Then and Now; This Week - Spectre

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Comments

  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited November 2015 Posts: 4,116
    You can debate Dalton's performance but most of the rest of the cast was horrible in my opinion.

    I'm sorry that's one of my major gripes with this movie.
  • Posts: 4,325
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    It took me two viewings to get used to LTK. It took me two more to notice how much I really love it. With Q's involvement as my only 'beef', I'd say LTK is a success for me. And seeing how much the grittier Bond is nowadays celebrated while back then that grittier Bond was met with unjustified criticism, I'm even more respectful of LTK.

    Then -
    Now - 5
    Tie 1

    Yeah I didn't get the unjustified criticism to LTK, made me go in with low expectations though tha were blown away :)
  • Posts: 3,336
    Then -
    Now - 7
    Tie - 1
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    You can debate Dalton's performance but most of the rest of the cast was horrible in my opinion.

    I'm sorry that's one of my major gripes with this movie.

    Don't be sorry, if that's your opinion it stands. Merely accept if I disagree almost entirely. My only near agreement is with Carey Lowell- she had moments where she seemed a bit out of her league... but she was so gorgeous I let that slide. :))
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    chrisisall wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    You can debate Dalton's performance but most of the rest of the cast was horrible in my opinion.

    I'm sorry that's one of my major gripes with this movie.

    Don't be sorry, if that's your opinion it stands. Merely accept if I disagree almost entirely. My only near agreement is with Carey Lowell- she had moments where she seemed a bit out of her league... but she was so gorgeous I let that slide. :))

    Lol ok we can agree on Lowell. Never tire of her exiting a plane. :P
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    You can debate Dalton's performance but most of the rest of the cast was horrible in my opinion.

    I'm sorry that's one of my major gripes with this movie.

    Don't be sorry, if that's your opinion it stands. Merely accept if I disagree almost entirely. My only near agreement is with Carey Lowell- she had moments where she seemed a bit out of her league... but she was so gorgeous I let that slide. :))

    Lol ok we can agree on Lowell. Never tire of her exiting a plane. :P
    Oh, her attire lent itself to incredible stretches of sexual imaginings...
    :))
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Lol ...yeaaa =P~
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited November 2015 Posts: 7,314
    I first saw Licence To Kill in the summer of 1989 when I was ten years old. I left the theater not quite knowing what to think. Well, after all these years, I now realize that was because I was in denial. It was difficult to admit to myself that I didn't like the movie. Eventually, I learned to accept it. Then came the six year gap and I started to develop a resentment towards the film and (unfortunately) even towards Dalton himself. It was as if LTK had single-handedly destroyed the entire franchise.

    Obviously, I now understand that interest in the series had gradually been decreasing during the 1980's. I don't hold a grudge against Dalton anymore but I'm sad to say that I still don't like this movie. Believe me, I've tried. I would love to love this film. After 26 years I've just come to accept that this one isn't for me. I feel like an outsider when I hear all of you singing it's praises. It's underwhelming to me on just about every level. Unlike many others who grew to enjoy it, I still consider this to be a low point in the series.

    LTK definitely has it's moments. I certainly appreciate the effort put forth by Dalton and Davi, respectively. However, not unlike Moore and Lee in TMWTGG, it isn't enough to stop the ship from sinking. The less said about the supporting cast, (excluding Del Toro) the better. Everything feels cheap and uninspired. The filmmakers wanted to take us on some dark journey but it appears they got cold feet because all of the traditional elements they threw in are quite jarring. I actually enjoyed the Q segments back then but now I find them completely out of place.

    What was the point of Bond resigning if he was just going to be welcomed back with open arms and without any consequences? That ending always leaves me exasperated. In retrospect, he should have just rode off with Pam into the sunset. Considering that this would be the last Bond film for six years, it would have made sense to leave things open-ended. It was too soon to have Dalton's Bond go off the deep end like this. Also, this was the absolute worst film they could have made prior to the hiatus. It really did damage the image of the franchise at the time.

    I hope that you can appreciate an alternative viewpoint. This one certainly has been an opinion divider throughout the years. My thoughts are pretty well solidified at this point. Even though I wasn't crazy about it at the time, LTK hasn't aged well at all for me. This is definitely going to be a THEN for yours truly.

    Then - 1
    Now - 7
    Tie - 1
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    You can debate Dalton's performance but most of the rest of the cast was horrible in my opinion.

    I'm sorry that's one of my major gripes with this movie.

    Don't be sorry, if that's your opinion it stands. Merely accept if I disagree almost entirely. My only near agreement is with Carey Lowell- she had moments where she seemed a bit out of her league... but she was so gorgeous I let that slide. :))

    Lol ok we can agree on Lowell. Never tire of her exiting a plane. :P

    Or slipping back into the water when on the Wavecrest with Bond >:)
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Licence To Kill - I've said it before but, at times it comes across as any other generic action flick; in my opinion anyway. However, I do enjoy it more now than I did when I first watched it.

    Then - 1
    Now - 8
    Tie - 1
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    edited November 2015 Posts: 1,731
    THEN

    First saw this on VHS in the mid 90's. Suffice to say I wasn't impressed. The low-budget look, relatively mundane locations (except for The Keys) and lack of classic Bond tropes didn't sit well with me as a teenager. Also it was just too 'American', with all those U.S C-listers in the cast. Even though I remember enjoying the stunts I just didn't feel any affection for LTK when I was a 'kid', and I was too young to appreciate Dalton's interpretation...

    NOW

    A lot has changed since then. Yes, the lousy American casting still bothers me & some parts look painfully cheap, but Dalton absolutely nails the part imo.
    I have grown to love his interpretation of Bond here - he is utterly believable and builds on the 007 persona he introduced in TLD. John Glen is at his best when crafting the action sequences and he outdoes himself with the PTS stunt & the Wavecrest set pieces, they are two of the best in the entire series.

    LTK is the kind of Bond film you only grow to like once you look past the popular expectations of the Bond franchise. It laid the foundations for the CR reboot, and it’s clear that we actually went BACKWARDS with GE et al, six years after Cubby and Dalton made a valiant effort to take James Bond forwards, away from the parody it had become.
    Here we have a 007 who both feels and THINKS. Dalton introduced an intelligent, calculating operator, and his Bond is still the benchmark that DC should aim for.

    This film is both overlooked and underappreciated.



    Then - 1
    Now - 9
    Tie - 1
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited November 2015 Posts: 7,120
    While I always thought of LTK as a solid Bond film, now it's one of my absolute favourites. I'd say Dalton's performance here is possibly the best piece of acting we've seen from any Bond actor.

    My favourite mission is TB, but LTK is my favourite non traditional Bond film.

    Then - 1
    Now - 10
    Tie - 1
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    As it is one of the films I didn't much care for as a youngster, I got renewed interest when I was buying all the films on DVD. The highlights were considerably higher this time around. There was some proper spying and tension indeed. Still, behind every Dario there was a bland Pam. By god why do people like her so much? And then Talisa is dissed for 'not beeing a good enough actor'as she is 'annoying', whilst that indeed is just her character! There are enough good looking girls trying to find a husband the way she does.
    And she's far better looking too.
    But behind every Davi there's a Robert Brown.

    Anyway, it's a mix that ends up slightly positive.

    Then - 1
    Now - 11
    Tie - 1
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Splendid chaps!
  • Posts: 11,425
    pachazo wrote: »
    I first saw Licence To Kill in the summer of 1989 when I was ten years old. I left the theater not quite knowing what to think. Well, after all these years, I now realize that was because I was in denial. It was difficult to admit to myself that I didn't like the movie. Eventually, I learned to accept it. Then came the six year gap and I started to develop a resentment towards the film and (unfortunately) even towards Dalton himself. It was as if LTK had single-handedly destroyed the entire franchise.

    Obviously, I now understand that interest in the series had gradually been decreasing during the 1980's. I don't hold a grudge against Dalton anymore but I'm sad to say that I still don't like this movie. Believe me, I've tried. I would love to love this film. After 26 years I've just come to accept that this one isn't for me. I feel like an outsider when I hear all of you singing it's praises. It's underwhelming to me on just about every level. Unlike many others who grew to enjoy it, I still consider this to be a low point in the series.

    LTK definitely has it's moments. I certainly appreciate the effort put forth by Dalton and Davi, respectively. However, not unlike Moore and Lee in TMWTGG, it isn't enough to stop the ship from sinking. The less said about the supporting cast, (excluding Del Toro) the better. Everything feels cheap and uninspired. The filmmakers wanted to take us on some dark journey but it appears they got cold feet because all of the traditional elements they threw in are quite jarring. I actually enjoyed the Q segments back then but now I find them completely out of place.

    What was the point of Bond resigning if he was just going to be welcomed back with open arms and without any consequences? That ending always leaves me exasperated. In retrospect, he should have just rode off with Pam into the sunset. Considering that this would be the last Bond film for six years, it would have made sense to leave things open-ended. It was too soon to have Dalton's Bond go off the deep end like this. Also, this was the absolute worst film they could have made prior to the hiatus. It really did damage the image of the franchise at the time.

    I hope that you can appreciate an alternative viewpoint. This one certainly has been an opinion divider throughout the years. My thoughts are pretty well solidified at this point. Even though I wasn't crazy about it at the time, LTK hasn't aged well at all for me. This is definitely going to be a THEN for yours truly.

    Then - 1
    Now - 7
    Tie - 1

    Totally respect this point of view. There have been times when I've felt similarly. It's a divisive movie. Even though I'm a big Dalton fan I do think there's a bit of a tendency to overhype LTK on here.

    I just think on balance, there is more to like than dislike. The film has definitley grown on me over the years.

    I think different/better locations and perhaps a stronger supporting cast might have elevated things a bit. I always felt that despite looking fantastic the two Bond girls are really not all that great - but then this was the era of Stacy whatshername from AVTAK, so in that context they're actually not so bad.

    It's a mid table entry for me. Better than all the Brosnans and perhaps more watchable than a few of Rog's weaker entries, but probably not the masterpiece that some make it out to be.
  • Posts: 7,418
    Pachazo, they didn't know there were going to be in the middle of a big lawsuit at that time. They were prepping Daltons third Bond movie, when suddenly this happened. And they certainly didn't realise that it was going to drag on for so many years!
    Regarding LTK, I saw it in the cinema in a blazing hot Summer of 89! (My local cinema was advertising it as "Stay cool with the latest James Bond blockbuster!) I loved it then, and still love it now. It holds up for viewing far more than some of the Bond movies. Has a great story, well told, with cracking action sequences, the finale is one of the best in the entire series. Robert Davi was a great villain, Carey Lowell was sexy as hell, Benicio Del Toro a chilling henchman, and it has a great theme song from Gladys Knight (if not a great score from Michael Kamen, its only weakness) Dalton is compelling, and showed layers of Bond never seen before.
    Then- 1
    Now-11
    Tie-2
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Getafix wrote: »
    The film has definitley grown on me over the years.
    That certainly seems to be the case for many Bond fans. Just look at how many "Now" votes we have in this thread. I'll bet it's our biggest winner so far.


    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Pachazo, they didn't know there were going to be in the middle of a big lawsuit at that time. They were prepping Daltons third Bond movie, when suddenly this happened. And they certainly didn't realise that it was going to drag on for so many years!
    Oh yes, I know. It really was a bad break for Dalton. I think that the disappointment of LTK (for many filmgoers at the time, I'm happy to see that you enjoyed it) coupled with the long hiatus created a lot of negative feelings towards Dalton. If he had done at least one more then it might have changed everything as far as his reputation was concerned.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    I forget how divisive of a movie LTK is. I tend to forget about LTK, with the all the modern films proving to be contumacious. On here at least. ;)
  • Thunderball007Thunderball007 United States
    edited December 2015 Posts: 306
    Licence to Kill, then and now. 10/10!

    Love this film!!! It's the hardest, rawest Bond! Timothy Dalton is flawless!

    One of my favorites in the series!!!
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Any more peeps?
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    On to....

    GoldenEye

    Then –
    Ah, GoldenEye! Most people of my generation got into the Bond films after playing GoldenEye on the N64. But I watched the movie first, and then played the game. After GoldenEye was released on video, me and my mate always used to watch it every time I went round his place. A top ten Bond film. It was my friend's favourite Bond film, so maybe I was put off by this. Who wants to be a sheep? So maybe that explains my recalcitrance to fully embrace GoldenEye.

    Now –
    My estimation of GoldenEye's virtues have diminished somewhat. Still a worthy effort.

    Then - 1
    Now -
    Tie -
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,179
    Goldeneye

    Oh this movie rocked when I first saw it at age 13 and still rocks today. Huge GE fan! Probably my favourite Bond film.

    Then - 1
    Now - 1
    Tie -1
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited December 2015 Posts: 1,984
    GoldenEye was the first Bond I watched, so it's obviously a Then for me. It excelled in every aspect and had me hooked onto the franchise. It was my favorite Bond film for a while too, but it's been falling since I've watched other classics (From Russia With Love, The Spy Who Loved Me, etc.)

    Then - 2
    Now - 1
    Tie -1
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2015 Posts: 15,716
    Goldeneye

    Loved it the first time I saw it (my first ever Bond movie), and still get a blast when viewing it today.

    Then - 2
    Now - 1
    Tie - 2
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Thanks @Birdleson!
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,588
    Ahh GoldenEye, the one that started it all for me.

    Then- Back in 1999 I had been playing the game for about a year or so. I saw a preview one night that it would be broadcasted in two night on nbc. I watched it and fell in love with it before the PTS had even ended. I went out and bought it on VHS and sat on top of my rankings ever since. It was the first one I watched and about a week later TBD ran a 15 days of 007 special and the rest is history.

    Now- It doesn't hold as much weight, especially after the Craig films were released. Not as fun as I remembered and rarely is it watched.

    Then - 3
    Now -1
    Tie -2
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423

    Now- It doesn't hold as much weight, especially after the Craig films were released. Not as fun as I remembered and rarely is it watched.

    Then - 3
    Now -1
    Tie -2

    I hate to admit it but your right. As much as I love the Broz, his films are rather juvenile and, God I hate this term, lightweight. Fancy me bashing the Brosnan era. For shame.
  • Posts: 7,418
    I was devastated when I found out Dalton was not going to return, and I knew Brossa was going to be offered the role again, but I was hoping it wasnt going to be so soon!
    THEN- I'm still a huge James Bond fan, so of course I was dying to see 007 back on the big screen. A very partisan crowd at my first viewing helped. But Brosnan? No, I thought he was awful in the role. Wooden as hell, bland, insipid, boring...etc. The famous scene between him and Judi Dench, "You don't like me, Bond.." fell completely flat, as Brosnan sat there (was he even in the same room as Dench??) motionless! His reading of the " Bond..James Bond!" line was so laboured, I expected Famke Janssen to reply " No youre not...youre that bloke off that crappy TV series Remington Steele!
    Sean Beans irritating plummy English accent, the awful Eric Serra score, (and who sanctioned that terrible theme at the end?) the whole film also looked rather cheap
    Positives/ Daniel Kleinmans terrific titles, Isabella Scorupco drop dead gorgeous, wasted on Brossa. The shootout just before the over-rated tank chase! That's it'
    NOW- it has dated very badly. Looks very old fashioned, considering it was supposed to bring Bond into modern times. The things I like about it first time strain to be still liked.
    TWINE is only marginally better, but its still very weak entry in the series. Martin Campbell had far better actors and material to work on CR!
    Then-4
    Now-1
    Tie-2
  • Posts: 3,336
    Then-4
    Now-1
    Tie-3
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Goldeneye

    Then
    I cannot explain the anticipation I had for this film. At the time, I did not like LTK (although I love it now) and so was anxious for Brosnan to take on the role. I felt at the time that he had been robbed of it in 1986. The fabulous teaser trailer ("You were expecting someone else") got me super hyped for this film, and I wanted Bond to return and show the pretenders (including Harry Tasker) how it should be done. I remember the night I watched the film for the first time like it was yesterday.

    It remains, to this day, along with CR, one of the top 5 movie going experiences of my life. Everything about it felt fresh that night, including the score (yes, I loved it), the superb supporting cast, the plot, the action (including the excellent visceral final fight) and the leading lady. Moreover, it had a great finale in a big lair like set....which at the time was a nice throw back to Ken Adam. Magnificent experience. I remember noting even then that Brosnan seemed a little unsure (more than I expected) and that his performance was a little affected, but nevertheless, it worked for the film and the film itself blew me away.

    Now
    A little of the lustre has come off no doubt, because, with the (relatively) low budget, some of the effects have dated. It does also look a little cheap in places compared to what's come since. However, it still remains one of my top five 'fun' go to James Bond films and I still have the highest regard for it. The supporting performances remain 'off the chart' for me and it's still as entertaining as ever.....and even a little retro, due to the cold war references.

    It's a tie.

    Then - 4
    Now - 1
    Tie - 4
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