Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 12,462
    If we get stuck on arcs + continued storylines from here on out my enthusiasm will die down quite a bit. SP’s biggest issue for me is trying to make the era have a continued storyline that didn’t really add up. NTTD is going to be a direct continuation so I’m wary but still cautiously optimistic they’ll do better. But moving forward I really want to return to the standalone idea. It helps the series keep its uniqueness and longevity.
  • If Universal will continue to be involved post-NTTD then I imagine they will apply all possible pressure on EON to make the films on a more regular schedule. The budgets will be big, the box office will be big, they'll add Bond attractions to their theme parks. They'll milk the cow, but still keep it as a premium adult fare, which is no guarantee with Disney.

    My dream though is to see one of the streaming studios develop a period mini-series set in the 1950s, adapting Fleming's early Bond novels and Horowitz's.
  • Posts: 12,462
    It’s probably a long shot, but the best thing that could happen moving forward is getting super faithful adaptations of the Fleming novels set in the right time and everything. Imagine getting one perfect actor for it and them being able to do every one of Fleming’s Bond stories, in a miniseries or something. It’d be too good to be true.
  • Posts: 12,462
    The faithful novel adaptations definitely wouldn’t happen as traditional films. They are expected to have more action than is in the novels, and certainly there’d have to be at least a couple actors to cover all the films for however long it would take. Either way we probably won’t get it :( personally I’m rooting for the films to be period pieces after NTTD for an era or so.
  • Posts: 12,462
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I’m not concerned about keeping the same actor. If it works out fine, but my main concern is a quality product.

    I agree that’s the main thing, but it’d be quite a cool novelty to see one actor cover all of Fleming’s territory somehow. It’d add a little more sentiment for the viewers I think. I’d love to see a talented youngblood begin in Ian Fleming’s CR, go through all of it and end as an older spy with TMWTGG.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I’m not concerned about keeping the same actor. If it works out fine, but my main concern is a quality product.

    I agree that’s the main thing, but it’d be quite a cool novelty to see one actor cover all of Fleming’s territory somehow. It’d add a little more sentiment for the viewers I think. I’d love to see a talented youngblood begin in Ian Fleming’s CR, go through all of it and end as an older spy with TMWTGG.

    Considering there are Bond fans that don’t even care for/haven’t read the novels, this idea, which crops up time and time again doesn’t seem viable to me. Commercially it’s a really hard sell and at the end of the day that’s what it comes down to.
  • Posts: 12,462
    RC7 wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I’m not concerned about keeping the same actor. If it works out fine, but my main concern is a quality product.

    I agree that’s the main thing, but it’d be quite a cool novelty to see one actor cover all of Fleming’s territory somehow. It’d add a little more sentiment for the viewers I think. I’d love to see a talented youngblood begin in Ian Fleming’s CR, go through all of it and end as an older spy with TMWTGG.

    Considering there are Bond fans that don’t even care for/haven’t read the novels, this idea, which crops up time and time again doesn’t seem viable to me. Commercially it’s a really hard sell and at the end of the day that’s what it comes down to.

    I know - that’s why I said it’s probably not going to happen. Just my dream scenario.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 17,744
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I am not a huge fan of the idea though, but I'm almost certain it will happen.
    I very much hope this doesn't happen. I just can't stomach Nolan doing Bond.

    I know, me too. Don’t get me down necessarily.

    It's best to be prepared. :)

    I won't be surprised if it happens, but I'm unlikely to be onboard with that film if it does. Outside Memento – and to a degree even that one – I find his films a massive chore to get through.

    Birdleson wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I am not a huge fan of the idea though, but I'm almost certain it will happen.
    I very much hope this doesn't happen. I just can't stomach Nolan doing Bond.

    I know, me too. Don’t get me down necessarily.

    It's best to be prepared. :)

    If he really loves the character, and wants to do a one off, to put his spin on Bond; I'd probably be okay with that. He's made some decent films (and some I thought were silly). What I fear with Nolan is another damned "arc" of some kind; some new direction that is meant to encompass multiple films. That, I do not want. No more expanded storylines.

    Ugh, expanded storylines is the worst case scenario, IMO. The fact that the films were standalones was one of the reasons I liked them in the first place.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I disagree. Yes, as a film series is hard to sell, but an HBO or AMC series that sticks to the novels, running 6 to 8 years (say approximately two novels per season, maybe three two hour or six hourlong episodes per novel; that’s a six to 12 episode season)? That’s a goldmine. Christ, it’s been done successfully with Le Carre novels, you do it with Bond and, provided the quality is there, I’d wager you’re hitting SOPRANOS or BREAKING BAD numbers. It’s built in name recognition. How many fans were familiar with the GAME OF THRONE novels before the television series began? Not a notable fraction compared to the viewing audience. Any of the major players (those mentioned, Netflix, Prime, etc) would kill for that package; ready made source material to boot. Period pieces, from westerns to Victorian England to ‘20s gangstersland and beyond, have been phenomenally successful in that format, with little to no public recognition beforehand. I think a JAMES BOND, 007 series has a strong potential to be the biggest thing on television while it airs.
    And if it’s still a hit at the end of the run, adapt CS, as well.

    But neither Sopranos, Breaking Bad, nor GOT were running in parallel with a cinematic incarnation. Industry people I’ve spoken to about this tend to feel, as I do, that it muddies the IP. The reason Bond remains one of the most valuable is precisely because it hasn’t splintered and inevitably watered down its value. Unlike most IP’s out there Bond is quite unique as he is the IP where most properties are ‘worlds’ that lend themselves to expansion.

    I still personally don’t think there’s a huge appetite for it, which isn’t to say they couldn’t make it work - they could - but commercially I don’t see it stacking up for them in the long term.
  • The television series could work if the films go into, say, an 8 or 10-year hiatus.

    One example is the Young Indiana Jones series, which occupied the Indy landscape in the early 1990s. Eventually, WB got back to making films. Sherlock Holmes has of course had dozens of adaptations in both formats, even of the same stories.

    A 60-year run of total EON control over the product (save a couple of rogue films) is an exception legacy. Maybe add a Nolan or Villeneuve trilogy to that in this new decade. But surely Fleming's novels deserve revisiting on the screen (big or small) set in their original period. I think enough time has passed that it wouldn't impact the original films' identity.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 12,837
    Where I want it to go: not too bothered as long as the films are good and they set themselves apart from the Craig era (I'm a fan but change is good). Standalone missions again would be cool. Having a story arc felt fresh when CR/QoS came out but we've had a few films of that now so it might feel more novel to swing back the other way.

    Where I think it will go: I genuinely don't think it'll be massively different to be honest. I think those hoping for a return to the Brosnan era will be disappointed. I think they'll still have the same sort of arty, prestigious name feel, the next guy might play it a bit lighter but I think he'll still be a layered character, and there will still be more character drama than in the other films.

    I just hope they realise that you can have a fleshed out, real James Bond with an actual character arc and not have that arc specifically related to the mission he's on. Like in GF, the book, there's that stuff about him struggling with killing and wondering if he's going soft. But that's just something that's going on while he's on the mission. It isn't because the Mexican he killed was actually an old friend or his long lost cousin or some bollocks.

    Basically, I think more character stuff can only ever be a good thing, but the films being personal doesn't mean the mission always has to be personal.

    SP came close to be fair. I loved that we had the fleshed out and real seeming Craig Bond on the next stage of his character arc (now growing tired/disillusioned of killing), but in a film with a bulletproof gadget packed Aston Martin and a scrap with a massive henchman on an implausibly old school train whilst wearing a tuxedo. You can wrap the character stuff up in an old school Flemingesque adventure. Bond having character doesn't mean the film itself has to be dour and gritty and it shouldn't mean the mission itself is related to him personally (that's where SP fumbled it, it was all going so well until Brofeld).
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I disagree. Yes, as a film series is hard to sell, but an HBO or AMC series that sticks to the novels, running 6 to 8 years (say approximately two novels per season, maybe three two hour or six hourlong episodes per novel; that’s a six to 12 episode season)? That’s a goldmine. Christ, it’s been done successfully with Le Carre novels, you do it with Bond and, provided the quality is there, I’d wager you’re hitting SOPRANOS or BREAKING BAD numbers. It’s built in name recognition. How many fans were familiar with the GAME OF THRONE novels before the television series began? Not a notable fraction compared to the viewing audience. Any of the major players (those mentioned, Netflix, Prime, etc) would kill for that package; ready made source material to boot. Period pieces, from westerns to Victorian England to ‘20s gangstersland and beyond, have been phenomenally successful in that format, with little to no public recognition beforehand. I think a JAMES BOND, 007 series has a strong potential to be the biggest thing on television while it airs.
    And if it’s still a hit at the end of the run, adapt CS, as well.

    I hear you. I wonder if such a concept (and HBO would be ideal) would work concurrently with the film series. Almost certainly the films would not want to adapt the same books/characters as the TV series...and we're in a bit of a gray area with Blofeld et al there now.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2020 Posts: 16,344
    I think the issue has always been it's been quite prohibitively expensive to do most of the Bond novels in period (how do you dress those locations, get those cars?) but I guess Netflix-type stuff can do it nowadays. The only other problem is that you still have to adapt the novels: they won't be exactly as they were on the page, and folks would complain about that. Plus I think the BBC radio adaptations have shown that quite a lot of them were pretty recognisable in their movie form, and the movies were better! :)
    64's Goldfinger has a similar but better plot than the novel, and when you strip out Barry's music, Adam's designs, Connery's acting... you're kind of just left with something similar... but worse. I'd just watch the film every time.
    :)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It would simply be a different interpretation.

    It would, yes. But most likely worse! :) They made those choices and hired those Oscar-winning creatives for a reason. And would Goldfinger set in 1959 really feel all that different to us in the 21st century than Goldfinger set in 1964?
    I do find the Toby Stephens adaptations interesting because they make you appreciate what Eon added to these stories.
  • I've always thought a TV series period piece adapting the books could work, and the difference in setting and lack of cinematic Bond iconography would differentiate it enough for it to run parallel to the films without any issues. Franchises do that now anyway don't they. There was that Batman TV show that had nothing to do with the Nolan films or the Ben Affleck ones.

    But I don't think EON would allow it. We were talking in the radio adaptations thread about why they weren't available comercially, and whether it'd be a good idea to do original audio dramas with the old Bond actors. A member on here revealed that a commercial audio drama company that do stuff like Doctor Who audios with the old actors wanted to do Bond. They were going to adapt FRWL and had contracts ready and everything, but EON got cold feet at the last minute because they were worried it'd hurt DVD sales of the films. That's the only reason they were able to do the radio adaptations, they're just radio, no commercial release.

    If that's how they feel about something as niche as audio dramas that would only appeal to massive nerds like us, then I really doubt they'd greenlight any sort of Bond TV show.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It would simply be a different interpretation.

    That’s why it’s a difficult sell, in my opinion. With something as recognisable as Bond, a global heritage brand, you’d have to give it a unique spin. Simply saying ‘we’re going to faithfully adapt the novels’ isn’t enough of a reason for the TV money men.

    With a lot of successful TV series, some you outlined above, they’re often a first time adaptation, a modern update (period or technology), or begin as a one-off with a unique authorial voice.

    The latest BBC version of Dracula is pretty typical of how these things work.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 2020 Posts: 16,344
    RC7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It would simply be a different interpretation.

    That’s why it’s a difficult sell, in my opinion. With something as recognisable as Bond, a global heritage brand, you’d have to give it a unique spin. Simply saying ‘we’re going to faithfully adapt the novels’ isn’t enough of a reason for the TV money men.

    The money men would probably be fine with it as it'd be pretty sure to sell! :)
    But yeah, I think creatively there isn't much there, and even the fans who want it would probably watch a couple and realise they prefer the films!
    :)
    Fleming's novels are great because of the prose and the pure pleasure of reading them: stripping that away and putting them on the small screen without the witty lines and beautiful sets and music of the films means you kind of have the worst of both worlds and the strengths of neither.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited January 2020 Posts: 1,165
    Solution: Animate it.

    Done in the style of Mike Mignola I think would be quite striking, and not childish.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    Yeah okay: I like that idea! :)
    Could be nicely ghoulish and sadistic in that way Fleming liked. Very Aeon Flux
    :D
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Minion wrote: »
    Solution: Animate it.

    Done in the style of Mike Mignola I think would be quite striking, and not childish.


    An adult orientated animated James Bond would be very welcome.

    A mouth watering prospect considering the Fleming novels could all be faithfully adapted....
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,604
    If EON were to make a continuation storyline well, it should be started with Raymond Benson’s Union trilogy. Make a few minor changes, film them back to back to back, release them within a year of each other. Simple, just be careful of legal rights.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 11,425
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It’s probably a long shot, but the best thing that could happen moving forward is getting super faithful adaptations of the Fleming novels set in the right time and everything. Imagine getting one perfect actor for it and them being able to do every one of Fleming’s Bond stories, in a miniseries or something. It’d be too good to be true.

    This would be great and I'd be happy if EON focused on this for 5 years instead of the films. A period set tv series using all the original books in chronological order. Awesome.

    HBO or Netflix would be the obvious partners.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That's what I'm saying.

    How would you feel if they did it but made the transitions from novel to novel fluid, perhaps seeding future events? For example it’s called ‘James Bond of the Secret Service’ and begins with the CR operation but future elements are seeded, if only in short snippets of conversation or actions, Bond picks up a newspaper featuring a article on Hugo Drax, for example. Or would you want it by the book, so to speak?
  • Posts: 17,744
    Minion wrote: »
    Solution: Animate it.

    Done in the style of Mike Mignola I think would be quite striking, and not childish.


    That'll be like Archer, only serious.

    I'd watch that.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    Birdleson wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That's what I'm saying.

    How would you feel if they did it but made the transitions from novel to novel fluid, perhaps seeding future events? For example it’s called ‘James Bond of the Secret Service’ and begins with the CR operation but future elements are seeded, if only in short snippets of conversation or actions, Bond picks up a newspaper featuring a article on Hugo Drax, for example. Or would you want it by the book, so to speak?

    Not by the book, that’s just dull, but a more faithful adaptation. Your scenario would work fine for me.

    One person’s ‘faithful’ is another’s ‘sacrilege’ though.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    mtm wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That's what I'm saying.

    How would you feel if they did it but made the transitions from novel to novel fluid, perhaps seeding future events? For example it’s called ‘James Bond of the Secret Service’ and begins with the CR operation but future elements are seeded, if only in short snippets of conversation or actions, Bond picks up a newspaper featuring a article on Hugo Drax, for example. Or would you want it by the book, so to speak?

    Not by the book, that’s just dull, but a more faithful adaptation. Your scenario would work fine for me.

    One person’s ‘faithful’ is another’s ‘sacrilege’ though.

    If they do it for TV, they should get Matt Weiner.
  • Posts: 17,744
    echo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That's what I'm saying.

    How would you feel if they did it but made the transitions from novel to novel fluid, perhaps seeding future events? For example it’s called ‘James Bond of the Secret Service’ and begins with the CR operation but future elements are seeded, if only in short snippets of conversation or actions, Bond picks up a newspaper featuring a article on Hugo Drax, for example. Or would you want it by the book, so to speak?

    Not by the book, that’s just dull, but a more faithful adaptation. Your scenario would work fine for me.

    One person’s ‘faithful’ is another’s ‘sacrilege’ though.

    If they do it for TV, they should get Matt Weiner.

    Definitely!
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,604
    echo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That's what I'm saying.

    How would you feel if they did it but made the transitions from novel to novel fluid, perhaps seeding future events? For example it’s called ‘James Bond of the Secret Service’ and begins with the CR operation but future elements are seeded, if only in short snippets of conversation or actions, Bond picks up a newspaper featuring a article on Hugo Drax, for example. Or would you want it by the book, so to speak?

    Not by the book, that’s just dull, but a more faithful adaptation. Your scenario would work fine for me.

    One person’s ‘faithful’ is another’s ‘sacrilege’ though.

    If they do it for TV, they should get Matt Weiner.

    Definitely!

    Yes but to bad he got in trouble.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2017/11/09/mad-men-creator-matthew-weiner-accused-harassment-former-writer-kater-gordon/850454001/
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 17,744
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    That's what I'm saying.

    How would you feel if they did it but made the transitions from novel to novel fluid, perhaps seeding future events? For example it’s called ‘James Bond of the Secret Service’ and begins with the CR operation but future elements are seeded, if only in short snippets of conversation or actions, Bond picks up a newspaper featuring a article on Hugo Drax, for example. Or would you want it by the book, so to speak?

    Not by the book, that’s just dull, but a more faithful adaptation. Your scenario would work fine for me.

    One person’s ‘faithful’ is another’s ‘sacrilege’ though.

    If they do it for TV, they should get Matt Weiner.

    Definitely!

    Yes but to bad he got in trouble.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2017/11/09/mad-men-creator-matthew-weiner-accused-harassment-former-writer-kater-gordon/850454001/

    Oh, hadn't heard about this.

    There are other great producers to pick from though, should it happen at some point.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 3,327
    mtm wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It would simply be a different interpretation.

    It would, yes. But most likely worse! :) They made those choices and hired those Oscar-winning creatives for a reason. And would Goldfinger set in 1959 really feel all that different to us in the 21st century than Goldfinger set in 1964?
    I do find the Toby Stephens adaptations interesting because they make you appreciate what Eon added to these stories.

    I think if this were to ever happen, it would be pointless remaking the faithful adapted novels, which are pretty much set in the time they were written anyway (Dr. No, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS). It wouldn't give us anything that different.

    Which begs me to ask the question yet again - why don't EON just use up every last part of the books now that hasn't already been used, to put this finally to bed (we all know now what books they are - DAF, MR, TSWLM, YOLT and TMWTGG).

    Under Cubby's watch, I think this is what he originally planned going forward, as Maibaum was at work nicely adapting the Fleming leftovers in the 80's, starting with FYEO, then OP, then TLD, and finally LTK.

    Fleming's LALD is a perfect example of a novel that has now been used to death - first with the film itself (70's trend, loosely based, using mainly characters and locations), then key leftover scenes used in FYEO and LTK.

    I panned out in another thread how these leftover books could easily be incorporated and used over at least 3 further films - a storyline cleverly using both DAF and MR for the first film, then the next film using TSWLM and YOLT, and the final film with TMWTGG (continuing on from where YOLT ended).

    This could all be easily plotted out over a 3 part arc triology, as we know this floats EON's boat these days, instead of struggling with original scripts by committee that are usually fairly dire in comparison to anything Fleming wrote.
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