Where does Bond go after Craig?

1398399401403404679

Comments

  • edited October 2023 Posts: 1,334
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Silva’s island as well has that vibe I think. Can easily imagine a Fleming villain living on a deserted island he himself has cleared out.

    Like I said, EON do understand the novels. They just go larger with these concepts.

    That's putting it mildly ;)

    Yes, very true! But hey, spectacle and a healthy dose of outlandish-ness are some of the things I suspect we all like about Bond.

    I don't know, people like realism too.

    They can do, but Bond is more heightened reality. Even in Fleming Bond would be near death but after wrestling a giant squid in a mad villain’s death maze.

    Yeah, but he doesn't yell like Tarzan ;)


  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,787
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Silva’s island as well has that vibe I think. Can easily imagine a Fleming villain living on a deserted island he himself has cleared out.

    Like I said, EON do understand the novels. They just go larger with these concepts.

    That's putting it mildly ;)

    Yes, very true! But hey, spectacle and a healthy dose of outlandish-ness are some of the things I suspect we all like about Bond.

    I don't know, people like realism too.

    They can do, but Bond is more heightened reality. Even in Fleming Bond would be near death but after wrestling a giant squid in a mad villain’s death maze.

    Yeah, but he doesn't yell like Tarzan ;)


    Wear a clown suit, a gorilla suit, and a hawaiian lei necklace, and even demanding a tiger to sit and a snake to hiss off.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    007HallY wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    .
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Silva’s island as well has that vibe I think. Can easily imagine a Fleming villain living on a deserted island he himself has cleared out.

    Like I said, EON do understand the novels. They just go larger with these concepts.

    That's putting it mildly ;)

    Yes, very true! But hey, spectacle and a healthy dose of outlandish-ness are some of the things I suspect we all like about Bond.

    Film is a visual medium, so they present something fantastical to the audience.

    The first Fleming novels were written in the 50s.

    The Second World War was just behind everyone.

    Travel wasn’t what it is now. Far easier for Fleming to transport the readers of his novels compared to how difficult it is for EoN to wow us today (I mean look at all the comments in these threads…)

    Oh yeah, agreed. Like I said I think EON know that fundamentally Fleming’s novels had that sense of heightened reality and even outlandish-ness to them. They do a great job at translating it to the screen.

    Agreed @007HallY ; sorry my post was more directed at Deke.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,289
    mtm wrote: »
    I do remember coming out of GoldenEye and being just slightly underwhelmed that it was so typical a Bond film though. I enjoyed it a lot and went to see it a few times, but after all the hype there was something slightly disappointing about it being just a Bond film somehow.

    What was new about GE was all the meta stuff: "sexist misogynist dinosaur," "the women you failed to protect," etc. That felt fresh, to a degree.

    But they doubled and tripled down on the meta references too much in subsequent films: "pump her for information," etc.

    Feirstein was a less witty version of Mankiewicz.
  • Posts: 1,859
    While watching LALD I was trying to get over Moore as the Saint. During Goldeneye I was trying to distance myself from Pierce being Remington Steele. Lazenby on the other hand was just James Bond. Regarding Craig, he too was just Bond though I had seen "Layer Cake". I'm hopping Eon can come up with another George or Daniel the next time around.

    During the release of NSNA and O I found Connery's effort to be more acceptable than the one that included all the jungle nonsense as well as Q and Bond arriving in a hot air balloon for the climax. I also had a fondness about seeing Felix in the field and being a part of the climax.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited October 2023 Posts: 8,395
    delfloria wrote: »
    While watching LALD I was trying to get over Moore as the Saint. During Goldeneye I was trying to distance myself from Pierce being Remington Steele. Lazenby on the other hand was just James Bond. Regarding Craig, he too was just Bond though I had seen "Layer Cake". I'm hopping Eon can come up with another George or Daniel the next time around.

    Or maybe just someone whose show you haven't heard of. ;))
  • Posts: 1,859
    delfloria wrote: »
    While watching LALD I was trying to get over Moore as the Saint. During Goldeneye I was trying to distance myself from Pierce being Remington Steele. Lazenby on the other hand was just James Bond. Regarding Craig, he too was just Bond though I had seen "Layer Cake". I'm hopping Eon can come up with another George or Daniel the next time around.

    Or maybe just someone whose show you haven't heard of. ;))

    These days that would not be hard. 5000 channels and nothing to watch but really old spy shows. BTW, who is this John Steed that was mentioned earlier?????????????
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    delfloria wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    While watching LALD I was trying to get over Moore as the Saint. During Goldeneye I was trying to distance myself from Pierce being Remington Steele. Lazenby on the other hand was just James Bond. Regarding Craig, he too was just Bond though I had seen "Layer Cake". I'm hopping Eon can come up with another George or Daniel the next time around.

    Or maybe just someone whose show you haven't heard of. ;))

    These days that would not be hard. 5000 channels and nothing to watch but really old spy shows. BTW, who is this John Steed that was mentioned earlier?????????????

    Whatever you do steer clear of gangs of London. ;)
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,787
    delfloria wrote: »
    While watching LALD I was trying to get over Moore as the Saint. During Goldeneye I was trying to distance myself from Pierce being Remington Steele. Lazenby on the other hand was just James Bond. Regarding Craig, he too was just Bond though I had seen "Layer Cake". I'm hopping Eon can come up with another George or Daniel the next time around.

    During the release of NSNA and O I found Connery's effort to be more acceptable than the one that included all the jungle nonsense as well as Q and Bond arriving in a hot air balloon for the climax. I also had a fondness about seeing Felix in the field and being a part of the climax.

    My thoughts, exactly.
  • Prediction: because of the arrival of artificial general intelligence, the Bond franchise as we know it will be over before the 3rd film of the next Bond actor.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,134
    Positive and optimistic.
    That’s the spirit.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Prediction: because of the arrival of artificial general intelligence, the Bond franchise as we know it will be over before the 3rd film of the next Bond actor.

    No offense, but I don't see this. I don't care how good AI is in 10 years, human beings are notoriously wary of new technology. As far as I'm aware, every instance of advanced deaging or recreations of younger actors from scratch thus far has been met with extreme skepticism. The idea that millions of people around the globe will be lining up in cinemas to watch a movie with all AI generated characters, let along scripts or direction in the next 10 years is bonkers if you ask me. Its one thing the technology existing to do it, but it's another for it to be socially accepted enough that the movie won't suffer a backlash from its use. As an example, technically speaking videogames could have gone fully digital and removed the disk drives decades ago, but there's still generations of users who see owning games physically as a valuable and important feature, so companies are forced to keep them or face a major backlash. People would feel shortchanged, and at least for the foreseeable future, a majority of the public would feel shortchanged watching a film with no real actors, especially a Bond movie which is older skewing to begin with. No company at the moment is gonna take a 200 million risk of replacing their actors and hoping people don't notice or care.
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 95
    I do think GE has that perfect blend of traditional with modern sensibilities.

    Also jumping back a bit, conceptually merging the Octopussy story with Blofeld I don't necessarily have a problem with but if you're gonna have him be a foster brother to Bond, it would've helped if he was the younger one in that relationship. Basically Scott should've been Blofeld and not Waltz, I'm sure he's lovely but I don't think he was right for the part.

    Andrew Scott has to be the worst actor that ever was in a Craig's Bond movie, though. I despise his acting when he makes those cartoonish evil faces, he reminds me of a Disney villain.
    I'd take Bro-field over Scott!Blofeld anytime.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited November 2023 Posts: 8,395
    I do think GE has that perfect blend of traditional with modern sensibilities.

    Also jumping back a bit, conceptually merging the Octopussy story with Blofeld I don't necessarily have a problem with but if you're gonna have him be a foster brother to Bond, it would've helped if he was the younger one in that relationship. Basically Scott should've been Blofeld and not Waltz, I'm sure he's lovely but I don't think he was right for the part.

    Andrew Scott has to be the worst actor that ever was in a Craig's Bond movie, though. I despise his acting when he makes those cartoonish evil faces, he reminds me of a Disney villain.
    I'd take Bro-field over Scott!Blofeld anytime.

    To be fair, I don't blame any of the actors, since it seems the director was really out to lunch and didn't want to be there beyond filming the worlds biggest explosion. the worst scene is when Madeline randomly decides she doesn't want to be with Bond anymore in London, the dialogue and acting there was atrociously bad.
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 95
    I mean, he was always bad, not just in Spectre.
    Look at the scene from Sherlock at 2:00.



    He makes these silly faces like he is a villain in an animated movie.

    Agreed about the Bond and Madeleine scene in London, that was pretty bad. But you can see that Craig and Seydoux do their best with shoddy material.
  • Posts: 1,334
    Prediction: because of the arrival of artificial general intelligence, the Bond franchise as we know it will be over before the 3rd film of the next Bond actor.

    No offense, but I don't see this. I don't care how good AI is in 10 years, human beings are notoriously wary of new technology. As far as I'm aware, every instance of advanced deaging or recreations of younger actors from scratch thus far has been met with extreme skepticism. The idea that millions of people around the globe will be lining up in cinemas to watch a movie with all AI generated characters, let along scripts or direction in the next 10 years is bonkers if you ask me. Its one thing the technology existing to do it, but it's another for it to be socially accepted enough that the movie won't suffer a backlash from its use. As an example, technically speaking videogames could have gone fully digital and removed the disk drives decades ago, but there's still generations of users who see owning games physically as a valuable and important feature, so companies are forced to keep them or face a major backlash. People would feel shortchanged, and at least for the foreseeable future, a majority of the public would feel shortchanged watching a film with no real actors, especially a Bond movie which is older skewing to begin with. No company at the moment is gonna take a 200 million risk of replacing their actors and hoping people don't notice or care.

    I don't know, Hollywood can make Super Mario movies all the time and they will make a lot of money.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,370
    I think Scott is pretty dreadful, yes. And I didn't rate him in Sherlock either.

    I always dream of the suggestion of getting Helen McCrory back from SF to play C. She would have been amazing.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited November 2023 Posts: 8,395
    Prediction: because of the arrival of artificial general intelligence, the Bond franchise as we know it will be over before the 3rd film of the next Bond actor.

    No offense, but I don't see this. I don't care how good AI is in 10 years, human beings are notoriously wary of new technology. As far as I'm aware, every instance of advanced deaging or recreations of younger actors from scratch thus far has been met with extreme skepticism. The idea that millions of people around the globe will be lining up in cinemas to watch a movie with all AI generated characters, let along scripts or direction in the next 10 years is bonkers if you ask me. Its one thing the technology existing to do it, but it's another for it to be socially accepted enough that the movie won't suffer a backlash from its use. As an example, technically speaking videogames could have gone fully digital and removed the disk drives decades ago, but there's still generations of users who see owning games physically as a valuable and important feature, so companies are forced to keep them or face a major backlash. People would feel shortchanged, and at least for the foreseeable future, a majority of the public would feel shortchanged watching a film with no real actors, especially a Bond movie which is older skewing to begin with. No company at the moment is gonna take a 200 million risk of replacing their actors and hoping people don't notice or care.

    I don't know, Hollywood can make Super Mario movies all the time and they will make a lot of money.

    Two points here

    1. Super Mario isn't operated by AI, but by human animators.

    2. You won't see Marios performance being nominated in the best actor category at the oscars alongside humans anytime soon, sadly.
  • Posts: 1,334
    Prediction: because of the arrival of artificial general intelligence, the Bond franchise as we know it will be over before the 3rd film of the next Bond actor.

    No offense, but I don't see this. I don't care how good AI is in 10 years, human beings are notoriously wary of new technology. As far as I'm aware, every instance of advanced deaging or recreations of younger actors from scratch thus far has been met with extreme skepticism. The idea that millions of people around the globe will be lining up in cinemas to watch a movie with all AI generated characters, let along scripts or direction in the next 10 years is bonkers if you ask me. Its one thing the technology existing to do it, but it's another for it to be socially accepted enough that the movie won't suffer a backlash from its use. As an example, technically speaking videogames could have gone fully digital and removed the disk drives decades ago, but there's still generations of users who see owning games physically as a valuable and important feature, so companies are forced to keep them or face a major backlash. People would feel shortchanged, and at least for the foreseeable future, a majority of the public would feel shortchanged watching a film with no real actors, especially a Bond movie which is older skewing to begin with. No company at the moment is gonna take a 200 million risk of replacing their actors and hoping people don't notice or care.

    I don't know, Hollywood can make Super Mario movies all the time and they will make a lot of money.

    Two points here

    1. Super Mario isn't operated by AI, but by human animators.

    2. You won't see Mario being nominated in the best actor category at the oscars alongside humans anytime soon, sadly.

    It's a cartoon and nobody cared. That's the point.

  • edited November 2023 Posts: 4,136
    Well I, for one, am looking forward to the AI generated reboot of James Bond Jr. Coming 2034…. probably….
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Prediction: because of the arrival of artificial general intelligence, the Bond franchise as we know it will be over before the 3rd film of the next Bond actor.

    No offense, but I don't see this. I don't care how good AI is in 10 years, human beings are notoriously wary of new technology. As far as I'm aware, every instance of advanced deaging or recreations of younger actors from scratch thus far has been met with extreme skepticism. The idea that millions of people around the globe will be lining up in cinemas to watch a movie with all AI generated characters, let along scripts or direction in the next 10 years is bonkers if you ask me. Its one thing the technology existing to do it, but it's another for it to be socially accepted enough that the movie won't suffer a backlash from its use. As an example, technically speaking videogames could have gone fully digital and removed the disk drives decades ago, but there's still generations of users who see owning games physically as a valuable and important feature, so companies are forced to keep them or face a major backlash. People would feel shortchanged, and at least for the foreseeable future, a majority of the public would feel shortchanged watching a film with no real actors, especially a Bond movie which is older skewing to begin with. No company at the moment is gonna take a 200 million risk of replacing their actors and hoping people don't notice or care.

    I don't know, Hollywood can make Super Mario movies all the time and they will make a lot of money.

    Two points here

    1. Super Mario isn't operated by AI, but by human animators.

    2. You won't see Mario being nominated in the best actor category at the oscars alongside humans anytime soon, sadly.

    It's a cartoon and nobody cared. That's the point.

    Nobody cared because it isn't AI generated. It was animated by humans just like Toy Story was in 1995, unless you think that's AI too.
  • Posts: 1,334
    Prediction: because of the arrival of artificial general intelligence, the Bond franchise as we know it will be over before the 3rd film of the next Bond actor.

    No offense, but I don't see this. I don't care how good AI is in 10 years, human beings are notoriously wary of new technology. As far as I'm aware, every instance of advanced deaging or recreations of younger actors from scratch thus far has been met with extreme skepticism. The idea that millions of people around the globe will be lining up in cinemas to watch a movie with all AI generated characters, let along scripts or direction in the next 10 years is bonkers if you ask me. Its one thing the technology existing to do it, but it's another for it to be socially accepted enough that the movie won't suffer a backlash from its use. As an example, technically speaking videogames could have gone fully digital and removed the disk drives decades ago, but there's still generations of users who see owning games physically as a valuable and important feature, so companies are forced to keep them or face a major backlash. People would feel shortchanged, and at least for the foreseeable future, a majority of the public would feel shortchanged watching a film with no real actors, especially a Bond movie which is older skewing to begin with. No company at the moment is gonna take a 200 million risk of replacing their actors and hoping people don't notice or care.

    I don't know, Hollywood can make Super Mario movies all the time and they will make a lot of money.

    Two points here

    1. Super Mario isn't operated by AI, but by human animators.

    2. You won't see Mario being nominated in the best actor category at the oscars alongside humans anytime soon, sadly.

    It's a cartoon and nobody cared. That's the point.

    Nobody cared because it isn't AI generated. It was animated by humans just like Toy Story was in 1995, unless you think that's AI too.

    They didn't care because they liked the movie. They don't need to watch "real actors".

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited November 2023 Posts: 8,395
    Prediction: because of the arrival of artificial general intelligence, the Bond franchise as we know it will be over before the 3rd film of the next Bond actor.

    No offense, but I don't see this. I don't care how good AI is in 10 years, human beings are notoriously wary of new technology. As far as I'm aware, every instance of advanced deaging or recreations of younger actors from scratch thus far has been met with extreme skepticism. The idea that millions of people around the globe will be lining up in cinemas to watch a movie with all AI generated characters, let along scripts or direction in the next 10 years is bonkers if you ask me. Its one thing the technology existing to do it, but it's another for it to be socially accepted enough that the movie won't suffer a backlash from its use. As an example, technically speaking videogames could have gone fully digital and removed the disk drives decades ago, but there's still generations of users who see owning games physically as a valuable and important feature, so companies are forced to keep them or face a major backlash. People would feel shortchanged, and at least for the foreseeable future, a majority of the public would feel shortchanged watching a film with no real actors, especially a Bond movie which is older skewing to begin with. No company at the moment is gonna take a 200 million risk of replacing their actors and hoping people don't notice or care.

    I don't know, Hollywood can make Super Mario movies all the time and they will make a lot of money.

    Two points here

    1. Super Mario isn't operated by AI, but by human animators.

    2. You won't see Mario being nominated in the best actor category at the oscars alongside humans anytime soon, sadly.

    It's a cartoon and nobody cared. That's the point.

    Nobody cared because it isn't AI generated. It was animated by humans just like Toy Story was in 1995, unless you think that's AI too.

    They didn't care because they liked the movie. They don't need to watch "real actors".

    Maybe in 30 years when gen alpha is grown up, but for now people still very much believe real actors are important for a movie.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Chances are that in 20 years there'll be people who've been brought up with AI in films and won't think anything of it. They may be so used to it by then, that they may even prefer it. Remembering a '00s survey which found that people under 25 preferred the sound of mp3s to vinyl or cd, even though the quality was demonstrably poorer - it was just what they'd grown up hearing, so that's what they liked. That could easily happen in other contexts too.
  • I don’t think there’s going to be a dramatic shift in tone because it’s not 2008 anymore and they couldn’t shift any further without going full Roger Moore (and they’ll never do that again, nobody else could pull it off). We’ve had gadgets, bad puns, invincible henchmen, meglomaniac baddies, bulletproof super cars, secret bases. Some fans might have decided those tropes don’t count if the same film has a sad ending or a contrived half arsed brother angle for the baddy, but I don’t think they’re going to stop trying to do different things with it, and Bond has always had tonal variety. You keep saying make a whole film like Cuba @Mendes4Lyfe, but I don’t think any Bond film is like that all the way through. Even the Moore films weren’t.

    I watched OHMSS the other day and some of the bits would make Roger Moore blush like "he branched off", the newfoundland arriving at the end, "fancy meeting you here fraulein". For a large part of the film he walks around in a kilt with a funny voice banging the various women, and yet it still manages to be one of the most grounded, emotionally affecting entries in the series. There's no reason why a Bond film with gadgets and quips, and a lively, breezy feel to it can't also have a complex character at the centre. When I say they should make a Bond based on the paloma scenes of Bond 25, I don't mean literally make every scene with that exact tone, but make it so a scenes like that no longer stands out like a sore thumb in contrast to the rest of the film.

    I understand why 2006 was a special exception, it was like starting the franchise over again, but I just don't think it warrant that treatment this time, especially since how Bond 25 ended on such a downer. Bond needs to come roaring back into life, and I don't think putting the forumla in the cupboard is the right way to achieve that.

    I think the Hilary Gray stuff feels more out of place than the Pamela scene does to be honest. Felt too carry on for that film. I agree, there’s no reason a Bond film like that can’t have a complex character at the centre, I remember saying similar myself. But I was saying that after QoS. The last three haven’t been consistently good but they’ve felt like Bond films imo.

    That's Lazenby's fault.

    The voice didn’t help, but even if Lazenby had nailed the accent, I still think it’d feel a bit jarring having him shagging around as much as he did at at Piz Gloria right after that montage, and right before he proposes. I think they could have done with a line showing he’d reflected on that a bit more. Have him mention that he’s been with a lot of women but none of them compare? Or maybe the shagging around just needed to be played in a less camp away, I dunno, but it doesn’t quite work imo.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited November 2023 Posts: 3,787
    I don’t think there’s going to be a dramatic shift in tone because it’s not 2008 anymore and they couldn’t shift any further without going full Roger Moore (and they’ll never do that again, nobody else could pull it off). We’ve had gadgets, bad puns, invincible henchmen, meglomaniac baddies, bulletproof super cars, secret bases. Some fans might have decided those tropes don’t count if the same film has a sad ending or a contrived half arsed brother angle for the baddy, but I don’t think they’re going to stop trying to do different things with it, and Bond has always had tonal variety. You keep saying make a whole film like Cuba @Mendes4Lyfe, but I don’t think any Bond film is like that all the way through. Even the Moore films weren’t.

    I watched OHMSS the other day and some of the bits would make Roger Moore blush like "he branched off", the newfoundland arriving at the end, "fancy meeting you here fraulein". For a large part of the film he walks around in a kilt with a funny voice banging the various women, and yet it still manages to be one of the most grounded, emotionally affecting entries in the series. There's no reason why a Bond film with gadgets and quips, and a lively, breezy feel to it can't also have a complex character at the centre. When I say they should make a Bond based on the paloma scenes of Bond 25, I don't mean literally make every scene with that exact tone, but make it so a scenes like that no longer stands out like a sore thumb in contrast to the rest of the film.

    I understand why 2006 was a special exception, it was like starting the franchise over again, but I just don't think it warrant that treatment this time, especially since how Bond 25 ended on such a downer. Bond needs to come roaring back into life, and I don't think putting the forumla in the cupboard is the right way to achieve that.

    I think the Hilary Gray stuff feels more out of place than the Pamela scene does to be honest. Felt too carry on for that film. I agree, there’s no reason a Bond film like that can’t have a complex character at the centre, I remember saying similar myself. But I was saying that after QoS. The last three haven’t been consistently good but they’ve felt like Bond films imo.

    That's Lazenby's fault.

    The voice didn’t help, but even if Lazenby had nailed the accent, I still think it’d feel a bit jarring having him shagging around as much as he did at at Piz Gloria right after that montage, and right before he proposes. I think they could have done with a line showing he’d reflected on that a bit more. Have him mention that he’s been with a lot of women but none of them compare? Or maybe the shagging around just needed to be played in a less camp away, I dunno, but it doesn’t quite work imo.

    Well, it doesn't bother me though, he's doing it mainly for the job, and again, he's not engaged yet, and from how I've watched it, he's not taking it seriously, he could've got an information from Ruby, but she's under of Blofeld's hypnosis, then she went for Nancy, hoping for some information, he wanted to get close to them so he could use an asset inside of Piz Gloria.

    And why Bond would tell Tracy? It would've been embarrassing and insulting for Tracy, if he told it to her, then that's where their relationship ends, remember, their relationship was just getting better at that point, a point where he's starting to earn Tracy's trust, then he would tell that to her.

    The voice, sure it's dubbed, but it's one of the things why the disguise worked more, because he used a different accent and voice (let's assume he's trained to use that voice to make the disguise more effective), that's why I don't get the question of Blofeld not recognizing Bond? Sure, there's no way he could've recognized Bond, especially that he's using a different voice.
  • edited November 2023 Posts: 12,837
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I don’t think there’s going to be a dramatic shift in tone because it’s not 2008 anymore and they couldn’t shift any further without going full Roger Moore (and they’ll never do that again, nobody else could pull it off). We’ve had gadgets, bad puns, invincible henchmen, meglomaniac baddies, bulletproof super cars, secret bases. Some fans might have decided those tropes don’t count if the same film has a sad ending or a contrived half arsed brother angle for the baddy, but I don’t think they’re going to stop trying to do different things with it, and Bond has always had tonal variety. You keep saying make a whole film like Cuba @Mendes4Lyfe, but I don’t think any Bond film is like that all the way through. Even the Moore films weren’t.

    I watched OHMSS the other day and some of the bits would make Roger Moore blush like "he branched off", the newfoundland arriving at the end, "fancy meeting you here fraulein". For a large part of the film he walks around in a kilt with a funny voice banging the various women, and yet it still manages to be one of the most grounded, emotionally affecting entries in the series. There's no reason why a Bond film with gadgets and quips, and a lively, breezy feel to it can't also have a complex character at the centre. When I say they should make a Bond based on the paloma scenes of Bond 25, I don't mean literally make every scene with that exact tone, but make it so a scenes like that no longer stands out like a sore thumb in contrast to the rest of the film.

    I understand why 2006 was a special exception, it was like starting the franchise over again, but I just don't think it warrant that treatment this time, especially since how Bond 25 ended on such a downer. Bond needs to come roaring back into life, and I don't think putting the forumla in the cupboard is the right way to achieve that.

    I think the Hilary Gray stuff feels more out of place than the Pamela scene does to be honest. Felt too carry on for that film. I agree, there’s no reason a Bond film like that can’t have a complex character at the centre, I remember saying similar myself. But I was saying that after QoS. The last three haven’t been consistently good but they’ve felt like Bond films imo.

    That's Lazenby's fault.

    The voice didn’t help, but even if Lazenby had nailed the accent, I still think it’d feel a bit jarring having him shagging around as much as he did at at Piz Gloria right after that montage, and right before he proposes. I think they could have done with a line showing he’d reflected on that a bit more. Have him mention that he’s been with a lot of women but none of them compare? Or maybe the shagging around just needed to be played in a less camp away, I dunno, but it doesn’t quite work imo.

    Well, it doesn't bother me though, he's doing it mainly for the job, and again, he's not engaged yet, and from how I've watched it, he's not taking it seriously, he could've got an information from Ruby, but she's under of Blofeld's hypnosis, then she went for Nancy, hoping for some information, he wanted to get close to them so he could use an asset inside of Piz Gloria.

    I know he was doing it for intel, but they didn’t have to go down that route. The book didn’t, if I remember right (has been a while since I read it though, could be wrong). Him being undercover felt quite tense in that one, compared to how tongue in cheek it was in the film.

    To me it felt a bit like they were worried the audience would reject a film where he wanted to settle down and get married, so they threw some easy shags for him to try and make up for it.

    And I didn’t mean he should have told Tracy he was shagging other birds right before he proposed. I just meant that some sort of acknowledgement of his womanising nature, and how none of them meant anything to him like she did, might have helped me forget that fact.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited November 2023 Posts: 3,787
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I don’t think there’s going to be a dramatic shift in tone because it’s not 2008 anymore and they couldn’t shift any further without going full Roger Moore (and they’ll never do that again, nobody else could pull it off). We’ve had gadgets, bad puns, invincible henchmen, meglomaniac baddies, bulletproof super cars, secret bases. Some fans might have decided those tropes don’t count if the same film has a sad ending or a contrived half arsed brother angle for the baddy, but I don’t think they’re going to stop trying to do different things with it, and Bond has always had tonal variety. You keep saying make a whole film like Cuba @Mendes4Lyfe, but I don’t think any Bond film is like that all the way through. Even the Moore films weren’t.

    I watched OHMSS the other day and some of the bits would make Roger Moore blush like "he branched off", the newfoundland arriving at the end, "fancy meeting you here fraulein". For a large part of the film he walks around in a kilt with a funny voice banging the various women, and yet it still manages to be one of the most grounded, emotionally affecting entries in the series. There's no reason why a Bond film with gadgets and quips, and a lively, breezy feel to it can't also have a complex character at the centre. When I say they should make a Bond based on the paloma scenes of Bond 25, I don't mean literally make every scene with that exact tone, but make it so a scenes like that no longer stands out like a sore thumb in contrast to the rest of the film.

    I understand why 2006 was a special exception, it was like starting the franchise over again, but I just don't think it warrant that treatment this time, especially since how Bond 25 ended on such a downer. Bond needs to come roaring back into life, and I don't think putting the forumla in the cupboard is the right way to achieve that.

    I think the Hilary Gray stuff feels more out of place than the Pamela scene does to be honest. Felt too carry on for that film. I agree, there’s no reason a Bond film like that can’t have a complex character at the centre, I remember saying similar myself. But I was saying that after QoS. The last three haven’t been consistently good but they’ve felt like Bond films imo.

    That's Lazenby's fault.

    The voice didn’t help, but even if Lazenby had nailed the accent, I still think it’d feel a bit jarring having him shagging around as much as he did at at Piz Gloria right after that montage, and right before he proposes. I think they could have done with a line showing he’d reflected on that a bit more. Have him mention that he’s been with a lot of women but none of them compare? Or maybe the shagging around just needed to be played in a less camp away, I dunno, but it doesn’t quite work imo.

    Well, it doesn't bother me though, he's doing it mainly for the job, and again, he's not engaged yet, and from how I've watched it, he's not taking it seriously, he could've got an information from Ruby, but she's under of Blofeld's hypnosis, then she went for Nancy, hoping for some information, he wanted to get close to them so he could use an asset inside of Piz Gloria.

    I know he was doing it for intel, but they didn’t have to go down that route. The book didn’t, if I remember right (has been a while since I read it though, could be wrong). Him being undercover felt quite tense in that one, compared to how tongue in cheek it was in the film.

    To me it felt a bit like they were worried the audience would reject a film where he wanted to settle down and get married, so they threw some easy shags for him to try and make up for it.

    Well, the book did the same, actually Bond called Ruby 'babe' in the book, he'd slept with her too, it's not that tense either, it felt slow and kinda awkward, there's Bond using an invisible (urine?) Ink on a Passport.

    I actually liked that Bond found out the hypnosis system himself in the film, with Blofeld hypnotizing Ruby in process while he's actually there, it makes for a more faster pacing, compared to the book where it felt slow with Bond taking time to find things out.

    I actually enjoyed the Piz Gloria scenes in the film, that section in the book felt so slow and boring, the beginning of Piz Gloria seemed okay, but once it gets further, it's started to become a bit boring, really.
    And I didn’t mean he should have told Tracy he was shagging other birds right before he proposed. I just meant that some sort of acknowledgement of his womanising nature, and how none of them meant anything to him like she did, might have helped me forget that fact.

    It's still the same scenario, the acknowledgement of the womanizing part would still made Tracy doubt Bond a bit, especially that she'd suffered that once from her previous husband who's also a womanizer.

  • Posts: 1,334
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I don’t think there’s going to be a dramatic shift in tone because it’s not 2008 anymore and they couldn’t shift any further without going full Roger Moore (and they’ll never do that again, nobody else could pull it off). We’ve had gadgets, bad puns, invincible henchmen, meglomaniac baddies, bulletproof super cars, secret bases. Some fans might have decided those tropes don’t count if the same film has a sad ending or a contrived half arsed brother angle for the baddy, but I don’t think they’re going to stop trying to do different things with it, and Bond has always had tonal variety. You keep saying make a whole film like Cuba @Mendes4Lyfe, but I don’t think any Bond film is like that all the way through. Even the Moore films weren’t.

    I watched OHMSS the other day and some of the bits would make Roger Moore blush like "he branched off", the newfoundland arriving at the end, "fancy meeting you here fraulein". For a large part of the film he walks around in a kilt with a funny voice banging the various women, and yet it still manages to be one of the most grounded, emotionally affecting entries in the series. There's no reason why a Bond film with gadgets and quips, and a lively, breezy feel to it can't also have a complex character at the centre. When I say they should make a Bond based on the paloma scenes of Bond 25, I don't mean literally make every scene with that exact tone, but make it so a scenes like that no longer stands out like a sore thumb in contrast to the rest of the film.

    I understand why 2006 was a special exception, it was like starting the franchise over again, but I just don't think it warrant that treatment this time, especially since how Bond 25 ended on such a downer. Bond needs to come roaring back into life, and I don't think putting the forumla in the cupboard is the right way to achieve that.

    I think the Hilary Gray stuff feels more out of place than the Pamela scene does to be honest. Felt too carry on for that film. I agree, there’s no reason a Bond film like that can’t have a complex character at the centre, I remember saying similar myself. But I was saying that after QoS. The last three haven’t been consistently good but they’ve felt like Bond films imo.

    That's Lazenby's fault.

    The voice didn’t help, but even if Lazenby had nailed the accent, I still think it’d feel a bit jarring having him shagging around as much as he did at at Piz Gloria right after that montage, and right before he proposes. I think they could have done with a line showing he’d reflected on that a bit more. Have him mention that he’s been with a lot of women but none of them compare? Or maybe the shagging around just needed to be played in a less camp away, I dunno, but it doesn’t quite work imo.

    Well, it doesn't bother me though, he's doing it mainly for the job, and again, he's not engaged yet, and from how I've watched it, he's not taking it seriously, he could've got an information from Ruby, but she's under of Blofeld's hypnosis, then she went for Nancy, hoping for some information, he wanted to get close to them so he could use an asset inside of Piz Gloria.

    And why Bond would tell Tracy? It would've been embarrassing and insulting for Tracy, if he told it to her, then that's where their relationship ends, remember, their relationship was just getting better at that point, a point where he's starting to earn Tracy's trust, then he would tell that to her.

    The voice, sure it's dubbed, but it's one of the things why the disguise worked more, because he used a different accent and voice (let's assume he's trained to use that voice to make the disguise more effective), that's why I don't get the question of Blofeld not recognizing Bond? Sure, there's no way he could've recognized Bond, especially that he's using a different voice.

    The voice thing is silly. It's worse than the Japanese disguise.

  • edited November 2023 Posts: 12,837
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    I don’t think there’s going to be a dramatic shift in tone because it’s not 2008 anymore and they couldn’t shift any further without going full Roger Moore (and they’ll never do that again, nobody else could pull it off). We’ve had gadgets, bad puns, invincible henchmen, meglomaniac baddies, bulletproof super cars, secret bases. Some fans might have decided those tropes don’t count if the same film has a sad ending or a contrived half arsed brother angle for the baddy, but I don’t think they’re going to stop trying to do different things with it, and Bond has always had tonal variety. You keep saying make a whole film like Cuba @Mendes4Lyfe, but I don’t think any Bond film is like that all the way through. Even the Moore films weren’t.

    I watched OHMSS the other day and some of the bits would make Roger Moore blush like "he branched off", the newfoundland arriving at the end, "fancy meeting you here fraulein". For a large part of the film he walks around in a kilt with a funny voice banging the various women, and yet it still manages to be one of the most grounded, emotionally affecting entries in the series. There's no reason why a Bond film with gadgets and quips, and a lively, breezy feel to it can't also have a complex character at the centre. When I say they should make a Bond based on the paloma scenes of Bond 25, I don't mean literally make every scene with that exact tone, but make it so a scenes like that no longer stands out like a sore thumb in contrast to the rest of the film.

    I understand why 2006 was a special exception, it was like starting the franchise over again, but I just don't think it warrant that treatment this time, especially since how Bond 25 ended on such a downer. Bond needs to come roaring back into life, and I don't think putting the forumla in the cupboard is the right way to achieve that.

    I think the Hilary Gray stuff feels more out of place than the Pamela scene does to be honest. Felt too carry on for that film. I agree, there’s no reason a Bond film like that can’t have a complex character at the centre, I remember saying similar myself. But I was saying that after QoS. The last three haven’t been consistently good but they’ve felt like Bond films imo.

    That's Lazenby's fault.

    The voice didn’t help, but even if Lazenby had nailed the accent, I still think it’d feel a bit jarring having him shagging around as much as he did at at Piz Gloria right after that montage, and right before he proposes. I think they could have done with a line showing he’d reflected on that a bit more. Have him mention that he’s been with a lot of women but none of them compare? Or maybe the shagging around just needed to be played in a less camp away, I dunno, but it doesn’t quite work imo.

    Well, it doesn't bother me though, he's doing it mainly for the job, and again, he's not engaged yet, and from how I've watched it, he's not taking it seriously, he could've got an information from Ruby, but she's under of Blofeld's hypnosis, then she went for Nancy, hoping for some information, he wanted to get close to them so he could use an asset inside of Piz Gloria.

    I know he was doing it for intel, but they didn’t have to go down that route. The book didn’t, if I remember right (has been a while since I read it though, could be wrong). Him being undercover felt quite tense in that one, compared to how tongue in cheek it was in the film.

    To me it felt a bit like they were worried the audience would reject a film where he wanted to settle down and get married, so they threw some easy shags for him to try and make up for it.

    Well, the book did the same, actually Bond called Ruby 'babe' in the book, he'd slept with her too, it's not that tense either, it felt slow and kinda awkward, there's Bond using an invisible (urine?) Ink on a Passport.

    I actually liked that Bond found out the hypnosis system himself in the film, with Blofeld hypnotizing Ruby in process while he's actually there, it makes for a more faster pacing, compared to the book where it felt slow with Bond taking time to find things out.

    Fair enough, I was thinking of him lighting the cig with a cold steady hand as his contact got dragged off for intereogation, when I talked about the tension of him being undercover. But I don’t remember the rest of what you’re on about at all, so I’d have to read it again to judge how it was handled in the book, you seem to remember it a lot better than I do. But in the film, the voice, the kilt, the easy shags. It all felt a bit too camp and tongue in cheek for the story they were trying to tell for me.

    I agree the film improves on the book in some ways though. It really bugged me how he never squares off with Blofeld as himself in the book. Having him get captured before he escaped was a great call.
Sign In or Register to comment.