Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 16,154
    Just thought I'd chime in with my two cents:

    I want Bond to chase women and get laid.
  • Posts: 1,979
    peter wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I rather watch something like The man from UNCLE than a puritan James Bond.

    Agreed.

    This is such an odd sub-conversation… does anyone actually think James Bond will be a “puritan”, or is this merely frustrations manifesting itself?

    No, you’re not going to get the Swinging 60s Bond (culminating with Lazenby-Bond sleeping with everything that moved), nor will we get the 70s Bond , nor early to mid 80s geriatric Bond sleeping with women young enough to be his granddaughter… we will likely get something akin to TLD/Craig type romances, where the attraction and need for pleasure via sex is a mutual benefit for both parties (and no, I can’t see EoN throwing Bond another great love any time soon)…

    Exaggeration. Nobody thinks Bond will literally become a Puritan. In what film(s) were attraction and 'mutual benefit' absent?
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited October 2023 Posts: 4,619
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Just thought I'd chime in with my two cents:

    I want Bond to chase women and get laid.

    Same here. As long as they make it interesting and part of the story.
  • Posts: 16,154
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Just thought I'd chime in with my two cents:

    I want Bond to chase women and get laid.

    Same here. As long as they make it interesting and park of the story.

    Precisely.
  • edited October 2023 Posts: 1,334
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I rather watch something like The man from UNCLE than a puritan James Bond.

    Agreed.

    How are we to interpret a "puritan James Bond"?

    It's crystal clear.
  • Posts: 1,979
    "Why are there sex scenes in the Bond novels and films?" Perhaps then we can bring this discussion into sharper focus.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,619
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Just thought I'd chime in with my two cents:

    I want Bond to chase women and get laid.

    Same here. As long as they make it interesting and park of the story.

    Precisely.

    PART of the story. My mistake. Honestly, unlike the villains, there are no Bond women I'd like to see reinvented again.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,288
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Wasn’t Denise Richards a casting MGM
    pushed on Eon, like Terri Hatcher before? There’s always been assertions that Eon was cold to her when the press attacked her.

    She didn’t deserve her criticism. She did her job, and she was ok with it. The only people that I can see defending from the press would be Judi Dench and Daniel Craig, because it seems like they have always been their favorites. And it shows more than people realize.

    She had an impossible role, and even worse dialogue. She did a decent job.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    I rank TWINE at the bottom.

    Her casting isn’t an issue for me, but the part of Christmas Jones is superfluous. Eliminate the character entirely and you slightly improve the film by having Bond be alone at the end, mirroring OHMSS better.
  • Posts: 1,979
    Not for a second did I buy DR in the role. For me it comes down to this. Of all the actresses known and those unknown, she was the best choice? Even if every known actress wanted was unavailable, she was still the best?
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited October 2023 Posts: 3,787
    Denise Richards was convincing as a Nuclear Physicist, as Barbara Bach was, as a (Russian) Human Being or Tanya Roberts as a Government Geologist.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Not for a second did I buy DR in the role. For me it comes down to this. Of all the actresses known and those unknown, she was the best choice? Even if every known actress wanted was unavailable, she was still the best?

    Yes, there are a lot of actresses that could've pull the Scientist aspect off, but again, if that's how the role was written, even if you put Oscar Winning Actresses in there, there's no way it could've still worked.

    That Lara Croft outfit was even written in the script (described as "Khaki Sports Bra", similar shorts and heavy boots, in the script), she's also meant to be a French Polynesian, and described as a girl in her mid twenties, shortish hair and "hot right now", like really, there's no other way that character could've worked it would still turned out over the top as it is, Denise Richards just added a lot more insult to the injury, she just made the situation worse.

    Here's the full script, regarding Christmas Jones' description

    fyrlx0hir3561.png



  • Posts: 1,859
    I too want Bond to chase women and get laid, which I aspired to until I got married, of course. And Barbara Bach as Anya would be near the top of my list of great Bond partners.
  • Posts: 3,327
    I don't mind seeing Bond getting laid, although watching some of the Moore films now, I do find myself finding it occasionally a tad creepy. Connery had his moments too.

    I prefer Dalton's totally implausible escapade on the boat with a woman after falling from the jeep off Gibraltar. It's still cheesy, but less sleazy.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,787
    I don't mind seeing Bond getting laid, although watching some of the Moore films now, I do find myself finding it occasionally a tad creepy. Connery had his moments too.

    I prefer Dalton's totally implausible escapade on the boat with a woman after falling from the jeep off Gibraltar. It's still cheesy, but less sleazy.

    Yes, indeed.
    delfloria wrote: »
    And Barbara Bach as Anya would be near the top of my list of great Bond partners.

    And yes, as much as she's pretty incompetent (for a spy), monotone (one note) and wooden in her acting, she's sexy though, there's no denying in that.
  • Posts: 1,979
    Cheesy writing made worse by a weak actress.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    I prefer Dalton's totally implausible escapade on the boat with a woman after falling from the jeep off Gibraltar. It's still cheesy, but less sleazy.

    I do like how open ended it was with Dalton on that boat. Either he did the deed with her or he just enjoyed a drink with her. It’s not as explicit as Roger Moore unzipping a lady’s dress in the iceberg submarine.
  • Posts: 1,334
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    Denise Richards was convincing as a Nuclear Physicist, as Barbara Bach was, as a (Russian) Human Being or Tanya Roberts as a Government Geologist.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Not for a second did I buy DR in the role. For me it comes down to this. Of all the actresses known and those unknown, she was the best choice? Even if every known actress wanted was unavailable, she was still the best?

    Yes, there are a lot of actresses that could've pull the Scientist aspect off, but again, if that's how the role was written, even if you put Oscar Winning Actresses in there, there's no way it could've still worked.

    That Lara Croft outfit was even written in the script (described as "Khaki Sports Bra", similar shorts and heavy boots, in the script), she's also meant to be a French Polynesian, and described as a girl in her mid twenties, shortish hair and "hot right now", like really, there's no other way that character could've worked it would still turned out over the top as it is, Denise Richards just added a lot more insult to the injury, she just made the situation worse.

    Here's the full script, regarding Christmas Jones' description

    fyrlx0hir3561.png



    It works with Lara Croft.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,134
    Dr. Christmas Jones is one of the many, many problems I have with The World Is Not Enough.

    I did have a random thought the other day. Hopefully this doesn't play out.
    What if they decided to make Bond 26 a musical.
    Still in the same vein as a Bond story, and with action set pieces, but as a musical, with songs intertwined throughout. It would be unique to the series, and I think I would hate it. It would probably ruin the series to the point of no return. Still, you never know what goes through the heads of the people with the power and money.
    Personally I'm hoping we get a film similar in style of the debut of Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan and Daniel Craig.
    Big, bold and impressive! Remind everyone why Bond is still the best.

  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited October 2023 Posts: 680
    I'm not expecting anything too out of the box myself. Bond's survived this long for a reason. It doesn't need to be reinvented. Updated yes, but not a reinvention.

    I think for Bond 26 to be a success it just needs to distill all the things people have loved about the character and the series from the beginning and make it relevant to the 2020s.

    Obviously, all that's easier said than done, but the recipe is there. It's the execution that's the hard bit.
  • CharmianBondCharmianBond Pett Bottom, Kent
    edited October 2023 Posts: 557
    Benny wrote: »
    Dr. Christmas Jones is one of the many, many problems I have with The World Is Not Enough.

    I did have a random thought the other day. Hopefully this doesn't play out.
    What if they decided to make Bond 26 a musical.
    Still in the same vein as a Bond story, and with action set pieces, but as a musical, with songs intertwined throughout. It would be unique to the series, and I think I would hate it. It would probably ruin the series to the point of no return. Still, you never know what goes through the heads of the people with the power and money.
    Personally I'm hoping we get a film similar in style of the debut of Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan and Daniel Craig.
    Big, bold and impressive! Remind everyone why Bond is still the best.

    The Japanese have already done it with Casino Royale. I enjoyed it but it's certainly avant garde.

    I really like the musical number they have in the S3 Dalek episode of Dr Who, I totally think it would work having Bond interrupt a musical as part of the story.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    CrabKey wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    I rather watch something like The man from UNCLE than a puritan James Bond.

    Agreed.

    This is such an odd sub-conversation… does anyone actually think James Bond will be a “puritan”, or is this merely frustrations manifesting itself?

    No, you’re not going to get the Swinging 60s Bond (culminating with Lazenby-Bond sleeping with everything that moved), nor will we get the 70s Bond , nor early to mid 80s geriatric Bond sleeping with women young enough to be his granddaughter… we will likely get something akin to TLD/Craig type romances, where the attraction and need for pleasure via sex is a mutual benefit for both parties (and no, I can’t see EoN throwing Bond another great love any time soon)…

    Exaggeration. Nobody thinks Bond will literally become a Puritan. In what film(s) were attraction and 'mutual benefit' absent?

    @crabkey, I'm not sure what you're responding to?

    I was replying to a post where a member said he'd rather watch Man from Uncle rather than a puritan Bond.

    Another member agreed.

    I was questioning whether anyone really believed that Bond would ever be "puritan".

    And in what films were attraction and mutual benefit absent?

    Does Ms.Taro want to sleep with Bond? Not only should he be dead by the time he turns up at her place, but she's in fear of him, and, well, she has no other choice, but to sleep with him (but he's such a tremendous lover, that between rounds, she's as happy as a clam and doing her nails, so all is good). I don't think this was a genuinely mutual sexual transaction.

    The seduction of Pussy Galore is, at best, a ridiculous scene, at worse...

    Pam may be attracted to Bond, but the first time they become physical is because she's saving her job.

    And in the Roger Era, we have a film where he "seduces" a virgin by tricking her, and, as he got older, the women were seemingly looking more and more like they could be he is daughter (not including Octopussy).

    Now, I don't care how you feel about these scenes, my point was, they're images and scenes from the past that won't likely be played out ever again.

    That was my point, in case your post was directed at me.


  • Posts: 4,135
    Benny wrote: »
    Dr. Christmas Jones is one of the many, many problems I have with The World Is Not Enough.

    I did have a random thought the other day. Hopefully this doesn't play out.
    What if they decided to make Bond 26 a musical.
    Still in the same vein as a Bond story, and with action set pieces, but as a musical, with songs intertwined throughout. It would be unique to the series, and I think I would hate it. It would probably ruin the series to the point of no return. Still, you never know what goes through the heads of the people with the power and money.
    Personally I'm hoping we get a film similar in style of the debut of Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan and Daniel Craig.
    Big, bold and impressive! Remind everyone why Bond is still the best.

    An official EON Bond musical would be very weird. I suppose though that there are musical numbers in older, non-musical films (ie. film noirs) that could be similarly done for a future Bond film.
  • Posts: 1,334
    Bond has licence to kill. It's a not a good good guy. That's the whole point.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited October 2023 Posts: 8,395
    I'm not expecting anything too out of the box myself. Bond's survived this long for a reason. It doesn't need to be reinvented. Updated yes, but not a reinvention.

    I think for Bond 26 to be a success it just needs to distill all the things people have loved about the character and the series from the beginning and make it relevant to the 2020s.

    Fully agree with this. Casino royale was able to justify being so different because the last film ended with bond riding a tsunami to safety and picking diamonds out of halle berrys belly button in a secluded hut somewhere. This time around we've just come off bond, felix and brofeld being killed off in the same film, one if the biggest downers in the series, we don't need moody, deconstructionist bond back we need a revival of what made him great to begin with.

    People saying the later Craig films tried to steer back into the tropes, yes, and while he does an admiral job with some of the lines, the Sly, charismatic bond just isn't Craigs forte. To me it's like how they tried to toughen up Rogers Bond after Moonraker, he's not bad at it, but in truth it didn't really click into place until dalton came along.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 216
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    Denise Richards was convincing as a Nuclear Physicist, as Barbara Bach was, as a (Russian) Human Being or Tanya Roberts as a Government Geologist.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Not for a second did I buy DR in the role. For me it comes down to this. Of all the actresses known and those unknown, she was the best choice? Even if every known actress wanted was unavailable, she was still the best?

    Yes, there are a lot of actresses that could've pull the Scientist aspect off, but again, if that's how the role was written, even if you put Oscar Winning Actresses in there, there's no way it could've still worked.

    That Lara Croft outfit was even written in the script (described as "Khaki Sports Bra", similar shorts and heavy boots, in the script), she's also meant to be a French Polynesian, and described as a girl in her mid twenties, shortish hair and "hot right now", like really, there's no other way that character could've worked it would still turned out over the top as it is, Denise Richards just added a lot more insult to the injury, she just made the situation worse.

    Here's the full script, regarding Christmas Jones' description

    fyrlx0hir3561.png



    It works with Lara Croft.

    It was the nineties. We had accepted that being ‘hot’ was not anti-ethical to also being ‘smart’ and it that it was a choice. Kind of a sixties rerun thing, like much at the tail end of that decade.
    I ain’t big on Christmas Jones, or on Denise Richards, but it was of its time and no more inherently ridiculous or sexist than Bond getting out of the sea in his speedos.
    Bond himself is always sexualised, and that is something that increases as the franchise goes on — it is a mistake to stop also sexualising the ‘Bond Girl’, and the real sexism is in the opinion that characters like Jones are unrealistic, particularly in the context of a Bond movie.

    You need to sexy to balance out the violence, otherwise you may as well just go and watch whatever Hollywood Blockbuster is doing the rounds. Bond is British, and a particular kind of European even. Always has been, on page and screen, with screen being more balance tbh.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited October 2023 Posts: 3,787
    JustJames wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    Denise Richards was convincing as a Nuclear Physicist, as Barbara Bach was, as a (Russian) Human Being or Tanya Roberts as a Government Geologist.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Not for a second did I buy DR in the role. For me it comes down to this. Of all the actresses known and those unknown, she was the best choice? Even if every known actress wanted was unavailable, she was still the best?

    Yes, there are a lot of actresses that could've pull the Scientist aspect off, but again, if that's how the role was written, even if you put Oscar Winning Actresses in there, there's no way it could've still worked.

    That Lara Croft outfit was even written in the script (described as "Khaki Sports Bra", similar shorts and heavy boots, in the script), she's also meant to be a French Polynesian, and described as a girl in her mid twenties, shortish hair and "hot right now", like really, there's no other way that character could've worked it would still turned out over the top as it is, Denise Richards just added a lot more insult to the injury, she just made the situation worse.

    Here's the full script, regarding Christmas Jones' description

    fyrlx0hir3561.png



    It works with Lara Croft.

    It was the nineties. We had accepted that being ‘hot’ was not anti-ethical to also being ‘smart’ and it that it was a choice. Kind of a sixties rerun thing, like much at the tail end of that decade.
    I ain’t big on Christmas Jones, or on Denise Richards, but it was of its time and no more inherently ridiculous or sexist than Bond getting out of the sea in his speedos.
    Bond himself is always sexualised, and that is something that increases as the franchise goes on — it is a mistake to stop also sexualising the ‘Bond Girl’, and the real sexism is in the opinion that characters like Jones are unrealistic, particularly in the context of a Bond movie.

    You need to sexy to balance out the violence, otherwise you may as well just go and watch whatever Hollywood Blockbuster is doing the rounds. Bond is British, and a particular kind of European even. Always has been, on page and screen, with screen being more balance tbh.

    Bond being sexualized is accepted, since it's like a Red Sparrow type of thing, it involves Sexpionage, using sex for intelligence, that's alright, and the Bond films being sexualized is a fine thing for that.

    But Christmas Jones as a character is just silly and ridiculous, it's already there in the script that she's made that way, it's just pure cartoonish, almost Austin Powers territory type of camp, she's just there because???? I know her purpose regarding the plot, but her description was simply out of place, sure it's not being sexy (there are sexy professionals, just like Miss Universe candidates that were also professionals), but the way she's written like she's explicitly being sexy of wearing such an outfit that's not fitting for a workplace, that's just wrong.

    It makes Stacey Sutton more plausible as a State Geologist, because at least her outfits and the way she acted throughout the film really fits with what she was as a character, a Geologist, so, I don't expect her to be a fighter, so I don't get the criticisms regarding her shouting because she's a Geologist and she's a civilian, and there's Holly Goodhead, and she's also convincing as an Astrophysicist and a CIA Agent, and yet those women are beautiful and sexy too.

    It's one of the same reasons why I don't buy Anya Amasova as a tough KGB agent, one of the best Agents that Russia could offer, when in reality, she doesn't do anything, and I don't even for a second buy her killing just a mosquito, let alone punch a bad guy, she's more of a Domino type of Bond Girl to me, Barbara Bach just happened to made the situation more worse because she gave a bad performance, wooden acting.

    As for Denise Richards, well the description was a Scientist, and she played it like a sassy schoolgirl more than a Professional one, but is it her fault? No, she's just cast in such a badly written role.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    We need a development on Bond 26 desperately
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 216
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    JustJames wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    Denise Richards was convincing as a Nuclear Physicist, as Barbara Bach was, as a (Russian) Human Being or Tanya Roberts as a Government Geologist.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Not for a second did I buy DR in the role. For me it comes down to this. Of all the actresses known and those unknown, she was the best choice? Even if every known actress wanted was unavailable, she was still the best?

    Yes, there are a lot of actresses that could've pull the Scientist aspect off, but again, if that's how the role was written, even if you put Oscar Winning Actresses in there, there's no way it could've still worked.

    That Lara Croft outfit was even written in the script (described as "Khaki Sports Bra", similar shorts and heavy boots, in the script), she's also meant to be a French Polynesian, and described as a girl in her mid twenties, shortish hair and "hot right now", like really, there's no other way that character could've worked it would still turned out over the top as it is, Denise Richards just added a lot more insult to the injury, she just made the situation worse.

    Here's the full script, regarding Christmas Jones' description

    fyrlx0hir3561.png



    It works with Lara Croft.

    It was the nineties. We had accepted that being ‘hot’ was not anti-ethical to also being ‘smart’ and it that it was a choice. Kind of a sixties rerun thing, like much at the tail end of that decade.
    I ain’t big on Christmas Jones, or on Denise Richards, but it was of its time and no more inherently ridiculous or sexist than Bond getting out of the sea in his speedos.
    Bond himself is always sexualised, and that is something that increases as the franchise goes on — it is a mistake to stop also sexualising the ‘Bond Girl’, and the real sexism is in the opinion that characters like Jones are unrealistic, particularly in the context of a Bond movie.

    You need to sexy to balance out the violence, otherwise you may as well just go and watch whatever Hollywood Blockbuster is doing the rounds. Bond is British, and a particular kind of European even. Always has been, on page and screen, with screen being more balance tbh.

    Bond being sexualized is accepted, since it's like a Red Sparrow type of thing, it involves Sexpionage, using sex for intelligence, that's alright, and the Bond films being sexualized is a fine thing for that.

    But Christmas Jones as a character is just silly and ridiculous, it's already there in the script that she's made that way, it's just pure cartoonish, almost Austin Powers territory type of camp, she's just there because???? I know her purpose regarding the plot, but her description was simply out of place, sure it's not being sexy (there are sexy professionals, just like Miss Universe candidates that were also professionals), but the way she's written like she's explicitly being sexy of wearing such an outfit that's not fitting for a workplace, that's just wrong.

    It makes Stacey Sutton more plausible as a State Geologist, because at least her outfits and the way she acted throughout the film really fits with what she was as a character, a Geologist, so, I don't expect her to be a fighter, so I don't get the criticisms regarding her shouting because she's a Geologist and she's a civilian, and there's Holly Goodhead, and she's also convincing as an Astrophysicist and a CIA Agent, and yet those women are beautiful and sexy too.

    It's one of the same reasons why I don't buy Anya Amasova as a tough KGB agent, one of the best Agents that Russia could offer, when in reality, she doesn't do anything, and I don't even for a second buy her killing just a mosquito, let alone punch a bad guy, she's more of a Domino type of Bond Girl to me, Barbara Bach just happened to made the situation more worse because she gave a bad performance, wooden acting.

    As for Denise Richards, well the description was a Scientist, and she played it like a sassy schoolgirl more than a Professional one, but is it her fault? No, she's just cast in such a badly written role.

    She starts out in a hazmat suit, no?
    I think deciding what outfit suits a workplace has always been… difficult, and very subjective.
  • edited October 2023 Posts: 1,334
    Richards was not smart enough. Zeta Jones o Jolie were better options.

    It's like Sam Jones as Flash Gordon. He is not Christopher Reeve and you need someone like Reeve.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    We need a development on Bond 26 desperately

    Well, the actors Guild presented proposals to the studios yesterday.

    Meetings ended around five pm PST.

    Everyone now waits to see what the studios response is to these proposals.

    Six months of these strikes and counting....
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