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No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited December 2016 Posts: 15,423
    I'd rather they don't pull off anything Nolan-like, especially the godawful Dark Knight Rises that arrived ashore a few years ago. As for ditching Madeleine, it's not scrapping her story or papers. That adventure has happened and Bond, as he's done before, moves on, like he's done 20 times before the reboot happened. In the end, he gets it on with the girl, end credits, new entry with new story. And I'd rather they stay standalone.

    While I admit it's not a bad idea for retconning the third act of Spectre with Bond waking up in that chair with all these drills in his neck, it's going to cause a lot of problems, such as memory loss, confused Bond again trying to find out who he is, it'd be too repetitive and for Madeleine to return just to be killed off and make another tragedy arising in Bond's life to a level he'd want to give up on life and commit suicide or something, I'd rather not. What's on demand here by some people is making films, in a nutshell, like this:
    1-Casino Royale
    2-On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    3-Casino Royale
    4-On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    5-Casino Royale
    6-On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    7-Casino Royale
    8-On Her Majesty's Secret Service

    That's what the Craig era is starting to look like. And it's getting really ridiculous.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Or they could ditch the idea of bringing back Madeleine and further injecting tragedy into the Craig era, but make a proper James Bond film with no dilemmas. Forget Madeleine and be done with it.

    I don't like papering over crack, and just wiping out story. I would rather they start Bond 25 with Bond waking up in the chair with drills still in his neck, and that Act 3 of Spectre was all going on in his head, than attempt to just forget Spectre/Swann. The idea also means Blofeld at large rather than have to come up with some story about how he gets out (No repeat of Silva escape), or even duller him orchestrating things from within prison.

    It's not papering over cracks, the story is over. Villain foiled, Bond drives off with a woman under his arm. What has tormented him all these years has been dealt with, he's at peace. What more of the story is there left to tell?

    If that case new timeline and new Bond actor. But I don't think it done yet, I suspect another Craig film with a follow on from Spectre, maybe even the death of Bond? after all they have give Craig the back story, the happy ending, Eon might give him a Sherlock ending.

    Perhaps the ending of YOLT the novel where Bond is missing, presumed dead - without all the Kissy stuff? Although they kind of used that at the start of Skyfall with Bond's obituary etc.

    True, I always liked the start of the TMWG novel that follows on with Bond returning brainwashed to kill M.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Or they could ditch the idea of bringing back Madeleine and further injecting tragedy into the Craig era, but make a proper James Bond film with no dilemmas. Forget Madeleine and be done with it.

    I don't like papering over crack, and just wiping out story. I would rather they start Bond 25 with Bond waking up in the chair with drills still in his neck, and that Act 3 of Spectre was all going on in his head, than attempt to just forget Spectre/Swann. The idea also means Blofeld at large rather than have to come up with some story about how he gets out (No repeat of Silva escape), or even duller him orchestrating things from within prison.

    It's not papering over cracks, the story is over. Villain foiled, Bond drives off with a woman under his arm. What has tormented him all these years has been dealt with, he's at peace. What more of the story is there left to tell?

    If that case new timeline and new Bond actor. But I don't think it done yet, I suspect another Craig film with a follow on from Spectre, maybe even the death of Bond? after all they have give Craig the back story, the happy ending, Eon might give him a Sherlock ending.

    I wouldn't put it past EON to bring back Craig and Mendes for one more. That's not the right move as far as I'm concerned, but they seem happy to give Craig/Mendes whatever creative freedom they want. The Bond series has a tendency of being complacent once a actor gets established in the role. I can't say I blame them, given how risky the new actors can be sometimes. I personally want a soft reboot, as has been mentioned by many here. That's the right move IMO, to quit while they're ahead and start afresh. But I just don't trust EON enough to believe that they will disregard the money that a 5th Craig could bring.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    I'd rather they don't pull off anything Nolan-like, especially the godawful Dark Knight Rises that arrived ashore a few years ago. As for ditching Madeleine, it's not scrapping her story or papers. That adventure has happened and Bond, as he's done before, moves on, like he's done 20 times before the reboot happened. In the end, he gets it on with the girl, end credits, new entry with new story. And I'd rather they stay standalone.

    While I admit it's not a bad idea for retconning the third act of Spectre with Bond waking up in that chair with all these drills in his neck, it's going to cause a lot of problems, such as memory loss, confused Bond again trying to find out who he is, it'd be too repetitive and for Madeleine to return just to be killed off and make another tragedy arising in Bond's life to a level he'd want to give up on life and commit suicide or something, I'd rather not. What's on demand here by some people is making films, in a nutshell, like this:
    1-Casino Royale
    2-On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    3-Casino Royale
    4-On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    5-Casino Royale
    6-On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    7-Casino Royale
    8-On Her Majesty's Secret Service

    That's what the Craig era is starting to look like. And it's getting really ridiculous.

    Imagine the further comparisons to Bourne - if they retconned some kind of amnesia in there!
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited December 2016 Posts: 15,423
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    I'd rather they don't pull off anything Nolan-like, especially the godawful Dark Knight Rises that arrived ashore a few years ago. As for ditching Madeleine, it's not scrapping her story or papers. That adventure has happened and Bond, as he's done before, moves on, like he's done 20 times before the reboot happened. In the end, he gets it on with the girl, end credits, new entry with new story. And I'd rather they stay standalone.

    While I admit it's not a bad idea for retconning the third act of Spectre with Bond waking up in that chair with all these drills in his neck, it's going to cause a lot of problems, such as memory loss, confused Bond again trying to find out who he is, it'd be too repetitive and for Madeleine to return just to be killed off and make another tragedy arising in Bond's life to a level he'd want to give up on life and commit suicide or something, I'd rather not. What's on demand here by some people is making films, in a nutshell, like this:
    1-Casino Royale
    2-On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    3-Casino Royale
    4-On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    5-Casino Royale
    6-On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    7-Casino Royale
    8-On Her Majesty's Secret Service

    That's what the Craig era is starting to look like. And it's getting really ridiculous.

    Imagine the further comparisons to Bourne - if they retconned some kind of amnesia in there!
    The general public and mainstream cinema goers will do exactly that.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Or they could ditch the idea of bringing back Madeleine and further injecting tragedy into the Craig era, but make a proper James Bond film with no dilemmas. Forget Madeleine and be done with it.

    I don't like papering over crack, and just wiping out story. I would rather they start Bond 25 with Bond waking up in the chair with drills still in his neck, and that Act 3 of Spectre was all going on in his head, than attempt to just forget Spectre/Swann. The idea also means Blofeld at large rather than have to come up with some story about how he gets out (No repeat of Silva escape), or even duller him orchestrating things from within prison.

    It's not papering over cracks, the story is over. Villain foiled, Bond drives off with a woman under his arm. What has tormented him all these years has been dealt with, he's at peace. What more of the story is there left to tell?

    If that case new timeline and new Bond actor. But I don't think it done yet, I suspect another Craig film with a follow on from Spectre, maybe even the death of Bond? after all they have give Craig the back story, the happy ending, Eon might give him a Sherlock ending.

    I wouldn't put it past EON to bring back Craig and Mendes for one more. That's not the right move as far as I'm concerned, but they seem happy to give Craig/Mendes whatever creative freedom they want. The Bond series has a tendency of being complacent once a actor gets established in the role. I can't say I blame them, given how risky the new actors can be sometimes. I personally want a soft reboot, as has been mentioned by many here. That's the right move IMO, to quit while they're ahead and start afresh. But I just don't trust EON enough to believe that they will disregard the money that a 5th Craig could bring.

    I think they struggle to make Bond work in the modern world, I wish they be brave enough in the next incarnation to take it back. Although all major Fleming stories have been adapted, the prior films left out a lot of good Fleming idea, a screen writer could go through them and pull out some of it.
  • The_ReaperThe_Reaper
    Posts: 1,092
    I always had a feeling Mendes would return. Daniel wants that, for certain, and if Eon wants Craig back they will let them do what they want to get a final film with them. A trilogy feels right, just like Nolan's BM films. I think it would be really cool to have that for this series. In fact, now that I think about it, it would seem wrong for Mendes not to come back again to finish it all off.

    In the totality of the Bond franchise I think it would fantastic to have a trilogy like that from one director. When has that ever happened before for us? Never. Like him or lump him, Mendes has brought in $2 billion from only two films. They'll do what they have to in order to get him back for one more run.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    I always had a feeling Mendes would return. Daniel wants that, for certain, and if Eon wants Craig back they will let them do what they want to get a final film with them. A trilogy feels right, just like Nolan's BM films. I think it would be really cool to have that for this series. In fact, now that I think about it, it would seem wrong for Mendes not to come back again to finish it all off.

    In the totality of the Bond franchise I think it would fantastic to have a trilogy like that from one director. When has that ever happened before for us? Never. Like him or lump him, Mendes has brought in $2 billion from only two films. They'll do what they have to in order to get him back for one more run.

    Had a feeling for a while Mendes is the hold up, on Spectre Mendes said Craig phoned him every day for 2 weeks begging him to come back and do it.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    edited December 2016 Posts: 4,325
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    I always had a feeling Mendes would return. Daniel wants that, for certain, and if Eon wants Craig back they will let them do what they want to get a final film with them. A trilogy feels right, just like Nolan's BM films. I think it would be really cool to have that for this series. In fact, now that I think about it, it would seem wrong for Mendes not to come back again to finish it all off.

    In the totality of the Bond franchise I think it would fantastic to have a trilogy like that from one director. When has that ever happened before for us? Never. Like him or lump him, Mendes has brought in $2 billion from only two films. They'll do what they have to in order to get him back for one more run.

    Had a feeling for a while Mendes is the hold up, on Spectre Mendes said Craig phoned him every day for 2 weeks begging him to come back and do it.

    I think it's MGM that's the hold up ... Also Mendes nearly walked out on Spectre.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited December 2016 Posts: 2,138
    Waltz sounds like he has unfinished business with Blofeld, he said he did not feel he delivered what he wanted too with it. Perhaps because it's an origin story for Blofeld, now he has been given the scar I expect to see a bald waltz doing a full blown Blofeld.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    Waltz sounds like he has unfinished business with Blofeld, he said he did not feel he delivered what he wanted too with it. Perhaps because it's an origin story for Blofeld, now he has been given the scar I expect to see a bald waltz doing a full blown Blofeld.

    Mr White should have been revealed to be Blofeld.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    Waltz sounds like he has unfinished business with Blofeld, he said he did not feel he delivered what he wanted too with it. Perhaps because it's an origin story for Blofeld, now he has been given the scar I expect to see a bald waltz doing a full blown Blofeld.

    Mr White should have been revealed to be Blofeld.
    I normally agree with everything you say but one of the only story bits in Spectre I liked was what they did with the Character and how they return to Bond catching up with him. Mr White seen in Casino getting his hands dirty, Blofeld never would.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    Waltz sounds like he has unfinished business with Blofeld, he said he did not feel he delivered what he wanted too with it. Perhaps because it's an origin story for Blofeld, now he has been given the scar I expect to see a bald waltz doing a full blown Blofeld.

    Mr White should have been revealed to be Blofeld.
    I normally agree with everything you say but one of the only story bits in Spectre I liked was what they did with the Character and how they return to Bond catching up with him. Mr White seen in Casino getting his hands dirty, Blofeld never would.

    True, I agree.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    No, TigerTanaka is right about that. It would be like the end of the usual suspects. Bond finds White and they become allies. It turns out Whitw indoctrinated Bonds childhood friend, and made it appear like he was behind it all as the ultimate mindf@£k. Then at the end when the day is won, Mr White slinks away again. The camera follow him down a hallway. He opens a door, a white cat runs out. He sits down at a desk, switches a button and an hidden apparatus appears from his desk. He does the evil laugh. Hold on his face.... Cut to black.

    Now that would have gotten me excited for a 5th Craig film. It would include the personal brother angle, but more as a ploy, a bait to get Bonds attention and keep him hooked.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    No, TigerTanaka is right about that. It would be like the end of the usual suspects. Bond finds White and they become allies. It turns out Whitw indoctrinated Bonds childhood friend, and made it appear like he was behind it all as the ultimate mindf@£k. Then at the end when the day is won, Mr White slinks away again. The camera follow him down a hallway. He opens a door, a white cat runs out. He sits down at a desk, switches a button and an hidden apparatus appears from his desk. He does the evil laugh. Hold on his face.... Cut to black.

    Now that would have gotten me excited for a 5th Craig film. It would include the personal brother angle, but more as a ploy, a bait to get Bonds attention and keep him hooked.

    That would have been terrible.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited December 2016 Posts: 15,423
    It depends on how it would have been directed. But, I'd jettison the evil laugh. It's too cartoony. A sadistic smile on his face, however, would have been great.

    If I were them, however, I'd also incorporate Major Dexter Smythe in the background mentions since he was the one to kill Hannes Oberhauser.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited December 2016 Posts: 8,395
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    It depends on how it would have been directed. But, I'd jettison the evil laugh. It's too cartoony. A sadistic smile on his face, however, would have been great.

    If I were them, however, I'd also incorporate Major Dexter Smythe in the background mentions since he was the one to kill Hannes Oberhauser.

    And you can see the light of the monitors in his eyes. I still think it needs the laugh though. I thought SP was supposed to be the embracing of camp Bond. If we are doing it, lets do it right. It doesn't have to be cartoony, just Whites normal strained cackle.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited December 2016 Posts: 2,138
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    It depends on how it would have been directed. But, I'd jettison the evil laugh. It's too cartoony. A sadistic smile on his face, however, would have been great.

    If I were them, however, I'd also incorporate Major Dexter Smythe in the background mentions since he was the one to kill Hannes Oberhauser.

    QOS the game, gave an idea that was not picked up for Skyfall. In the game at the end Bond visits a Manor House where he assassinates White and Guy Hannes.

    Sadly Logan also missed a trick with Spectre, Guy Hannes remember him, he is the PM's right hand man who is caught up with Quantum in the Tosca scene. Hannes should have returned in Spectre as the man ensuring Denbigh lands a position above M. Bond should have caught up with Hannes and interrogated him at some point before making his death appear a suicide.

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited December 2016 Posts: 15,423
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    It depends on how it would have been directed. But, I'd jettison the evil laugh. It's too cartoony. A sadistic smile on his face, however, would have been great.

    If I were them, however, I'd also incorporate Major Dexter Smythe in the background mentions since he was the one to kill Hannes Oberhauser.

    And you can see the light of the monitors in his eyes. I still think it needs the laugh though. I thought SP was supposed to be the embracing of camp Bond. If we are doing it, lets do it right. It doesn't have to be cartoony, just Whites normal strained cackle.
    I still think it would be too campy to have Blofeld showing the "evil laugh". I can't help but picture this when I think about it.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I can live with Mendes coming back. Hopefully he has heard and understood some of the criticisms about SP, and approaches B25 with more humility.

    Sam, it's important to understand that Bond is first and foremost the world's premiere spy franchise. Not a bloody family soap opera! Even Tom Cruise realized that quickly after MI3. Focus on the espionage elements and we will all just be fine. Dump any incentive (no matter how tempting for Craig or anyone else) to go down the revenge angle.

    I'm also ok with Newman returning (I'd prefer him to Arnold), but someone should instruct him to inject a little more Bond theme here and there (not just in the pretitles this time) and to be a little more inventive and creative with the scoring (don't just ape your previous effort lazily, like you did with SP).
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Let's wait and see when's the revealing official word coming out. I wouldn't say it'll be there before July 2017, but I hope I'm wrong.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I can live with Mendes coming back as long as DC does. Bring back Arnold.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    And TND style soundtrack.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    And TND style soundtrack.

    And TND style film. I miss fun Bond.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    And TND style soundtrack.

    And TND style film. I miss fun Bond.
    I believe that kind of Bond film needs a new actor. I really can't see us getting that with Mendes or with Craig to be honest.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,715
    If Craig still can't run too much because of his injury, I hope they give him several other style of action scenes for Bond 25 (car chase, boat chase (?), some big shootout like the Liparus climax in TSWLM).
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    bondjames wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    And TND style soundtrack.

    And TND style film. I miss fun Bond.
    I believe that kind of Bond film needs a new actor. I really can't see us getting that with Mendes or with Craig to be honest.

    I agree.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    And TND style soundtrack.

    And TND style film. I miss fun Bond.
    You're on, sir! :D

    My compliments for your good taste in films.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    I didn't read the article as idle speculati6on.

    Friedman is a Hollywood insider, his article directly speaks to the author of the novel 'The Voyeur's Motel'. It seemingly indicates that Friedman has some kind of inside track on matters occurring behind-the-scenes.

    Interestingly, Friedman was one of the first people to reveal details of Mendes' return for Bond 24. He also confirmed Adele's involvement in SF and released the lyrics ahead of time....
    http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2013/05/31/now-sam-mendes-is-probably-directing-bond-24-which-is-probably-coming-out-i

    Personally, I think the stars are aligning for Sam to return. Here's the evidence:

    - When SP came out he said it would likely be his last Bond film. However, he added the caveat that he could return - he just needed some distance first. Maybe this was just Mendes not wanting to appear churlish and ungrateful at the time, but it's been a year now.
    - We know Craig was apprehensive about doing Spectre without Mendes. If EON wanted DC back, they may also have to get Sam to appease Craig.
    - All of Mendes' post-Bond films have stalled. Instead, he's retreating to the theatre next year doing a play written by the bloke who also wrote Spectre!
    - Mendes has since had a year to think of his decision and has come back and given a definitive "no" to returning. But....he said the exact same thing last time!

    Finally, (and i think this is the most important point).....EON would let him finish the story he begun. I know this runs contrary to everything a lot of fans would want, but I can imagine Sam wanted to come back for this sole reason. (he said he only wanted to do SP as the thought of someone else playing with the characters of M, Q, MP and Bond made him jealous)

    Just as Spectre felt like an end to Craig's era, it also left numerous unanswered questions: Can Bond live happily ever after with Madeleine? Will Blofeld return? These were all questions posed by Sam and likely ones he could be enticed to return and answer. Maybe we could even get a true adapation of YOLT?

    Plus, Mendes loves grabbing a current zeitgesity theme - what better than the ugly return of nationalism and soverignity? Here's an article which pretty much reviews the next Bond film fore it's even been released:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/donald-trump-brexit-article-50-british-passport-james-bond-film-a7434221.html
    (We all know this is where Bond 25 is heading; SF latched on to Assange and SP on Snowden)

    I do feel that Sam burnt out a little with SP....I think SF is a masterpiece because Mendes took his sensibilities and applied them to the Bond formula; however, SF was a Mendes film first. SP was Sam's victory lap. He just wanted to kick-back and have some fun. So we were left with a bloated, silly and disposable Bond film. It felt like his heart wasn't quite in it as much as it was in SF.

    rexfeatures_3243060a.jpg

    If we can get the Mendes who made SF back - that would be amazing! Just not the bloke who made SP.

    I read all those signs as well. I would prefer a SF Mendes with a story he believes in and owns but SP is a worse case scenario and the film of the two that most blatantly demands a Mendes follow up if Mendes does indeed do it.

    I'm cautiously benevolent but admittedly disappointed if true.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    SirHilaryBray wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    It depends on how it would have been directed. But, I'd jettison the evil laugh. It's too cartoony. A sadistic smile on his face, however, would have been great.

    If I were them, however, I'd also incorporate Major Dexter Smythe in the background mentions since he was the one to kill Hannes Oberhauser.

    QOS the game, gave an idea that was not picked up for Skyfall. In the game at the end Bond visits a Manor House where he assassinates White and Guy Hannes.

    That was the original ending to the film.
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