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A Raoul Silva/SPECTRE connection, based on this.....?

Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
in SPECTRE Posts: 11,119
I know that the official emblem of the Austrian Air Force is this one:
2000px-Roundel_of_the_Austrian_Air_Force.svg.png
Austrian_Air_Force_Pilatus_PC-7_Lofting-1.jpg

And then we see the same emblem on Silva's helicopter in "Skyfall":
vi007-agustawestland-aw101-helicopter-skyfall.jpg?itok=XfQ8J4Nu
skychopper-thumb-510x211-55132.jpg

Could there be a connection between Silva's helicopter in "Skyfall" and the events in Austria in "SPECTRE"? It seems Silva must have gotten that helicopter from somewhere no? Austria perhaps....

Comments

  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    Far fetched but who knows. I always thought the black triangle on red was quite menacing. Don't know why.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    A good spot but I guess we will have to wait and see? :-?
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    I am very doubtful, because I don't think they'd plan SP that much in advance. Maybe they just thought the black triangle would look cool and kind of old fashioned, maybe it was a symbol they thought they'd use more and in the end only had it for the last showdown, maybe it was not even voluntary, just some symbol on the helicopters they rented.
  • mibmib
    Posts: 31
    the helicopter that Spectre used in Mexico has the same roundel

    15qx1eg.jpg
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    Isn't it a circle?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited August 2015 Posts: 14,586
    Good spot there, @mib. We can see the same emblem clearer in these pics:

    http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/467683910-aspects-of-helicopter-scene-during-the-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QXm+6muDHvD5hWOJqLsQV0zG3/02qHJRZZqw3eL/xr/5YdUur3QDp28LOZa3AfenUg==
    http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/468147708-stuntmen-perform-a-battle-hanging-from-a-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QbSXOYDR/Yy5/eEj73rIr57Z9gEabTo/fLIay1eg6fgkt6qGxA/dFazodmEIz5aZtw==
    http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/468147738-helicopter-flies-next-to-the-metropolitan-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QZn2ed3rJb6O7WM5c6DPkIMgxM9KgSgP3akD0+XGFVax42wPgFRL+5yNJ3z8KGS5Pw==
    http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/468147744-stuntmen-perform-a-battle-hanging-from-a-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QTyRBFJoYDnLQnozyB7DeqsayCHvrO/PyDQ6L3qAzD2PxIhPf1CibqJxEAj62yMZ+w==

    I cannot find any further source for this comment, but here it is claimed that the roundel (that's a new word for me!) was created specifically for Skyfall:

    "Interestingly, the helicopter used by the "bad guys" in "Skyfall" wears a fictional roundel on the typical RAF color scheme."

    http://theaviationist.com/2012/07/11/fia12-aw101/#.ULTO8ofBfEV

    Also, IMPDB says this:

    "Wearing a private livery, and operated by Silva's organization. Aircraft was provided by AgustaWestland, serial G-17-510."

    http://www.impdb.org/index.php?title=Skyfall
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    could be coincidental, could be the supplier using the same symbol. That said, it is not impossible 1)that Silva was a freelance subcontractor for Quantum and/or SPECTRE and 2)that he knew about them.
  • mibmib
    Posts: 31
    maybe Silva don't know Spectre...or don't really know Spectre ;)
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    I do think there's an important link:
    Looking at the villain's scheme of "SPECTRE", it seems Oberhauser is using Silva's hacking capabilities, but expands it in a much bigger way. It even has a lair now, where many people work behind PC's
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Turns out you were right.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Turns out you were right.

    @Gustav_Graves was rarely wrong.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    He was but I think the helicopters were just coincidence. That said, whatever one thinks of SP I always said it made more sense that Silva was acting at least to the organisation's knowledge and consent and that he was at least to a degree on their payroll.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited August 2018 Posts: 8,188
    I wasn't initially keen on having them connect, because I largely settled with the idea of SKYFALL being a standalone thing. However, I understand doing so means Blofeld at least partially had a hand in killing M, by funding a madman like Silva to do the dirty work. That at least gives Bond more an incentive to confront Blofeld, the man behind the curtain.

    Which makes the whole foster brother angle all the more unnecessary, as the film barely plays with that aspect anyway.

    EDIT: At least Silva wasn't explicitly funded by "Quantum", that stupid stupid name that should have never been a thing ever.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    The thing is it could have been dealt with in SPECTRE as Blofeld saying that he wasn't an operative of their's just someone he used as a tool to undermine MI6, it could have been used by a Blofeld with no connections to Bond's distant past to get under Bond's skin when they meet near the end of the film.

    Dench's M is more than hinted at as looking into Quantum with her tracing Sciarra to Mexico city. You could have had Sciarra there to take out Mr White who was on the run rather than blowing up half of the city with that daft CGI explosion.

    Bond would inadvertently foil Sciarra's hit on White, White would be seen in silhouette and he would see Bond realising he'd just saved his life. Then the PTS could go toward the helicopter sequence.

    Bond would obviously have to go rogue but with no relation to anything that was found at Skyfall and it would just be M's message that sent him, his loyalty to his late boss.

    Bond could then start to peel back the layers leading to what could have been centre piece of the film Bond finding White, White would wind up Bond with revealing he actually saved his life in a more extended sequence where White with nothing to loose would give Bond clues to the whole scheme of 9 eyes, Bond agreeing to protect his daugher and offering him an honourable route out would be his motivation. Bond would be seen to investigating.

    White most certainly wouldn't feel that the organisation had lost it's way or was doing things he was ashamed of, White should remain as cold, all that women and children business felt like a total betrayal the character we got introduced to in CR. It would be down to White exposing Quantum and Blofeld feeling he needed to get rid of him depsite the fact they were friends that formed Quantum. Blofeld would then dissolve Quantum secretly and have SPECTRE in the shadows unbeknown to White, although when he discovers the truth he tries to take out his old friend but ESB has infiltrated all elements and secretly changed them to SP leaving White with no one to turn to and seriously undermined.

    The brother relationship could still be explored but with White and ESB and how that relationship soured, Bond actually being the catalyst here as he discovered Quantum by capturing White in QOS.

    I know this might sound quite elaborate but surely scanning rings and Madeleline exposing the organisation and Q rather nifty graphics program he has to do the SPECTRE/Quantum family like Who Do You Think You Are, this is where the credibility well and truly went out the window and exposed P&W awful last minute joining the dots to be the work of total amatuers.

    Better talents in this department could flesh this out but the point of the original thread poses that Silva isn't part of the organisation just a button that ESB pushes as Dench's M is getting too close depsite being told to back out of investigation from up high, possibly Guy Haines is still pulling the strings being a high operative. Haines could have featured in SPECTRE as well, if you really wanted to try and tie things together with some credibilty and I'm using elements that are already there.

    Silva is financially backed and assisted as it suits Blofeld's purposes, ESB could even have said to Bond when they meet that he was just a thug he used to take out Dench's M.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Shardlake wrote: »
    The thing is it could have been dealt with in SPECTRE as Blofeld saying that he wasn't an operative of their's just someone he used as a tool to undermine MI6, it could have been used by a Blofeld with no connections to Bond's distant past to get under Bond's skin when they meet near the end of the film.

    Dench's M is more than hinted at as looking into Quantum with her tracing Sciarra to Mexico city. You could have had Sciarra there to take out Mr White who was on the run rather than blowing up half of the city with that daft CGI explosion.

    Bond would inadvertently foil Sciarra's hit on White, White would be seen in silhouette and he would see Bond realising he'd just saved his life. Then the PTS could go toward the helicopter sequence.

    Bond would obviously have to go rogue but with no relation to anything that was found at Skyfall and it would just be M's message that sent him, his loyalty to his late boss.

    Bond could then start to peel back the layers leading to what could have been centre piece of the film Bond finding White, White would wind up Bond with revealing he actually saved his life in a more extended sequence where White with nothing to loose would give Bond clues to the whole scheme of 9 eyes, Bond agreeing to protect his daugher and offering him an honourable route out would be his motivation. Bond would be seen to investigating.

    White most certainly wouldn't feel that the organisation had lost it's way or was doing things he was ashamed of, White should remain as cold, all that women and children business felt like a total betrayal the character we got introduced to in CR. It would be down to White exposing Quantum and Blofeld feeling he needed to get rid of him depsite the fact they were friends that formed Quantum. Blofeld would then dissolve Quantum secretly and have SPECTRE in the shadows unbeknown to White, although when he discovers the truth he tries to take out his old friend but ESB has infiltrated all elements and secretly changed them to SP leaving White with no one to turn to and seriously undermined.

    The brother relationship could still be explored but with White and ESB and how that relationship soured, Bond actually being the catalyst here as he discovered Quantum by capturing White in QOS.

    I know this might sound quite elaborate but surely scanning rings and Madeleline exposing the organisation and Q rather nifty graphics program he has to do the SPECTRE/Quantum family like Who Do You Think You Are, this is where the credibility well and truly went out the window and exposed P&W awful last minute joining the dots to be the work of total amatuers.

    Better talents in this department could flesh this out but the point of the original thread poses that Silva isn't part of the organisation just a button that ESB pushes as Dench's M is getting too close depsite being told to back out of investigation from up high, possibly Guy Haines is still pulling the strings being a high operative. Haines could have featured in SPECTRE as well, if you really wanted to try and tie things together with some credibilty and I'm using elements that are already there.

    Silva is financially backed and assisted as it suits Blofeld's purposes, ESB could even have said to Bond when they meet that he was just a thug he used to take out Dench's M.

    Much better than what we got.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    edited August 2018 Posts: 3,157
    White should have been the main villain of the movie. Imagine Bond trying to reach this mysterious, shady figure who goes by the name "The Pale King" and is behind this organization, only to find out it's an old nemesis of his. You'd get the feeling White truly is everywhere and unstoppable, and would serve as a great threat to Bond.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Walecs wrote: »
    White should have been the main villain of the movie. Imagine Bond trying to get to this mysterious, shady figure who goes by the name "The Pale King" and is behind this organization, only to find out it's an old nemesis of his. You'd get the feeling White truly is everywhere and unstoppable, and would serve as a great threat to Bond.

    Yes, agree 100%

  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    peter wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    White should have been the main villain of the movie. Imagine Bond trying to get to this mysterious, shady figure who goes by the name "The Pale King" and is behind this organization, only to find out it's an old nemesis of his. You'd get the feeling White truly is everywhere and unstoppable, and would serve as a great threat to Bond.

    Yes, agree 100%

    I think if you were ignoring using Blofeld angle that I was approaching this would work great.

    White is one of the most intriguing and interesting characters of the DC era

    My idea was focusing on taking existing ideas within the 4 films to reshape SPECTRE into something that didn't involve Brothergate and Blohauser.

    Although Mr White as the ultimate big bad seems like a real missed opportunity but EON wanted to capitilise on gaining the rights back to ESB and SPECTRE, so rather than build the idea up they just spunked it on one unholy mess of a film.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Shardlake wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    White should have been the main villain of the movie. Imagine Bond trying to get to this mysterious, shady figure who goes by the name "The Pale King" and is behind this organization, only to find out it's an old nemesis of his. You'd get the feeling White truly is everywhere and unstoppable, and would serve as a great threat to Bond.

    Yes, agree 100%

    I think if you were ignoring using Blofeld angle that I was approaching this would work great.

    White is one of the most intriguing and interesting characters of the DC era

    My idea was focusing on taking existing ideas within the 4 films to reshape SPECTRE into something that didn't involve Brothergate and Blohauser.

    Although Mr White as the ultimate big bad seems like a real missed opportunity but EON wanted to capitilise on gaining the rights back to ESB and SPECTRE, so rather than build the idea up they just spunked it on one unholy mess of a film.

    There's no reason why ESB couldn't have been Mr. White (and up until Sp, I always thought of him as exactly that type of character).

    They spunked on a messy script that had too many Chef's in the kitchen-- led by an unsure Sam Mendes who had too much wield over a story that was never working (no matter how hard he tried to have it personalized emotionally to Bond (as the Sony leaks made clear, it was Mendes, not Craig, who wanted a brother-gate-like connection from the beginning)), but terrible casting is also to blame.

    They had the perfect Blofeld in Jesper Christensen. The way he laughs in the face of M and Bond in QoS... He WAS Blofeld.

    Instead they cast Captain Obvious in the role and deny their own cheap-trick to everyone else.... Ugh- frustrating. But unlike some, I don't blame the lead actor for this. He did the best with what he got. And Sam then tried to make up for the rest with beautifully looking, yet static and boring, shots..

  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,637
    peter wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    White should have been the main villain of the movie. Imagine Bond trying to get to this mysterious, shady figure who goes by the name "The Pale King" and is behind this organization, only to find out it's an old nemesis of his. You'd get the feeling White truly is everywhere and unstoppable, and would serve as a great threat to Bond.

    Yes, agree 100%

    I think if you were ignoring using Blofeld angle that I was approaching this would work great.

    White is one of the most intriguing and interesting characters of the DC era

    My idea was focusing on taking existing ideas within the 4 films to reshape SPECTRE into something that didn't involve Brothergate and Blohauser.

    Although Mr White as the ultimate big bad seems like a real missed opportunity but EON wanted to capitilise on gaining the rights back to ESB and SPECTRE, so rather than build the idea up they just spunked it on one unholy mess of a film.

    There's no reason why ESB couldn't have been Mr. White (and up until Sp, I always thought of him as exactly that type of character).

    They spunked on a messy script that had too many Chef's in the kitchen-- led by an unsure Sam Mendes who had too much wield over a story that was never working (no matter how hard he tried to have it personalized emotionally to Bond (as the Sony leaks made clear, it was Mendes, not Craig, who wanted a brother-gate-like connection from the beginning)), but terrible casting is also to blame.

    They had the perfect Blofeld in Jesper Christensen. The way he laughs in the face of M and Bond in QoS... He WAS Blofeld.

    Instead they cast Captain Obvious in the role and deny their own cheap-trick to everyone else.... Ugh- frustrating. But unlike some, I don't blame the lead actor for this. He did the best with what he got. And Sam then tried to make up for the rest with beautifully looking, yet static and boring, shots..
    I do blame Daniel Craig because he wanted a Blofeld 100% different from Dr. Evil. He must not have seen Austin Powers all the way through, as Bond was parodying AP, which should never be done from the Bond crew's end.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Walecs wrote: »
    White should have been the main villain of the movie. Imagine Bond trying to get to this mysterious, shady figure who goes by the name "The Pale King" and is behind this organization, only to find out it's an old nemesis of his. You'd get the feeling White truly is everywhere and unstoppable, and would serve as a great threat to Bond.

    Yes, agree 100%

    I think if you were ignoring using Blofeld angle that I was approaching this would work great.

    White is one of the most intriguing and interesting characters of the DC era

    My idea was focusing on taking existing ideas within the 4 films to reshape SPECTRE into something that didn't involve Brothergate and Blohauser.

    Although Mr White as the ultimate big bad seems like a real missed opportunity but EON wanted to capitilise on gaining the rights back to ESB and SPECTRE, so rather than build the idea up they just spunked it on one unholy mess of a film.

    There's no reason why ESB couldn't have been Mr. White (and up until Sp, I always thought of him as exactly that type of character).

    They spunked on a messy script that had too many Chef's in the kitchen-- led by an unsure Sam Mendes who had too much wield over a story that was never working (no matter how hard he tried to have it personalized emotionally to Bond (as the Sony leaks made clear, it was Mendes, not Craig, who wanted a brother-gate-like connection from the beginning)), but terrible casting is also to blame.

    They had the perfect Blofeld in Jesper Christensen. The way he laughs in the face of M and Bond in QoS... He WAS Blofeld.

    Instead they cast Captain Obvious in the role and deny their own cheap-trick to everyone else.... Ugh- frustrating. But unlike some, I don't blame the lead actor for this. He did the best with what he got. And Sam then tried to make up for the rest with beautifully looking, yet static and boring, shots..
    I do blame Daniel Craig because he wanted a Blofeld 100% different from Dr. Evil. He must not have seen Austin Powers all the way through, as Bond was parodying AP, which should never be done from the Bond crew's end.

    When did Daniel Craig write this script? or any variation of it? If you study the Sony leaks, brother-gate was Mendes baby from the word go.

  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    edited August 2018 Posts: 1,534
    Just imagine. In SP, Bond still infiltrates the Spectre meeting and witnesses Hinx kill one member. Then we hear a familiar voice and see the shadowy silhouette. "Welcome James. It's been a long time. And finally here we are. What took you so long". We then see Mr. White, back and even more menacing than before. That would've been amazing.

    "Mr. White died nine years ago, James. The man you're talking to now, the man inside your head, is Ernst Stavro Blofeld".

    Also have Guy Haines back instead of Denbigh. Give him a different plot. Maybe he's just become the new Prime Minister.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Agreed. I wish that's how it went down. Better than Brofeld and his stupid daddy issues.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Remington wrote: »
    Just imagine. In SP, Bond still infiltrates the Spectre meeting and witnesses Hinx kill one member. Then we hear a familiar voice and see the shadowy silhouette. "Welcome James. It's been a long time. And finally here we are. What took you so long". We then see Mr. White, back and even more menacing than before. That would've been amazing.

    Mr. White and Jesper Christensen = Blofeld...... Yes @Remington I am so on board with what you're saying. Christensen established himself, off the bat, as menacing, in CR... And this tone grew when we see him laugh in the face of Mi6... it could have organically have grown off the charts with SP...

    Oh well. In my alternative reality, Christopher "Bonaparte" Waltz would not have been cast, and EoN would continue to stretch the character of Mr. White...
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    How about this? After the events of QOS (Green and Kabira confessing) leave Quantum crippled, Mr. White stages a hostile takeover and takes control of whats left. He ends up creating a new organization that is even more dangerous and since it is basically a ghost of Quantum, he names it Spectre. The only remaining Quantum members are him and Guy Haines, who basically takes C's part.

    Keep Silva out of the equation as that cheapens his character. Spare us the godawful retcon.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    That's pretty much how I envisioned Spectre coming to be long before it ever came out.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Murdock wrote: »
    That's pretty much how I envisioned Spectre coming to be long before it ever came out.

    I'm still stunned at how they manged to f**k it up.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,637
    We'll see some real casting rumors soon, fingers crossed for Mark Strong!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Remington wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    That's pretty much how I envisioned Spectre coming to be long before it ever came out.

    I'm still stunned at how they manged to f**k it up.

    Me too. It's a shame.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,637
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    We'll see some real casting rumors soon, fingers crossed for Mark Strong!
    Sorry wrong board!
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