Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 1,078
    mtm wrote: »
    That's not a reply to what I was saying, but okay:
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't really get why you're quoting me if you're not replying to what I said, but okay.

    Crikey, I keep getting this on-line conversation thing wrong, don't I?
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited June 2022 Posts: 693
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Why so hung up on Bond’s ethnicity?

    A question I've been asking the people who've been clamoring for Bond's ethnicity to be pointlessly changed for the past 20 years.

    I don't think anyone here has been clamoring for it. Indifferent would be a better description for the attitude.

    It's been mainly driven by journalists and media people. I remember back when they were pushing for Colin Salmon to take over the role after Brosnan was fired. Same with Elba. He never had popular support from the fanbase. Hell I don't think he's ever starred as the lead in a movie that didn't bomb. His popularity is completely contrived by online magazines- it doesn't actually translate to widespread appeal.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 4,139
    I don't know about the fans, but I know from talking with friends when the Idris Elba rumours started coming out that the idea of him as Bond was actually rather popular. Remember, Elba was in Luther which was well received, and was starring in films such as Beasts of No Nation, Star Trek etc. To be honest, even on these forums I don't get the sense people think he's a poor choice or wouldn't have been right for the role, just that he's too old to do so now. I've seen a few people, me included, say he should be the new M. The guy's well liked as an actor.

    I mean, if we're talking about black actors for Bond, look at a lot of the positive reactions to the suggestion that Sope Dirisu should be the next Bond. He's less controversial as a pick amongst a lot of people here than some of the white actors being suggested are.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    If Bond 26 is going to be a faithful period piece, then of course Bond should be white to reflect the time period, especially if you wanna lean onto the conceit of Bond longing for the British Empire.

    Now in the 2020s, being so far removed from Fleming’s lifetime and how much the world had changed. I’m not sure why it should be an issue to recast him as POC. It’s not like Bond being white is an inherently important part of his character. What does Bond being white say about his character that would get lost when recast with a POC? They could cast him with a black actor, and after that actor is done maybe cast another white actor. All depends on who’s available and suits it.

    And the whole “stick to Fleming” doesn’t really fly either because the Bond actors have never really matched Fleming Bond. We never once saw an actor with a scar down their cheek. Maybe hire an Indian decent actor and give him ALL the Fleming attributes such as the black comma and scar, so that the only difference is his skin color?
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    edited June 2022 Posts: 13,790
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Didn't Timothy say in an interview with Wogan, that he was asked if he'd be interested twice, but he says himself it's not the same as being made an offer

    Yeah I don't think I heard represented so far the element of Dalton being tied up with Brenda Starr and not able to do it. THEN Brosnan accepting but in the publicity generated his Remington Steele show was renewed and he was no longer available. By which time Dalton was avaliable.

    If I got that right.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Right. TLD was supposed to begin shooting at the time BRENDA STARR was still in production, which made it impossible for Dalton to take the role. But because Brosnan was held back by the NBC contract, that meant production on TLD had to be pushed back to make time for recasting. Thankfully, that opened a door for Dalton to take Bond and the rest is history.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2022 Posts: 16,383
    slide_99 wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Why so hung up on Bond’s ethnicity?

    A question I've been asking the people who've been clamoring for Bond's ethnicity to be pointlessly changed for the past 20 years.

    I don't think anyone here has been clamoring for it. Indifferent would be a better description for the attitude.

    It's been mainly driven by journalists and media people. I remember back when they were pushing for Colin Salmon to take over the role after Brosnan was fired. Same with Elba. He never had popular support from the fanbase. Hell I don't think he's ever starred as the lead in a movie that didn't bomb. His popularity is completely contrived by online magazines- it doesn't actually translate to widespread appeal.

    I think you're talking about specific actors being suggested rather than anyone 'clamoring for Bond's ethnicity to be pointlessly changed'- there's a difference between the two, as suggesting a particular actor is not a 'pointless' suggestion. And plenty of fans have thought both of those were good potential choices: personally I think Salmon would have been awful but Elba would have been pretty perfect, if you go into the thread about the next Bond you'll see plenty of other fans agreeing on that. Some don't, and that's the way of things. It's rather silly to try and pretend that it's all a fake story.
    As for movies that bombed, I'm not sure Brosnan was exactly an A list star when he was cast, and that turned out fine.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Brosnan was doing TV movies in the 90s and playing supporting bits like in MRS. DOUBTFIRE. Bond absolutely saved his career.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2022 Posts: 16,383
    Yeah, the Mike Graham movies and stuff like Live Wire was becoming a real low point, although to be fair to him he did start to show signs of a slight recovery with Doubtfire; his career might have improved slightly there without Bond. But with 007 he had a proper boost he'd have never got otherwise.
  • Posts: 16,162
    I love Live Wire! I actually like the TV movies Brosnan was making back then: Around the World in 80 Days, Detonator, Murder 101, Victim of Love, etc

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    "She's gonna blow!"
    Actually yelled by Brosnan in relation to a woman who was about to explode because her drink had been spiked with a magic potion that makes people into explosives :D
  • Posts: 16,162
    mtm wrote: »
    "She's gonna blow!"
    Actually yelled by Brosnan in relation to a woman who was about to explode because her drink had been spiked with a magic potion that makes people into explosives :D

    Haha! Great scene. Wonderful film for Brosnan-isms.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Didn't Timothy say in an interview with Wogan, that he was asked if he'd be interested twice, but he says himself it's not the same as being made an offer

    Yeah I don't think I heard represented so far the element of Dalton being tied up with Brenda Starr and not able to do it. THEN Brosnan accepting but in the publicity generated his Remington Steele show was renewed and he was no longer available. By which time Dalton was avaliable.

    If I got that right.

    Yeah that's way I've always seen it too mate.
    I think the confusion comes from EON trying to change the perception that Dalton was their "second choice"
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Honestly, it’s always hype and PR when they claim an actor was their first choice and/or THE ONLY actor who could pull it off. If Daniel Craig turned down the part, they would have gone to another actor and then say that actor was the only one who could have made CR work.

    The more likely truth is that Eon has a shortlist of actors they think would be great in the role, whether it’s for down the line or if something happens with their incumbent actor that forces them to recast. But I think that’s true of Hollywood in general.

    Look what happened after Edward Norton abruptly departed the MCU after one film, they brought in Mark Ruffalo and made a big show of how he was actually their first choice for The Hulk all along. That’s the kind of confidence they need to project not only to audiences but shareholders.

    I uploaded this video of Cubby really trying to sidestep the whole Brosnan thing by claiming they always wanted Dalton above all else. He’s obviously fudging the facts, but he kind of has to. No producer is ever going to actually be honest and say “we actually wanted someone else”.

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Yes, Cubby certainly used to keep an eye out for potential future Bonds - Adrian Paul was on his radar as early as '89, from a small role as a hitman in Last Rites. I'm sure BB takes similar note of likely candidates for future reference.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,208
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, Cubby certainly used to keep an eye out for potential future Bonds - Adrian Paul was on his radar as early as '89, from a small role as a hitman in Last Rites. I'm sure BB takes similar note of likely candidates for future reference.

    I can see why; like Cavill, what a shame he wasn’t a stronger actor

    pJXMWS2.jpg


  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    He also looked far too like Connery: you can't just get lookalikes in.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,208
    mtm wrote: »
    He also looked far too like Connery: you can't just get lookalikes in.

    I agree that someone should not be cast based alone on looks, particularly if they resemble a previous actor, but if Paul had the same acting chops as Craig, his general resemblance to Connery would not have been a problem.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 216
    I think Paul would have been fine in the day, to be honest. His work on Highlander shows he would have been serviceable enough and sold the action sequences. Arguably he was too associated with that role to take on Bond, and really, Brosnan was doing the job. Then, he was too old.
  • Posts: 16,162
    I never did see the potential in Adrian Paul for Bond, though many had tried to convince me otherwise.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, Cubby certainly used to keep an eye out for potential future Bonds - Adrian Paul was on his radar as early as '89, from a small role as a hitman in Last Rites. I'm sure BB takes similar note of likely candidates for future reference.

    Also worth noting that they sometimes see their Bond actors in films that you wouldn’t think to look for potential Bond actors.

    Cubby Broccoli noticed Sean Connery in Disney’s DARBY O’GILL AND THE LITTLE PEOPLE. Barbara Broccoli said she first noticed Daniel Craig in the film ELIZABETH.

    When Henry Cavill auditioned for Bond, he was only known in movies like THE COUNT OF MONTE CRISTO.

    EKmFQKDXsAAl3Jc.jpg


    Most of us fans only look or notice potential Bond actors when they’re playing Bond-like characters. Meanwhile Eon looks outside the box when it comes to seeking out their Bond.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    That reminds me of the one thing that always puts me off Cavill: his Freddie Mercury teeth :D
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited June 2022 Posts: 3,152
    Yes, if Adrian Paul had even 50% of Craig's acting ability, he'd've been a very strong candidate for a 'traditional' Bond. He looked 35 well into the 2010s, too, so age wouldn't've been an immediate red flag. It's true that Paul does vaguely resemble Connery sometimes, but Aidan Turner vaguely resembles Dalton at times - is that really a bad thing when it's an ongoing character?
  • Posts: 15,117
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, Cubby certainly used to keep an eye out for potential future Bonds - Adrian Paul was on his radar as early as '89, from a small role as a hitman in Last Rites. I'm sure BB takes similar note of likely candidates for future reference.

    Also worth noting that they sometimes see their Bond actors in films that you wouldn’t think to look for potential Bond actors.

    Cubby Broccoli noticed Sean Connery in Disney’s DARBY O’GILL AND THE LITTLE PEOPLE. Barbara Broccoli said she first noticed Daniel Craig in the film ELIZABETH.

    When Henry Cavill auditioned for Bond, he was only known in movies like THE COUNT OF MONTE CRISTO.

    EKmFQKDXsAAl3Jc.jpg


    Most of us fans only look or notice potential Bond actors when they’re playing Bond-like characters. Meanwhile Eon looks outside the box when it comes to seeking out their Bond.

    Gosh that Monte Cristo movie was bad.

    But anyway, I agree about thinking outside the box. That's why I suspect the next Bond will probably be found in a movie like Dunkirk: while the film itself is famous, the cast is made of many unknown and it's the kind of production that gets you noticed by professionals in the industry.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,208
    I don’t mind thinking outside of the box but I would hate to see them pass on a great choice because he’s “ obvious “ or classically Bond.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    talos7 wrote: »
    I don’t mind thinking outside of the box but I would hate to see them pass on a great choice because he’s “ obvious “ or classically Bond.

    Pierce Brosnan has made his whole career pre-Bond trying to prove to everyone “I could be Bond” about as subtle as someone jumping up and waving their hands up for attention. It worked out for him, even with bumps in the road.

    As long as they make a great choice, I don’t think it matters. There were plenty of vocal fans who made a stink about Craig because he wasn’t an obvious a choice back then.
  • Posts: 2,161
    talos7 wrote: »
    I don’t mind thinking outside of the box but I would hate to see them pass on a great choice because he’s “ obvious “ or classically Bond.

    I agree.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Birdleson wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    I don’t mind thinking outside of the box but I would hate to see them pass on a great choice because he’s “ obvious “ or classically Bond.

    I agree.

    And as always: These are mass entertainments, not niche products exclusively for us fans. So there's always something to the idea of saying to the public: "You've said you wanted this guy as Bond for years, well here he is!"
    Now, Cavill for Bond is hardly a public uprising, but by now I would say he has for a while been the most constantly associated name (give or take one Idris Elba). Top Gun: Maverick just showed us that sometimes just doing the most obviously entertaining thing can be a real hit.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 2,161
    I have no interest in seeing that Cavill in the role. None.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I have no interest in seeing that Cavill in the role. None.

    Tend to agree. After Craig, I rather like being surprised and impressed by an actor giving us his take. Cavill would give us exactly what we expect, and it'd be absolutely fine - but not exciting in any way.
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