Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    It’s referencing a Daily Mail article from April 1st.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited April 2023 Posts: 8,188
    peter wrote: »
    @slide_99 , personally I thought Brosnan was head and tails better in TND , than the unsure performance he, IMO, put forth in GE.


    As weird as it may sound, I think Brosnan sports a better haircut in TND than in Goldeneye. His haircut in GE is a bit too “Remington Steele” than “James Bond.”

    His hair is so coiffed in GE that you wonder how the hell he’s able to keep it that way without taking the time to look in a mirror and comb it.

    I prefer Broz with the shorter haircuts in TWINE/DAD.

    Absolute BS. They would never entrust a rookie director…

    It wouldn’t be the first time EON hired a rookie director.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    She’d make a more entertaining film than Nolan, 😂…
  • Posts: 2,161
    peter wrote: »
    @slide_99 , personally I thought Brosnan was head and tails better in TND , than the unsure performance he, IMO, put forth in GE.


    As weird as it may sound, I think Brosnan sports a better haircut in TND than in Goldeneye. His haircut in GE is a bit too “Remington Steele” than “James Bond.”

    It definitely took a film in to get the hair correct.
    I feel that Brosnan improved in the role with each film, with the films almost descending in quality (I prefer DAD to TWINE and, usually, TND).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Broz is definitely his best in DAD. It’s the first time I actually buy him as Bond rather than regard him as a poser.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I found him so relaxed and less performative in TND.

    I also thought he looked his healthiest in this film (whereas he was way too thin in GE, and seemed a little rounder in the face, and softer in the body in his final two).

    And I did like his hair as well...
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    I think his top form was in TWINE.
  • peter wrote: »
    @slide_99 , personally I thought Brosnan was head and tails better in TND , than the unsure performance he, IMO, put forth in GE.


    As weird as it may sound, I think Brosnan sports a better haircut in TND than in Goldeneye. His haircut in GE is a bit too “Remington Steele” than “James Bond.”

    His hair is so coiffed in GE that you wonder how the hell he’s able to keep it that way without taking the time to look in a mirror and comb it.

    I prefer Broz with the shorter haircuts in TWINE/DAD.

    Absolute BS. They would never entrust a rookie director…

    It wouldn’t be the first time EON hired a rookie director.

    The funny thing is that if Brosnan’s bangs were swept across his forehead, he’d most certainly be rocking a bowl cut. His haircuts in TWINE and DAD are a vast improvement.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    TND is an underrated gem. The last of the old school breezy bonds, before the great wave of "personal stakes" films took over (yes I know the Paris Carver subplot is personal, but it was about 15 minutes in a 2 hour movie so I give I a pass). Brozza never looked suaver, and in combination with Arnold's awesome score than a swagger that Craig could only dream of.

    With regards to where the franchise SHOULD go after Craig I think the answer fairly simple. I don't know where the Bond movies will end up in the future, but I think in the immediate short term they should focus on making the "anti-craig" bond film. Craig take in the character was to add depth and make each story personal and a means examine the character in more detail. While this worked very well for Casino Royale, where they were working with a clean slate and had the benefit of Flemings novel to draw inspiration from, repeating this formula over the course of multiple films quickly presented problems. Firstly, when everything has personal stakes it means having to make the previously expansive and exciting world of international espionage suddenly very tied with james bond himself. So for instance, bond falls in love on his first mission, but it turns out his love is working for an evil organisation. in trying to track down this evil org, he comes across an assassin who tells him about another evil organisation, who happens to be run by bonds long lost step brother. Bond then falls in love with the assassins daughter, who has a secret that she was rescued from a frozen lake as a young girl. Its turns out her rescuer also went on to become a evil leader, who kills bonds evil stepbrother and for some reason wants to raise bonds secret daughter as his own, and... yeah. All these timelines overlap too neatly, and it becomes a little too coincidental. Also, when bonds mission is personal each time, it means that each film follows a similar pattern, of bond quitting and going into hiding, drinking himself to death before being coaxed out of the shadows, getting back into shape, and being mocked for being past his prime and an "old dog" etc. Following a formula is fine when it's a standalone story each time, but when it'd supposed to be an ongoing story of someone's life you have to wonder how many times a person can find themselves in the same situation and respond in exactly the same way? How many times the same guy become cynical and washed up, only to clean himself up again and find his mojo, and then a few years later be back where he started? And that's my point about the Craig era as a whole - what started out as brave and exciting (and very necessary) departure from the standard bond adventure we were used to seeing has gradually become stale and tired over time. For me Bond 25 represented the ne plus ultra of this style of film. How can you get a more personal stakes, pull at your heart strings bond than, not only all the usual Craig tropes, but bond finding out he has a family, and then sacrificing himself to save them?

    And this, for me is why the next Bond should be the anti-craig bond film. Just like Craigs bond was designed from the ground up as the perfect antidote to what the brosnan films became (bright and flashy, but hollow), so must the next Bond act as a countersignal the Craig tropes, and develop a whole new way to tell engrossing stories without tying it to Bonds struggle to find his identity, or overcome some personal baggage from his past. EON should cast the Craig tropes out and start with writing an actually engaging plot, with real stakes that have an impact for the real world. Have the drama come from the unique and bizarre situations that only bond could find himself in. Bring back the irreverence, and allow the absurdity of Bonds way of life to be seen for what it is. Make the films faster more kinetic and vibrant. I always think the first film in a new era should always feel a little rebellious, and if the personal side of Bond is the new status quo, then Bond 26 should be doing as much as it can to rage against the machine, just like how CR intentionally threw out Moneypenny and Q back in 2006, to establish itself on its own terms. Ofcourse I'm not saying that bond films should, never go back to telling serious or personal stories again, everything ebbs and flows with bond, and I'm sure what formula they do for the next Bond will eventually get tired and dull, and then serious bond will be exciting again, but I am saying that after Craigs 15 year tenure, they need to completely change tack and do something completely different, but also original in its own right that includes some of the old-school humour and wit.
  • I don’t think it’s on EON’s agenda to copy everything that worked in the Craig era, but if NTTD, and to a lesser extent Spectre, are any indication, I do think we’ll be continuing to get a healthy mix of Classic Bond escapism with the rooted world of Craig’s Bond. Something more akin to TLD/GE.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    TND is one of those films I hope to like with each viewing but it always just comes off as generic 90s actioner in the worst sense. Zero flair.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    TND is one of those films I hope to like with each viewing but it always just comes off as generic 90s actioner in the worst sense. Zero flair.

    The latter is what I'm hoping for. Currently, I'm a few beers deep watching TLD right now and that's the perfect film to draw a template on how to reboot/refresh the franchise. I don't think we're getting another MR or DAD the same way we're not getting another Craig-type anthology.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited April 2023 Posts: 3,789
    I've just dreamed of this..... It's a bit odd but, I thought it would be interesting for me to share it here: (again, it's just a dream).

    The PTS would start with M in a cemetery, it's autumn, he's standing, (but he's slightly covered by an orange leaf tree (because of an autumn perhaps?) And there's also a very old, grey facade as his background), but all of a sudden, he talked (I don't remember what did he said though), like he started talking to himself in a right timing.

    Then someone appeared at his back, walking, and it's the new Bond actor, I don't know who he is, but he's not one of the actors who's in the running, he's likely to be unknown, so here's the description (lean and a bit too skinny, clean shaven, he have dimples, dark haired, and he's a bit pale, he's not tall, just an average height).

    When he's appeared, M handed him his gun.

    There's also a scene (it looks like it's in the trailer), he kissed a girl in a public bathroom (they're both fully dressed anyway), the Bond actor in that scene wore a suit without a jacket, and then shifted to another scene where he pressed a key on a laptop and it showed that it's like he detonated something, it turned off the nuclear bombs around the world, as it showed different countries (don't remember those countries).

    It's just a dream from me though, I don't know.
  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    Posts: 685
    peter wrote: »
    @slide_99 , personally I thought Brosnan was head and tails better in TND , than the unsure performance he, IMO, put forth in GE.


    As weird as it may sound, I think Brosnan sports a better haircut in TND than in Goldeneye. His haircut in GE is a bit too “Remington Steele” than “James Bond.”

    His hair is so coiffed in GE that you wonder how the hell he’s able to keep it that way without taking the time to look in a mirror and comb it.

    I prefer Broz with the shorter haircuts in TWINE/DAD.

    Absolute BS. They would never entrust a rookie director…

    It wouldn’t be the first time EON hired a rookie director.

    I can confirm that haircut is an absolute b*tch to keep in place.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    TND is one of those films I hope to like with each viewing but it always just comes off as generic 90s actioner in the worst sense. Zero flair.

    Past one random viewing I had really early one morning some years back that was actually very entertaining, this is the same hope I have every time I watch it and it never pays off. It's too generic in a lot of respects, especially in the gunfights and fisticuffs. It has a TV movie quality to it.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I agree TND is lacking, but in spite of its shortcomings, I find Brosnan so good in it. I actually enjoy watching him in this film.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,636
    peter wrote: »
    I agree TND is lacking, but in spite of its shortcomings, I find Brosnan so good in it. I actually enjoy watching him in this film.

    Me too. Although I like Jonathan Pryce as Elliot Carver, I still wish we could have gotten Sir Anthony Hopkins to play him. Hopkins as a Bond villain is a missed opportunity.
  • I enjoy TND more and more when I see it, but I do see the complaints people have with the film. My issue is the toning down of the action scenes. It seemed that in Goldeneye the action scenes where much more brutal and hard hitting, whereas perhaps the rest of the Brosnan era they felt a bit weaker in comparison.
  • Posts: 4,162
    I actually really like TND. It feels a bit dated in certain places (think that's what some people mean about the generic 90s action movie/TV movie quality to it) but it still holds up for me. I think people remember it more nowadays because of the 'fake news' aspect of the plot having some resonance today. Brosnan is pretty good as well (I think his performance in GE is a bit more on the Fleming-esque side than this one, but in both he's pretty good).

    I would say that as much as Anthony Hopkins not playing a Bond villain is a shame, I don't think he would have been suited to Carver. I think part of the character's appeal is that on the surface he's this mild mannered, even trust worthy looking figure, and yet beneath that he's this manipulative madman. I find Pryce sells it well. Hopkins, great as he is, would have overplayed the sinister aspects of the character and I don't think it would have had quite the same menace or resonance with the main ideas of the story.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited April 2023 Posts: 3,789
    TND for me is a fine film, my complaints with it was the inconsistency, I think this is where the inconsistency issues in the Bond film started.

    This is the film where I liked some parts of it, but it couldn't make up for the whole.

    It tried to be an action heavy oriented film, but at the same time, tried to be a bit dramatic (that Bond and Paris Carver sequence), and yet at the same time tried to be a bit camp (the jokes, one liners, and some funny bits like the Elliot Carver doing Martial Arts or that whole Parking Lot Car Chase), And in my view, all of these didn't came together well. And it's pretty odd too, because that latter scene in particular, after Bond grieved Paris' death, just a minutes later, he's happy again in that Car Chase playing his remote controlled car, it's the most evident of how much inconsistent is this film.

    I liked it better than the others, but the inconsistency of it is the main flaw for me.

    I think in general, the inconsistency of tone is what plagued the Brosnan Era Bond films (post-GE).

    And again, it did happened again with Craig in his last two entries (SP & NTTD).
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I agree TND is lacking, but in spite of its shortcomings, I find Brosnan so good in it. I actually enjoy watching him in this film.

    Me too. Although I like Jonathan Pryce as Elliot Carver, I still wish we could have gotten Sir Anthony Hopkins to play him. Hopkins as a Bond villain is a missed opportunity.

    … and Monica Bellucci as Paris Carver.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    I don't find TND to be any more "generic" than about at least half of the Bond catalogue, so that's a very strange stick to beat it with.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    Posts: 1,033
    TND reminds me if AI generated a “Bond film”…. And it did a pretty great job. Easily a mid tier film for me. Sometimes slightly higher.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited April 2023 Posts: 7,551
    Very happy with Teri Hatcher and Jonathan Pryce, personally. But yeah, Hopkins as a Bond villain would have been great.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,649
    I don't find TND to be any more "generic" than about at least half of the Bond catalogue, so that's a very strange stick to beat it with.

    Agree. It's a bit of a reliable gem. Plus, looking back, I realize now it had a greater impact on me than I originally recognized. I work in media now and find myself quoting Carver all the time.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I don't find TND to be any more "generic" than about at least half of the Bond catalogue, so that's a very strange stick to beat it with.

    It’s just a first impression I have never been able to shake off. TND was my very first Bond film, and I found it incredibly underwhelming at the time, enough that it put me off wanting to see more Bond films. Sometime later I saw GE (after enjoying playing the N64 game) and was surprised by how much better it was in all aspects that it made me want to see the other films.

    You’re right that other films can be as generic. TWINE is one of them. For all of the strengths of John Glen’s films, they still lack a certain flair that other films have and I think that’s part of what caused the decline in box office attendance the 80s.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I also have always had this lingering issue in TND where Brosnan's Bond is up against way too many geriatric looking henchmen and it makes the fights suffer as a result, like the recording booth sequence or even the bit throughout the newspaper factory. Toss in those cheesy '90s sound effects and it takes me right out.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I also have always had this lingering issue in TND where Brosnan's Bond is up against way too many geriatric looking henchmen and it makes the fights suffer as a result, like the recording booth sequence or even the bit throughout the newspaper factory. Toss in those cheesy '90s sound effects and it takes me right out.

    Bond and Stamper should have fought in that booth with Bond barely escaping by the skin of his teeth. That would make their fight at the end just as satisfying.
  • Posts: 4,162
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I also have always had this lingering issue in TND where Brosnan's Bond is up against way too many geriatric looking henchmen and it makes the fights suffer as a result, like the recording booth sequence or even the bit throughout the newspaper factory. Toss in those cheesy '90s sound effects and it takes me right out.

    I forgot about the sound effects (especially of the punches) in that film, haha. Very distracting in hindsight.

    As for the henchmen, I'm actually a huge fan of Dr. Kauffman (somewhat cliched and silly as he is). Stamper's a bit of a budget Red Grant though, but then again that's actually a rather common thing in the series (off the top of my head YOLT, TLD and FYEO all had similar looking blonde, muscled henchmen).
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Murdock wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I also have always had this lingering issue in TND where Brosnan's Bond is up against way too many geriatric looking henchmen and it makes the fights suffer as a result, like the recording booth sequence or even the bit throughout the newspaper factory. Toss in those cheesy '90s sound effects and it takes me right out.

    Bond and Stamper should have fought in that booth with Bond barely escaping by the skin of his teeth. That would make their fight at the end just as satisfying.

    Agreed. Stamper is sadly underutilized throughout (love him as a henchman) but certainly makes up for it during the finale.
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