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The only composer who I've been continually disappointed with out of all them (including Serra) and who I don't personally rate highly, is David Arnold. This is because his orchestral work for the most part (there are exceptions) was 3rd rate compared to Barry and yet seemed very derivative of the genius, like a hack . Also I don't like what he brought of his own - namely the techno stuff and the busy, frenzied and chaotic (to my ears anyway) action scoring.
I agree with others here that Danny Elfman, Michael Giacchino & Atticus Ross/Trent Reznor would all probably be amazing, as would Hans Zimmer (yes I even like him) or even Howard Shore (his work for the original LOTR is absolutely first class).
As I've said though, I think we're going to get a very good score from Newman this time.
I find the view that a Bond score which lacks 'aural signposts' is a good thing, quite amusing.
Well, I've got news then. I don't give a damn :-p.
The GoldenEye Overture
The Severnaya Suite
Whispering statues.
That's what keeps you alone.
Run, Shoot and Jump
And while Eric Serra didn't compose this last track, It's still a highlight of GoldenEye's score.
Tank Drive around St. Petersburg.
Agree on both counts.
I rate CR and QoS as excellent soundtracks, up there with the best that Barry did.
Sorry, I can't agree. Yes, Arnold's earlier Bond scores incorporated a lot of electro/techno music. But he'll, those scores were also way more memorable, because of the use of better compositions and melodies. Melodies that stick better to your mind.
Therefore I still rate TND and TWINE Arnold's finest Bond scoring. Tracks like "Backseat Driver" and "007 Your Time Is Up" really used these wunderful secondary melodies. Not to mention some utterly romantic cues like "Snow Business". It also helped that both Bond films had secondary theme song: "Surrender" for TND and "Only Myself To Blame" for TWINE. They really helped giving the score more musical depth and soul.
With CR and QOS I can't help but feeling Arnold forced himself too much to strip down the scores into something "rougher, more purer, less melódical". Result was that it sounded too forced. Also, when you decide not to use the James Bond theme, then for goodness sake compose a new action theme music, like "Surrender"! He didn't.
He composed YKMN.
Totally agree. I'd go for TND as my favourite, I think it's a belter.
Like this one? This is actually the slightly different, final movie-edit, which I like most:
What I love about this action track, is that it incorporates the very strong melodies of both Arnold's composition "Surrender" and Monty Norman's "James Bond Theme" with such skillfully perfection. It's a perfect example of how actually John Barry would have composed it, if he was still onboard for TND. Also, the electronical percussions/pieces (Propellorheads/Arnold) which set the rhytmn, the scratching (add a bit of 90-ies vibe), the blaring horns/trumpets, the Barry-esque string sections and the funny bit of piano-intermezzo seamlessly work: they are all combined in one hell of a perfect total package.
With a composition/tune like "YKMN" you could not have created such an action track. Not all James Bond songs lend themselves very well for an action track.
I'm very sorry to hear you say this. I don't hear anything Barry'esque whatsoever in the above. Just nighclub techno noise with the Bond theme incorporated. This is precisely what I don't like about Arnold's work. To each their own, and I understand this is subjective, but I am not a fan of it at all, and I don't hear Barry above whatsoever.
There were much better compositions in TND imho, although I still prefer his CR & QoS (especially the latter)..
YKMN was a high water mark for Arnold and Bond from my point of view.
Then we disagree. I think a track like "Backseat Driver" is more Barry-esque, even more comparable to Barry's own "Ice Chase" and "Inflight Fight" from "TLD". John Barry really experimented with tech sounds as well on that score, basically re-inventing the James Bond Theme in a skillful way, using it as a rhytmic piece, similar to what David Arnold did with "Backseat Driver". Also, he used the melodies of "Where Has Everybody Gone" and "The Living Daylights" seamlessly, just like Arnold did with "Surrender".
Yes, I agree these tracks show off their age (80's vs. 90's), but I don't mind it.
For me, Arnold's later scores on "CR" and "QOS" are simply too rough-edged. Especially the action cues lack any kind of memorable piece of melody. I can humm accords from OHMSS's "Ski Chase", TLD's "Inflight Fight" and TND's "Backseat Driver". I can't do it with QOS's "Time To Get Out".
That Arnold thing you posted earlier from TND is a joke imho compared to the last two from Barry's Bond swansong.
As I said, I'm not musically trained, but one sounds like loud frenzied, chaotic, uncoordinated nightclub noise (I almost expect to see some snot nosed kid playing with a scratchy turntable) and the other two sound like the work of a compositional genius with refinement and finesse - just to my ears. There's a difference between subtle use & incorporation of synthesizers which I am not averse to (Barry, even in OHMSS when it was new) and overuse of techno scratch which every other composer knows should not be anywhere near a Bond film (Arnold) imho.
I liked QoS and CR and think they are big improvements but for the most part, Arnold just sucked for me (and I am not so forceful in my criticisms normally so you can imagine how bad he was for me during most of his tenure for me to get this worked up about it - especially when he is compared to Barry).
I personally even think the Goldeneye overture above from the much maligned GE score just blows that Arnold composition away.
Totally agree with you: For all its faults, The Living Daylights is one of my more favored Bonds mainly because of the score. As you say, its akin to On Her Majesty's Secret Service in terms of the overarching musical themes, and a total "hummability" to the whole thing.
David Arnold's work, for me at least, not so much.
I just felt with CR he really starting nailing a pure Barry sound. Vesper's theme in Venice just sounds like Somewhere in Time and Hanover Street, and moments in CR really had some of the best sounds we've heard in years - Bond driving his Ford Mondeo in Nassau, Bond trying on his tux for the first time, meeting Mr. White at the end, etc.
In QoS Arnold really did evoke early 1970's John Barry, particularly Night at the Opera.
As for scoring the films with songs, he did YKMN, and also No Good About Goodbyes with Shirley Bassey for QoS (which criminally didn't get used, and we had to suffer the worst Bond song of all time instead).....
Much as I really don't like Arnold, I agree with you on your last post @jetsetwilly. CR & QoS were his best, and African Rundown & Night at the Opera were excellent. YKMN is outstanding - damn shame it's not on the soundtrack cd.
Cheers.... :!!
I'm not sure what planet Gustav Graves is on by not liking CR and QoS, yet liking all the Brozza tracks, but there you go. Each to their own. Maybe he is a Brozza fan and doesn't like Craig..... ;))
For what I know, Gustav Graves prefers Craig to Brosnan. I guess the music for a certain Bond doesn't affect our preference for his performance, considering I prefer Brosnan to Craig but I think Arnold's scores for CR and QoS are better than those he did for TND, TWINE and DAD.
Exactly. I'm a big big fan of the Craig films, but after QOS I couldn't help thinking "When will they replace Arnold?". There were even topics about that, quite popular ones, on this forum around that time :-).
In all honesty, with Arnold everything started off so great, it was still good in TWINE. But on the whole Arnold's career for me on Bond feels like a downward spirale.
TWINE is the bottom of the pile for me in every way, including the soundtrack which I personally can't stand, along with DAD's.
I think Arnold came closest (although still some way away) to Barry with CR (since he incorporated YKMN well into the score) but to me QoS is his most original, best score while still sounding suitably Bondian. However it's a testament to how poorly I see his tenure that I rank his first 3 below all other composers (and on par with Serra).
QoS and CR to me are on par with all the other one-off composers (Conti, Hamlisch, Kamen, Newman) but below Martin who I thought was absolutely brilliant.
All Barry's are above all of the others, but to me, Martin came closest to creating something special for Bond outside of the Barry sound.
I might suggest getting your ears syringed.
Barry's genius with melody and pure memorable sound has no rivals, they are all playing catchup. YKMN & Time To Get Out are probably amongst Arnold's best but approaching the likes of Bond Back In Action or It Never Happened To The Other Fella, not in your wildest dreams.
It's like suggesting What's The Story Morning Glory compares to Revolver or that any Coldplay or Snow Patrol album gets to height of Achtung Baby or Ok Computer.
One is an innovator who truly presents their own sound and the other is just standing on their shoulder with no originality, offering pale cover versions in comparison.
No one will ever replace Barry, but I would still rather have a Barry copy-cat rip-off sound in a Bond film, rather than something new and different. And I like the fact that Arnold is a huge Barry fan - it does help when you hear sounds that are emulating the Barry sound, from a composer that has obviously studied all of Barry's work in-depth, and worships the ground he walked on.
Can anyone remember the closing tune at the Olympic Games, which was musically arranged by David Arnold. Yes, it was John Barry's Dances With Wolves. Even then, he has to work Barry in somewhere. I like that about him.
When my wife watched CR for the first time, and the Venice scenes appeared, accompanied by Arnold's sweeping score, she said `isn't that the same guy doing the music that did Somewhere in Time?
I defy anyone to tell me the Vesper theme doesn't sound anything remotely like John Barry, because its utter BS. It is definitely a Barry sound, and yes, I've been listening to Barry for the best part of 37 years too, and he is still my favourite composer.
What's the Story vs Revolver....ohhhh! Tough one! Both great albums, IMO.
I still prefer Be Here Now.....although I'm in the minority on that one. :>
I think you are in the minority with that opinion on here, because it looks like most fans think Arnold improved during his tenure, with CR and particularly QoS being his best work on Bond.
http://www.classicfm.com/radio/shows/saturday-night-movies/thomas-randy-newman/