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I've never noticed that before...

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  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    edited February 16 Posts: 735
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    In the book Bond recognizes Campbell as a friend from "the service," whom he surmises was following a lead of his own. I see no reason think differently about the movie.

    PS Nobody would have called it MI6. I'm pretty sure it never comes up in the novels. What was its first utterance in the movies? Brosnan era? In OHMSS Fleming does refer to SIS [Secret Intelligence Services], a catchall for what was publicly known only later as MI5/6. Hence ... On Her Majesty's Secret Service

    You may have a point, well, whatever it is, the film clearly indicates it that he's a British agent too, like what I've said:
    Although, as it is, the film intended him to be working for MI6, but him working for Draco makes more sense, not even the MI6 was involved in the Piz Gloria attack.

    But yes, it's clear he's a British Agent, that's what the film was intended him to be.

    People liked to make speculations, and it's a bit interesting to consider things.

    Anyway, regarding MI6/SIS, that's what people generally called the British Intelligence in real life, most people were familiar with it being called MI6, not just in James Bond, but in real life as well, although SIS is the most appropriate way to call it, but MI6 is the first name of that institution (there's even MI5, but it's their Local Intelligence Security), it's easy to call it MI6, to make it specific.

    Sorry, you caught me before my edit above ... hence some discrepancies.

    Campbell in the book is working out of Station Zurich. In going up the mountain, in the movie, I just assumed he was trying to keep an eye on Bond. But, yes, I don't think it's ever really explained who he is .... I forget, does Bond go see M after the scene with the safe in the lawyer's office? If so, maybe it's a bit of a plot hole ...

    MI5 gets several mentions in the novels and at least once, in Moonraker, has Bond explain the difference with SIS. But SIS is almost always referred to as "the service" or "secret service".

    Any idea when MI6 first gets mentioned in the movies?
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited February 16 Posts: 3,787
    Feyador wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    In the book Bond recognizes Campbell as a friend from "the service," whom he surmises was following a lead of his own. I see no reason think differently about the movie.

    PS Nobody would have called it MI6. I'm pretty sure it never comes up in the novels. What was its first utterance in the movies? Brosnan era? In OHMSS Fleming does refer to SIS [Secret Intelligence Services], a catchall for what was publicly known only later as MI5/6. Hence ... On Her Majesty's Secret Service

    You may have a point, well, whatever it is, the film clearly indicates it that he's a British agent too, like what I've said:
    Although, as it is, the film intended him to be working for MI6, but him working for Draco makes more sense, not even the MI6 was involved in the Piz Gloria attack.

    But yes, it's clear he's a British Agent, that's what the film was intended him to be.

    People liked to make speculations, and it's a bit interesting to consider things.

    Anyway, regarding MI6/SIS, that's what people generally called the British Intelligence in real life, most people were familiar with it being called MI6, not just in James Bond, but in real life as well, although SIS is the most appropriate way to call it, but MI6 is the first name of that institution (there's even MI5, but it's their Local Intelligence Security), it's easy to call it MI6, to make it specific.

    Campbell in the book is working out of Station Zurich. In going up the mountain, in the movie, I just assumed he was trying to keep an eye on Bond. But, yes, I don't think it's ever really explained who he is .... I forget, does Bond go see M after the scene with the safe in the lawyer's office? If so, maybe it's a bit of a plot hole ...

    No, he hadn't seen M after the Gumbold scene, it's been a while since I've watched OHMSS, but I still remember the MI6 scenes in the film, no, he didn't see M, if my memory serves, after the Gumbold scene, Bond heads to the College of Arms to meet Sir Hillary Bray, that's how I remember it, at least.

    But one could assume that he works for British Intelligence, it's clear in there, since Bond met with M in his house to present the progress of his investigation towards Blofeld, so one may assume it could be it, that M may have trust Bond back into the mission, so they've sent a contact to help him.

    But again, it's Draco and Tracy who had drove Bond to Gumbold's office, and while he's in the Office, that's where Campbell appeared, so a possibility that he may also work for Draco.

    Or let's make this clear, given Draco's connections, maybe it's Draco's contact in British Intelligence, he's a British Agent, but at the same time, he had connections to Draco, maybe he's called by Draco to help Bond with his mission, but British Intelligence didn't know this, like he went AWOL for the mission.

    Or him being a Zurich Agent like in the book could also be applied here, since Bond went to Switzerland, that would be his contact, but with the aide of Draco, since he had lost touch with the British Intelligence, like M was reassured with Bond and his investigations but also let him do his own work, so he let Draco to work with him, after all, in the scene where he's arguing with M to save Tracy from Blofeld, M knows and he'd expected that someone's helping Bond other than the British Intel itself, but M didn't want to compromise the British Intelligence, he'd let Bond to be on his own again and attack Piz Gloria, we could safely say that the British Intelligence hadn't played a role in this.

    This makes the film all the more unique because this is where Bond worked without MI6/SIS on his side, in LTK, there's still Q, when in here, he's solely by himself and Draco.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited February 16 Posts: 1,711
    Well, when he goes to M's house, M is nit happy that Bond has continued work on Blofeld.

    But anyway, I'm sure he's meant to be with MI6 or whoever, as he's based on such a character from the book, but when they wrote the film, they didn't pay attention to everything they were doing and its a bit confused...
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 735
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    Well, when he goes to M's house, M is nit happy that Bond has continued work on Blofeld.

    But anyway, I'm sure he's meant to be with MI6 or whoever, as he's based on such a character from the book, but when they wrote the film, they didn't pay attention to everything they were doing and its a bit confused...
    When Lazenby says to Blofeld, "You realize he'll report on where I am," he doesn't mean to Draco, he means to M.

    And then shortly afterwards, having exposed Bond's "mission" (Blofeld's word), Blofeld refers to Campbell and Bond collectively as "you perverse British."

    True, it's never spelled out directly, I'm just not sure it need to be.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson
    Posts: 2,161
    I'm with you on this one @Feyador .
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited February 16 Posts: 1,644
    I hadn't referenced the scenes directly and the dialogue does seem to determine it, but it is a little sloppy on the filmmaker's part that the visual memory of the story may not align with the dialogue and actual events. Also sorry for bothering @mtm but it was a very interesting prospect to consider for a few days, regardless of whatever is right.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    Feyador wrote: »
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    Well, when he goes to M's house, M is nit happy that Bond has continued work on Blofeld.

    But anyway, I'm sure he's meant to be with MI6 or whoever, as he's based on such a character from the book, but when they wrote the film, they didn't pay attention to everything they were doing and its a bit confused...
    When Lazenby says to Blofeld, "You realize he'll report on where I am," he doesn't mean to Draco, he means to M.

    And then shortly afterwards, having exposed Bond's "mission" (Blofeld's word), Blofeld refers to Campbell and Bond collectively as "you perverse British."

    True, it's never spelled out directly, I'm just not sure it need to be.

    Absolutely. I just think the bit where he helps out with Gumbold's safe is sloppiness on the part of the filmmakers. That's an original scene not from the novel, and they didn't consider that it wouldn't make a lot of sense for him to be involved with that.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    edited February 16 Posts: 735
    Just looking through the truly amazing Helfenstein book on the making of the film and he notes (p.112) that a scene was shot between Bond and Campbell, in which they make contact, but that it was cut from the final film. Unfortunately he doesn't say where in the narrative that scene would have fit.

    I'd guess before the office job and that things would have been clearer in that scene; but Hunt was under pressure to keep the running time down, and as Helfenstein notes elsewhere in the book it was a close run thing that further cuts were not made.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,787
    Feyador wrote: »
    Just looking through the truly amazing Helfenstein book on the making of the film and he notes (p.112) that a scene was shot between Bond and Campbell, in which they make contact, but that it was cut from the final film. Unfortunately he doesn't say where in the narrative that scene would have fit.

    I'd guess before the office job and that things would have been clearer in that scene; but Hunt was under pressure to keep the running time down, and as Helfenstein notes elsewhere in the book it was a close run thing that further cuts were not made.

    That's interesting, I guess that cut video should've been included.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,418
    Feyador wrote: »
    In the book Bond recognizes Campbell as an ex-navy friend from "the service," whom he surmises was following a lead of his own. I see no reason to think differently about the movie, except Campbell must have been assigned to him before the safe job. Anyway, "Campbell" doesn't strike me at all as Corsican Mafia (notoriously clan oriented) ....

    PS MI6 never comes up in the novels. What was its first utterance in the movies? Brosnan era? In OHMSS Fleming does refer directly to "SIS" [Secret Intelligence Service], a much used catchall (in the press, for instance) for what was, I think, publicly known only later as MI6.

    Hence ... On Her Majesty's Secret [Intelligence] Service

    Great question theres a weirdly dubbed line in DN where M states that injury rates since hes taken over Mi5 have dropped. He clearly doesn't say Mi6. Not sure when Mi6 is first mentioned.

  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    edited February 17 Posts: 735
    Interesting ... it sounds distinctly to me like he says "Mi7," and that's is how it's transcribed in the automated captions. And it does sound/look imperfectly dubbed in, as if replacing what had been previously recorded. But Mi7 is just contextually incorrect. Probably Bernard Lee had originally said Mi6 but it was removed for ... I don't know, strictly legal reasons, I'd guess. There was weirdly some kind of legal proscription against its very utterance in the media of the day that wasn't dropped until the late 1980s, I think.

    In Moonraker, the novel, Bond says he's had to get a special dispensation from the Prime Minister in order to work in England, "for just this one assignment". That's necessary because he's "secret service," he says, and as such his "jurisdiction runs only outside the United Kingdom." Then he wonders if the job isn’t more appropriate for Special Branch, Scotland Yard or Mi5. Fleming literally never mentions Mi6, as far as I can tell.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited February 18 Posts: 4,483
    I wasn't aware of the "MI6-absence" in the novels and in the earlier films. Interesting!
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    All the Moore films have a character ending in the letter A, except for Moonraker.

    kanagA
    ScaramangA
    KalbA
    FerrarA
    GobindA
    PolanovA


  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,269
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    All the Moore films have a character ending in the letter A, except for Moonraker.

    kanagA
    ScaramangA
    KalbA
    FerrarA
    GobindA
    PolanovA


    Unless, that is, you count Cha for Chang. ;)
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    All the Moore films have a character ending in the letter A, except for Moonraker.

    kanagA
    ScaramangA
    KalbA
    FerrarA
    GobindA
    PolanovA


    Unless, that is, you count Cha for Chang. ;)

    Or Samba
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    edited February 18 Posts: 5,418
    There's Anya from Spy too!

    EDIT just realized you meant last names! LOL! Oh but then Amasova counts too! LOL!

    Interesting trivia @Mendes4Lyfe
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,269
    There's also Chula in TMWTGG.
  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    Posts: 2,264
    Watching Die Another Day as part of the yearly marathon. Still in the beginning of the movie, but after MI6 trades Zao for Bond, there’s a scene where a doctor (offscreen) reads some report about his overall condition, and he mentions that Bond’s liver “isn’t looking too good.” Is this the only time a Bond film goes into the implications of how Bond’s alcoholism affects his overall physical health?
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,418
    In the official series yes. Course NSNA did a bit on the health of Bond with M ordering him to reduce his "free radicals". I believe Bond says he will give up bread when first confronted.

    One thing I have heard criticism of TB is that they don't talk about why Bond is at Shrublands. One might draw the conclusion that he's only there due to the fight with SPECTRE 6 since Pat makes a big deal of the bruise. In the novel, Fleming writes about why he's at Shrublands in greater detail.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,133
    007ClassicBondFan wrote: »
    Watching Die Another Day as part of the yearly marathon. Still in the beginning of the movie, but after MI6 trades Zao for Bond, there’s a scene where a doctor (offscreen) reads some report about his overall condition, and he mentions that Bond’s liver “isn’t looking too good.” Is this the only time a Bond film goes into the implications of how Bond’s alcoholism affects his overall physical health?

    I think Silva in SF mentions a bit about Bond's various excess consumption of alcohol and substance abuse?
  • DEKE_RIVERSDEKE_RIVERS
    Posts: 1,332
    thedove wrote: »
    In the official series yes. Course NSNA did a bit on the health of Bond with M ordering him to reduce his "free radicals". I believe Bond says he will give up bread when first confronted.

    One thing I have heard criticism of TB is that they don't talk about why Bond is at Shrublands. One might draw the conclusion that he's only there due to the fight with SPECTRE 6 since Pat makes a big deal of the bruise. In the novel, Fleming writes about why he's at Shrublands in greater detail.

    NSNA is very underrated.

    That's why we can't pretend that NSNA doesn't exist.

  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,418
    I never noticed how impractical M's office is in SF. A huge window out to the world makes no sense for the head of Mi6. Sure the glass could be bulletproof but for those with prying eyes it would provide them with clear access to view who she is sitting with.

    skyfall-m-office-k.jpg
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited April 22 Posts: 4,132
    thedove wrote: »
    I never noticed how impractical M's office is in SF. A huge window out to the world makes no sense for the head of Mi6. Sure the glass could be bulletproof but for those with prying eyes it would provide them with clear access to view who she is sitting with.

    skyfall-m-office-k.jpg

    Perhaps they were tinted windows?

    … well, that or it’s just a film I guess 😂 but I definitely see your point. Not sure if the real MI6 building has tinted windows (I think they’re bulletproof though).
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,644
    Pretty sure the scale would be wildly off.. in reality those windows are several people wide and several stories tall.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,367
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Pretty sure the scale would be wildly off.. in reality those windows are several people wide and several stories tall.

    I never spotted that, yes you're right, they don't match the exterior.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,568
    Only just noticed this, but that exact shattering glass effect from Q's sonic ring is repeated in the second scene. Same pattern overlaid - you can see the white spots are in the same position. Always thought a pane was broken for real, so I guess a bit of DAD CGI done right!

    53790117256_da6a268b58_b.jpg
    53789173657_f0c21eb1d1_b.jpg
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited June 15 Posts: 4,483
    Nice one @QBranch

    Something else: I never realised before that the approaching car in the GF car chase isn't a real car but the DB5 seen in a mirror. Am I the only one who didn't understand that bit??? A friend told me yesterday and I didn't believe until I checked it now.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 21 Posts: 16,367
    In NTTD, it's kind of well known that the shot of the DB5 entering Matera is a bit of a Texas switch, with a DB5 in the foreground exiting a tunnel, and then impossibly in the same shot we see it much further away entering the town; but I hadn't spotted before that in the establishing shot of the cemetery, we see Bond walking across the bridge from a distance, but then the camera pans across to the graves and he's suddenly much closer in the foreground walking past the camera! He can move faster than the Flash! :D

    Also, I'd not previously noticed Felix's cheesy Bond line: (after being shot in the stomach) "I've got a gut feeling Ash isn't on our side" - ha!
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,644
    goldenswissroyale wrote: »
    Nice one @QBranch

    Something else: I never realised before that the approaching car in the GF car chase isn't a real car but the DB5 seen in a mirror. Am I the only one who didn't understand that bit??? A friend told me yesterday and I didn't believe until I checked it now.

    I think that scene is the first time we see Oddjob smile... at the mirror. I remember it vividly, always have. Maybe you just blinked.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited July 14 Posts: 17,753
    Watching The Saint series 2 episode «Iris» earlier tonight, I couldn't help but notice that Simon Templar shares a similar taste to interior as James Bond.
    HNCt5zb.png
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    2XtBQX2.png
    CN6kKBo.png

    As mentioned in a previous post, these artworks can also be seen in the flat of another spy, Assignment K's Philip Scott.
    CdFzvx8.png
    wch2VGS.png
    MOcjTaU.png

    PS: This episode of The Saint is one of several to feature David "Mr. Slumber" Bauer.
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