how far he's come as an agent as well.

    Good point.

  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited September 2016 Posts: 1,756
    bondjames wrote: »
    Might I suggest Debbie Wiseman for an off the cuff choice. Her Arsene Lupin soundtrack is stellar and uses the cimbalon. It kicks in at about 1.00 below.


    Very Bond-esque at 1 min. Very nice.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    I second that, very nice; imagine SPECTRE with this score.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Arsene Lupin itself is a great film!
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    I'm unfamiliar with, but won't be for long.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    It has our lovely Eva Green in it. :)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It has Brady's our lovely Eva Green in it. :)

    Fixed that for you, @ClarkDevlin. I'm a man of principles and don't mind sharing, but there comes a point when a man must take things for himself. This is one such instance.

    And what an instance it is... :>
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    The score is really excellent.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    It has Brady's our lovely Eva Green in it. :)

    Fixed that for you, @ClarkDevlin. I'm a man of principles and don't mind sharing, but there comes a point when a man must take things for himself. This is one such instance.

    And what an instance it is... :>
    No hard feelings, at all, ol' chap. If she's yours to claim, then who am I to get in the way? ;)

    Did she get you the audition for that Bond role a few months earlier?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @ClarkDevlin, very perceptive. She's actually the woman I read lines with when EON made me do the famous FRWL bed scene to see if I had the Bond "stuff." I'll tell you what, I didn't have to act in love with her during any of it, and I think that was the audition that really got me the gig. What a dame...
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