Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • Posts: 1,980
    I am glad the producers have said they won't use deepfake technology to bring back past Bonds. I hope that's the case with both films and commercials. I have no desire to see dead Bond actors exploited.
  • edited November 2023 Posts: 579
    We won't see another Bond film until 2027 at the earliest. EON are waiting for the dust to settle as the industry heals from a pandemic and multiple months long strikes, when there is a clear and obvious niche they can play to.
    Waiting for the dust to settle?? There is no dust. Also, nobody else is waiting. There were dozens of huge announcements about productions re-starting and starting right after the end of the SAG strike.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Great investigating @LucknFate it does feel like stuff is happening behind the scenes, albeit methodically

    Thanks. To me, it's obvious. Eon has no announced revenue coming in on any newly announced projects, but it is a business they have to manage in some way; I have figure in the interim, Eon gets by on merchandising and partnerships? A lot of this brand licensing and commercial partnership stuff is established early to fill the coffers, keep the lights on (and everybody coming to work), etc. and the exact arrangements are never issued in a press release because nobody really cares about the details, just what Bond drives, drinks, wears, and smells like etc.
    mtm wrote: »
    One thing I do think is kind of funny about the recent promo stuff is that, without an incumbent Bond, BB and MW have had to be doing promotional stuff for partners themselves more.

    The only other option could be a new marketing contract with Lazenby, Dalton, Brosnan, or Craig - how cool would that be? Hell, all three should be lifetime brand ambassadors by default, not that they should be forced to work, but it can't be that bad to make a few million, get free whiskey, and wax nostalgic every couple of years? I don't think they'd even have to return in-character, just be actor Tim Dalton drinking whiskey. Fearfully, they could do CGI/Deepfake dead Bonds, but have recently said they never will.

    I think - based on nothing but my intuition - that Eon is very conscious of only ever presenting one James Bond. Obviously they currently have none James Bond, but I think running out one of the All Stars as a brand ambassador, the way football clubs do would be a bit distracting. At least in their eyes.

    Great post, though. I think you are spot on that while they are still a bit off of actually doing detail work on a film they are tending to the scaffolding of the brand to make sure everyone's onside for the medium future. That could theoretically also be: We're just coasting on fumes for two more years, but there's always money in the brand. The tinfoil hat zag would be that Aston Martin is agreeing to go hard on RTAM, because they know that no film is coming anytime soon, so they are milking their relation for what they can at the moment, but I think your take that Macallan, Aston Martin, et al wouldn't really go for that is more realistic.

    What is still surprising to me in all of this is how involved MGW still seems to be. We got a bit of Gregg Williams recently and if I am not mistaken, it was a bit of a marker á la "yes, I am involved in everything.", but I was quite sure that they'd announce MGW's retirement this year and they seem to be far from that.
  • edited November 2023 Posts: 579
    @ImpertinentGoon Yeah, it does seem like MGW will stick around in some capacity until the premiere of Bond 26. But I certainly doubt he will be as involved as he was during the making of NTTD considering that he will be at least 83 when cameras start rolling.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited November 2023 Posts: 8,395
    We won't see another Bond film until 2027 at the earliest. EON are waiting for the dust to settle as the industry heals from a pandemic and multiple months long strikes, when there is a clear and obvious niche they can play to.
    Waiting for the dust to settle?? There is no dust. Also, nobody else is waiting. There were dozens of huge announcements about productions re-starting and starting right after the end of the SAG strike.

    Yeah, but the bond team is at a crossroads creatively and almost every franchise movie is flopping right now including The Marvels. Its not the best time to rush a Bond film into production, EON are sitting tight until things become more stable and the next iteration of cinematic trends become clear.
  • Posts: 1,337
    Yes, they need something to follow.
  • The thought of EON waiting for a trend to emerge that they can follow makes me really glum. I sure hope that won't be the case!
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    The thought of EON waiting for a trend to emerge that they can follow makes me really glum. I sure hope that won't be the case!

    If the movie comes out in 2027 that means we're already 33% of the way there, and we have the game to look forward to in 2025.
  • edited November 2023 Posts: 579
    @Mendes4Lyfe I'm not talking about the wait. I'm talking about the thought of EON waiting for a trend to follow instead of setting a trend.

    As for the wait, the wait only bothers me if the end result is unsatisfactory. If EON announced today that BOND 26 would not be released until let's say 2028 but Chris Nolan would direct it, I would be very happy.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395

    As for the wait, the wait only bothers me if the end result is unsatisfactory. If EON announced today that BOND 26 would not be released until let's say 2028 but Chris Nolan would direct it, I would be very happy.

    I agree with this, Bond 26 has to be a return to form.
  • edited November 2023 Posts: 4,137
    At risk of sounding pessimistic, unfortunately at least a small portion of people on these forums (and in general) are going to be dissatisfied with Bond 26. That’s including if Nolan is the director.

    I’m sure a majority of viewers and critics will like it. To be honest this was the case with NTTD and pretty much every film of the Craig era (perhaps with the exception of QOS upon its release, but even that fared well). But it won’t satisfy everyone, and none of us have crystal balls that can predict when it will be released at the current time. We certainly can’t read the minds of the producers and speculate about what they’re doing/if they’re ‘waiting for any new trends’ (which would be a rather unusual thing to do).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,377
    007HallY wrote: »
    At risk of sounding pessimistic, unfortunately at least a small portion of people on these forums (and in general) are going to be dissatisfied with Bond 26. That’s including if Nolan is the director.

    I'm not looking forward to all of the moaning when Bond#7 gets unveiled- I think that will be far worse.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,538
    LucknFate wrote: »
    I have, I think, some good news. Or a hint of good news.

    Just take a moment to consider Eon's past 18-months:

    June 2022: BB and MGW honored with CBEs.
    June 2022: BB and MGW honored with BFI fellowships.
    Sept. 2022: BB and MGW honored with Pioneers of the Year award.
    Sept. 2022: BB and MGW honored with Hollywood walk of fame stars.
    Sept. 2022: Christie's hosts 007 60th Anniversary charity auction, exceeds expectations.
    Nov. 2022: BB and MGW honored with Great Creative Britons award.

    I would call that a "victory lap" after finally getting NTTD in theaters, as well as smart and necessary networking for the job these two do ... 2022 cemented them as authorities on Bond and British culture, which will likely help them get the money they'll want for the next movie, and likely attract the sort of talent they want to work with (not that they needed a boost, but a boost is a boost). These awards and honors show Eon will engage with talent on a creative level; it's not another Marvel movie, it's a family affair.

    I think 2022 was fully a working year for Eon, in a PR capacity, to secure their positioning for whenever next production actually starts, and establish them as a creative and REWARDING team to work with.

    We don't see them obviously gearing up for the next movie because that's not what they're actually preparing for; they are gearing up for the next decade+, charting a course for themselves and their business, and establishing the core relationships they'll need to make it possible.

    So here's what I'm trying to say:

    2021: Eon releases NTTD, manages post-release publicity of Craig departing role.
    2022: Victory lap, establish you're still around after killing your Cash Cow, you're bigger than Daniel Craig (and Bond), make yourself look good, and start getting into position for what's next.
    2023: Till awards season focus + WH screening; 007 TV Show; IO video game development, and off-books conversations about Bond 7 and Bond 26 begins in closed rooms.

    Here's why I think that last part is already happening. It's nothing to do with existing outlet reports or rumors. Again, look at what's in front of us.

    BB has been leading the 007RTAM publicity in the UK and US during it's launch, taking questions but remaining vague and jovial about the next era of Bond. She has nothing official to announce, but makes it clear that they are actively considering where to go next. She doesn't rule anything out—an indication that she's either interested in having ongoing conversations her comments could jeopardize, or is already having those conversations.

    So what do these convos look like, do I think? Well we have the whiskey video released this week. In it, BB and MGW (and Eon's archivist) begin build up the world of Bond 7 through reaffirming existing partnerships: It's clear Macallan will continue it's partnership with Bond into the future, and I'm sure some sort of back-room assurances have been made to these sorts of business partners that a new project is coming soon to make them confident in their investments. We even get BB and MGW seeming doubling-down on the Bond-of-his-time conceit, in direct contrast to recent reports that Nolan is interested in back-dating Bond to a different time. So clearly BB and MGW have started making their minds up about Bond 7/26, even if it's the basics. That's still the starting point.

    Another reaffirmed partnership: the 007RTAM NY premiere was in an Aston Martin studio, with interviews focused around the automaker's relationship to Bond. So it's probably safe to say Eon has already assured Aston that a new project is coming soon. Because of vehicle production schedules, Eon's standard operating procedure is to approach manufacturing partners as early as possible. A big merchandising deal was signed in 2017 (presumably planned ahead of a desired 2019 Bond release), probably around the time they realized they had Daniel back for B25 and could get moving on things again.

    Daniel Craig, BB and MGW saw early designs of the DBS and gave feedback on them before the car was every known to the public, for example; Sam Mendes picked the DB10 from a selection of sketches years before the real-life Vantage ever came to market. I almost guarantee Marek Reichman already has had early conversations with Eon about what Bond will drive next, what it will be equipped with, and even an idea of how it will be used on screen, if it's anything involved with unannounced Aston product planning.

    Finally, there's this nugget from a Jan. 2023 financial report, which everyone here either forgets about or missed completely: “Looking forward, the directors anticipate the group to display continued growth and profitability whilst concentrating on the development of its next film towards its production."

    If you didn't read any of that:

    BB and MGW are likely actively securing/courting commercial partners, and arranging the longer-scheduled supply line requirements for production's needs, like beginning chats with vehicle suppliers. These relationships can likely exist, in the early discussion stages, without anything to do with the film financing, hence no "official" public movement on the project yet. Think of it more as BB and MGW establishing what they know before tackling the unknown, nailing down the more nuanced side of ultimately marketing the next Bond.

    But it's just a hopeful theory based on what I see. We are still likely months/years from preproduction and certainly a ways off from release.

    Great post @LucknFate! Something I would add to that, is that we know BB and MGW were actively trying to use their experience and leverage to help secure the best and most experienced executives to head the film divisions at MGM/Amazon.

    I think some fans fail to release just how long it's taken for MGM to fully be absorbed and integrated into Amazon. And potentially there are still some legal hurdles ahead.
  • Posts: 1,980
    If every other big budget franchise film flops, so what? If the fear is that could happen to Bond, then what? Bond films wait until the mood changes? Bond copies the next successful films? Bond is scaled back? Bond becomes a weekly television series or a limited run stream?

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    The film industry is in a state of flux, an identity crisis.

    It's like the markets, in a way, @crabkey. One can look at them to see what consumers are "buying"..

    Same thing in film: producers look to box office, not to see who they can copy, but what consumers are buying (and analyze why certain films are consistently trending). And right now, the box office is one of multiple personalities. Expectations of hit films have been all over the map.

    While the project I'm on gears for preproduction in the New Year, I've been hired to write another adaptation. It's a tricky, tricky, tricky story, but one of the things the producers and I have done over the last couple of weeks, was to watch and analyze film of a similar genre, to see what elements they got right, and elements that may have failed them.

    EoN and other producers who make big tent pole films are doing the exact same thing, on a much grander scale, but unfortunately "trends" to analyze aren't out there right now; they're all over the place.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited November 2023 Posts: 5,970
    Olivia Colman Wants To Play M

    https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/olivia-colman-british-vogue-interview

    "For some reason, we get to talking about Judi Dench, who she adores and who I assume she is regularly likened to a younger version of. “What!” she squeals in response. “I’ve never heard that. Oh, I love that! Well, I’ve got short hair.” You could do Bond, I say. “Oh, my God!” More squeals. “The amount of time I have wanted to be M. I’m not sure who I need to call…” Bond producer Barbara Broccoli? “I know, I met her once. I wanted to go, ‘Can I be M?’ I must try to be cooler about it. Maybe she reads Vogue? Put that bit in.

    Make it happen EON. She'd be incredible.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited November 2023 Posts: 1,646
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Olivia Colman Wants To Play M

    https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/olivia-colman-british-vogue-interview

    "For some reason, we get to talking about Judi Dench, who she adores and who I assume she is regularly likened to a younger version of. “What!” she squeals in response. “I’ve never heard that. Oh, I love that! Well, I’ve got short hair.” You could do Bond, I say. “Oh, my God!” More squeals. “The amount of time I have wanted to be M. I’m not sure who I need to call…” Bond producer Barbara Broccoli? “I know, I met her once. I wanted to go, ‘Can I be M?’ I must try to be cooler about it. Maybe she reads Vogue? Put that bit in.

    Make it happen EON. She'd be incredible.

    Just don't put her in the field and make it comical, please. She should lean more into her Fleabag Evil Stepmom and Queen Anne roles, which can be funny but are not played for laughs.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Colman as M? I'd certainly love that.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,377
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Olivia Colman Wants To Play M

    https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/olivia-colman-british-vogue-interview

    "For some reason, we get to talking about Judi Dench, who she adores and who I assume she is regularly likened to a younger version of. “What!” she squeals in response. “I’ve never heard that. Oh, I love that! Well, I’ve got short hair.” You could do Bond, I say. “Oh, my God!” More squeals. “The amount of time I have wanted to be M. I’m not sure who I need to call…” Bond producer Barbara Broccoli? “I know, I met her once. I wanted to go, ‘Can I be M?’ I must try to be cooler about it. Maybe she reads Vogue? Put that bit in.

    Make it happen EON. She'd be incredible.

    Oh wow, that's lovely that she's wanted it.

    I guess the problem is that she actually is a bit too similar to Dench, really.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited November 2023 Posts: 1,646
    mtm wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Olivia Colman Wants To Play M

    https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/olivia-colman-british-vogue-interview

    "For some reason, we get to talking about Judi Dench, who she adores and who I assume she is regularly likened to a younger version of. “What!” she squeals in response. “I’ve never heard that. Oh, I love that! Well, I’ve got short hair.” You could do Bond, I say. “Oh, my God!” More squeals. “The amount of time I have wanted to be M. I’m not sure who I need to call…” Bond producer Barbara Broccoli? “I know, I met her once. I wanted to go, ‘Can I be M?’ I must try to be cooler about it. Maybe she reads Vogue? Put that bit in.

    Make it happen EON. She'd be incredible.

    Oh wow, that's lovely that she's wanted it.

    I guess the problem is that she actually is a bit too similar to Dench, really.

    They could intro her as voice only in a cyberpunk tech-heavy gadget Bond thriller, he's never met the voice that sends him to kill or die. Then in later movies when they do meet it can be a dramatic narrative moment, almost like a second villain reveal (but she's not the villain).

    This also saves them some money, I think, by just using her voice in the first one haha.
  • Posts: 6,709
    Yes to Colman as M. Absolutely!
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,626
    mtm wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Olivia Colman Wants To Play M

    https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/olivia-colman-british-vogue-interview

    "For some reason, we get to talking about Judi Dench, who she adores and who I assume she is regularly likened to a younger version of. “What!” she squeals in response. “I’ve never heard that. Oh, I love that! Well, I’ve got short hair.” You could do Bond, I say. “Oh, my God!” More squeals. “The amount of time I have wanted to be M. I’m not sure who I need to call…” Bond producer Barbara Broccoli? “I know, I met her once. I wanted to go, ‘Can I be M?’ I must try to be cooler about it. Maybe she reads Vogue? Put that bit in.

    Make it happen EON. She'd be incredible.

    Oh wow, that's lovely that she's wanted it.

    I guess the problem is that she actually is a bit too similar to Dench, really.

    Yes, but she can be written differently than what Dench was. Also, yes, I want her in Bond!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,377
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Olivia Colman Wants To Play M

    https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/olivia-colman-british-vogue-interview

    "For some reason, we get to talking about Judi Dench, who she adores and who I assume she is regularly likened to a younger version of. “What!” she squeals in response. “I’ve never heard that. Oh, I love that! Well, I’ve got short hair.” You could do Bond, I say. “Oh, my God!” More squeals. “The amount of time I have wanted to be M. I’m not sure who I need to call…” Bond producer Barbara Broccoli? “I know, I met her once. I wanted to go, ‘Can I be M?’ I must try to be cooler about it. Maybe she reads Vogue? Put that bit in.

    Make it happen EON. She'd be incredible.

    Oh wow, that's lovely that she's wanted it.

    I guess the problem is that she actually is a bit too similar to Dench, really.

    Yes, but she can be written differently than what Dench was. Also, yes, I want her in Bond!

    How different can M be though?
    I loved her as the spy boss in Night Manager, but that wasn't M.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited November 2023 Posts: 5,970
    You can’t really change M too much. To be honest I think Dench was the epitome of the perfect M in my opinion, but I do think Colman would be able to offer something different. She’ll have her own approach and her own way of tackling such a character, and has the talent to go in multiple directions. She can offer her warmer side that’s explored in Heartstopper or she could go for something colder and more stern like her approach as Elizabeth in The Crown.

    But overall, given how limiting a role like M can be in terms of characterisation and considering how we may have gone in all possible directions on that front, I’d prefer something closer to Dench’s M anyway. I enjoyed Fiennes’ M but after Skyfall, his M seemed to get more and more cruel and much colder. In my eyes in seemed throw out the development from Skyfall and while I expected friction in their relationship, it seems very one sided in both Spectre and No Time To Die. I think it’d be refreshing to again explore a relationship with more respect and more understanding as well as the occasional conflict when they don’t see eye to eye.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,377
    M does seem to be one it's hard to imagine changing very much: they could be a bit warmer, but you've always got to have a bit of that distance and coldness, surely? I admit I kind of struggle to imagine it any other way.
    Q feels like there's more scope for a bigger change in dynamic with 007; I'm not too sure where M can go.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited November 2023 Posts: 5,970
    mtm wrote: »
    M does seem to be one it's hard to imagine changing very much: they could be a bit warmer, but you've always got to have a bit of that distance and coldness, surely? I admit I kind of struggle to imagine it any other way. Q feels like there's more scope for a bigger change in dynamic with 007; I'm not too sure where M can go.
    For sure and I think Dench in particular captured that duality perfectly in Casino Royale and I definitely agree there's a bigger scope for Q. I personally have been advocating for a Q who is of a similar age to Bond himself, seeing as we've had to opposite ends of the spectrum with Whishaw and Llewelyn.

    I also think Moneypenny is possibly a tricky one because going forward it really depends on how the writers want to approach the modernisation of her character. I personally think the classic dynamic can remain as long as there is an equal footing and I think playful flirting and banter among co-workers akin to Harris and Craig and Bond and Brosnan, specifically in Goldeneye, is the way to go, with the chemistry between the actors making it feel unique to this upcoming era.
  • Posts: 1,980
    Since reinvention seems to be what's in store for Bond 7, I am confident a professional actor such as OC could create a new and original M. Would love to see Nicola Walker play a Bond villain.
  • Nolan in a recent interview about Oppenheimer:

    “ “I definitely – part of me wants to leave the story behind […] subject matter is very dark. It’s nihilistic. And, yeah, there’s part of me that’s quite keen to move on and maybe do something, you know, not quite as bleak.”
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,134
    Nolan in a recent interview about Oppenheimer:

    “ “I definitely – part of me wants to leave the story behind […] subject matter is very dark. It’s nihilistic. And, yeah, there’s part of me that’s quite keen to move on and maybe do something, you know, not quite as bleak.”

    That’s very generic. Maybe he’s going to do a comedy???
    Certainly doesn’t imply James Bond.
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