Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 1,078
    talos7 wrote: »
    That of no consequence; just as Craig’s Bond had absolutely no linear connection to the previous actors and films, the next will begin a new incarnation of a fractional character.

    Is 'fractional character' a typo, or is it a new expression for a character that dies and comes back as the same character, in a different timeline?
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Lol, yes, “Fictional “
  • edited March 2022 Posts: 1,078
    A question for you then Talos, (or anyone?). Just a simple yes or no answer needed.

    Will the next cinematic James Bond be a different character to Craig's Bond?


  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    A question for you then Talos, (or anyone?). Just a simple yes or no answer needed.

    Will the next cinematic James Bond be a different character to Craig's Bond?


    Well seeing that Craig’s Bond was vaporized, yes.
  • edited March 2022 Posts: 1,078
    Thanks, Talos. I didn't expect a simple yes or no answer, to be honest.

    I saw your namesake in an exhibition in Edinburgh a few months ago, it was quite a treat!
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Thanks, Talos. I didn't expect a simple yes or no answer, to be honest.

    I saw your namesake in an exhibition in Edinburgh a few months ago, it was quite a treat!

    I went in October. Ray was a hero of my; it was an incredible exhibit.

  • Posts: 1,630
    talos7 wrote: »
    Over the last decade we have seen at least 4 Batman’s, , Bale, Affleck, Pattinson and a returning Keaton, all existing in their own universes Audiences have no problem accepting this. There will be no problem with a new adaptation of the literary character, James Bond.

    James Bond is a 'real world' character, not a superhero with special powers in a sci-fi franchise. This is the whole problem with the 'if it's good for Batman, it's good for Bond' argument. Bond isn't Batman, Star Trek, Star Wars or whatever. He used to be a real world hero in admittedly outlandish situations, but it was always grounded in recognised science and reliant on the conventional rules of accepted linear storytelling.

    Agreed, but I think the "as goes Batman, so might go Bond" concept is more about stylistic aspects. For example: light-hearted or moody and dark
  • Posts: 1,078
    Since62 wrote: »
    Agreed, but I think the "as goes Batman, so might go Bond" concept is more about stylistic aspects. For example: light-hearted or moody and dark

    Yea, fair enough.

    The Bond films have followed trends for many years, and I'm fine with that. But this killing off the hero trend, is a bit much for me. I'm against (what I see as) the narrative dishonesty of killing of a character, then asking the audience to accept another 'incarnation' of the same character. Or as Talos points out, asking people to accept a different character, with the same name.
    Even worse, in NTTD we had the death scene, the whole M's office and Maddy's requiem, only to be told 'he'll be back', for the people who stayed to the end of the credits.
    Yea, I know I'm daft for thinking that's all daft.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Huh?
  • Posts: 1,078
    echo wrote: »
    Huh?

    I know it's garbled, but if you read it slowly you can get the general gist of it.
  • Posts: 944
    A question for you then Talos, (or anyone?). Just a simple yes or no answer needed.

    Will the next cinematic James Bond be a different character to Craig's Bond?


    Yes, a modified version. Craig's Bond is an adaptation.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    The next James Bond will be the character of "James Bond"; it will just be a new incarnation/ adaptation of Ian Flemings literary character with no relation to any of the previous film adaptations.

    How many different versions of Sherlock Holmes have been presented without audience confusion: each was a new interpretation of Conan Doyle's creation.
  • edited March 2022 Posts: 1,078
    talos7 wrote: »
    The next James Bond will be the character of "James Bond"; it will just be a new incarnation/ adaptation of Ian Flemings literary character with no relation to any of the previous film adaptations.

    Aw Talos, you've spoilt it now. First you said it would be a different character, now you seem to be saying neither one thing or the other.

    Perhaps others could try to answer the question 'will the next James Bond actor play the same character as Daniel Craig' with a simple yes or no answer?
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited March 2022 Posts: 8,217
    I don't think cinematic Bond is really any more "real world" than Batman is, especially Nolan or Reeves' take. The only thing that separates them is that Gotham is indeed a fictional city, but that's a minor detail if we're talking about character and not setting. They're both heroes that go up against supervillains (that often have heightened or exaggerated physical traits) and defeat them using a combination of violence, smarts and gadgets.

    Bond drives cars with machine guns behind the headlights and ejector seats, after all.
    Perhaps others could try to answer the question 'will the next James Bond actor play the same character as Daniel Craig' with a simple yes or no answer?

    Yes. But it will be their James Bond. Just as it was Craig's, Brosnan's, Dalton's, Moore's, Lazenby's and Connery's. Don't people usually refer to the actor when referencing a specific period of the character? The actor takes on the mantle. It's still James Bond.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    talos7 wrote: »
    The next James Bond will be the character of "James Bond"; it will just be a new incarnation/ adaptation of Ian Flemings literary character with no relation to any of the previous film adaptations.

    Aw Talos, you've spoilt it now. First you said it would be a different character, now you seem to be saying neither one thing or the other.

    Perhaps others could try to answer the question 'will the next James Bond actor play the same character as Daniel Craig' with a simple yes or no answer?

    I find the wording of your question to be somewhat convoluted ; its like the old trick question, "answer yes or no, have you stopped beating your wife?

    Of course the next actor will play the character of James Bond but it will not the same Bond as Daniel Craig's . So in a sense the my answer to you question is yes and no. Lol
  • Posts: 1,078
    I don't think cinematic Bond is really any more "real world" than Batman is

    I'm no expert on Batman or any of the super-heroes, but you do surprise me saying that.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    talos7 wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    The next James Bond will be the character of "James Bond"; it will just be a new incarnation/ adaptation of Ian Flemings literary character with no relation to any of the previous film adaptations.

    Aw Talos, you've spoilt it now. First you said it would be a different character, now you seem to be saying neither one thing or the other.

    Perhaps others could try to answer the question 'will the next James Bond actor play the same character as Daniel Craig' with a simple yes or no answer?

    I find the wording of your question to be somewhat convoluted ; its like the old trick question, "answer yes or no, have you stopped beating your wife?

    Of course the next actor will play the character of James Bond but it will not the same Bond as Daniel Craig's . So in a sense the my answer to you question is yes and no. Lol

    That's very diplomatic. You'd have made a great politician, @talos7! ;)
  • Posts: 1,078
    talos7 wrote: »
    Of course the next actor will play the character of James Bond but it will not the same Bond as Daniel Craig's . So in a sense the my answer to you question is yes and no. Lol

    Crystal! Thanks!


  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Was there the possibility it would not be James Bond? Or that Daniel Craig could return?

    Those approach less than zero if I can say that.

  • Posts: 2,161
    Some snootiness up above. Keep it civil, please avoid even obliquely personal attacks.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    I don't think cinematic Bond is really any more "real world" than Batman is

    I'm no expert on Batman or any of the super-heroes, but you do surprise me saying that.

    I elaborated on it afterwards, though.
  • edited March 2022 Posts: 1,078
    I don't think cinematic Bond is really any more "real world" than Batman is

    I'm no expert on Batman or any of the super-heroes, but you do surprise me saying that.

    I elaborated on it afterwards, though.

    Yes, I read that. I suppose the batcave isn't too far removed from YOLT's volcano base. I can't help but think Batman belongs with comic superheros like Spiderman and Superman, and Bond belongs with more grounded spy thriller novels and spy films. But I can see the argument for 'superhero Bond' with the DB5 as the Bondmobile.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    I don't think cinematic Bond is really any more "real world" than Batman is

    I'm no expert on Batman or any of the super-heroes, but you do surprise me saying that.

    I elaborated on it afterwards, though.

    Yes, I read that. I suppose the batcave isn't too far removed from YOLT's volcano base. I can't help but think Batman belongs with comic superheros like Spiderman and Superman, and Bond belongs with more grounded spy thriller novels and spy films. But I can see the argument for 'superhero Bond' with the DB5 as the Bondmobile.

    Yeah, that's fair. I guess it helps, from my perspective, that I don't think of Batman as a superhero really - unless you consider being rich a superpower (I'm sure some do!).
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Wait, I am confused. I was told it was totally impossible and audiences wouldn't understand it if a new actor played an established character with a previously existing timeline, but the new interpretation is not connected to that timeline. I thought that was an absolute no go and now people are saying this Batman actually works and in fact is a better film for not spending 30 minutes of it's runtime explaining and exploring the various connections to previous versions played by other actors 30 years ago? And audiences are just fine with there being multiple different Batman-universes and are in no way confused by any of this? How can that be?

    Audiences would be less inclined to accept a new Batman if the previous Batman was killed on-screen.

    @slide_99 how do you know that? Are you in film distribution? Publicity? Producing? You say this statement as if you're an authority. What data have you compiled? And will you share, lol
  • edited March 2022 Posts: 2,161
    I don't think the average filmgoer cares about any of this much at all. They take the movie on its terms.

    Personally, I don't (didn't) want to see any Bond die on screen (forgiving CR '67). Too late now, can't go back.
  • Posts: 1,860
    Honestly, I think that the general audience will see that a new Bond film is coming out a few years from now and won't care what preceded it.
  • Posts: 328
    talos7 wrote: »
    The next James Bond will be the character of "James Bond"; it will just be a new incarnation/ adaptation of Ian Flemings literary character with no relation to any of the previous film adaptations.

    Aw Talos, you've spoilt it now. First you said it would be a different character, now you seem to be saying neither one thing or the other.

    Perhaps others could try to answer the question 'will the next James Bond actor play the same character as Daniel Craig' with a simple yes or no answer?

    It's the same character but different adaptation. Craig's version of Bond is dead. That adaptation chapter is now closed. Connery through to Brosnan's Bond is alive and is also an adaptation of a chapter that is closed. Bond number 7 will be playing the same character in a newly adapted chapter.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    I am happy we can have a civil discussion. There have been some really interesting points brought up already.

    One more aspect I would like to bring up: When I (we?) talk about the next Bond being a different "timeline" or "universe" I want to make it very clear that I don't mean that in a comic book/Marvel sense. They can never-ever-ever do any crossover or multiverse or anything like that (I'll ignore "the other fella" for now ^^). This whole timeline-business shall never be part of the story. It is totally external.
    I mean it more in a meta-sense that the previous films and the stories from the books haven't necessarily happened to any of the versions of the characters played by other actors (but some have!).
    In a way, I look at the various different Bonds as theatre plays based on folk tales or old plays. They all come from a similar place, they all look different because of the time they were made in and one "staging" doesn't necessarily have to have influence on and connect to all previous and latter stagings of similar or the same material. Like one production of f.e. Shakespeare's Henry V usually doesn't connect to previous productions of Richard II eventhough the one story connects to the other.
    So, I know that I am probably in the minority here, but I wouldn't mind them re-making some of the old films in a modern setting. I think it would be interesting to see, what a modern director would do with Goldfinger. Or how a new actor would approach the script of DAF or TMWTGG.

    To answer the question (and others have basically given the answer I subscribe to already): Yes, the next actor is playing the character of James Bond in the same way that Ralph Fiennes, Albert Finney, Ben Whishaw and Rory Kinnear (and a few others) have all played the character Hamlet.
  • edited March 2022 Posts: 1,078
    I've seen the Hamlet point bought up before, and it doesn't work for me. Hamlet is a singular stage play, and is constantly re-worked. The cinematic James Bond was always the same character in a long running series of films, and I'm not ashamed to say that's the way I liked it, despite the ridiculousness of him barely aging over 60 years. That was all accepted in the world of James Bond, and it worked for me fine.
    The 'multiverse Bond' idea could be seen as started in 2006 with CR, but it was neatly and very cooly bought back round to the 'real' cinematic Bond at the end of Skyfall. The guy standing in M's office could have been Connery in Dr No or Moore in Moonraker. It was all part of the same fun idea that James Bond is a singular character that despite his 'time travelling', is always the same person played by different actors.
    It's what they did at the end of NTTD that forces us to accept the whole idea of there being more than one James Bond. And that sits well with most here and good for you if you can accept it. I see it as rotten storytelling myself.
    My question about answering 'is it the same character' with a simple yes or no, was asked to highlight the absurdity of what they've done. No-one can answer the question with a yes or no. They have to add a caveat along the lines of 'it's a different incarnation' or whatever.
    So my point is, if there's no way to say definitely that it's the same character or not, then the people telling the story have done the traditional viewer a narrative diss-service by using an idea that is only acceptable in modern block-buster cinema. Killing someone off and bringing them back in the next installment wouldn't happen in any other real world serious series of films or books. But we have to accept of Bond because of, well . . . Batman!
  • edited March 2022 Posts: 328
    Maybe the answer you're looking for requires you to revise your question, because asking, 'is it the same chatacter'? I can 100% say the answer is yes. From Connery to Craig, they're all playing James Bond, agent 007, orphan son of Andrew and Monique.
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