Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    The personal angle is very overdone in my opinion. What's the last Bond movie to not have a personal angle? TLD? I suppose you could say TND lacks a personal angle except Bond and Paris romantic history is a part of the first act.

    If I had to rank the ones that I have enjoyed the most with the personal angle I'd say that CR, GE and SF would be the ones that stand out for me.
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 678
    Yeah I agree: it's gotten annoying.

    "This time it's personal" has lost its meaning because every. time. it's. personal.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    Yeah I agree: it's gotten annoying.

    "This time it's personal" has lost its meaning because every. time. it's. personal.

    Well said
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 3,327
    thedove wrote: »
    The personal angle is very overdone in my opinion. What's the last Bond movie to not have a personal angle? TLD? I suppose you could say TND lacks a personal angle except Bond and Paris romantic history is a part of the first act.

    If I had to rank the ones that I have enjoyed the most with the personal angle I'd say that CR, GE and SF would be the ones that stand out for me.

    TLD was the last traditional Bond movie. LTK set the template for everything that followed (particularly in the Craig era), with Bond going rogue, which Craig seems to have done every single film.

    Where LTK does work, and should be the template for future films is in its use of incorporating accurately adapted Fleming scenes, rather than Fleming re-imagined, which has been the trend with Craig's last 3 films.

    The material still unused in the Fleming books is far stronger than most of the stuff in the last 3 films, which is where EON have been making a big mistake in departing from using this.

    If the personal angle is so precious to EON, then why the hell have they still not adapted the most personal story of all in YOLT? Beggars belief.
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 1,220
    thedove wrote: »
    The personal angle is very overdone in my opinion. What's the last Bond movie to not have a personal angle? TLD? I suppose you could say TND lacks a personal angle except Bond and Paris romantic history is a part of the first act.

    If I had to rank the ones that I have enjoyed the most with the personal angle I'd say that CR, GE and SF would be the ones that stand out for me.

    TLD was the last traditional Bond movie. LTK set the template for everything that followed (particularly in the Craig era), with Bond going rogue, which Craig seems to have done every single film.

    Where LTK does work, and should be the template for future films is in its use of incorporating accurately adapted Fleming scenes, rather than Fleming re-imagined, which has been the trend with Craig's last 3 films.

    The material still unused in the Fleming books is far stronger than most of the stuff in the last 3 films, which is where EON have been making a big mistake in departing from using this.

    If the personal angle is so precious to EON, then why the hell have they still not adapted the most personal story of all in YOLT? Beggars belief.

    The fact that we haven’t seen a more faithful adaption of YOLT in the Craig era is really surprising to me as well. I was thinking of all the (mostly baseless) speculation that NTTD would be a remake of Dr. No, but it gave me the idea, if I were to remake a Bond film, I’d do it by rebooting a new Bond actor with a remake of OHMSS and then adapting the literary arc of YOLT and TMWTGG. I think there’s a lot of material in those novels that could be adapted well to Craig or a subsequent actors.

    Although they may go “lighter” with the next actor, I think “prestige” Bond is here to stay, after bringing in directors like Forster, Mendes, and Fukunaga, and I believe that means that we’ll continue to see more thematic/emotional heft than we have in the pre-Craig era. That being said, they need to find a way to do so without the “this time it’s personal trope,” which seems to be very hard for them to do.
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 3,327
    thedove wrote: »
    The personal angle is very overdone in my opinion. What's the last Bond movie to not have a personal angle? TLD? I suppose you could say TND lacks a personal angle except Bond and Paris romantic history is a part of the first act.

    If I had to rank the ones that I have enjoyed the most with the personal angle I'd say that CR, GE and SF would be the ones that stand out for me.

    TLD was the last traditional Bond movie. LTK set the template for everything that followed (particularly in the Craig era), with Bond going rogue, which Craig seems to have done every single film.

    Where LTK does work, and should be the template for future films is in its use of incorporating accurately adapted Fleming scenes, rather than Fleming re-imagined, which has been the trend with Craig's last 3 films.

    The material still unused in the Fleming books is far stronger than most of the stuff in the last 3 films, which is where EON have been making a big mistake in departing from using this.

    If the personal angle is so precious to EON, then why the hell have they still not adapted the most personal story of all in YOLT? Beggars belief.

    The fact that we haven’t seen a more faithful adaption of YOLT in the Craig era is really surprising to me as well. I was thinking of all the (mostly baseless) speculation that NTTD would be a remake of Dr. No.

    It's obviously not a remake of Dr. No. Speculation came from that probably because Jamaica is one of the locations.

    Also don't forget the rumoured working title on Bond 25 was Shatterhand, so NTTD may still well be YOLT, particularly if it involves Blofeld. Also, if Bond's girl/bride is killed as has been rumoured, this gives even more weight to NTTD being the final Blofeld arc, which ties in again with YOLT.

    Felix Leiter may be Tiger Tanaka in all but name. Asking Bond for a favour, the same way Tiger asked Bond for a favour in the novel. And Bond accepts the favour because the person he has been asked to eliminate turns personal for Bond, when he discovers who Shatterhand really is.

    I would love the ending of the film to go one step further, and give us the last chapter of YOLT - an amnesia ridden Bond living a simple life by the beach with his girlfriend, then one day thinking he has connections with Russia and sets off to travel there, still not knowing who he is.

    This would set things up nicely for the new actor of Bond 26, and the breathtaking opening of TMWTGG.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited October 2019 Posts: 8,399
    It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the next Bond film after 25 goes straight to Netflix. But if Nolan is at the helm it will definitely be a theatrical presentation, he has the might of Warner B. Behind him. I think its important to have someone like that on board if we want to preserve the franchise as it has existed until today. Bond should be a big event, shot on film, and using practical stunts.
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 3,327
    It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the next Bond film after 25 goes straight to Netflix. But if Nolan is at the helm it will definitely be a theatrical presentation, he has the might of Warner B. Behind him. I think its important to have someone like that on board if we want to preserve the franchise as it has existed until today. Bond should be a big event, shot on film, and using practical stunts.

    You may be right there. Breaking Bad's El Camino, and The Irishman by Scorsese may be the new way big drama Hollywood films now get released - short cinema release, followed by Netflix.

    If you also look at the trends of filmgoers now, where TV drama has replaced going to the cinema, and the likes of Breaking Bad has become the standard which all dramas should now be judged by, the new Joker film is obviously influenced by this - a character arc study in the same vain as Walter White, slowly turning more bad, yet somehow managing to keep the audience just about on his side.

    So I expect the character arc of Bond to be more explored in depth going forward, rather than those clamouring for the camp 70's Moore days of double taking pigeons, Bond in space, underwater cars and Ken Adam volcano sets. Those Lewis Gilbert type of Bond films are well and truly over for the time being.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited October 2019 Posts: 8,399
    They will scale back in kinda like LALD and TMWTGG way. Smaller scale, but still lighter tone movies. I could see a straight to netflix series of movies released every other year like in the old days, featuring smaller missions in the old Moore/Connery mold. Maybe 120 million budget instead of bloated 300 million. Under 2 hr, quick slick affairs, with maybe a couple of stand out action sequences per film, but mostly low-key suspense, intrigue, sex and humour. They could cut back on big casting names, artsy directors, and go back to the roots. I think that might bring Bond back front and centre to the public eye again.
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 3,327
    They will scale back in kinda like LALD and TMWTGG way. Smaller scale, but still lighter tone movies. I could see a straight to netflix series of movies released every other year like in the old days, featuring smaller missions in the old Moore/Connery mold. Maybe 120 million budget instead of bloated 300 million. Under 2 hr, quick slick affairs, with maybe a couple of stand out action sequences per film, but mostly low-key suspense, intrigue, sex and humour. They could cut back on big casting names, artsy directors, and go back to the roots. I think that might bring Bond back front and centre to the public eye again.

    I agree about scaled back, but I'm not sure on the lighter tone. Netflix dramas don't generally follow this trend, and recent movies like Joker don't either. I think if anything Bond will go darker, not lighter. Maybe blacker humour could be the new way, but I doubt we'll ever see the likes of a 70's Sheriff Pepper reappearing again like we had in those early Moore flicks.

    But I agree, maybe more scaled back in terms of action, with smaller missions.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Bond will not end up on Netflix.
  • Posts: 3,327
    RC7 wrote: »
    Bond will not end up on Netflix.

    Never say never. No one knows.
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 17,756
    What I hope for personally, is mission-based adventures, around 2hrs - 2hrs 10 mins long as opposed to lengthy character explorations. Bring back at least some more fun and carefreeness, while still presenting us a spy thriller. The films can also take a step back in terms of scale, without feeling like Bond on budget.

    That's what I want to see. What I expect we'll get is quite different; I guess character explorations are here to stay, the films will tend to be a bit longer and rooted in drama rather than a lighter tone. I also think it's telling with EON picking directors like Forster, Mendes, and Fukunaga that films like these are here to stay – potentially for a long time.

    As to where Bond ends up – on the big screen or streaming; I really don't care. I don't go to the cinema often anymore.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    RC7 wrote: »
    Bond will not end up on Netflix.

    If you didn't laugh you'd cry.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    I don't think more serious movies are here to stay. Quite the opposite, in fact. They will only make them a certain way while they keep being successful, and SF was the peak for this type of movie. Theres only so many times they can reuse the same tropes of " this time its personal". As we have seen with SP, people are Already beginning to tire of it and it looks like we may be in for more of the same with Bond 25. I think by Bond 26 comes along, audiences will be very vocal about wanting a change.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Benny wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Bond will not end up on Netflix.

    If you didn't laugh you'd cry.

    I know, right?
  • Posts: 3,327
    I don't think more serious movies are here to stay. Quite the opposite, in fact. They will only make them a certain way while they keep being successful, and SF was the peak for this type of movie. Theres only so many times they can reuse the same tropes of " this time its personal". As we have seen with SP, people are Already beginning to tire of it and it looks like we may be in for more of the same with Bond 25. I think by Bond 26 comes along, audiences will be very vocal about wanting a change.

    The films can still be serious without making it another personal mission for Bond. In Dr. No, FRWL or TB, Bond was not a personal mission, neither was he in OHMSS (other than Bond falling in love).
  • Posts: 3,327
    RC7 wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Bond will not end up on Netflix.

    If you didn't laugh you'd cry.

    I know, right?

    I don't want Bond on straight-to-Netflix either
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    I don't think more serious movies are here to stay. Quite the opposite, in fact. They will only make them a certain way while they keep being successful, and SF was the peak for this type of movie. Theres only so many times they can reuse the same tropes of " this time its personal". As we have seen with SP, people are Already beginning to tire of it and it looks like we may be in for more of the same with Bond 25. I think by Bond 26 comes along, audiences will be very vocal about wanting a change.

    The films can still be serious without making it another personal mission for Bond. In Dr. No, FRWL or TB, Bond was not a personal mission, neither was he in OHMSS (other than Bond falling in love).

    I think movies like OHMSS should only be attempted once in a while. When you try and do that every single time, it gets tiresome and redundant. The Craig era is testimony to that. I think Dr No and FRWL, are great for there time, but are a bit too dry and slow for 2020 audiences. I think they need that element of humour and breeziness too. But it doesn't have to be too pronounced.
  • They will scale back in kinda like LALD and TMWTGG way. Smaller scale, but still lighter tone movies. I could see a straight to netflix series of movies released every other year like in the old days, featuring smaller missions in the old Moore/Connery mold. Maybe 120 million budget instead of bloated 300 million. Under 2 hr, quick slick affairs, with maybe a couple of stand out action sequences per film, but mostly low-key suspense, intrigue, sex and humour. They could cut back on big casting names, artsy directors, and go back to the roots. I think that might bring Bond back front and centre to the public eye again.

    You seem to be implying that Bond is some niche dying brand but SF was the highest grossing film of all time in the UK, SP did really well too, and NTTD has already gotten loads of publicity before they've even dropped the trailer.

    The Bond brand is doing fine. No they're not constantly churning films out like Marvel but that's a good thing imo and they still have a massively successful film every few years. In what world would they abandon that to go straight to Netflix?
    It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the next Bond film after 25 goes straight to Netflix. But if Nolan is at the helm it will definitely be a theatrical presentation, he has the might of Warner B. Behind him. I think its important to have someone like that on board if we want to preserve the franchise as it has existed until today. Bond should be a big event, shot on film, and using practical stunts.

    You may be right there. Breaking Bad's El Camino, and The Irishman by Scorsese may be the new way big drama Hollywood films now get released - short cinema release, followed by Netflix.

    If you also look at the trends of filmgoers now, where TV drama has replaced going to the cinema, and the likes of Breaking Bad has become the standard which all dramas should now be judged by, the new Joker film is obviously influenced by this - a character arc study in the same vain as Walter White, slowly turning more bad, yet somehow managing to keep the audience just about on his side.

    So I expect the character arc of Bond to be more explored in depth going forward, rather than those clamouring for the camp 70's Moore days of double taking pigeons, Bond in space, underwater cars and Ken Adam volcano sets. Those Lewis Gilbert type of Bond films are well and truly over for the time being.

    Stuff like the Irishman going to Netflix makes sense because that sort of film might not have been able to make its massive budget back in cinemas. Bond isn't a risky edgy drama like that, it's a 12a rated blockbuster. SF grossed over a billion, SP nearly 900 million. They're not going to abandon that for Netflix. And TV might not be an inferior medium anymore but in no way has it replaced going to the cinema, especially not for big blockbusters like Bond.
  • Posts: 3,327

    Stuff like the Irishman going to Netflix makes sense because that sort of film might not have been able to make its massive budget back in cinemas. Bond isn't a risky edgy drama like that, it's a 12a rated blockbuster. SF grossed over a billion, SP nearly 900 million. They're not going to abandon that for Netflix. And TV might not be an inferior medium anymore but in no way has it replaced going to the cinema, especially not for big blockbusters like Bond.

    I could see a spin-off more likely for Netflix, maybe a 50's period piece based on the novels.

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512

    Stuff like the Irishman going to Netflix makes sense because that sort of film might not have been able to make its massive budget back in cinemas. Bond isn't a risky edgy drama like that, it's a 12a rated blockbuster. SF grossed over a billion, SP nearly 900 million. They're not going to abandon that for Netflix. And TV might not be an inferior medium anymore but in no way has it replaced going to the cinema, especially not for big blockbusters like Bond.

    I could see a spin-off more likely for Netflix, maybe a 50's period piece based on the novels.

    That no one would watch. It’s a fanboy wet dream. The general public’s view of Bond is very different to that of a someone who is a devoted fan. There’s no mileage in it.
  • Posts: 3,327
    RC7 wrote: »

    Stuff like the Irishman going to Netflix makes sense because that sort of film might not have been able to make its massive budget back in cinemas. Bond isn't a risky edgy drama like that, it's a 12a rated blockbuster. SF grossed over a billion, SP nearly 900 million. They're not going to abandon that for Netflix. And TV might not be an inferior medium anymore but in no way has it replaced going to the cinema, especially not for big blockbusters like Bond.

    I could see a spin-off more likely for Netflix, maybe a 50's period piece based on the novels.

    That no one would watch. It’s a fanboy wet dream. The general public’s view of Bond is very different to that of a someone who is a devoted fan. There’s no mileage in it.

    How do you know for certain there is no mileage in it?
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541

    Stuff like the Irishman going to Netflix makes sense because that sort of film might not have been able to make its massive budget back in cinemas. Bond isn't a risky edgy drama like that, it's a 12a rated blockbuster. SF grossed over a billion, SP nearly 900 million. They're not going to abandon that for Netflix. And TV might not be an inferior medium anymore but in no way has it replaced going to the cinema, especially not for big blockbusters like Bond.

    I could see a spin-off more likely for Netflix, maybe a 50's period piece based on the novels.

    I would like to see that if happened.
  • Posts: 3,327

    Stuff like the Irishman going to Netflix makes sense because that sort of film might not have been able to make its massive budget back in cinemas. Bond isn't a risky edgy drama like that, it's a 12a rated blockbuster. SF grossed over a billion, SP nearly 900 million. They're not going to abandon that for Netflix. And TV might not be an inferior medium anymore but in no way has it replaced going to the cinema, especially not for big blockbusters like Bond.

    I could see a spin-off more likely for Netflix, maybe a 50's period piece based on the novels.

    I would like to see that if happened.

    According to RC7, us 2 would be the only people on planet earth wanting to watch that, along with a handful of fanboys.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    Yeah I agree: it's gotten annoying.

    "This time it's personal" has lost its meaning because every. time. it's. personal.

    +1
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    What I hope for personally, is mission-based adventures, around 2hrs - 2hrs 10 mins long as opposed to lengthy character explorations. Bring back at least some more fun and carefreeness, while still presenting us a spy thriller. The films can also take a step back in terms of scale, without feeling like Bond on budget.

    That's what I want to see. What I expect we'll get is quite different; I guess character explorations are here to stay, the films will tend to be a bit longer and rooted in drama rather than a lighter tone. I also think it's telling with EON picking directors like Forster, Mendes, and Fukunaga that films like these are here to stay – potentially for a long time.

    As to where Bond ends up – on the big screen or streaming; I really don't care. I don't go to the cinema often anymore.

    I want him to stay on the big screen it wouldn't feel the same plus I don't go to movies often so the pace they are doing is perfect for me.
  • Posts: 17,756
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    What I hope for personally, is mission-based adventures, around 2hrs - 2hrs 10 mins long as opposed to lengthy character explorations. Bring back at least some more fun and carefreeness, while still presenting us a spy thriller. The films can also take a step back in terms of scale, without feeling like Bond on budget.

    That's what I want to see. What I expect we'll get is quite different; I guess character explorations are here to stay, the films will tend to be a bit longer and rooted in drama rather than a lighter tone. I also think it's telling with EON picking directors like Forster, Mendes, and Fukunaga that films like these are here to stay – potentially for a long time.

    As to where Bond ends up – on the big screen or streaming; I really don't care. I don't go to the cinema often anymore.

    I want him to stay on the big screen it wouldn't feel the same plus I don't go to movies often so the pace they are doing is perfect for me.

    I just prefer watching movies at home rather than at a cinema. No people talking loudly, sitting on their phones throughout the film, eating noisily, etc. It's rarely worth the price going to the cinema, IMO.
  • Posts: 19,339
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    What I hope for personally, is mission-based adventures, around 2hrs - 2hrs 10 mins long as opposed to lengthy character explorations. Bring back at least some more fun and carefreeness, while still presenting us a spy thriller. The films can also take a step back in terms of scale, without feeling like Bond on budget.

    That's what I want to see. What I expect we'll get is quite different; I guess character explorations are here to stay, the films will tend to be a bit longer and rooted in drama rather than a lighter tone. I also think it's telling with EON picking directors like Forster, Mendes, and Fukunaga that films like these are here to stay – potentially for a long time.

    As to where Bond ends up – on the big screen or streaming; I really don't care. I don't go to the cinema often anymore.

    I want him to stay on the big screen it wouldn't feel the same plus I don't go to movies often so the pace they are doing is perfect for me.

    I just prefer watching movies at home rather than at a cinema. No people talking loudly, sitting on their phones throughout the film, eating noisily, etc. It's rarely worth the price going to the cinema, IMO.

    I kind of agree with that.
    I took my dad to see SP on opening night and,when I mentioned he could come with us to see NTTD,he refused,saying it was so loud it almost deafened him.

    He will wait until I get the DVD.
  • edited October 2019 Posts: 17,756
    barryt007 wrote: »
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    What I hope for personally, is mission-based adventures, around 2hrs - 2hrs 10 mins long as opposed to lengthy character explorations. Bring back at least some more fun and carefreeness, while still presenting us a spy thriller. The films can also take a step back in terms of scale, without feeling like Bond on budget.

    That's what I want to see. What I expect we'll get is quite different; I guess character explorations are here to stay, the films will tend to be a bit longer and rooted in drama rather than a lighter tone. I also think it's telling with EON picking directors like Forster, Mendes, and Fukunaga that films like these are here to stay – potentially for a long time.

    As to where Bond ends up – on the big screen or streaming; I really don't care. I don't go to the cinema often anymore.

    I want him to stay on the big screen it wouldn't feel the same plus I don't go to movies often so the pace they are doing is perfect for me.

    I just prefer watching movies at home rather than at a cinema. No people talking loudly, sitting on their phones throughout the film, eating noisily, etc. It's rarely worth the price going to the cinema, IMO.

    I kind of agree with that.
    I took my dad to see SP on opening night and,when I mentioned he could come with us to see NTTD,he refused,saying it was so loud it almost deafened him.

    He will wait until I get the DVD.

    Cinemas do crank up the sound, don't they (but for a reason, of course). The cinemas I have access to aren't the most impressive ones, so you're really just paying to see a film on a larger screen with the volume turned up a bit. No IMAX or something like that.
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