Quantum of Solace Appreciation Thread- We Found a Better Place to Meet

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    I always lose my way when I'm out walking my rodent....
  • edited February 2016 Posts: 15,106
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think you guys are overanalyzing this film (SP I mean). I don't think it's all that complicated really. They had an unfinished script and just filmed it. So it can be interpreted any way one wants. I don't think they really thought this through, although thematically there appears to be more heft to the concept (Dead are alive etc., mouse etc.)

    I don't think we are overanalyzing this: it is a debate and a point of contention over a specific scene, interpreted in two different ways. I'd say the evidences point to at least Blofeld knowing of Hinx and maybe even staging his arrival. Either way, it has nothing to do with an unfinished script. SP has some plot holes, but this is not one of them.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think you guys are overanalyzing this film (SP I mean). I don't think it's all that complicated really. They had an unfinished script and just filmed it. So it can be interpreted any way one wants. I don't think they really thought this through, although thematically there appears to be more heft to the concept (Dead are alive etc., mouse etc.)

    I don't think we are overanalyzing this: it is a debate and a point of contention over a specific scene, interpreted in two different ways. I'd say the evidences point to at least Blofeld knowing of Hinx and maybe even staging his arrival. Either way, it has nothing to do with an unfinished script. SP has some plot holes, but this is not one of them.
    I think both suggestions I've seen here are just as likely. That's the thing about SP to me. So much isn't really filled in, so you can interpret it any way you want. Either it was deliberate or it's just a function of the script.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I for one don't see Hinx as some intruder. It wouldn't make any sense for him to just show up and kill a SP operative. First of all, what does that say about SP's security? I think the movie went out of its way to convey that the meeting in Rome was very top secret and not just anybody could have shown up.

    I thought it was clear that Hinx was a relatively new SP member who was clearly ambitious enough to rise through the ranks by volunteering himself for the job that 2 well known SP operatives were to take on. To showcase his fitness for purpose for the mission he brutally killed a fellow Assassin in front of everyone, demonstrating his skill, power and ability to be a valued member not to be underestimated. Hinx made a statement in more ways than one at the Rome meeting and @RC7 sums it up perfectly here...
    RC7 wrote: »
    I'm surprised this has garnered as much discussion as it has, if I'm honest. Hinx, like everyone else at the meeting, was a Spectre operative (this isn't some music gig where Blofeld demands an audience) who simply steps forward when the opportunity arises - his credentials being that he's a ruthless mother f*****. Blofeld likes what he sees. That's it. Simple.

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited February 2016 Posts: 11,139
    SonofSean wrote: »
    I will always defend QOS. Sure, the script is hardly thrill-a-minute (the big plan is the global domination of...H20! Really?) and the plane sequence is dull, but...the fight scenes, the opening car chase, thhat great David Arnold score and Daniel Craig just oozes class. Oh, and the opera scene. Most single most favourite moment in all of Bond. Love it.

    How invested in current affairs are you? Because believe it or not, water is a serious economic and geopolitical issue that's REALLY going to take centre stage in the not too distant future where wars will start over it. That is a guarantee. QoS was way ahead of the curve in this particular regard and I forsee the movie to experience a new found appreciation by the masses in the years to come.

    It's amazing how flawed QoS is but it's probably the most creatively poignant Bond movie in the series if not, outside CR. It's definitely second best Bond movie of the Craig era as far as I'm concerned.
  • Posts: 15,106
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think you guys are overanalyzing this film (SP I mean). I don't think it's all that complicated really. They had an unfinished script and just filmed it. So it can be interpreted any way one wants. I don't think they really thought this through, although thematically there appears to be more heft to the concept (Dead are alive etc., mouse etc.)

    I don't think we are overanalyzing this: it is a debate and a point of contention over a specific scene, interpreted in two different ways. I'd say the evidences point to at least Blofeld knowing of Hinx and maybe even staging his arrival. Either way, it has nothing to do with an unfinished script. SP has some plot holes, but this is not one of them.
    I think both suggestions I've seen here are just as likely. That's the thing about SP to me. So much isn't really filled in, so you can interpret it any way you want. Either it was deliberate or it's just a function of the script.

    Like @doubleoego pointed out, there is no doubt that Hinx was meant to be at this meeting.
    doubleoego wrote: »
    SonofSean wrote: »
    I will always defend QOS. Sure, the script is hardly thrill-a-minute (the big plan is the global domination of...H20! Really?) and the plane sequence is dull, but...the fight scenes, the opening car chase, thhat great David Arnold score and Daniel Craig just oozes class. Oh, and the opera scene. Most single most favourite moment in all of Bond. Love it.

    How invested in current affairs are you? Because believe it or not, water is a serious economic and geopolitical issue that's REALLY going to take centre stage in the not too distant future where wars will start over it. That is a guarantee. QoS was way ahead of the curve in this particular regard and I forsee the movie to experience a new found appreciation by the masses in the years to come.

    It's amazing how flawed QoS is but it's probably the most creatively poignant Bond movie in the series if not, outside CR. It's definitely second best Bond movie of the Craig era as far as I'm concerned.

    People criticizing the scheme in QOS indeed don't know the importance of water in economy and geopolitic. Even today. And if it was dumb in QOS, then it must have been a stupid scheme in Chinatown, Once Upon a Time in the West and Jean de Floret too.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think you guys are overanalyzing this film (SP I mean). I don't think it's all that complicated really. They had an unfinished script and just filmed it. So it can be interpreted any way one wants. I don't think they really thought this through, although thematically there appears to be more heft to the concept (Dead are alive etc., mouse etc.)

    I don't think we are overanalyzing this: it is a debate and a point of contention over a specific scene, interpreted in two different ways. I'd say the evidences point to at least Blofeld knowing of Hinx and maybe even staging his arrival. Either way, it has nothing to do with an unfinished script. SP has some plot holes, but this is not one of them.
    I think both suggestions I've seen here are just as likely. That's the thing about SP to me. So much isn't really filled in, so you can interpret it any way you want. Either it was deliberate or it's just a function of the script.

    Like @doubleoego pointed out, there is no doubt that Hinx was meant to be at this meeting.
    Obviously. However, whether he is a SPECTRE operative or some kind of contract gun hired directly by Blofeld outside the normal realm is not clear, as others were clearly uncomfortable with his presence. As I said, imagine away, because they don't really tell you anything. He seemed to be acting outside orders when he shows up on the train, but again, one can speculate that he was there to just kill Madeline and not Bond. However, he didn't put a bullet in her at the clinic, but rather, tried to sneak her out. Imagine away.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,583
    SonofSean wrote: »
    I will always defend QOS. Sure, the script is hardly thrill-a-minute (the big plan is the global domination of...H20! Really?) and the plane sequence is dull, but...the fight scenes, the opening car chase, thhat great David Arnold score and Daniel Craig just oozes class. Oh, and the opera scene. Most single most favourite moment in all of Bond. Love it.

    I don't know if global domination was Quantum's "game." It was making money. And money = power. Greene's plan, and it seemed easy to pull off, was to control the water supply and therefore....make millions and millions. It's a plotline similar to the one in Chinatown.
  • Posts: 1,631
    TripAces wrote: »
    SonofSean wrote: »
    I will always defend QOS. Sure, the script is hardly thrill-a-minute (the big plan is the global domination of...H20! Really?) and the plane sequence is dull, but...the fight scenes, the opening car chase, thhat great David Arnold score and Daniel Craig just oozes class. Oh, and the opera scene. Most single most favourite moment in all of Bond. Love it.

    I don't know if global domination was Quantum's "game." It was making money. And money = power. Greene's plan, and it seemed easy to pull off, was to control the water supply and therefore....make millions and millions. It's a plotline similar to the one in Chinatown.

    Agreed. Domination of the world's water supply wasn't the goal. Their goal was strictly the domination of Bolivia's water supply as a means to make money off of the back of the political coup that they were working with General Medrano.

    The plot of QoS has always been a plot that I've defended as being particularly frightening, even though it seems to get a lot of flack from all directions. I like these kinds of smaller scale and focused villainous plots rather than the standard world domination plots that a lot of the Bond films seem to lean towards.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    What's great about Quantum's plot in QoS is deception. They're playing all sides. It's all about making one sided deals, and ensuring they end up the ultimate winner. They are using the other party's greed against them. US for oil, and Medrano for power. That speech Greene gives Medrano at the end (ending with 'balls in your mouth') is one the best I've heard.
  • Posts: 12,462
    I always liked the Quantum organization a lot. They're probably done in the Bond series because of QoS's mixed reception and the limited nods in SP, but I really enjoyed their presence while it lasted. I also think Greene is kind of underrated.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I always liked the Quantum organization a lot. They're probably done in the Bond series because of QoS's mixed reception and the limited nods in SP, but I really enjoyed their presence while it lasted. I also think Greene is kind of underrated.

    I think the use of a criminal organisation worked in the 60s because they treated SPECTRE ironically as the evil criminal organisation playing of te East and the West. Nobody thought that in fact there could be that man with the white cat who is making all the crazy plans of world domination. I have never taken that same old story too seriously in those films and that is the reason why I liked it.
    With Qunatum however they tried to make a more realistic plot and for me that simply doesn't work. For a serious spy thriller the plot is not developed well enough. Every villain's plan should at least be a little bit creative. I don't even mind the water controll plan but we do see nothing of it. All we see is a villain who is speaking to some people and who is signing contracts. That is just broing.The problem is, like in the latest film Spectre, they just say they are evil but we don't see it. So it does not really affect me. It is also very obvious for everyone who is bad and who is good in this film. However, a criminal organisation operating in the shadows requires less obvious agents. They could have easily made the villains more interesting and included one or two plot twists in that film.

  • edited February 2016 Posts: 15,106
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think you guys are overanalyzing this film (SP I mean). I don't think it's all that complicated really. They had an unfinished script and just filmed it. So it can be interpreted any way one wants. I don't think they really thought this through, although thematically there appears to be more heft to the concept (Dead are alive etc., mouse etc.)

    I don't think we are overanalyzing this: it is a debate and a point of contention over a specific scene, interpreted in two different ways. I'd say the evidences point to at least Blofeld knowing of Hinx and maybe even staging his arrival. Either way, it has nothing to do with an unfinished script. SP has some plot holes, but this is not one of them.
    I think both suggestions I've seen here are just as likely. That's the thing about SP to me. So much isn't really filled in, so you can interpret it any way you want. Either it was deliberate or it's just a function of the script.

    Like @doubleoego pointed out, there is no doubt that Hinx was meant to be at this meeting.
    Obviously. However, whether he is a SPECTRE operative or some kind of contract gun hired directly by Blofeld outside the normal realm is not clear, as others were clearly uncomfortable with his presence. As I said, imagine away, because they don't really tell you anything. He seemed to be acting outside orders when he shows up on the train, but again, one can speculate that he was there to just kill Madeline and not Bond. However, he didn't put a bullet in her at the clinic, but rather, tried to sneak her out. Imagine away.

    I don't think we need to know precisely if Hinx is a full member of SPECTRE or not. We see the meeting through Bond's eyes and he has fragmentary knowledge of the man and the organization. I don't think it is very important to know the background of Hinx either. As for his actions changing focus, his orders may have changed through the movie. And it's not like it never happened in a Bond movie before, even the classic ones: Goldfinger did murdered an entire squad of mobsters after telling them in details of his plan to rob Fort Knox. With high tech props, no less.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think you guys are overanalyzing this film (SP I mean). I don't think it's all that complicated really. They had an unfinished script and just filmed it. So it can be interpreted any way one wants. I don't think they really thought this through, although thematically there appears to be more heft to the concept (Dead are alive etc., mouse etc.)

    I don't think we are overanalyzing this: it is a debate and a point of contention over a specific scene, interpreted in two different ways. I'd say the evidences point to at least Blofeld knowing of Hinx and maybe even staging his arrival. Either way, it has nothing to do with an unfinished script. SP has some plot holes, but this is not one of them.
    I think both suggestions I've seen here are just as likely. That's the thing about SP to me. So much isn't really filled in, so you can interpret it any way you want. Either it was deliberate or it's just a function of the script.

    Like @doubleoego pointed out, there is no doubt that Hinx was meant to be at this meeting.
    Obviously. However, whether he is a SPECTRE operative or some kind of contract gun hired directly by Blofeld outside the normal realm is not clear, as others were clearly uncomfortable with his presence. As I said, imagine away, because they don't really tell you anything. He seemed to be acting outside orders when he shows up on the train, but again, one can speculate that he was there to just kill Madeline and not Bond. However, he didn't put a bullet in her at the clinic, but rather, tried to sneak her out. Imagine away.

    I don't think we need to know precisely if Hinx is a full member of SPECTRE or not. We see the meeting through Bond's eyes and he has fragmentary knowledge of the man and the organization. I don't think it is very important to know the background of Hinx either. As for his actions changing focus, his orders may have changed through the movie. And it's not like it never happened in a Bond movie before, even the classic ones: Goldfinger did murdered an entire squad of mobsters after telling them in details of his plan to rob Fort Knox. With high tech props, no less.
    Fair enough, but that doesn't change the fact that it's open to interpretation and that it's not clarified either way, which is my point. One can defend that if desired, but it is what it is. We don't really know who Hinx is or what he's doing there. All we know is that he had security clearance to be there and he gets the job to take out White. His other objectives may have been to kill Madeline (although he didn't when he had the chance) or it may have been to kill Bond (in which case Blofeld's welcome for him at the base seems unusual). Keep in mind that Blofeld probably knew Bond was at the meeting all along (after the Mickey Mouse incident) and could have apprehended him at any time.

    At the end of the day, as I said, this one isn't really worth too much analysis. Roll with it and enjoy it if you can. That's the kind of Bond film it is.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited February 2016 Posts: 1,756
    I have recently found a new love for QoS. I always loved the movie ever since I was basically a teen. But it's definitely gotten better with age.

    QoS is the kind of movie for Bond fans who prefer FRWL over Goldfinger. It's not a classic Bond film and it was never trying to be that. It's not your John Glen generic formula. That's what I love about this movie. It was unique and it had a style which I really like. It didn't waste a single second and I love the chaotic nature of the editing. The story is believable. The villain is frighteningly not far from reality. He represents the true evil of his own selfishness at the dispense of others, which is what most politicians and organisations do under the table. So it's nice to see Bond finally take justice not against a man trying to take over the world but balance morality and payback when it's due. Bond is not a psychopath and genuinely cares for others in this movie, but isn't afraid to be the cold blooded bastard Bond is.

    The story is also excellently paced and intelligent. The action is tense. The relationships between the characters are perfectly balanced and feel believable. This film is extremely re-watchable too. Truly an underrated classic. It also features one of the best scores since the John Barry days, and uses the Bond theme sparingly, which I actually really appreciate.

    Excellently acted. Hopefully it will be appreciated as time goes on.

    That's why I rate this Bond film only second to Casino.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    With a username like @dominicgreene, you better be defending the movie to the death like I do! Even though CR just barely edges it out as my favorite Craig entry, QoS is probably the one that I most enjoyed in theaters. I was so blown away when I first saw it, all I had on my mind was seeing it again and again after that. Caught it five times in theaters, bought the blu-ray day one, and I've seen it dozens and dozens of times since. Very unique, highly thrilling. I knew I was in for something special when the movie opened to that score slowly kicking in as we get that beautiful landscape shot, just to hear the opening track get more and more grandiose as the engines finally kick in and the exciting PTS chase begins.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    QOS is #4 on my list.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    There seems to be a '2nd outing slump' that a lot of people talk about. But I just don't see it - TMWTGG, LTK, TND and QOS are among my favorite Bond films and are very rewatchable.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    There seems to be a '2nd outing slump' that a lot of people talk about. But I just don't see it - TMWTGG, LTK, TND and QOS are among my favorite Bond films and are very rewatchable.
    Agreed on all counts.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    TMWTGG is my least favorite in the series; not that it's a bad film, I still enjoy all Bond entries, but it has the least amount of enjoyability/rewatchability for me.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    TMWTGG is my least favorite in the series; not that it's a bad film, I still enjoy all Bond entries, but it has the least amount of enjoyability/rewatchability for me.
    It's a wacky cool ride for me. Moore & Lee are great, and the music's by Barry- that's all I need.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    All apart from TND are quirky and a little off beat. Different.

    I've always felt Brosnan should have had his quirky Bond film too, but they went straight into TSWLM territory with his 2nd, which may have been better left for his 3rd.
  • Posts: 15,106
    There seems to be a '2nd outing slump' that a lot of people talk about. But I just don't see it - TMWTGG, LTK, TND and QOS are among my favorite Bond films and are very rewatchable.

    I call it the curse of the second movie. Only FRWL did not have it. All others were on released criticized negatively in comparison to the previous one. Regardless of their intrinsic value.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote: »
    There seems to be a '2nd outing slump' that a lot of people talk about. But I just don't see it - TMWTGG, LTK, TND and QOS are among my favorite Bond films and are very rewatchable.

    I call it the curse of the second movie. Only FRWL did not have it. All others were on released criticized negatively in comparison to the previous one. Regardless of their intrinsic value.

    So true. One could only wonder how a Lazenby DAF would have faired.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Ludovico wrote: »
    There seems to be a '2nd outing slump' that a lot of people talk about. But I just don't see it - TMWTGG, LTK, TND and QOS are among my favorite Bond films and are very rewatchable.

    I call it the curse of the second movie. Only FRWL did not have it. All others were on released criticized negatively in comparison to the previous one. Regardless of their intrinsic value.

    So true. One could only wonder how a Lazenby DAF would have faired.

    It was done without him. That's quite a curse in itself.
  • SonofSean wrote: »
    I will always defend QOS. Sure, the script is hardly thrill-a-minute (the big plan is the global domination of...H20! Really?) and the plane sequence is dull, but...the fight scenes, the opening car chase, thhat great David Arnold score and Daniel Craig just oozes class. Oh, and the opera scene. Most single most favourite moment in all of Bond. Love it.

    Pretty much agree with all of this. Like this picture. It's weak in story, I agree, but some cool stuff here. And that ending is just awesome.
  • Posts: 1,386
    I liked this exchange:

    Bond: I promised them Le Chiffre and they got Le Chiffre.

    M: They got his body.

    Bond: If they wanted his soul, they should have made a deal with a priest.

    And I liked this Mathis line adapted from CR:

    When one is young it seems so very easy to distinguish between right and wrong. But as one gets older it becomes more difficult, the villains and the heroes get all mixed up.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Yes, those are great moments.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Just popping in to declare my newfound appreciation for Quantum.

    Is there some kind of intiation ceremony?
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    QoS is a great film and doesn't try too hard to constantly tap audiences on the shoulder reminding them that this is a Bond film.
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