Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,051
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    I also think most of the action scenes in NTTD aren't that memorable. Do fans really look forward to the Lab attack, Cuba sequence, Norway chase? Even some action in Safin's lair doesn't really stand out. Something like a massive flood or massive explosion/fire would have made it better. There's nothing apocalyptic like what the film thinks it was aiming for....even Bond's death.

    No, No and no, even the Matera scenes, I'm not looking forward into it.

    Maybe the Cuba scenes (but I thought the cinematography used there was too dark), but those all of the scenes involving Madeleine Swann, no I'm not looking forward into those, I'm now looking forward into forgetting them now.

    Haha! That's deep though. For me, the chilling Norway opening, Matera chase & the Bunker shootout are good and have rewatch value. If I'm to watch the rest of the film, it's simply to see more of Craig's Bond and hear Zimmer's score...when I'm not listening to it separately.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,636
    The somewhat less than memorable action sequences of the last (at least 2) movies might be a sign for EON. Hire a action director, who can also handle a bit of drama. These art house directors are going to burn out EON.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited February 2023 Posts: 2,051
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    The somewhat less than memorable action sequences of the last (at least 2) movies might be a sign for EON. Hire a action director, who can also handle a bit of drama. These art house directors are going to burn out EON.

    Exactly! We need to get back natural action directors fast! I can only imagine how good NTTD's action scenes would have been, if a natural action director directed them....Gosh!

    Some of the action in Safin's lair look like a poor copy of John Wick: Chapter Two Catacombs shootout.
  • Posts: 4,166
    Neither Mendes nor Fukunaga are ‘arthouse’ directors though. Both have not only worked in drama but other genres too (ie. war films, gangster etc). If anything both also broadly fit the criteria of being able to handle drama while also having a good handle on action (albeit in a more low key way). I do agree that the staircase sequence in NTTD was underwhelming, but I suspect even a director who specialises in action would have given us more or less something similar (it feels very much a ‘let’s do the thing from John Wick/Atomic Blonde’ type situation, and I’d argue even in those films the style undercuts the tension and it’s more about the spectacle).
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    I liked David's perspective on this.

  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited February 2023 Posts: 3,789
    007HallY wrote: »
    Neither Mendes nor Fukunaga are ‘arthouse’ directors though. Both have not only worked in drama but other genres too (ie. war films, gangster etc). If anything both also broadly fit the criteria of being able to handle drama while also having a good handle on action (albeit in a more low key way). I do agree that the staircase sequence in NTTD was underwhelming, but I suspect even a director who specialises in action would have given us more or less something similar (it feels very much a ‘let’s do the thing from John Wick/Atomic Blonde’ type situation, and I’d argue even in those films the style undercuts the tension and it’s more about the spectacle).

    True, the arthouse directors for me are different, they worked more on Indie (Independent) Films or sometimes in realistic dramas, the most obvious example would be Tory Kotsur (the director of CODA).

    If Coppola only directed The Godfather, he could be qualified as an Arthouse director, but he'd lost in that category when he did other genres.

    Fukunaga and Mendes aren't arthouse, they're only standard directors, Fukunaga is an unknown director, they're just on the same level as Rian Johnson, and just because of Knives Out and Glass Onion, would it make Rian Johnson an Arthouse director? No, that wouldn't make him an Arthouse director, it needs to be fixed in your specialty as a director, a certain level of style, he still did Star Wars.

    Came from the word itself, 'Art', there's a quality in every arthouse films, a realistic approach, somewhat surreal and bizarre in a realistic way, that conveys inner imaginations, think of Van Gogh if he became a director, it needs to be consistent and consistent in particular way or style.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,051
    Also, another thing EON needs to do is bring back satisfying action finales for Bond 7's era. SF was the last time, the finale was really satisfying....action-wise. Funnily enough, it's a Mendes' Bond film.
  • Also, another thing EON needs to do is bring back satisfying action finales for Bond 7's era. SF was the last time, the finale was really satisfying....action-wise. Funnily enough, it's a Mendes' Bond film.

    Ironically Mendes’s action wasn’t bad, it was the drama that was lacklustre.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,636
    Also, another thing EON needs to do is bring back satisfying action finales for Bond 7's era. SF was the last time, the finale was really satisfying....action-wise. Funnily enough, it's a Mendes' Bond film.

    I do enjoy it and I can agree with you mostly. It does feel a bit like Home Alone at first. Even Kincade is like Old Man Marley in more ways than one!
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited February 2023 Posts: 2,051
    Yeah, I agree @ByRoyalDecree, @MaxCasino I also think the explosions in SF's finale gave it that hellish look I think would have been also good for NTTD's finale, since Safin was presented as very evil with the mask and all that.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    007HallY wrote: »
    Neither Mendes nor Fukunaga are ‘arthouse’ directors though. Both have not only worked in drama but other genres too (ie. war films, gangster etc). If anything both also broadly fit the criteria of being able to handle drama while also having a good handle on action (albeit in a more low key way). I do agree that the staircase sequence in NTTD was underwhelming, but I suspect even a director who specialises in action would have given us more or less something similar (it feels very much a ‘let’s do the thing from John Wick/Atomic Blonde’ type situation, and I’d argue even in those films the style undercuts the tension and it’s more about the spectacle).

    Right.

    I can’t believe some haven’t even mentioned that John Wick’s visual style is heavily influenced by SKYFALL, especially the Shanghai sequence. Fans always say it should be Bond that starts the trends. There you go! Thank SKYFALL!
  • edited February 2023 Posts: 3,327
    Martin Campbell seemed to be the right fit for a Bond director. He got the style needed, and was also very good at filming action sequences too. For me CR was the last true bona fide classic Bond film. Before that you have to go back to GE.

    I appreciate SF has it's fans, but CR beats it hands down.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,051
    Martin Campbell seemed to be the right fit for a Bond director. He got the style needed, and was also very good at filming action sequences too. For me CR was the last true bona fide classic Bond film. Before that you have to go back to GE.

    I appreciate SF has it's fans, but CR beats it hands down.

    I completely agree. CR is better than SF. Martin Campbell is the modern Terence Young.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    For me SF not only beats CR, but it’s also the best Bond film since the 60s hands down.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    I appreciate SF has it's fans, but CR beats it hands down.

    I love them both but I would always pick CR of the two.
  • Posts: 12,474
    I’m over here just adoring both CR and SF x) I quite enjoy QOS and NTTD as well, but the former two I consider incredible, modern, standalone Bond flicks. But CR is my #1 between them.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited February 2023 Posts: 2,051
    There's a shot of Marlohe's Severine walking at the airport with some Chinese goons following her. Even if the shot didn't go into the film, I was thinking she was going to be a dangerous femme fatale, but sadly she wasn't...because she looked very confident in that shot. More enigmatic Severine would have improved SF massively.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited February 2023 Posts: 4,585
    There's a shot of Marlohe's Severine walking at the airport with some Chinese goons following her. Even if the shot didn't go into the film, I was thinking she was going to be a dangerous femme fatale, but sadly she wasn't...because she looked very confident in that shot. More enigmatic Severine would have improved SF massively.

    I remember that picture. In it. she is wearing the same black dress as when the assassination happens in front of the Modigliani. And the two men she is with are in the room, too. So the scene with her walking is likely the lobby of that building, where is going to meet. It would have been interesting how much more of Severine we didn't see. A "deleted scenes" reel for Skyfall would be epic.

    Someone attempted it here. The scene in question is at the :30 mark, and she appears to pass Patrice on an escalator.

  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited February 2023 Posts: 2,051
    TripAces wrote: »
    There's a shot of Marlohe's Severine walking at the airport with some Chinese goons following her. Even if the shot didn't go into the film, I was thinking she was going to be a dangerous femme fatale, but sadly she wasn't...because she looked very confident in that shot. More enigmatic Severine would have improved SF massively.

    I remember that picture. In it. she is wearing the same black dress as when the assassination happens in front of the Modigliani. And the two men she is with are in the room, too. So the scene with her walking is likely the lobby of that building, where is going to meet. It would have been interesting how much more of Severine we didn't see. A "deleted scenes" reel for Skyfall would be epic.

    Someone attempted it here. The scene in question is at the :30 mark, and she appears to pass Patrice on an escalator.


    It sure would have been greet to see more Severine. Since SF was more dramatic than action-packed, it needed such characters to add more to the story.

    Sometimes, I do wonder if SF was tailor-made for someone like David Fincher.
  • edited February 2023 Posts: 2,161
    Even with her limited screen time, she is one of my favorite Bond Girls. And I will add that her death is and will probably always be the most shocking and horrific that I have felt watching a Bond film. It was worth losing the character unexpectedly early for the impact of that moment. Close: Being a three year old at the drive-in, discovering the Golden Girl corpse along with Bond; that was traumatic. That moment never left me.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2023 Posts: 3,152
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It was worth losing the character unexpectedly early for the impact of that moment.
    Agreed, Birdleson. Severine was great, I'd've loved her to have had more screentime but, yes, that was outweighed by the dramatic impact of her sudden death. I was one of many people in the audience who were caught off guard by it when I saw SF in the cinema for the first time - British cinema audiences don't respond verbally to what's happening on-screen, but there was a definite unsettled shifting as people realised she was dead! SF was better for that unexpected twist.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I remember a lot of folks getting upset by her death, and my response was “of course, it’s SUPPOSED to upset you!”
  • timdalton007timdalton007 North Alabama
    Posts: 155
    I think another aspect of Maverick's particular success compared to NTTD is that, well, it's more of a feel good, upbeat movie in comparison to the tragic feel NTTD ends on (and executes well).

    Given the passage of time and reading much of the commentary, I think NTTD suffered from being a pre-pandemic movie released at a moment when (at least a portion of) audiences wanted an escapist spectacle. Or, in the case of David Mitchell, apparently apparently thinking Bond is meant to be panto. NTTD might be many things, but that isn't one of them.

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2023 Posts: 3,152
    Mitchell evidently wanted NTTD to be another MR or DAD. He once 'fessed up on tv that when he was a child he had a bell in his bedroom to summon his parents when he wanted something. That's more farce than panto.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    I remember a lot of folks getting upset by her death, and my response was “of course, it’s SUPPOSED to upset you!”

    I think one of the issues was the comment Bond makes about a waste of good Scotch. But I always interpreted that as a way to distract Silva and his henchmen: to get them thinking "huh?" in which they let their guard down just a bit.


    I think another aspect of Maverick's particular success compared to NTTD is that, well, it's more of a feel good, upbeat movie in comparison to the tragic feel NTTD ends on (and executes well).

    Given the passage of time and reading much of the commentary, I think NTTD suffered from being a pre-pandemic movie released at a moment when (at least a portion of) audiences wanted an escapist spectacle. Or, in the case of David Mitchell, apparently apparently thinking Bond is meant to be panto. NTTD might be many things, but that isn't one of them.

    What's interesting is my positive reaction to NTTD is due in part to its release: its tone and theme fit perfectly. I don't think I would have liked the film (or nearly as much) if I had seen it in April, 2020.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    TripAces wrote: »
    I think one of the issues was the comment Bond makes about a waste of good Scotch.
    Yes, I was always a bit baffled by all the 'Bond just wouldn't say that/react like that' objections to that line. One of the reasons that Silva killed Severine that way was to get at Bond - for me, the 'waste of good Scotch' quip was Bond refusing to give Silva the reaction he'd been hoping for. You don't give your enemy what they want, after all.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    Venutius wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    I think one of the issues was the comment Bond makes about a waste of good Scotch.
    Yes, I was always a bit baffled by all the 'Bond just wouldn't say that/react like that' objections to that line. One of the reasons that Silva killed Severine that way was to get at Bond - for me, the 'waste of good Scotch' quip was Bond refusing to give Silva the reaction he'd been hoping for. You don't give your enemy what they want, after all.

    Bond didn't let Silva knew his weakness, he'd tried to show that he's still tough.

    But we know that Bond was kind of shattered deep inside.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2023 Posts: 3,152
    Yes, indeed. Of course he felt it - but he wasn't going to give Silva the satisfaction of seeing that, right? So he covered the blow with the quip. It was a great line!
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    I think another aspect of Maverick's particular success compared to NTTD is that, well, it's more of a feel good, upbeat movie in comparison to the tragic feel NTTD ends on (and executes well).

    Given the passage of time and reading much of the commentary, I think NTTD suffered from being a pre-pandemic movie released at a moment when (at least a portion of) audiences wanted an escapist spectacle. Or, in the case of David Mitchell, apparently apparently thinking Bond is meant to be panto. NTTD might be many things, but that isn't one of them.

    Maybe escapist spactacle rather than spectacle was the word I should have used in my little list. Avatar, Maverick and undoubtedly the upcoming Dead Reckoning show that there is a very large audience for something that wows them, takes them away and has some nice sequences you want to re-watch. Like, we talk about Safin being an ill-defined villain with an unclear motivation. It's totally unclear who the villains in Maverick even are. Obviously that doesn't work for Bond; the villains are so important, but still about half of Maverick skates by on having set an arbitrary goal (do this run at this altitude in this time) and we then watch the characters fail and then succeed in achieving it. That's it. There's some stuff before and after that and some character building in between but that's the core of the film: Here's the mission, go do it.
    The question then is: Does it work because it's fighter jets or can it be done some other way that would be more in line with Bond? Maybe the underwater infiltration of Mr. Big's island could be a set-piece to build something like this around? The first act of Trigger Mortis could be a jumping off point too. I've said for a while that the F1 hype in the US after Drive to Survive could be something to steer into for Eon.
  • Posts: 4,166
    I appreciate SF has it's fans, but CR beats it hands down.

    I love them both but I would always pick CR of the two.

    To be fair I think both are the most fondly remembered Bond films nowadays amongst the average viewer (yes, even compared to the old ones).

    I'm more of a SF fan personally though.
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