Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    edited August 2023 Posts: 1,101
    Look at this atrocity.

    @AstonLotus would approve this.
  • Posts: 1,970
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    It's arguably time for Michael G. Wilson to retire. It feels like only Barbara wants to run the show now.

    It doesn't feel like Barbara wants to run the show either.

    This franchise is her families legacy. I doubt she actually feels that way.

    She has now been in charge of the series longer than her dad was and has only put out 9 films in 28 years. Her dad put out 16 films in 27 years. IMO she doesn't have the drive to make these movies as fast as her dad did.

    Not to mention a lot of the delays in the Craig era were down to circumstances out of EON’s control.

    2015-2019 Eon was fully in control and has no reason to delay in that gap
  • fjdinardo wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    It's arguably time for Michael G. Wilson to retire. It feels like only Barbara wants to run the show now.

    It doesn't feel like Barbara wants to run the show either.

    This franchise is her families legacy. I doubt she actually feels that way.

    She has now been in charge of the series longer than her dad was and has only put out 9 films in 28 years. Her dad put out 16 films in 27 years. IMO she doesn't have the drive to make these movies as fast as her dad did.

    Not to mention a lot of the delays in the Craig era were down to circumstances out of EON’s control.

    2015-2019 Eon was fully in control and has no reason to delay in that gap

    EON began working on what would become NTTD in early 2016. Plus don’t forget they had Danny Boyle attached as director for most of 2018 before they hired Fukunaga later that year. So they weren’t sitting around doing nothing during that gap.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Also their deal with Sony expired, which meant they had to shop for a new production company which eventually lead to the announcement with Universal in 2017.

    And just because Cubby churned out 16 films like a sausage factory for 27 years doesn’t mean his children were obligated to copy that exact amount within the same time frame. I’m sure Eon would have liked to have done a few extra films if circumstances didn’t prevent them. I’m sure they would have been happy with a Bond 23 in 2010 rather than 2012. They certainly would have preferred a Bond 25 in 2019 rather than 2021.

    What’s Mike and Barbara’s excuse now? There’s two strikes happening right now. Complaining that they’re not moving fast enough right now is just pathetic fan entitlement.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    @MakeshiftPython I feel your frustration, but we're all just going in circles here.
    There will always be a group of fans who feel they're being cheated by EON, and then another group of fans who will wait patiently for the next film.
    Trying to get either group to agree is futile. Just don't let it get you to down, it's not worth it.
  • Posts: 4,166
    Look at this atrocity.

    @AstonLotus would approve this.

    God, what a cringey video.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,649
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    It's arguably time for Michael G. Wilson to retire. It feels like only Barbara wants to run the show now.

    It doesn't feel like Barbara wants to run the show either.

    This franchise is her families legacy. I doubt she actually feels that way.

    She has now been in charge of the series longer than her dad was and has only put out 9 films in 28 years. Her dad put out 16 films in 27 years. IMO she doesn't have the drive to make these movies as fast as her dad did.

    You can't be serious and we can't have this Barbara-bashing conversation every time one of you forgets we have 25 films and dozens of books to enjoy while we wait for the next one. Relax.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2023 Posts: 3,789
    For me, I wished the plot of the next Bond film would took place in North Korea again, they've failed in Die Another Day, but I think they could make it this time.

    Most Bond films tackled Political issues and to the lesser extent, Communism for example of how they've portrayed Russia, tackled the likes of Afghanistan (taliban), Nazis and Germans, so seeing North Korea again (probably the most dangerous country of them all), would be interesting.

    Probably China too, but North Korea hits on so many levels like Political, Cold War-esque, military.

    Maybe make it more like The Living Daylights short story, maybe with a different title:

    Have Bond rescue, for example, a British tourist/blogger or a reporter/journalist that will face a death row in North Korea, and Bond was sent to get him/her out of the country, maybe have also a North Korean agent as a villainess (not a western, but a pure Korean).

    If the short story showed Bond saving an agent from assassination in East Berlin, here, make it Bond saving a tourist/journalist from a death row in North Korea.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    LucknFate wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    It's arguably time for Michael G. Wilson to retire. It feels like only Barbara wants to run the show now.

    It doesn't feel like Barbara wants to run the show either.

    This franchise is her families legacy. I doubt she actually feels that way.

    She has now been in charge of the series longer than her dad was and has only put out 9 films in 28 years. Her dad put out 16 films in 27 years. IMO she doesn't have the drive to make these movies as fast as her dad did.

    You can't be serious and we can't have this Barbara-bashing conversation every time one of you forgets we have 25 films and dozens of books to enjoy while we wait for the next one. Relax.

    Hear! Hear!

    Most of the time it's willful ignorance so that frustrated fans can scream at someone.

    There are enough people on this site, who have read and understand the film industry, and a few who actually work in it, that have provided glimpses into the challenges of making a film (let alone a $250 million tent pole movie); but the angry fan refuses to listen and will continue shrieking at the clouds in the sky....
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited August 2023 Posts: 6,304
    Some of us appreciate that BB and MGW have kept it in the family and have not sold out to a studio. Look at the Marvel and Star Wars fatigue, which is what we would likely end up with if the family gave up control. A studio can't help exploiting its IP; it's what they are designed to do.

    YMMV. Personally I'd rather have a nice craft cocktail once in a while than a series of watered-down beers...
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    First post here in ages.
    I feel like hiring a good actor and making a good Bond film won’t be enough this time around.
    Nowadays it is all about the hype. White male driven franchises are suffering and that demographic is getting older.
    EoN must renovate the franchise after decades of Craig playing the “old spy” in a brave new world part but how?
    How to conciliate a film true to Bond’s spirit and legacy within the current world sensibilities with a billion or so dollar hit?
    NTTD did great at the global boxoffice given the circumstances but that was mainly built on tue film Craig’s last outing as Bond.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 1,101
    matt_u wrote: »
    First post here in ages.
    I feel like hiring a good actor and making a good Bond film won’t be enough this time around.
    Nowadays it is all about the hype. White male driven franchises are suffering and that demographic is getting older.
    EoN must renovate the franchise after decades of Craig playing the “old spy” in a brave new world part but how?
    How to conciliate a film true to Bond’s spirit and legacy within the current world sensibilities with a billion or so dollar hit?
    NTTD did great at the global boxoffice given the circumstances but that was mainly built on tue film Craig’s last outing as Bond.

    Bond has always been able to adapt to the current times, it shouldn't be too much of a big deal.
    But nowadays IT IS.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited August 2023 Posts: 693
    The delays are due to the producers seeking out the latest trendy Oscar bait actors and directors who all want to do their own "thing" with Bond instead of hiring session filmmakers (Campbell, Hamilton, Spottiswoode) or in-house talent (Hunt, Glen) to make these movies. They went through 5 or 6 directors and a ton of screenwriters with NTTD before settling on Fukunaga. Yet, the increased development times and addition of prestige talents have not resulted in better Bond movies because the producers have forgotten that Bond movies are supposed to be action-adventures, not prestige dramas.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2023 Posts: 16,418
    They got a kind of renta-director in for QoS and made a pretty weak film; then got a great director in for the one after, and it was way way better, and earned lots more money too. So I'd say keep doing what you're doing; get really good people in to make these things, just like they always used to. Remember when Cubby got the Oscar bait director of an Oscar/BAFTA best picture nominated film to make one of the Connerys; then he came back to make two of the biggest and best? Good work Cubby, good idea.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Yeah. Lewis Gilbert was arguably the most auteur driven of the Cubby era, and it took sixteen years for Eon to finally top it at the box office. I do wonder how long it’ll take Eon to top SKYFALL.
  • Posts: 1,993
    @matt_u White male driven franchises are suffering and that demographic is getting older. As an older white male, I'd like to know more about this. Specifically, what franchises are you speaking of? Obviously the next Bond will be a younger man. But what else? What else will the new Bond need to be? What are the new sensibilities?
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 4,166
    It's worth saying that the way directors become directors in the film industry has changed a lot since the Bond films began. You won't get an 'in-house' director like Hunt or Glen today because that sort of system where someone can go from being a 2nd AC to an editor and then, potentially, a director (all within a single studio as well) isn't really a thing anymore. Sure, you could get a director along the lines of a Michael Apted, Roger Spottiswoode or potentially Martin Campbell (ie. directors who learnt their craft by doing soap operas for TV or lower budget pulpy films, and slowly progressed to bigger studio films) and generally they'll be a safe pair of hands, but not always, and there's no guarantee such a director can elevate the material or indeed has the creative vision to make the film the producers want.

    Nowadays I think most directors either come through film schools or, increasingly so, start off by making their own stuff and getting opportunities from there. Rarely are there permanent in-house jobs for editors and those in the camera department, or indeed directors, and at this level they are more freelance based. So yeah, we'll probably see more 'distinct' and one could say 'prestiege' directors taking on Bond.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    slide_99 wrote: »
    The delays are due to the producers seeking out the latest trendy Oscar bait actors and directors who all want to do their own "thing" with Bond instead of hiring session filmmakers (Campbell, Hamilton, Spottiswoode) or in-house talent (Hunt, Glen) to make these movies. They went through 5 or 6 directors and a ton of screenwriters with NTTD before settling on Fukunaga. Yet, the increased development times and addition of prestige talents have not resulted in better Bond movies because the producers have forgotten that Bond movies are supposed to be action-adventures, not prestige dramas.

    You’re very critical of the producers and the films they’re putting together, so you must have seen NTTD by now, right @slide_99 ???

    You say they went through “five or six directors”, and “a ton of screenwriters” for NTTD. I’m very interested to hear who these five or six directors were, before settling on Fukunaga, and who the “ton” of screenwriters were.

    🙄
  • Posts: 1,394
    matt_u wrote: »
    First post here in ages.
    I feel like hiring a good actor and making a good Bond film won’t be enough this time around.
    Nowadays it is all about the hype. White male driven franchises are suffering and that demographic is getting older.
    EoN must renovate the franchise after decades of Craig playing the “old spy” in a brave new world part but how?
    How to conciliate a film true to Bond’s spirit and legacy within the current world sensibilities with a billion or so dollar hit?
    NTTD did great at the global boxoffice given the circumstances but that was mainly built on tue film Craig’s last outing as Bond.

    Yeah Top Gun:Maverick and SpiderMan:No Way Home really suffered due to those problematic white male leads…
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 693
    peter wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    The delays are due to the producers seeking out the latest trendy Oscar bait actors and directors who all want to do their own "thing" with Bond instead of hiring session filmmakers (Campbell, Hamilton, Spottiswoode) or in-house talent (Hunt, Glen) to make these movies. They went through 5 or 6 directors and a ton of screenwriters with NTTD before settling on Fukunaga. Yet, the increased development times and addition of prestige talents have not resulted in better Bond movies because the producers have forgotten that Bond movies are supposed to be action-adventures, not prestige dramas.

    You’re very critical of the producers and the films they’re putting together, so you must have seen NTTD by now, right @slide_99 ???

    You say they went through “five or six directors”, and “a ton of screenwriters” for NTTD. I’m very interested to hear who these five or six directors were, before settling on Fukunaga, and who the “ton” of screenwriters were.

    🙄

    I've said several times I've seen the majority of it by now. I don't have to watch every single frame of a movie to have an opinion on it. NTTD credits no less than four writers, plus uncredited rewrites from Scott Burns and Paul Haggis, not to mention the directors like Boyle, Villenueve, and Demange that were courted before they went with Fukunaga. This type of thing wouldn't be an issue if they made these movies the way they used to.
  • Posts: 1,970
    LucknFate wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    It's arguably time for Michael G. Wilson to retire. It feels like only Barbara wants to run the show now.

    It doesn't feel like Barbara wants to run the show either.

    This franchise is her families legacy. I doubt she actually feels that way.

    She has now been in charge of the series longer than her dad was and has only put out 9 films in 28 years. Her dad put out 16 films in 27 years. IMO she doesn't have the drive to make these movies as fast as her dad did.

    You can't be serious and we can't have this Barbara-bashing conversation every time one of you forgets we have 25 films and dozens of books to enjoy while we wait for the next one. Relax.

    I am very grateful for all we had and if the series ended today I would be satisfied. Its just frustrating sometimes the long waits we have
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Be patient.
  • Posts: 1,993
    Old spy in a brave new world? I don't see it. To be fair, thirteen or fourteen years older than he was in Casino Royale. What precisely is brave and new about the world in 2023 as opposed to 2006? Other than admitting he had no experience with the stealthy bird plane near the end of NTTD, Bond didn't strike me as a fish out of water in a complex world of new sensibilities.



  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    slide_99 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    The delays are due to the producers seeking out the latest trendy Oscar bait actors and directors who all want to do their own "thing" with Bond instead of hiring session filmmakers (Campbell, Hamilton, Spottiswoode) or in-house talent (Hunt, Glen) to make these movies. They went through 5 or 6 directors and a ton of screenwriters with NTTD before settling on Fukunaga. Yet, the increased development times and addition of prestige talents have not resulted in better Bond movies because the producers have forgotten that Bond movies are supposed to be action-adventures, not prestige dramas.

    You’re very critical of the producers and the films they’re putting together, so you must have seen NTTD by now, right @slide_99 ???

    You say they went through “five or six directors”, and “a ton of screenwriters” for NTTD. I’m very interested to hear who these five or six directors were, before settling on Fukunaga, and who the “ton” of screenwriters were.

    🙄

    I've said several times I've seen the majority of it by now. I don't have to watch every single frame of a movie to have an opinion on it. NTTD credits no less than four writers, plus uncredited rewrites from Scott Burns and Paul Haggis, not to mention the directors like Boyle, Villenueve, and Demange that were courted before they went with Fukunaga. This type of thing wouldn't be an issue if they made these movies the way they used to.

    @slide_99 you haven’t seen the film.

    I have feelings about the Mission series. I’ve seen plenty of clips from the new film, and I’ve read what the fans are saying, I’ve read reviews, and watched enough feedback on it. But I don’t go on a site and give my opinion of the film, because I haven’t actually watched it.

    It would be the height of hubris/arrogance to slam a film I haven’t seen.

    You said 5 or 6 directors were looked at before they settled on Fukunaga. They had one meeting, one, with Villeneuve after Boyle left, and they met once with Demange before a script was written for Bond 25; however, Demange has actually tried to hint that he never met with the producers… so who are these 5 or 6 directors that were looked at before settling on Fukunaga.

    It seems you not only don’t watch films, but you get information from the tabloid press.

    Haggis did not have any fingerprints on any script of B25. That was also tabloid garbage.

    You said there were tons of writers looked at. I’m very interested in hearing who these writers were.
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 4,166
    slide_99 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    The delays are due to the producers seeking out the latest trendy Oscar bait actors and directors who all want to do their own "thing" with Bond instead of hiring session filmmakers (Campbell, Hamilton, Spottiswoode) or in-house talent (Hunt, Glen) to make these movies. They went through 5 or 6 directors and a ton of screenwriters with NTTD before settling on Fukunaga. Yet, the increased development times and addition of prestige talents have not resulted in better Bond movies because the producers have forgotten that Bond movies are supposed to be action-adventures, not prestige dramas.

    You’re very critical of the producers and the films they’re putting together, so you must have seen NTTD by now, right @slide_99 ???

    You say they went through “five or six directors”, and “a ton of screenwriters” for NTTD. I’m very interested to hear who these five or six directors were, before settling on Fukunaga, and who the “ton” of screenwriters were.

    🙄

    I've said several times I've seen the majority of it by now. I don't have to watch every single frame of a movie to have an opinion on it. NTTD credits no less than four writers, plus uncredited rewrites from Scott Burns and Paul Haggis, not to mention the directors like Boyle, Villenueve, and Demange that were courted before they went with Fukunaga. This type of thing wouldn't be an issue if they made these movies the way they used to.

    For what it's worth if you look at a film like TSWLM there were at least 6 writers commissioned to write versions of the script, and that's not even including the two who were officially credited in the end. DN has three credited writers, and we know of at least one additional writer who worked on it who wasn't credited due to leaving the project early. Several directors were presumably approached for both movies before they went with their choices. So it's not unusual for the Bond series really.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    007HallY wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    The delays are due to the producers seeking out the latest trendy Oscar bait actors and directors who all want to do their own "thing" with Bond instead of hiring session filmmakers (Campbell, Hamilton, Spottiswoode) or in-house talent (Hunt, Glen) to make these movies. They went through 5 or 6 directors and a ton of screenwriters with NTTD before settling on Fukunaga. Yet, the increased development times and addition of prestige talents have not resulted in better Bond movies because the producers have forgotten that Bond movies are supposed to be action-adventures, not prestige dramas.

    You’re very critical of the producers and the films they’re putting together, so you must have seen NTTD by now, right @slide_99 ???

    You say they went through “five or six directors”, and “a ton of screenwriters” for NTTD. I’m very interested to hear who these five or six directors were, before settling on Fukunaga, and who the “ton” of screenwriters were.

    🙄

    I've said several times I've seen the majority of it by now. I don't have to watch every single frame of a movie to have an opinion on it. NTTD credits no less than four writers, plus uncredited rewrites from Scott Burns and Paul Haggis, not to mention the directors like Boyle, Villenueve, and Demange that were courted before they went with Fukunaga. This type of thing wouldn't be an issue if they made these movies the way they used to.

    For what it's worth if you look at a film like TSWLM there were at least 6 writers commissioned to write versions of the script, and that's not even including the two who were officially credited in the end. DN has three credited writers, and we know of at least one additional writer who worked on it who wasn't credited due to leaving the project early. Several directors were presumably approached for both movies before they went with their choices.

    In most modern mainstream tentpole films there could be 12-15 writers (from conception to shooting script); script doctors are hired over and over. It’s a very usual process, but @slide_99 needs to blame someone, hasn’t watched a film he’s highly critical of, and speaks as an authority on how films are made, or should be made.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    First post here in ages.
    I feel like hiring a good actor and making a good Bond film won’t be enough this time around.
    Nowadays it is all about the hype. White male driven franchises are suffering and that demographic is getting older.
    EoN must renovate the franchise after decades of Craig playing the “old spy” in a brave new world part but how?
    How to conciliate a film true to Bond’s spirit and legacy within the current world sensibilities with a billion or so dollar hit?
    NTTD did great at the global boxoffice given the circumstances but that was mainly built on tue film Craig’s last outing as Bond.

    Yeah Top Gun:Maverick and SpiderMan:No Way Home really suffered due to those problematic white male leads…

    Maverick is clearly the exception but it was a perfectly made legacy sequel to the biggest hit Tom Cruise ever starred in.
    Spider-Man is popular literally everywhere so it doesn’t count.
    This topic is something being discussed by box-office analysts, at least regarding the US market. Just look at the movies that broke out and bombed post pandemic and it is clear that old franchises are suffering.
    Speaking about the US, white people are also less inclined to go to the theaters than latinos, asians and even black costumers post Covid. But that’s something that already started before the pandemic. In 2019, Latinos made up 26% of frequent moviegoers but only 18% of the population, according to the MPA. White moviegoers, who represented 61% of the population, made up 55% of frequent moviegoers. Asians made up 7% of frequent moviegoers in 2019 while representing 6% of the population.
    The worst thing that can happen to Bond is a Dial of Destiny situation but even a Dead Reckoning outcome would be a disaster.
    I think they need an A-list director or a more popular actor playing the part this time around to kick off the new era.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    It all starts with the script.

    Get the story “right”, and build out from there.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Old spy in a brave new world? I don't see it. To be fair, thirteen or fourteen years older than he was in Casino Royale. What precisely is brave and new about the world in 2023 as opposed to 2006? Other than admitting he had no experience with the stealthy bird plane near the end of NTTD, Bond didn't strike me as a fish out of water in a complex world of new sensibilities.



    Just look at Dead Reckoning.
    Coming out after Cruise being a global boxoffice juggernaut last year, stellar reviews, stellar audience scores and yet it will make less than QOS without even taking into account the huge inflation rates.
    Thinking the market landscape and audiences interests didn’t change that much compared to 2006 is at least weird.
    NTTD did great given the circumstances but it was literally saved by the UK, Germany and northern EU countries.
    Bond aficionados are getting older and the spy genre is suffering.
    They need to find a way to appeal younger audiences with the new one, firstly.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,418
    Mission's relative lack of performance is a bit baffling though; I'm not quite sure what's gone wrong there. I presume they're doing lots of research into it and I'd love to know what they come up with.
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