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LTK - is it really more adult than the rest?

TroyTroy
in Bond Movies Posts: 342
There seems to be a view that LTK is somehow a more adult film than others. I don't really see that - there does not appear to be anything in the film that is not featured in the other films.

What do others think?
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Comments

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    With LTK I think they really tried to bring back " Fleming" to Bond. It's one
    Of my top three Bond films.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Ehhh, not anything to get upset about.
  • OnlyManWhoCanOnlyManWhoCan Greater London
    Posts: 202
    I think it's the tone of the film more than what happens, although I do feel what with the head exploding, dismemberment-by-shark, implied rape, Sanchez' fiery death etc. there's a little bit more ultra-violence than in the other films.

    In the UK the Bond films were all rated PG until LTK, which was rated 15, meaning little old me had to wait to GE to get their first big screen Bond fix
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    It's more graphically violent and the tone is perhaps slightly more 'grown up', certainly compared to the later Moore entries. Sanchez is more of a 'real world' and genuinely threatening character than most villains. You genuinely believe he would happily kill anyone. It adds a new frisson of danger.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    I don't know about more adult. Not for kids, though...
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    The Bond films all have an air of fun to them; globetrotting around, beautiful women, interesting gadgets, food, drink and high-lifestyle.
    In LTK he basically gives that stuff up to find the guy who fed his friend to a shark so he could light him on fire while being held at machete-point.
    Yeah I'd call this a bit more adult.

    Not to say that the two tones I've described above are mutually exclusive, but LTK takes the darker tone to a higher level than any (as has already been pointed out).
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    DrGorner wrote: »
    With LTK I think they really tried to bring back " Fleming" to Bond. It's one
    Of my top three Bond films.

    You are clearly a man of good taste.
  • sunsanvilsunsanvil Somewhere in Canada....somewhere.
    Posts: 260
    "is it really more adult than the rest?"

    Interestingly, I never registered it as such. The underpinnings of the story may be more mature, perhaps even one of the best, but the execution for me bordered on "farce".
  • Matt007Matt007
    Posts: 1,314
    Tonally i think its all over the place. It tries to be both Traditional Bond and also more adult to the detriment of both. It confuses violence with being grown up. Timecop is violent, but not adult. Not really.

    You have a film which features a girl being whipped, Muchael G Wilsons unintentionally hilarious "Let get the Bastard" (Oooh they swore, this must be more adult!!!), and then a joke where the bridesmaids pick up the parachutes like a wedding train.

    Add to that the love scene on the boat with Pam which comes out of nowehere and Lupis admission she loves James so much despite spending less than the run time of an episode of Eastenders with him. Then up Pops Q as a comedy sidekick.

    However, as a whole i think its a good film. It just doesnt really commit to one thing. It dips its toe in the water, but John Glen is not an accomplished enough director to add weight to the violence.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I think it Glenns best Bond film by far. The scrript also borrws liberally from the LALD novel which is also great. Plus we have a character from the Hilldbrand rariety story. The best 007 film of the 80's for me.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited March 2015 Posts: 11,425
    John Glen himself agrees with you - he thinks it was his best Bond movie as well.

    I am a big fan of the Glen era, so saying LTK is the 'best' is a big call to make. But I love the respect and adoration that both Dalton and LTK are getting from a growing number of fans. I think, as with OHMSS and Lazenby, it's taken time for people to appreciate what was right there under their noses all along - some cracking Bond movies and an excellent Bond.

    I've never understood the stick Glen gets around here. So he was not 'accomplished' enough? Directed some bl**dy entertaining Bond movies though, didn't he? Perhaps with the exception of AVTAK (which still has plenty of enjoyable moments), his films are firmly ensconsed in the top half of my rankings.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    I like Glen's simple yet effective storytelling style.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited March 2015 Posts: 11,425
    He was brilliant at putting together generally very tight, well told stories. Yes they're simple, and I know you mean that as a compliment, but a lot of people take that as a sign of his incompetence. I think what Glen had was craftsmanship and technical ability in spades. He really knew how to put a movie together. Reducing things down to their essence is a real skill. People forget he was heavily involved in the actions sequences for years on Bond. He played a major role in the look and feel of some of Bond's greatest moments on screen. A bit of a legend IMO.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    As I said in another thread, Glen's films had a sense of warmth about them. Q, M, Moneypenny, Defense Minister and General Gogol were familiar faces in each film from 1981 to 1987. I understand for some it was maybe getting dull and predictable, but for me there was some sense of relief that I know what to expect in those films. For me it was the peak of the 1962-1989 era. From 1995 onwards I had no idea what to expect with each next film. Not saying it's a bad film, but each new film felt like an experimentation.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    More blood and guts and violent perhaps, but not necessarily more adult than anything previous. to LTK.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Getafix wrote: »
    He was brilliant at putting together generally very tight, well told stories. Yes they're simple, and I know you mean that as a compliment, but a lot of people take that as a sign of his incompetence. I think what Glen had was craftsmanship and technical ability in spades. He really knew how to put a movie together. Reducing things down to their essence is a real skill. People forget he was heavily involved in the actions sequences for years on Bond. He played a major role in the look and feel of some of Bond's greatest moments on screen. A bit of a legend IMO.

    Indeed. He got the job done and allowed his team to do theirs. There are no airs and graces or pretentiousness to his films. He was essentially a craftsman, and a damn good one.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    It just didn't have enough cowbell
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited March 2015 Posts: 11,425
    I can see how some people think LTK falls between two stools. I actually think it does a decent job of WALKING A TIGHTROPE exploring new territory. Making Bond a little edgier, while maintaining many of the classic ingredients. It's not my favourite Bond movie, but it's grown on me a lot over the years.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I saw some of LTK on Saturday on ITV. It's a decent film and I do enjoy it. Davi in particular shines and Dalton is solid. However the film lacks one critical ingredient - panache. With the exception of the tanker chase at the end I can't think of many moments featuring genuinely impressive cinematography. Yes there's some good stunt work in the action but the film as a whole has a "plain" quality to it.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited March 2015 Posts: 11,425
    So the bit where Bond waterskis behind the plane lacks panache? That's one of my favourite Bond action sequences. No nonsense, great stuntwork, and plenty of panache IMO. ;)

    I think for the Dalton fans, everything he does has panache though @BAIN. It's about how he walks into a room. His voice, etc. When I rewatched it recently the whole film was just a lot better than I remember. I think Dalton's pretty cool in it, but I know others differ.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    As I said some of the action IS very good. I mean in terms of the film's LOOK. Its colour scene is mainly white with a few greens and browns here and there. Say what you like about CR (or even MR for that matter) but those films look beautiful.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Tonally i think its all over the place. It tries to be both Traditional Bond and also more adult to the detriment of both. It confuses violence with being grown up. Timecop is violent, but not adult. Not really.

    You have a film which features a girl being whipped, Muchael G Wilsons unintentionally hilarious "Let get the Bastard" (Oooh they swore, this must be more adult!!!), and then a joke where the bridesmaids pick up the parachutes like a wedding train.

    Add to that the love scene on the boat with Pam which comes out of nowehere and Lupis admission she loves James so much despite spending less than the run time of an episode of Eastenders with him. Then up Pops Q as a comedy sidekick.

    However, as a whole i think its a good film. It just doesnt really commit to one thing. It dips its toe in the water, but John Glen is not an accomplished enough director to add weight to the violence.

    I agree with you. As for tone LTK has more in common with FYEO, OP and AKTAK than it does QoS or SF. I was surprised, because I watched it for the first time in a couple of years and after hearing people harp endlessly that Craig's films were the heirs of Daltons and how they vindicated Dalton's much maligned take on Bond I was surprised as how light and fun the tone even if LTK was. Yes, there's some very dark things that happen, but the film doesn't dwell on them, and has plenty of humor that more than balances it out (or makes it inconsistent, as the case may be). I mean, how serious can a movie featuring Wayne Newton as a televangelist be?
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    As I said some of the action IS very good. I mean in terms of the film's LOOK. Its colour scene is mainly white with a few greens and browns here and there. Say what you like about CR (or even MR for that matter) but those films look beautiful.

    Fair point. Still an enjoyable movie though. And you are comparing it to two of the best looking entries in the series.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Sark wrote: »
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Tonally i think its all over the place. It tries to be both Traditional Bond and also more adult to the detriment of both. It confuses violence with being grown up. Timecop is violent, but not adult. Not really.

    You have a film which features a girl being whipped, Muchael G Wilsons unintentionally hilarious "Let get the Bastard" (Oooh they swore, this must be more adult!!!), and then a joke where the bridesmaids pick up the parachutes like a wedding train.

    Add to that the love scene on the boat with Pam which comes out of nowehere and Lupis admission she loves James so much despite spending less than the run time of an episode of Eastenders with him. Then up Pops Q as a comedy sidekick.

    However, as a whole i think its a good film. It just doesnt really commit to one thing. It dips its toe in the water, but John Glen is not an accomplished enough director to add weight to the violence.

    I agree with you. As for tone LTK has more in common with FYEO, OP and AKTAK than it does QoS or SF. I was surprised, because I watched it for the first time in a couple of years and after hearing people harp endlessly that Craig's films were the heirs of Daltons and how they vindicated Dalton's much maligned take on Bond I was surprised as how light and fun the tone even if LTK was. Yes, there's some very dark things that happen, but the film doesn't dwell on them, and has plenty of humor that more than balances it out (or makes it inconsistent, as the case may be). I mean, how serious can a movie featuring Wayne Newton as a televangelist be?

    Very true actually. Rewatching it I was really struck by how underneath it really is a traditional Bond movie.
  • NapoleonPluralNapoleonPlural
    Posts: 512
    They've had a Sunday afternoon of Bonds on the UK's ITV since Dr No, but it appears to have stopped after TLD, so really LTK is just too much for lunchtime viewing and can't be edited, even though they kept in the Red Grant fight and the bathtime electrolysis from GF, which often get cut. LTK just doesn't have that compensating sense of fun.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Getafix wrote: »
    Rewatching it I was really struck by how underneath it really is a traditional Bond movie.
    Yep, the villain's lair blows up! This is why I love Dalton's movies: something old, something new, bits of books borrowed, up some stuff he blew.
    ;)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Rewatching it I was really struck by how underneath it really is a traditional Bond movie.
    Yep, the villain's lair blows up! This is why I love Dalton's movies: something old, something new, bits of books borrowed, up some stuff he blew.
    ;)

    And nothing directly copied. Reverence not replication.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Another LTK thread???
  • JCRendleJCRendle
    Posts: 1,552
    NapoleonPlural wrote: »
    They've had a Sunday afternoon of Bonds on the UK's ITV since Dr No, but it appears to have stopped after TLD, so really LTK is just too much for lunchtime viewing and can't be edited
    LTK was shown on Sunday at 3.40.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    A great film for Mothers day ! :))
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