Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • edited January 16 Posts: 1,368
    BMB007 wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    For hundreds of pages now, we have been dissecting Bond candidates under a microscope. It's been very interesting, I must say. But what if the Internet had been around in, say, 1962, 1969, 1973, and so on? ;-)

    "We found a guy to play James Bond. He wears a toupee!"
    "We found a guy to play James Bond. He's an inexperienced car salesman from Down Under currently modelling undies."
    "We found a guy to play James Bond. He'll be in his mid-forties when he takes the role."
    "We found a guy to play James Bond. He's a theatre actor who will spit out 'funny lines' as if they give him stomach ulcers."
    "We found a guy to play James Bond. He makes pain faces that scare away birds from grain fields and he talks with a slightly raspy Irish voice."

    It's just a thought I had recently. Our beloved Bond actors may all have been considered wrong for some reason by angry Internet mobs, don't you think? ;-) Well, we know what happened to the sixth guy...

    Sometimes I imagine the media cycle if a Lazenby-esque casting happened today. Inconceivable of something like that occurring again for a project of that scale.

    The former CraigsNotBond people would probably herald the return of the 'Classic James Bond' just because some generic tall, dark, and handsome guy was back in the role. Then the film would come out and everyone would turn on him.

    I like Craig but a tall, dark and handsome guy might work now because he is not Craig.

    I don't need a clone of Craig now. We had the real one for 15 years.

    I didn't say one wouldn't, it just seems like a section of people (not on this forum, but generally) would be satisfied with any good-looking model in the role, even if they lack in acting ability. Then when someone unconventional like Craig gets cast, they immediately reject him.

    That being said, I think Craig's casting has set a new precedent, and Eon will want to continue going after less obvious choices for the part, further pushing the boundaries of who and what James Bond can be. That could mean an actor of a different race, one who isn't conventionally attractive, masculine looking, or all three.

    I don't want a shorter and uglier Bond. That precedent is a "bad precedent".

    I mean, we needed Skyfall after QoS. That was a clear course correction. You can't stray too far.
  • Posts: 1,078
    [
    That being said, I think Craig's casting has set a new precedent, and Eon will want to continue going after less obvious choices for the part, further pushing the boundaries of who and what James Bond can be. That could mean an actor of a different race, one who isn't conventionally attractive, masculine looking, or all three.

    That's what I'm worried about.

    I just want someone who looks like he's described in the books, and can act. I don't think that'll be what we'll get though.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    [
    That being said, I think Craig's casting has set a new precedent, and Eon will want to continue going after less obvious choices for the part, further pushing the boundaries of who and what James Bond can be. That could mean an actor of a different race, one who isn't conventionally attractive, masculine looking, or all three.

    That's what I'm worried about.

    I just want someone who looks like he's described in the books, and can act. I don't think that'll be what we'll get though.

    We've never had a guy who looked like Fleming's description. And yet, we've been pretty lucky, overall, with the EON's choices so far.
  • Posts: 1,078
    I think there's been a couple of actors very close.

    But that's what I'd like anyway. I'd like them to go to the books when looking for a new actor. I'd like the next film to be a celebration of the character Fleming created. As I say, I doubt it'll happen, but I can at least admit that's what I'd like to see happen.
  • Posts: 1,368
    If they want to be brave, they should be brave with the director and not with the actor.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 16 Posts: 16,413
    Book adaptations don't really need to stick to exact physical descriptions much: it's not that usual for them to. I'm sure you can think of some examples where they do, but there's many many more that don't; including James Bond of course. As long as they cast and get the spirit of the character i.e. very handsome, alpha male, confident, physically fit etc. then it's fine by me. A comma of black hair is hardly essential.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,045
    Rewatching Craig's Bond, I discovered he also had the comma. Only in a subtle way. Maybe because it wasn't curly, so it wasn't that prominent. But it was always there....right from CR.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Timmy Dalton had a great little comma in TLD.
  • Posts: 944
    The next film will have to be radically different to the usual. We have most of the contenders staring in spy/assassin movies, and we can't let that diminish our Bond formula.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    The next film will have to be radically different to the usual. We have most of the contenders staring in spy/assassin movies, and we can't let that diminish our Bond formula.

    What constitutes "our Bond formula"?
  • Posts: 4,162
    I can imagine Bond 26 running with the very broad story elements that we quintessentially think of as ‘the Bond formula’, more than the first three Craig films did. By this I mean I think we’ll be likely to get a Bond/M briefing scene in the MI6 office, Bond will in fact have gadgets, the Bond girl will in fact live to the end of the film etc.

    That said I think within that very broad framework they’ll do something different with it - subvert some sort of expectation, put a twist on something etc. Honestly, every Bond film does something different anyway using that foundation, even if the Craig films departed from some of it (ie. Every Bond film will have a villain, a set up to Bond’s mission, an ally of some sort even if it’s simply M, Bond girl etc, and at least one part of the usual fodder is there - the Bond theme, the ‘Bond, James Bond’, the gun barrel etc.)
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Top Gun, Ghostbusters, Picard and Godzilla illustrate how being true to source material can be successful and embraced by filmgoers
  • Posts: 6,709
    talos7 wrote: »
    Top Gun, Ghostbusters, Picard and Godzilla illustrate how being true to source material can be successful and embraced by filmgoers

    +1

    (do we do +1s anymore? If not, I’ll say I couldn’t agree more)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 16 Posts: 16,413
    talos7 wrote: »
    Top Gun, Ghostbusters, Picard and Godzilla illustrate how being true to source material can be successful and embraced by filmgoers

    They're sequels, they're not adapting any source material. It's pretty rare for a sequel not to be faithful to the film it's following up: Quantum of Solace is faithful to Casino Royale, for instance.
    007HallY wrote: »
    I can imagine Bond 26 running with the very broad story elements that we quintessentially think of as ‘the Bond formula’, more than the first three Craig films did. By this I mean I think we’ll be likely to get a Bond/M briefing scene in the MI6 office, Bond will in fact have gadgets, the Bond girl will in fact live to the end of the film etc.

    That said I think within that very broad framework they’ll do something different with it - subvert some sort of expectation, put a twist on something etc. Honestly, every Bond film does something different anyway using that foundation, even if the Craig films departed from some of it (ie. Every Bond film will have a villain, a set up to Bond’s mission, an ally of some sort even if it’s simply M, Bond girl etc, and at least one part of the usual fodder is there - the Bond theme, the ‘Bond, James Bond’, the gun barrel etc.)

    Yeah I think there's a good chance of this. I can imagine it having all of those things but in a re-imagined way: M's office changed again, the opening titles in a whole new style etc.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Godzilla is in no way a sequel, and the point is that the elements , and tone of the source films are what we’re appealing, sequel or not, about the recent films.

    Godzilla Minus One is a beautiful example of using modern filmmaking to energize an existing property.
    It’s not a sequel but does not have a man in a rubber suit stomping model cities.
  • Posts: 1,368
    007HallY wrote: »
    I can imagine Bond 26 running with the very broad story elements that we quintessentially think of as ‘the Bond formula’, more than the first three Craig films did. By this I mean I think we’ll be likely to get a Bond/M briefing scene in the MI6 office, Bond will in fact have gadgets, the Bond girl will in fact live to the end of the film etc.

    That said I think within that very broad framework they’ll do something different with it - subvert some sort of expectation, put a twist on something etc. Honestly, every Bond film does something different anyway using that foundation, even if the Craig films departed from some of it (ie. Every Bond film will have a villain, a set up to Bond’s mission, an ally of some sort even if it’s simply M, Bond girl etc, and at least one part of the usual fodder is there - the Bond theme, the ‘Bond, James Bond’, the gun barrel etc.)

    With a novel you don't need a "twist" . The book will give you enough stuff.
  • edited January 16 Posts: 4,162
    007HallY wrote: »
    I can imagine Bond 26 running with the very broad story elements that we quintessentially think of as ‘the Bond formula’, more than the first three Craig films did. By this I mean I think we’ll be likely to get a Bond/M briefing scene in the MI6 office, Bond will in fact have gadgets, the Bond girl will in fact live to the end of the film etc.

    That said I think within that very broad framework they’ll do something different with it - subvert some sort of expectation, put a twist on something etc. Honestly, every Bond film does something different anyway using that foundation, even if the Craig films departed from some of it (ie. Every Bond film will have a villain, a set up to Bond’s mission, an ally of some sort even if it’s simply M, Bond girl etc, and at least one part of the usual fodder is there - the Bond theme, the ‘Bond, James Bond’, the gun barrel etc.)

    With a novel you don't need a "twist" . The book will give you enough stuff.

    Well, no, not really... as I've said before even when adapting a novel the script will often change something or indeed give it a 'twist' of some sort. That's been the case with pretty much every Bond film that's been faithful to the source material.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 16 Posts: 16,413
    talos7 wrote: »
    Godzilla is in no way a sequel

    The others all are though, hence they simply draw on the film they're sequels to. And I'd also disagree that Ghostbusters did it well; I thought it completely misunderstood what Ghostbusters is i.e. a comedy blockbuster, and tried to force it into being a Spielberg/Stranger Things-style nostalgia schmaltzfest with a load of overly fetishised old props thrown in.
    And Godzilla aside, these aren't series with over 25 entries: if they were they wouldn't have kept making the same film over and over again. Which is why the new Godzilla film isn't that: it's a new take on how to tell a Godzilla story. But which respects the original material... and that's exactly what the recent Bond films have been doing too, so there's no real reason to think they won't continue on that track.
  • Posts: 944
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    The next film will have to be radically different to the usual. We have most of the contenders staring in spy/assassin movies, and we can't let that diminish our Bond formula.

    What constitutes "our Bond formula"?

    Just like the stuff going on in the scenes. For example, in the trailer for Netflix's The Gentlemen, there was some "Bondian" aspects/styles going on. Don't you feel it copies Bond? When the supercar powerslid into shot, I was shaking my head.
  • edited January 16 Posts: 6,709
    mtm wrote: »
    … it's a new take on how to tell a Godzilla story. But which respects the original material... and that's exactly what the recent Bond films have been doing too, so there's no real reason to think they won't continue on that track.

    Indeed. So I suppose @talos7 wishes they continue down that trajectory (whilst diverting from annoying narrative divergences such as making a villain Bond’s stepbrother, giving him a daughter to make breakfast to, or killing him). He is, as am I, and I take it you are too, making the case for what works best within the confinements of the source material and the cannonical films. I suppose they have learned by now what works and what doesn’t, but I may be proven wrong, as I’ve thought the same before and was left with a bitter taste after sampling their efforts. Must say that, despite not agreeing with their direction in the latest instalments, I still am a strong supporter of EON and their work and artistic ethos.

    In short, going back to basics and to what works is the key. Not saying this is the so called formula, not at all, but the elements that work. CR, for example, while jumping over formulaic tropes, had those elements in spades.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    mtm wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    Godzilla is in no way a sequel

    The others all are though, hence they simply draw on the film they're sequels to. And I'd also disagree that Ghostbusters did it well; I thought it completely misunderstood what Ghostbusters is i.e. a comedy blockbuster, and tried to force it into being a Spielberg/Stranger Things-style nostalgia schmaltzfest with a load of overly fetishised old props thrown in.

    I also thought Ghostbusters was an odd example! I don't know if the new ones are good or not for what they are, but they aren't even the same genre as the first one (or two).

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    God, that last GHOSTBUSTERS was abysmal. I’m content to just pretend that never became a franchise after the first. Too many fans mythologize it when it was only ever supposed to be a farcical comedy for Murray to make sarcastic quips at Armageddon.
  • Posts: 6,709
    What do you guys think of the premise that they should make a good film, that happens to be a Bond film?

    I suppose this is purely syllogistic. But I find that most good Bond films are first and foremost, good films overall (FRWL, OHMSS, TLD, GE, CR, SF, to name a few that aren’t that polemical to name as good films - please don’t digress into that sort of discussion).

    I ask this because I keep hearing people say that the new Godzilla is a good film that happens to be a Godzilla film.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    God, that last GHOSTBUSTERS was abysmal. I’m content to just pretend that never became a franchise after the first. Too many fans mythologize it when it was only ever supposed to be a farcical comedy for Murray to make sarcastic quips at Armageddon.

    I respectfully disagree and enjoyed it, as did many others.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    007HallY wrote: »
    I can imagine Bond 26 running with the very broad story elements that we quintessentially think of as ‘the Bond formula’, more than the first three Craig films did. By this I mean I think we’ll be likely to get a Bond/M briefing scene in the MI6 office, Bond will in fact have gadgets, the Bond girl will in fact live to the end of the film etc.

    That said I think within that very broad framework they’ll do something different with it - subvert some sort of expectation, put a twist on something etc. Honestly, every Bond film does something different anyway using that foundation, even if the Craig films departed from some of it (ie. Every Bond film will have a villain, a set up to Bond’s mission, an ally of some sort even if it’s simply M, Bond girl etc, and at least one part of the usual fodder is there - the Bond theme, the ‘Bond, James Bond’, the gun barrel etc.)

    With a novel you don't need a "twist" . The book will give you enough stuff.

    Hey, @DEKE_RIVERS ... Uhm, I've adapted a novel, and the same producer of that project has hired me to adapt another novel (from the same author)... I'm genuinely asking you to join me in a conversation (in our DMs), about how utterly misguided your post was. I don't think you'll accept the invitation, but I am asking...

    From your comments about scripts aren't written to be read, to this latest about books providing "enough stuff", it sounds like you think whipping up a $200 million tentpole film is easy-peasy. I can assure you, putting together a half a million dollar contained film, is brutal, let alone a massive multi million dollar blockbuster.

    My DM's open and I'd be happy to chat further...
  • Posts: 6,709
    Well, I’ve written and published 8 novels, and I too don’t understand that particular post. But maybe we don’t know what we’re talking about, @peter :) Life’s a short mystery and we have to learn from each and every uninformed opinion ;)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Univex wrote: »
    Well, I’ve written and published 8 novels, and I too don’t understand that particular post. But maybe we don’t know what we’re talking about, @peter :) Life’s a short mystery and we have to learn from each and every uninformed opinion ;)

    These statements are said with the utmost confidence, that maybe I'm missing the genius (which is to be expected, since I'm obviously an idiot!)...Oh well, there's always my next life (I hear we live two of them...)...
  • Posts: 6,709
    peter wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    Well, I’ve written and published 8 novels, and I too don’t understand that particular post. But maybe we don’t know what we’re talking about, @peter :) Life’s a short mystery and we have to learn from each and every uninformed opinion ;)

    These statements are said with the utmost confidence, that maybe I'm missing the genius (which is to be expected, since I'm obviously an idiot!)...Oh well, there's always my next life (I hear we live two of them...)...

    Well, then we’re two idiots, and two of those don’t make a right, as one knows. At least the next life is meant “for our dreams”… or was it this one? ;)
  • edited January 16 Posts: 4,162
    Univex wrote: »
    What do you guys think of the premise that they should make a good film, that happens to be a Bond film?

    I suppose this is purely syllogistic. But I find that most good Bond films are first and foremost, good films overall (FRWL, OHMSS, TLD, GE, CR, SF, to name a few that aren’t that polemical to name as good films - please don’t digress into that sort of discussion).

    I ask this because I keep hearing people say that the new Godzilla is a good film that happens to be a Godzilla film.

    Interesting question. I suppose I'd ask if there's any genuine difference between a good Bond film and a good film anyway. I mean, if a Bond film came out that had a technically polished script, good filmmaking, good acting etc. but completely did away with any sense of the 'Bond formula', iconography or character I don't think many viewers would like it at all (and I don't mean in a Craig era subversion way, I mean in a way where all these elements - the formula, adventure, action etc - are stripped away it's not recognisably a 'Bond film'... I suppose the closest I can think of to this extreme would be a loose adaptation of, say, 007 In New York directed by someone like Jim Jarmusch).

    But yeah, I think EON will always strive to make a great film, and this is what I'd want too. But they also know that they're making Bond films and want to craft the best adventure with that character, and this is why I go to see them... not sure if that answers the question/what you were getting at though.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,045
    peter wrote: »
    Timmy Dalton had a great little comma in TLD.

    Verily.
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