Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    peter wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    The longer they wait on #26 the less the next generation of film going audiences will be tied to Craig, making a fresh start much easier. Personally, I look forward to an "unknown" like Connery, Lazenby, Dalton and Craig.

    Is being tied to Craig really an issue? The best Bond of all bowed out twice and the next Bond film with a new actor was released in two years. I don't need half a decade to get Craig out of my system. That happened with the credit roll at the end of NTTD. Craig was a very good Bond, but Bonds come and go. The first time it happened was jarring, but it's long been a routine.

    Some believe that if there was a longer between period Moore and Dalton, that Dalton may have had a better shot with audiences.

    Moore had an impact, and his depiction resonated, and, I think there's an element of truth that this may've hurt Dalton's fortunes as the character.

    Craig had been Bond for 15'ish years, and although the fandom may be ready to move on, the worldwide audiences have only known one actor in the role, for a decade and a half.

    Separation and time, from one era to another, is good for many reasons, but one of them is to give the new guy a solid runway to soar.

    It is. And it doesn't have to be that long. A few years. Remember when Batman Begins came out? Felt like aeons since Batman & Robin. That was 6 years. And the world had changed.

    I think 6 years is perfectly acceptable. (Given that NTTD was scheduled for a 2020 release, that would lead to '26.)
  • Posts: 1,859
    peter wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    The longer they wait on #26 the less the next generation of film going audiences will be tied to Craig, making a fresh start much easier. Personally, I look forward to an "unknown" like Connery, Lazenby, Dalton and Craig.

    Is being tied to Craig really an issue? The best Bond of all bowed out twice and the next Bond film with a new actor was released in two years. I don't need half a decade to get Craig out of my system. That happened with the credit roll at the end of NTTD. Craig was a very good Bond, but Bonds come and go. The first time it happened was jarring, but it's long been a routine.

    Some believe that if there was a longer between period Moore and Dalton, that Dalton may have had a better shot with audiences.

    Moore had an impact, and his depiction resonated, and, I think there's an element of truth that this may've hurt Dalton's fortunes as the character.

    Craig had been Bond for 15'ish years, and although the fandom may be ready to move on, the worldwide audiences have only known one actor in the role, for a decade and a half.

    Separation and time, from one era to another, is good for many reasons, but one of them is to give the new guy a solid runway to soar.

    Exactly.
  • Posts: 4,133
    delfloria wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    The longer they wait on #26 the less the next generation of film going audiences will be tied to Craig, making a fresh start much easier. Personally, I look forward to an "unknown" like Connery, Lazenby, Dalton and Craig.

    Is being tied to Craig really an issue? The best Bond of all bowed out twice and the next Bond film with a new actor was released in two years. I don't need half a decade to get Craig out of my system. That happened with the credit roll at the end of NTTD. Craig was a very good Bond, but Bonds come and go. The first time it happened was jarring, but it's long been a routine.

    Some believe that if there was a longer between period Moore and Dalton, that Dalton may have had a better shot with audiences.

    Moore had an impact, and his depiction resonated, and, I think there's an element of truth that this may've hurt Dalton's fortunes as the character.

    Craig had been Bond for 15'ish years, and although the fandom may be ready to move on, the worldwide audiences have only known one actor in the role, for a decade and a half.

    Separation and time, from one era to another, is good for many reasons, but one of them is to give the new guy a solid runway to soar.

    Exactly.

    Yeah, agreed too. I don’t think Dalton coming so soon after Moore did him any favours, solid as he was. Even looking at reviews of LALD from the time critics still compared Moore (not always favourably) to Connery.
  • 007HallY wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    The longer they wait on #26 the less the next generation of film going audiences will be tied to Craig, making a fresh start much easier. Personally, I look forward to an "unknown" like Connery, Lazenby, Dalton and Craig.

    Is being tied to Craig really an issue? The best Bond of all bowed out twice and the next Bond film with a new actor was released in two years. I don't need half a decade to get Craig out of my system. That happened with the credit roll at the end of NTTD. Craig was a very good Bond, but Bonds come and go. The first time it happened was jarring, but it's long been a routine.

    Some believe that if there was a longer between period Moore and Dalton, that Dalton may have had a better shot with audiences.

    Moore had an impact, and his depiction resonated, and, I think there's an element of truth that this may've hurt Dalton's fortunes as the character.

    Craig had been Bond for 15'ish years, and although the fandom may be ready to move on, the worldwide audiences have only known one actor in the role, for a decade and a half.

    Separation and time, from one era to another, is good for many reasons, but one of them is to give the new guy a solid runway to soar.

    Exactly.

    Yeah, agreed too. I don’t think Dalton coming so soon after Moore did him any favours, solid as he was. Even looking at reviews of LALD from the time critics still compared Moore (not always favourably) to Connery.

    Gene Siskel famously made it a trait of his to always compare any of Connery’s successors unfavorably to the big man himself. To the point where I can’t take his views on the films seriously because not having Connery was seen as a negative in his eyes.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,619
    007HallY wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    The longer they wait on #26 the less the next generation of film going audiences will be tied to Craig, making a fresh start much easier. Personally, I look forward to an "unknown" like Connery, Lazenby, Dalton and Craig.

    Is being tied to Craig really an issue? The best Bond of all bowed out twice and the next Bond film with a new actor was released in two years. I don't need half a decade to get Craig out of my system. That happened with the credit roll at the end of NTTD. Craig was a very good Bond, but Bonds come and go. The first time it happened was jarring, but it's long been a routine.

    Some believe that if there was a longer between period Moore and Dalton, that Dalton may have had a better shot with audiences.

    Moore had an impact, and his depiction resonated, and, I think there's an element of truth that this may've hurt Dalton's fortunes as the character.

    Craig had been Bond for 15'ish years, and although the fandom may be ready to move on, the worldwide audiences have only known one actor in the role, for a decade and a half.

    Separation and time, from one era to another, is good for many reasons, but one of them is to give the new guy a solid runway to soar.

    Exactly.

    Yeah, agreed too. I don’t think Dalton coming so soon after Moore did him any favours, solid as he was. Even looking at reviews of LALD from the time critics still compared Moore (not always favourably) to Connery.

    Gene Siskel famously made it a trait of his to always compare any of Connery’s successors unfavorably to the big man himself. To the point where I can’t take his views on the films seriously because not having Connery was seen as a negative in his eyes.

    I never thought Siskel was a good movie critic. He was often very one-sided on things. Bond is one of the biggest examples. P.S he also didn’t like DAF, and that had Connery in it. Meanwhile, he didn’t like Moore or Brosnan, but fully liked FYEO, OP and especially TND. Movies had to be too personal for him.
  • edited February 29 Posts: 4,133
    007HallY wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    delfloria wrote: »
    The longer they wait on #26 the less the next generation of film going audiences will be tied to Craig, making a fresh start much easier. Personally, I look forward to an "unknown" like Connery, Lazenby, Dalton and Craig.

    Is being tied to Craig really an issue? The best Bond of all bowed out twice and the next Bond film with a new actor was released in two years. I don't need half a decade to get Craig out of my system. That happened with the credit roll at the end of NTTD. Craig was a very good Bond, but Bonds come and go. The first time it happened was jarring, but it's long been a routine.

    Some believe that if there was a longer between period Moore and Dalton, that Dalton may have had a better shot with audiences.

    Moore had an impact, and his depiction resonated, and, I think there's an element of truth that this may've hurt Dalton's fortunes as the character.

    Craig had been Bond for 15'ish years, and although the fandom may be ready to move on, the worldwide audiences have only known one actor in the role, for a decade and a half.

    Separation and time, from one era to another, is good for many reasons, but one of them is to give the new guy a solid runway to soar.

    Exactly.

    Yeah, agreed too. I don’t think Dalton coming so soon after Moore did him any favours, solid as he was. Even looking at reviews of LALD from the time critics still compared Moore (not always favourably) to Connery.

    Gene Siskel famously made it a trait of his to always compare any of Connery’s successors unfavorably to the big man himself. To the point where I can’t take his views on the films seriously because not having Connery was seen as a negative in his eyes.

    That is unfortunate. Hopefully the new actor won’t fall into the same pitfall by being compared unfairly to Craig.

    Again, I’m personally of the opinion there’s no definitive screen Bond, not even Connery. The fundamental elements which make a screen Bond didn’t come solely from him (it’s a mixture of Fleming/how the producers, writers and directors interpreted this. Connery’s natural strengths and charisma, while there and powerful, are only a small part of what remains with each subsequent interpretation). Like Connery, each actor brings something slightly different within that framework.
  • Posts: 1,332
    Dalton's problem wasn't Moore. They were Gibson, Willis and Harrison Ford.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Dalton's problem wasn't Moore. They were Gibson, Willis and Harrison Ford.

    You're not all wrong there, @DEKE_RIVERS (my (Dark) Lord, and Saviour), but yes, Dalton was seen, at the time, as being too sharp a contrast to Moore. You do realize you don't have to be contrarian to make a point?

    Two things can be true at the same time.

    Life is about nuance, and, yes, the rise of the 80s action hero, combined with a harder take of 007, two short years after Moore's seven film run, all had some impact on Dalton's fortunes...
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,288
    Dalton's problem wasn't Moore. They were Gibson, Willis and Harrison Ford.

    And yet, Bond is healthier than any of these other franchises.
  • Posts: 1,978
    @Peter - I would find that argument more compelling if Bond hadn't been blown to smithereens at the end of the film with James Bond Will Return in the credit roll. That was an unambiguous message that Craig won't be back. Sort of a suck it up Craig fans, a new Bond is on his way. Not having killed Connery left the door open for two more comebacks.

    Of course all of this grows from the frustration of fans who are tired of waiting and who, like myself, prefer to be irrational occasionally.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @Peter - I would find that argument more compelling if Bond hadn't been blown to smithereens at the end of the film with James Bond Will Return in the credit roll. That was an unambiguous message that Craig won't be back. Sort of a suck it up Craig fans, a new Bond is on his way. Not having killed Connery left the door open for two more comebacks.

    Of course all of this grows from the frustration of fans who are tired of waiting and who, like myself, prefer to be irrational occasionally.

    @CrabKey , I’m not sure what you’re responding to? The gap between films? I’m not clear how the gap is tied to the end of NTTD? It says Bond will return, but that somehow also was a message to “Craig fans to suck it up”? I’m not being facetious, I don’t understand what you’re saying (as a huge Craig fan, I didn’t feel I had to suck up anything after the film? As a fan of Craig, I enjoyed seeing his last film, and I’m happy that we have been promised another Bond film, knowing a recast is happening….).
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I really hope that Denis Villeneuve is not the director for the next film, personally. I can't think what he would bring which wasn't already demonstrated in Casino Royale. It would feel like taking a step backwards IMO.
  • edited March 1 Posts: 1,332
    peter wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @Peter - I would find that argument more compelling if Bond hadn't been blown to smithereens at the end of the film with James Bond Will Return in the credit roll. That was an unambiguous message that Craig won't be back. Sort of a suck it up Craig fans, a new Bond is on his way. Not having killed Connery left the door open for two more comebacks.

    Of course all of this grows from the frustration of fans who are tired of waiting and who, like myself, prefer to be irrational occasionally.

    @CrabKey , I’m not sure what you’re responding to? The gap between films? I’m not clear how the gap is tied to the end of NTTD? It says Bond will return, but that somehow also was a message to “Craig fans to suck it up”? I’m not being facetious, I don’t understand what you’re saying (as a huge Craig fan, I didn’t feel I had to suck up anything after the film? As a fan of Craig, I enjoyed seeing his last film, and I’m happy that we have been promised another Bond film, knowing a recast is happening….).

    Craig's Bond is dead and buried. He says no one expects his return.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited March 1 Posts: 5,970
    When it comes to the death of Bond at the end of No Time To Die, I think, why not?

    EON and Craig knew he wouldn't be coming back, no matter how much money was put in front of him, so why not explore that concept when you 100% know that the actor isn't coming back and that the next era will be a complete reboot, because as soon as Craig's era became connected with an overarching storyline, we all knew it wouldn't be continued with another actor?

    Also, the concept of Bond's death almost certainly would have been explored at some point down the line, so again why not when your current era is set within its own continuity with no chance of continuation with another actor?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    peter wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @Peter - I would find that argument more compelling if Bond hadn't been blown to smithereens at the end of the film with James Bond Will Return in the credit roll. That was an unambiguous message that Craig won't be back. Sort of a suck it up Craig fans, a new Bond is on his way. Not having killed Connery left the door open for two more comebacks.

    Of course all of this grows from the frustration of fans who are tired of waiting and who, like myself, prefer to be irrational occasionally.

    @CrabKey , I’m not sure what you’re responding to? The gap between films? I’m not clear how the gap is tied to the end of NTTD? It says Bond will return, but that somehow also was a message to “Craig fans to suck it up”? I’m not being facetious, I don’t understand what you’re saying (as a huge Craig fan, I didn’t feel I had to suck up anything after the film? As a fan of Craig, I enjoyed seeing his last film, and I’m happy that we have been promised another Bond film, knowing a recast is happening….).

    Craig's Bond is dead and buried. He says no one expects his return.

    Yes, I think we all get that, but I don't think that's what @CrabKey was getting at, since it's in reply to one of my posts, and I've never once questioned that Craig is ever coming back.
  • Posts: 1,332
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @Peter - I would find that argument more compelling if Bond hadn't been blown to smithereens at the end of the film with James Bond Will Return in the credit roll. That was an unambiguous message that Craig won't be back. Sort of a suck it up Craig fans, a new Bond is on his way. Not having killed Connery left the door open for two more comebacks.

    Of course all of this grows from the frustration of fans who are tired of waiting and who, like myself, prefer to be irrational occasionally.

    @CrabKey , I’m not sure what you’re responding to? The gap between films? I’m not clear how the gap is tied to the end of NTTD? It says Bond will return, but that somehow also was a message to “Craig fans to suck it up”? I’m not being facetious, I don’t understand what you’re saying (as a huge Craig fan, I didn’t feel I had to suck up anything after the film? As a fan of Craig, I enjoyed seeing his last film, and I’m happy that we have been promised another Bond film, knowing a recast is happening….).

    Craig's Bond is dead and buried. He says no one expects his return.

    Yes, I think we all get that, but I don't think that's what @CrabKey was getting at, since it's in reply to one of my posts, and I've never once questioned that Craig is ever coming back.

    Maybe he thinks the gap is pointless for that reason.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited March 1 Posts: 5,970
    The thing is EON's doomed for trying and doomed for not, especially here. If they rush out the first in the next era and its unsuccessful, then "they shouldn't have rushed" and "too soon after killing Daniel Craig". if they wait and its unsuccessful, then "they took too long" and "its because they killed Daniel Craig".

    So I say let's just be patient and let us see what they end up cooking up for us and the chances are, given the track record of Barbara and Michael when it comes to reintroducing the character with a new actor... we'll love it.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    edited March 1 Posts: 9,509
    peter wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @Peter - I would find that argument more compelling if Bond hadn't been blown to smithereens at the end of the film with James Bond Will Return in the credit roll. That was an unambiguous message that Craig won't be back. Sort of a suck it up Craig fans, a new Bond is on his way. Not having killed Connery left the door open for two more comebacks.

    Of course all of this grows from the frustration of fans who are tired of waiting and who, like myself, prefer to be irrational occasionally.

    @CrabKey , I’m not sure what you’re responding to? The gap between films? I’m not clear how the gap is tied to the end of NTTD? It says Bond will return, but that somehow also was a message to “Craig fans to suck it up”? I’m not being facetious, I don’t understand what you’re saying (as a huge Craig fan, I didn’t feel I had to suck up anything after the film? As a fan of Craig, I enjoyed seeing his last film, and I’m happy that we have been promised another Bond film, knowing a recast is happening….).

    Craig's Bond is dead and buried. He says no one expects his return.

    Yes, I think we all get that, but I don't think that's what @CrabKey was getting at, since it's in reply to one of my posts, and I've never once questioned that Craig is ever coming back.

    Maybe he thinks the gap is pointless for that reason.

    Cool....

    @Denbigh nicely stated.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    Is a gap that hard to understand? The Craig incarnation of Bond was a self contained universe, independent from anything that had come before. It has a story arc that ended with Bond’s sacrificing his life for his family. This incarnation of Bond is over. It makes perfect sense to create some distance between it and what comes next. It also allows them to carefully consider their direction. I might not like a long gap, but I understand it.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    talos7 wrote: »
    Is a gap that hard to understand? The Craig incarnation of Bond was a self contained universe, independent from anything that had come before. It has a story arc that ended with Bond’s sacrificing his life for his family. This incarnation of Bond is over. It makes perfect sense to create some distance between it and what comes next. It also allows them to carefully consider their direction. I might not like a long gap, but I understand it.

    @talos7 , I agree wholeheartedly, and was trying to say the same yesterday.

    Although a gap of any kind really doesn't bother me, I understand why some may be impatient. But gaps and separation are good, and there are profound reasons for it behind the scenes.

    I think we forget our job is to fill seats once the film is released.

    But the people working on these films (not just Bond, but any film), take every single move with deadly seriousness.

    Filmmaking is a business of what have you done for me lately, and the most used word in this industry is: NO.

    Every single choice can make or break a project, or make or break what you next get hired for.

    This isn't a game, it's their livelihood....

    There are no gaps to make people suck things up, or upset their audiences (who in the end are their clients). This gap is to ensure that a $200 million (plus) project gets off the ground in the best possible way.

    What $200 million projects out in the world, film or otherwise, are turned around in a few short months. This is real money, with real stakes, with real flesh and blood humans working to make it into a product we want to buy...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Hell, we've had some large gaps in the latter half of the Craig era alone; it stands to reason that we'd obviously get a similar, if not bigger, gap before beginning the next era.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Hell, we've had some large gaps in the latter half of the Craig era alone; it stands to reason that we'd obviously get a similar, if not bigger, gap before beginning the next era.

    Yep. Bond always returns.
  • Posts: 579
    I really hope that Denis Villeneuve is not the director for the next film, personally. I can't think what he would bring which wasn't already demonstrated in Casino Royale. It would feel like taking a step backwards IMO.

    I also really hope he won't direct Bond 26 because I want him to direct Rendezvous with Rama next. Which is probably my most anticipated movie right now.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited March 1 Posts: 5,970
    peter wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Hell, we've had some large gaps in the latter half of the Craig era alone; it stands to reason that we'd obviously get a similar, if not bigger, gap before beginning the next era.
    Bond always returns.
    Maybe this should have been the tag on the end of No Time To Die? :D
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Hell, we've had some large gaps in the latter half of the Craig era alone; it stands to reason that we'd obviously get a similar, if not bigger, gap before beginning the next era.
    Bond always returns.
    Maybe this should have been the tag on the end of No Time To Die? :D

    😂 👍🏻 😂 👍🏻!!!
  • edited March 1 Posts: 1,332
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Hell, we've had some large gaps in the latter half of the Craig era alone; it stands to reason that we'd obviously get a similar, if not bigger, gap before beginning the next era.

    NTTD gap... well. It wasn't deliberate.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited March 1 Posts: 40,968
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Hell, we've had some large gaps in the latter half of the Craig era alone; it stands to reason that we'd obviously get a similar, if not bigger, gap before beginning the next era.

    NTTD gap... well. It wasn't deliberate.

    Apply whatever reasoning you'd prefer, but 3-6 year gaps between films in one era should make it obvious it'd be at least 3-6 years before the next era begins too.
  • Posts: 1,332
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Hell, we've had some large gaps in the latter half of the Craig era alone; it stands to reason that we'd obviously get a similar, if not bigger, gap before beginning the next era.

    NTTD gap... well. It wasn't deliberate.

    Apply whatever reasoning you'd prefer, but 3-6 year gaps between films in one era should make it obvious it'd be at least 3-6 years before the next era begins too.

    Why?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Hell, we've had some large gaps in the latter half of the Craig era alone; it stands to reason that we'd obviously get a similar, if not bigger, gap before beginning the next era.

    NTTD gap... well. It wasn't deliberate.

    Apply whatever reasoning you'd prefer, but 3-6 year gaps between films in one era should make it obvious it'd be at least 3-6 years before the next era begins too.

    Why?

    ...unless you genuinely believed that despite such gaps and delays, they'd really steamroll through after NTTD and deliver a new era in a year or two? If that's the case, you only set yourself up for disappointment, because that was never going to happen, regardless of how Craig's tenure ended.
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