Where does Bond go after Craig?

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Comments

  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    That’s an impressive resume he’s got @peter. Oo I’ve also just seen he’s involved in the script for Fantastic Four apparently. I’m not a huge Marvel fan but if you cast Vanessa Kirby, I’m there regardless, and it’s gonna be directed by Matt Shakman, who himself fits quite nicely into what we’re exploring here. He directed WandaVision, another rare Marvel project that I actually quite enjoyed, but also directed episodes for Game Of Thrones, that new Godzilla series, Bad Boys, Succession, and even It’s Always Sunny! To circle it back round it just goes to show again how possible versatility is, and how no matter how a writer/director/actor may come across to you, they can always turn around tomorrow and surprise you.

    Thinking about it, maybe we should be considering Shakman for a future Bond gig after FF?

    Very true on all counts (especially Kirby, 😂 )…!
    I’m hoping MI hasn’t excluded her from maybe being in a James Bond film in the future 🤞🏻
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    That’s an impressive resume he’s got @peter. Oo I’ve also just seen he’s involved in the script for Fantastic Four apparently. I’m not a huge Marvel fan but if you cast Vanessa Kirby, I’m there regardless, and it’s gonna be directed by Matt Shakman, who himself fits quite nicely into what we’re exploring here. He directed WandaVision, another rare Marvel project that I actually quite enjoyed, but also directed episodes for Game Of Thrones, that new Godzilla series, Bad Boys, Succession, and even It’s Always Sunny! To circle it back round it just goes to show again how possible versatility is, and how no matter how a writer/director/actor may come across to you, they can always turn around tomorrow and surprise you.

    Thinking about it, maybe we should be considering Shakman for a future Bond gig after FF?

    Very true on all counts (especially Kirby, 😂 )…!
    I’m hoping MI hasn’t excluded her from maybe being in a James Bond film in the future 🤞🏻

    Very true, @Denbigh … I’d love for her to play some imposing force in Bond (not necessarily a villain, although…. But even an ally with her own agenda)…
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    That’s an impressive resume he’s got @peter. Oo I’ve also just seen he’s involved in the script for Fantastic Four apparently. I’m not a huge Marvel fan but if you cast Vanessa Kirby, I’m there regardless, and it’s gonna be directed by Matt Shakman, who himself fits quite nicely into what we’re exploring here. He directed WandaVision, another rare Marvel project that I actually quite enjoyed, but also directed episodes for Game Of Thrones, that new Godzilla series, Bad Boys, Succession, and even It’s Always Sunny! To circle it back round it just goes to show again how possible versatility is, and how no matter how a writer/director/actor may come across to you, they can always turn around tomorrow and surprise you.

    Thinking about it, maybe we should be considering Shakman for a future Bond gig after FF?

    Very true on all counts (especially Kirby, 😂 )…!
    I’m hoping MI hasn’t excluded her from maybe being in a James Bond film in the future 🤞🏻

    Very true, @Denbigh … I’d love for her to play some imposing force in Bond (not necessarily a villain, although…. But even an ally with her own agenda)…
    100% that’d be great. Although don’t expect that if Callum Turner is Bond ;)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    That’s an impressive resume he’s got @peter. Oo I’ve also just seen he’s involved in the script for Fantastic Four apparently. I’m not a huge Marvel fan but if you cast Vanessa Kirby, I’m there regardless, and it’s gonna be directed by Matt Shakman, who himself fits quite nicely into what we’re exploring here. He directed WandaVision, another rare Marvel project that I actually quite enjoyed, but also directed episodes for Game Of Thrones, that new Godzilla series, Bad Boys, Succession, and even It’s Always Sunny! To circle it back round it just goes to show again how possible versatility is, and how no matter how a writer/director/actor may come across to you, they can always turn around tomorrow and surprise you.

    Thinking about it, maybe we should be considering Shakman for a future Bond gig after FF?

    Very true on all counts (especially Kirby, 😂 )…!
    I’m hoping MI hasn’t excluded her from maybe being in a James Bond film in the future 🤞🏻

    Very true, @Denbigh … I’d love for her to play some imposing force in Bond (not necessarily a villain, although…. But even an ally with her own agenda)…
    100% that’d be great. Although don’t expect that if Callum Turner is Bond ;)

    😂, true!! I think that’d be a little tense. But…, then again….

    …..in that off the wall and bizarre series, Preacher, the leads Ruth Negga (who was Craig’s Lady MacBeth), and Dominic Cooper were a serious item, broke up, then shortly thereafter played ex-lovers (who were still in love and were inching back to each other), so it can be done… So who knows, @Denbigh ….??
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    That’s an impressive resume he’s got @peter. Oo I’ve also just seen he’s involved in the script for Fantastic Four apparently. I’m not a huge Marvel fan but if you cast Vanessa Kirby, I’m there regardless, and it’s gonna be directed by Matt Shakman, who himself fits quite nicely into what we’re exploring here. He directed WandaVision, another rare Marvel project that I actually quite enjoyed, but also directed episodes for Game Of Thrones, that new Godzilla series, Bad Boys, Succession, and even It’s Always Sunny! To circle it back round it just goes to show again how possible versatility is, and how no matter how a writer/director/actor may come across to you, they can always turn around tomorrow and surprise you.

    Thinking about it, maybe we should be considering Shakman for a future Bond gig after FF?

    Very true on all counts (especially Kirby, 😂 )…!
    I’m hoping MI hasn’t excluded her from maybe being in a James Bond film in the future 🤞🏻

    Very true, @Denbigh … I’d love for her to play some imposing force in Bond (not necessarily a villain, although…. But even an ally with her own agenda)…
    100% that’d be great. Although don’t expect that if Callum Turner is Bond ;)

    😂, true!! I think that’d be a little tense. But…, then again….

    …..in that off the wall and bizarre series, Preacher, the leads Ruth Negga (who was Craig’s Lady MacBeth), and Dominic Cooper were a serious item, broke up, then shortly thereafter played ex-lovers (who were still in love and were inching back to each other), so it can be done… So who knows, @Denbigh ….??
    Never say never… ;)

    Ruth Negga is another actress who’d be amazing. She’d be an incredible main villain I think.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    That’s an impressive resume he’s got @peter. Oo I’ve also just seen he’s involved in the script for Fantastic Four apparently. I’m not a huge Marvel fan but if you cast Vanessa Kirby, I’m there regardless, and it’s gonna be directed by Matt Shakman, who himself fits quite nicely into what we’re exploring here. He directed WandaVision, another rare Marvel project that I actually quite enjoyed, but also directed episodes for Game Of Thrones, that new Godzilla series, Bad Boys, Succession, and even It’s Always Sunny! To circle it back round it just goes to show again how possible versatility is, and how no matter how a writer/director/actor may come across to you, they can always turn around tomorrow and surprise you.

    Thinking about it, maybe we should be considering Shakman for a future Bond gig after FF?

    Very true on all counts (especially Kirby, 😂 )…!
    I’m hoping MI hasn’t excluded her from maybe being in a James Bond film in the future 🤞🏻

    Very true, @Denbigh … I’d love for her to play some imposing force in Bond (not necessarily a villain, although…. But even an ally with her own agenda)…
    100% that’d be great. Although don’t expect that if Callum Turner is Bond ;)

    😂, true!! I think that’d be a little tense. But…, then again….

    …..in that off the wall and bizarre series, Preacher, the leads Ruth Negga (who was Craig’s Lady MacBeth), and Dominic Cooper were a serious item, broke up, then shortly thereafter played ex-lovers (who were still in love and were inching back to each other), so it can be done… So who knows, @Denbigh ….??
    Never say never… ;)

    Ruth Negga is another actress who’d be amazing. She’d be an incredible main villain I think.

    @Denbigh , my wife and I were front row seats for MacBeth…. She was unbelievable and she delivered the humour with a lovely, biting, darkness.

    She was, without a doubt, the sexiest, coolest, Lady MacBeth I’ve ever had the pleasure of watching.

    She and Craig filled that stage, and although the company was very strong (minus one actor), they were no match for these two giants. It was an incredible experience, and yes, I agree, she’d be a devil vs Mr. Bond.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited March 29 Posts: 5,970
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    That’s an impressive resume he’s got @peter. Oo I’ve also just seen he’s involved in the script for Fantastic Four apparently. I’m not a huge Marvel fan but if you cast Vanessa Kirby, I’m there regardless, and it’s gonna be directed by Matt Shakman, who himself fits quite nicely into what we’re exploring here. He directed WandaVision, another rare Marvel project that I actually quite enjoyed, but also directed episodes for Game Of Thrones, that new Godzilla series, Bad Boys, Succession, and even It’s Always Sunny! To circle it back round it just goes to show again how possible versatility is, and how no matter how a writer/director/actor may come across to you, they can always turn around tomorrow and surprise you.

    Thinking about it, maybe we should be considering Shakman for a future Bond gig after FF?

    Very true on all counts (especially Kirby, 😂 )…!
    I’m hoping MI hasn’t excluded her from maybe being in a James Bond film in the future 🤞🏻

    Very true, @Denbigh … I’d love for her to play some imposing force in Bond (not necessarily a villain, although…. But even an ally with her own agenda)…
    100% that’d be great. Although don’t expect that if Callum Turner is Bond ;)

    😂, true!! I think that’d be a little tense. But…, then again….

    …..in that off the wall and bizarre series, Preacher, the leads Ruth Negga (who was Craig’s Lady MacBeth), and Dominic Cooper were a serious item, broke up, then shortly thereafter played ex-lovers (who were still in love and were inching back to each other), so it can be done… So who knows, @Denbigh ….??
    Never say never… ;)

    Ruth Negga is another actress who’d be amazing. She’d be an incredible main villain I think.

    @Denbigh , my wife and I were front row seats for MacBeth…. She was unbelievable and she delivered the humour with a lovely, biting, darkness.

    She was, without a doubt, the sexiest, coolest, Lady MacBeth I’ve ever had the pleasure of watching.

    She and Craig filled that stage, and although the company was very strong (minus one actor), they were no match for these two giants. It was an incredible experience, and yes, I agree, she’d be a devil vs Mr. Bond.
    I'm so jealous @peter, I would've love to have seen that performance. I think I've seen nearly every single adaptation of Macbeth that's been on screen, within reason. I can only imagine how electric it must've felt to see those two together playing those roles and saying those words. I'm also a big fan of seeing how each adaptation carries out the banquet. One of my favourite versions of that sequence is in Justin Kurzels' 2015 version starring Fassbender and Cotillard.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    That’s an impressive resume he’s got @peter. Oo I’ve also just seen he’s involved in the script for Fantastic Four apparently. I’m not a huge Marvel fan but if you cast Vanessa Kirby, I’m there regardless, and it’s gonna be directed by Matt Shakman, who himself fits quite nicely into what we’re exploring here. He directed WandaVision, another rare Marvel project that I actually quite enjoyed, but also directed episodes for Game Of Thrones, that new Godzilla series, Bad Boys, Succession, and even It’s Always Sunny! To circle it back round it just goes to show again how possible versatility is, and how no matter how a writer/director/actor may come across to you, they can always turn around tomorrow and surprise you.

    Thinking about it, maybe we should be considering Shakman for a future Bond gig after FF?

    Very true on all counts (especially Kirby, 😂 )…!
    I’m hoping MI hasn’t excluded her from maybe being in a James Bond film in the future 🤞🏻

    Very true, @Denbigh … I’d love for her to play some imposing force in Bond (not necessarily a villain, although…. But even an ally with her own agenda)…
    100% that’d be great. Although don’t expect that if Callum Turner is Bond ;)

    😂, true!! I think that’d be a little tense. But…, then again….

    …..in that off the wall and bizarre series, Preacher, the leads Ruth Negga (who was Craig’s Lady MacBeth), and Dominic Cooper were a serious item, broke up, then shortly thereafter played ex-lovers (who were still in love and were inching back to each other), so it can be done… So who knows, @Denbigh ….??
    Never say never… ;)

    Ruth Negga is another actress who’d be amazing. She’d be an incredible main villain I think.

    @Denbigh , my wife and I were front row seats for MacBeth…. She was unbelievable and she delivered the humour with a lovely, biting, darkness.

    She was, without a doubt, the sexiest, coolest, Lady MacBeth I’ve ever had the pleasure of watching.

    She and Craig filled that stage, and although the company was very strong (minus one actor), they were no match for these two giants. It was an incredible experience, and yes, I agree, she’d be a devil vs Mr. Bond.
    I'm so jealous @peter, I would've love to have seen that performance. I think I've seen nearly every single adaptation of Macbeth that's been on screen, within reason. I can only imagine how electric it must've felt to see those two together playing those roles and saying those words. I'm also a big fan of seeing how each adaptation carries out the banquet. One of my favourite versions of that sequence is in Justin Kurzels' 2015 version starring Fassbender and Cotillard.

    The banquet scene was done with great humour. Like Lady M is being embarrassed by the ramblings of her deranged husband. The theatre was laughing out loud, and Negga was absolutely delicious. It was so well played.

    I’ve actually never seen Fassbender/Cotillard! It’s now on my agenda.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited March 29 Posts: 5,970
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    That’s an impressive resume he’s got @peter. Oo I’ve also just seen he’s involved in the script for Fantastic Four apparently. I’m not a huge Marvel fan but if you cast Vanessa Kirby, I’m there regardless, and it’s gonna be directed by Matt Shakman, who himself fits quite nicely into what we’re exploring here. He directed WandaVision, another rare Marvel project that I actually quite enjoyed, but also directed episodes for Game Of Thrones, that new Godzilla series, Bad Boys, Succession, and even It’s Always Sunny! To circle it back round it just goes to show again how possible versatility is, and how no matter how a writer/director/actor may come across to you, they can always turn around tomorrow and surprise you.

    Thinking about it, maybe we should be considering Shakman for a future Bond gig after FF?

    Very true on all counts (especially Kirby, 😂 )…!
    I’m hoping MI hasn’t excluded her from maybe being in a James Bond film in the future 🤞🏻

    Very true, @Denbigh … I’d love for her to play some imposing force in Bond (not necessarily a villain, although…. But even an ally with her own agenda)…
    100% that’d be great. Although don’t expect that if Callum Turner is Bond ;)

    😂, true!! I think that’d be a little tense. But…, then again….

    …..in that off the wall and bizarre series, Preacher, the leads Ruth Negga (who was Craig’s Lady MacBeth), and Dominic Cooper were a serious item, broke up, then shortly thereafter played ex-lovers (who were still in love and were inching back to each other), so it can be done… So who knows, @Denbigh ….??
    Never say never… ;)

    Ruth Negga is another actress who’d be amazing. She’d be an incredible main villain I think.

    @Denbigh , my wife and I were front row seats for MacBeth…. She was unbelievable and she delivered the humour with a lovely, biting, darkness.

    She was, without a doubt, the sexiest, coolest, Lady MacBeth I’ve ever had the pleasure of watching.

    She and Craig filled that stage, and although the company was very strong (minus one actor), they were no match for these two giants. It was an incredible experience, and yes, I agree, she’d be a devil vs Mr. Bond.
    I'm so jealous @peter, I would've love to have seen that performance. I think I've seen nearly every single adaptation of Macbeth that's been on screen, within reason. I can only imagine how electric it must've felt to see those two together playing those roles and saying those words. I'm also a big fan of seeing how each adaptation carries out the banquet. One of my favourite versions of that sequence is in Justin Kurzels' 2015 version starring Fassbender and Cotillard.

    The banquet scene was done with great humour. Like Lady M is being embarrassed by the ramblings of her deranged husband. The theatre was laughing out loud, and Negga was absolutely delicious. It was so well played.

    I’ve actually never seen Fassbender/Cotillard! It’s now on my agenda.
    Oo I don’t think I’ve ever seen it played that way. Interesting!

    And oh yeah you have to! It’s one of my personal favourite adaptations and just operates on so many levels, not just story but in terms of production etc. Amazing! And in terms of scriptwriting, they play around with some of their own subtext.



    I also recommend Joel Coen’s version with Denzel Washington and Frances McDormand.
  • edited March 29 Posts: 4,137
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    But again, Gilbert was a ‘dramatist’. And one of Young’s big contributions to the films was helping introduce the broader humour.

    What you’re describing with those examples is (kind of) an evolution of the film Bond and its humour… sort of.

    Exactly my point. Why would we evolve the humour by taking it back to 1962? that's just nonsensical. The bond humour, I would say, evolved from the early 60's until moonraker and then it stagnated like still water, we should be moving forward not back.

    Not sure if I’d want to go back to some of the more self referential humour of post MR Bond (Tarzan whistles etc). That said I do think OP had a cool blending of humour and darkness in the form of the clown costume climax. That and I certainly can’t imagine anything like the ‘you died scratching my halls’ pre-Craig. So I don’t think it’s fair to say Bond humour stopped changing past MR.

    Huh. That's actually a neat example, because technically humour IS driving the scene, despite how uncomfortable the scenario.

    But essentially the humour progressed quite rapidly from 1962 and 1979, and then slowed to a crawl. That's why, say the casino scene in Skyfall when Bond jumps on the crocodile thing (sorry, I don't watch Skyfall often) and says "put it all on red" people roll their eyes, but then they say "let's go back to the early connery humour :D " which is an even older stage in the evolution, as you yourself stated. It's illogical IMO. If we want to evolve the humour in bond films, we need to move forward from the point where it started to stagnate, which I'd argue was the late 70's.

    (On another note, I'd love for the self referential humour to return to some extent. I don't need a double taking pigeon or slide whistle, but a little note playing when Bond smiles, and music as the ripped up truck meanders along in the desert was fantasy bond at its finest, I would revel in something like that again.)

    I mean, if you want another example, NTTD creates humour by subverting expectations (ie. Paloma actually being a good agent and not a ditz, Bond delivering his iconic line to a bored security guard etc). That’s an evolution too surely?

    You’ve also talked about Craig Bond’s comparative sarcasm/(or ‘grumpiness’) compared to his predecessors. That’s kinda a different take on that Bondian humour/attitude too you can argue
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 29 Posts: 8,395
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    But again, Gilbert was a ‘dramatist’. And one of Young’s big contributions to the films was helping introduce the broader humour.

    What you’re describing with those examples is (kind of) an evolution of the film Bond and its humour… sort of.

    Exactly my point. Why would we evolve the humour by taking it back to 1962? that's just nonsensical. The bond humour, I would say, evolved from the early 60's until moonraker and then it stagnated like still water, we should be moving forward not back.

    Not sure if I’d want to go back to some of the more self referential humour of post MR Bond (Tarzan whistles etc). That said I do think OP had a cool blending of humour and darkness in the form of the clown costume climax. That and I certainly can’t imagine anything like the ‘you died scratching my halls’ pre-Craig. So I don’t think it’s fair to say Bond humour stopped changing past MR.

    Huh. That's actually a neat example, because technically humour IS driving the scene, despite how uncomfortable the scenario.

    But essentially the humour progressed quite rapidly from 1962 and 1979, and then slowed to a crawl. That's why, say the casino scene in Skyfall when Bond jumps on the crocodile thing (sorry, I don't watch Skyfall often) and says "put it all on red" people roll their eyes, but then they say "let's go back to the early connery humour :D " which is an even older stage in the evolution, as you yourself stated. It's illogical IMO. If we want to evolve the humour in bond films, we need to move forward from the point where it started to stagnate, which I'd argue was the late 70's.

    (On another note, I'd love for the self referential humour to return to some extent. I don't need a double taking pigeon or slide whistle, but a little note playing when Bond smiles, and music as the ripped up truck meanders along in the desert was fantasy bond at its finest, I would revel in something like that again.)

    I mean, if you want another example, NTTD creates humour by subverting expectations (ie. Paloma actually being a good agent and not a ditz, Bond delivering his iconic line to a bored security guard etc). That’s an evolution too surely?

    I don't really follow the first one as an example of subverting expectations because Bond girls have always been capable. Honey was capable, Pussy was capable, Tracy was capable, Anya was capable, Melina was capable, Natalya was capable, Wai Lin was capable. It's more of a casual fans misconception that bond girls are all airhead damsels, not that I'm calling you a casual fan ofcourse. :)

    EDIT: @007HallY It's just occurred to me that we're talking about separate things. You're talking about how Craigs films subverts the classic humour style, and I'm talking about forwarding that style onto the next step, so it's something different. You can subvert until the cows come home, but that doesn't change the unlying value of the thing - it's still the same. I want to change THAT thing, to evolve it, as the humour of goldfinger was an evolution from Dr No, not a subvertion.
  • Posts: 4,137
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    But again, Gilbert was a ‘dramatist’. And one of Young’s big contributions to the films was helping introduce the broader humour.

    What you’re describing with those examples is (kind of) an evolution of the film Bond and its humour… sort of.

    Exactly my point. Why would we evolve the humour by taking it back to 1962? that's just nonsensical. The bond humour, I would say, evolved from the early 60's until moonraker and then it stagnated like still water, we should be moving forward not back.

    Not sure if I’d want to go back to some of the more self referential humour of post MR Bond (Tarzan whistles etc). That said I do think OP had a cool blending of humour and darkness in the form of the clown costume climax. That and I certainly can’t imagine anything like the ‘you died scratching my halls’ pre-Craig. So I don’t think it’s fair to say Bond humour stopped changing past MR.

    Huh. That's actually a neat example, because technically humour IS driving the scene, despite how uncomfortable the scenario.

    But essentially the humour progressed quite rapidly from 1962 and 1979, and then slowed to a crawl. That's why, say the casino scene in Skyfall when Bond jumps on the crocodile thing (sorry, I don't watch Skyfall often) and says "put it all on red" people roll their eyes, but then they say "let's go back to the early connery humour :D " which is an even older stage in the evolution, as you yourself stated. It's illogical IMO. If we want to evolve the humour in bond films, we need to move forward from the point where it started to stagnate, which I'd argue was the late 70's.

    (On another note, I'd love for the self referential humour to return to some extent. I don't need a double taking pigeon or slide whistle, but a little note playing when Bond smiles, and music as the ripped up truck meanders along in the desert was fantasy bond at its finest, I would revel in something like that again.)

    I mean, if you want another example, NTTD creates humour by subverting expectations (ie. Paloma actually being a good agent and not a ditz, Bond delivering his iconic line to a bored security guard etc). That’s an evolution too surely?

    I don't really follow the first one as an example of subverting expectations because Bond girls have always been capable. Honey was capable, Pussy was capable, Tracy was capable, Anya was capable, Melina was capable, Natalya was capable, Wai Lin was capable. It's more of a casual fans misconception that bond girls are all airhead damsels, not that I'm calling you a casual fan ofcourse. :)

    EDIT: @007HallY It's just occurred to me that we're talking about separate things. You're talking about how Craigs films subverts the classic humour style, and I'm talking about forwarding that style onto the next step, so it's something different. You can subvert until the cows come home, but that doesn't change the unlying value of the thing - it's still the same. I want to change THAT thing, to evolve it, as the humour of goldfinger was an evolution from Dr No, not a subvertion.

    Ok. That’s convenient 😂

    My two pence on this is: not every Bond girl has been capable throughout their films. Mary Goodnight and Tiffany Case for instance actually create obstructs for Bond through their bumbling. But you don’t need to have seen any other Bond film to get the joke with Paloma. We think she’s a ditz and she acts like it but is actually a confident agent. That’s it.

    Subverting expectations I’d say is an evolution of any franchise’s humour. I mean, on a basic level it’s different and twists what came before it. No need to move the goal posts. If you don’t like that example see my second one. We can agree to disagree otherwise :)
  • Posts: 9,846
    I… i cant read all that but what i can say is uhm @peter can you recommend something to rake away the pain of 3 pages being filled up with no new news item i am guessing alcohol


    In all honesty its spring time relax everyone go outs side read a book enjoy fresh air
  • edited March 29 Posts: 6,709
    Risico007 wrote: »
    I… i cant read all that but what i can say is uhm @peter can you recommend something to rake away the pain of 3 pages being filled up with no new news item i am guessing alcohol


    In all honesty its spring time relax everyone go outs side read a book enjoy fresh air

    I, for one, have a Lagavulin 16 in front of me right now and a cigar, under the threes in the garden at evening. Right now, I’ll just make a toast to EON and to the task in hands. Take your time, make it count. We’ll be here. That’s all.
  • edited March 29 Posts: 9,846


    Here is the new 007 its official ;)


    (Man the 80’s had all the great shows)
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,785
    There is a rumour going around that there will be another Bond film. Just speculation for now but I'm confident when the powers be discover a decent successor to Craig there will be news! Haven't a clue who that can possibly be but I don't believe any of the current gossip.If memory recalls no one outside of EON had any idea about Craig until just before the announcement but I may be wrong
    I stayed up all night waiting for the sun to rise.

    And then it dawned on me.



  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    There is a rumour going around that there will be another Bond film. Just speculation for now but I'm confident when the powers be discover a decent successor to Craig there will be news! Haven't a clue who that can possibly be but I don't believe any of the current gossip.If memory recalls no one outside of EON had any idea about Craig until just before the announcement but I may be wrong
    I stayed up all night waiting for the sun to rise.

    And then it dawned on me.



    I was there. I saw it, too.
  • edited March 30 Posts: 1,980
    Clearly, humor is a serious business. Does anyone know what specific flashes of humorous brilliance PWB brought to NTTD?
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    But again, Gilbert was a ‘dramatist’. And one of Young’s big contributions to the films was helping introduce the broader humour.

    What you’re describing with those examples is (kind of) an evolution of the film Bond and its humour… sort of.

    Exactly my point. Why would we evolve the humour by taking it back to 1962? that's just nonsensical. The bond humour, I would say, evolved from the early 60's until moonraker and then it stagnated like still water, we should be moving forward not back.

    Not sure if I’d want to go back to some of the more self referential humour of post MR Bond (Tarzan whistles etc). That said I do think OP had a cool blending of humour and darkness in the form of the clown costume climax. That and I certainly can’t imagine anything like the ‘you died scratching my halls’ pre-Craig. So I don’t think it’s fair to say Bond humour stopped changing past MR.

    Huh. That's actually a neat example, because technically humour IS driving the scene, despite how uncomfortable the scenario.

    But essentially the humour progressed quite rapidly from 1962 and 1979, and then slowed to a crawl. That's why, say the casino scene in Skyfall when Bond jumps on the crocodile thing (sorry, I don't watch Skyfall often) and says "put it all on red" people roll their eyes, but then they say "let's go back to the early connery humour :D " which is an even older stage in the evolution, as you yourself stated. It's illogical IMO. If we want to evolve the humour in bond films, we need to move forward from the point where it started to stagnate, which I'd argue was the late 70's.

    (On another note, I'd love for the self referential humour to return to some extent. I don't need a double taking pigeon or slide whistle, but a little note playing when Bond smiles, and music as the ripped up truck meanders along in the desert was fantasy bond at its finest, I would revel in something like that again.)

    I mean, if you want another example, NTTD creates humour by subverting expectations (ie. Paloma actually being a good agent and not a ditz, Bond delivering his iconic line to a bored security guard etc). That’s an evolution too surely?

    I don't really follow the first one as an example of subverting expectations because Bond girls have always been capable. Honey was capable, Pussy was capable, Tracy was capable, Anya was capable, Melina was capable, Natalya was capable, Wai Lin was capable. It's more of a casual fans misconception that bond girls are all airhead damsels, not that I'm calling you a casual fan ofcourse. :)

    EDIT: @007HallY It's just occurred to me that we're talking about separate things. You're talking about how Craigs films subverts the classic humour style, and I'm talking about forwarding that style onto the next step, so it's something different. You can subvert until the cows come home, but that doesn't change the unlying value of the thing - it's still the same. I want to change THAT thing, to evolve it, as the humour of goldfinger was an evolution from Dr No, not a subvertion.

    Ok. That’s convenient 😂

    My two pence on this is: not every Bond girl has been capable throughout their films. Mary Goodnight and Tiffany Case for instance actually create obstructs for Bond through their bumbling. But you don’t need to have seen any other Bond film to get the joke with Paloma. We think she’s a ditz and she acts like it but is actually a confident agent. That’s it.

    Subverting expectations I’d say is an evolution of any franchise’s humour. I mean, on a basic level it’s different and twists what came before it. No need to move the goal posts. If you don’t like that example see my second one. We can agree to disagree otherwise :)

    At the end of the day we all just want a good Bond film, preferably under 140 minutes! :-bd
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    But again, Gilbert was a ‘dramatist’. And one of Young’s big contributions to the films was helping introduce the broader humour.

    What you’re describing with those examples is (kind of) an evolution of the film Bond and its humour… sort of.

    Exactly my point. Why would we evolve the humour by taking it back to 1962? that's just nonsensical. The bond humour, I would say, evolved from the early 60's until moonraker and then it stagnated like still water, we should be moving forward not back.

    Not sure if I’d want to go back to some of the more self referential humour of post MR Bond (Tarzan whistles etc). That said I do think OP had a cool blending of humour and darkness in the form of the clown costume climax. That and I certainly can’t imagine anything like the ‘you died scratching my halls’ pre-Craig. So I don’t think it’s fair to say Bond humour stopped changing past MR.

    Huh. That's actually a neat example, because technically humour IS driving the scene, despite how uncomfortable the scenario.

    But essentially the humour progressed quite rapidly from 1962 and 1979, and then slowed to a crawl. That's why, say the casino scene in Skyfall when Bond jumps on the crocodile thing (sorry, I don't watch Skyfall often) and says "put it all on red" people roll their eyes, but then they say "let's go back to the early connery humour :D " which is an even older stage in the evolution, as you yourself stated. It's illogical IMO. If we want to evolve the humour in bond films, we need to move forward from the point where it started to stagnate, which I'd argue was the late 70's.

    (On another note, I'd love for the self referential humour to return to some extent. I don't need a double taking pigeon or slide whistle, but a little note playing when Bond smiles, and music as the ripped up truck meanders along in the desert was fantasy bond at its finest, I would revel in something like that again.)

    I mean, if you want another example, NTTD creates humour by subverting expectations (ie. Paloma actually being a good agent and not a ditz, Bond delivering his iconic line to a bored security guard etc). That’s an evolution too surely?

    I don't really follow the first one as an example of subverting expectations because Bond girls have always been capable. Honey was capable, Pussy was capable, Tracy was capable, Anya was capable, Melina was capable, Natalya was capable, Wai Lin was capable. It's more of a casual fans misconception that bond girls are all airhead damsels, not that I'm calling you a casual fan ofcourse. :)

    EDIT: @007HallY It's just occurred to me that we're talking about separate things. You're talking about how Craigs films subverts the classic humour style, and I'm talking about forwarding that style onto the next step, so it's something different. You can subvert until the cows come home, but that doesn't change the unlying value of the thing - it's still the same. I want to change THAT thing, to evolve it, as the humour of goldfinger was an evolution from Dr No, not a subvertion.

    Ok. That’s convenient 😂

    My two pence on this is: not every Bond girl has been capable throughout their films. Mary Goodnight and Tiffany Case for instance actually create obstructs for Bond through their bumbling. But you don’t need to have seen any other Bond film to get the joke with Paloma. We think she’s a ditz and she acts like it but is actually a confident agent. That’s it.

    Subverting expectations I’d say is an evolution of any franchise’s humour. I mean, on a basic level it’s different and twists what came before it. No need to move the goal posts. If you don’t like that example see my second one. We can agree to disagree otherwise :)

    At the end of the day we all just want a good Bond film, preferably under 140 minutes! :-bd

    No, YOU want a film under 140 minutes. And no matter how often others point out that they don't care as long as the film is good, you refuse to accept that.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    But again, Gilbert was a ‘dramatist’. And one of Young’s big contributions to the films was helping introduce the broader humour.

    What you’re describing with those examples is (kind of) an evolution of the film Bond and its humour… sort of.

    Exactly my point. Why would we evolve the humour by taking it back to 1962? that's just nonsensical. The bond humour, I would say, evolved from the early 60's until moonraker and then it stagnated like still water, we should be moving forward not back.

    Not sure if I’d want to go back to some of the more self referential humour of post MR Bond (Tarzan whistles etc). That said I do think OP had a cool blending of humour and darkness in the form of the clown costume climax. That and I certainly can’t imagine anything like the ‘you died scratching my halls’ pre-Craig. So I don’t think it’s fair to say Bond humour stopped changing past MR.

    Huh. That's actually a neat example, because technically humour IS driving the scene, despite how uncomfortable the scenario.

    But essentially the humour progressed quite rapidly from 1962 and 1979, and then slowed to a crawl. That's why, say the casino scene in Skyfall when Bond jumps on the crocodile thing (sorry, I don't watch Skyfall often) and says "put it all on red" people roll their eyes, but then they say "let's go back to the early connery humour :D " which is an even older stage in the evolution, as you yourself stated. It's illogical IMO. If we want to evolve the humour in bond films, we need to move forward from the point where it started to stagnate, which I'd argue was the late 70's.

    (On another note, I'd love for the self referential humour to return to some extent. I don't need a double taking pigeon or slide whistle, but a little note playing when Bond smiles, and music as the ripped up truck meanders along in the desert was fantasy bond at its finest, I would revel in something like that again.)

    I mean, if you want another example, NTTD creates humour by subverting expectations (ie. Paloma actually being a good agent and not a ditz, Bond delivering his iconic line to a bored security guard etc). That’s an evolution too surely?

    I don't really follow the first one as an example of subverting expectations because Bond girls have always been capable. Honey was capable, Pussy was capable, Tracy was capable, Anya was capable, Melina was capable, Natalya was capable, Wai Lin was capable. It's more of a casual fans misconception that bond girls are all airhead damsels, not that I'm calling you a casual fan ofcourse. :)

    EDIT: @007HallY It's just occurred to me that we're talking about separate things. You're talking about how Craigs films subverts the classic humour style, and I'm talking about forwarding that style onto the next step, so it's something different. You can subvert until the cows come home, but that doesn't change the unlying value of the thing - it's still the same. I want to change THAT thing, to evolve it, as the humour of goldfinger was an evolution from Dr No, not a subvertion.

    Ok. That’s convenient 😂

    My two pence on this is: not every Bond girl has been capable throughout their films. Mary Goodnight and Tiffany Case for instance actually create obstructs for Bond through their bumbling. But you don’t need to have seen any other Bond film to get the joke with Paloma. We think she’s a ditz and she acts like it but is actually a confident agent. That’s it.

    Subverting expectations I’d say is an evolution of any franchise’s humour. I mean, on a basic level it’s different and twists what came before it. No need to move the goal posts. If you don’t like that example see my second one. We can agree to disagree otherwise :)

    At the end of the day we all just want a good Bond film, preferably under 140 minutes! :-bd

    No, YOU want a film under 140 minutes. And no matter how often others point out that they don't care as long as the film is good, you refuse to accept that.

    I know, @DarthDimi ... I always love how @Mendes4Lyfe is always telling us what "we" want, 😂!
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 30 Posts: 8,395
    I will say this, when we talk about "where to take bond after Craig?"

    The current bond lost his best friend, his other best friend, the love of his life, his boss and died before his daughter could learn his name. If there is a creative bottleneck for the bond series at the moment, it isn't coming from a "dramatic" angle. In 2002 bond was still the unflappable superspy, and that was what hamstrung EON in the type of stories they could tell, because bond could never truly be affected by what he experienced, and the story of Casino Royale was basically them breaking that taboo. Flashforward to today, and what is the bottleneck now? what is keeping them from breaking new ground? For me it comes not from the dramatic, as it did with Craig, but from the comedic side. In the same way that the brosnan films couldn't take themselves seriously enough, and it hampered them from The World Is Not Enough onwards, modern bond can't be fanciful and stylised enough, and it means that a lot of potential great story opportunities are left on the table as a result. The next Bond has to address this balance IMO.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Clearly, humor is a serious business. Does anyone know what specific flashes of humorous brilliance PWB brought to NTTD?
    No, but I'd guess that 'Not the first thing I thought you'd take off', Bond giving his name to the security bloke on reception, 'Has this desk got bigger or have you got smaller?' and 'I've just shown someone your watch' were Phoebe WB's work. That's just from having seen Fleabag years back, though, so could well be completely wrong on all of those!
  • CrabKey wrote: »
    Clearly, humor is a serious business. Does anyone know what specific flashes of humorous brilliance PWB brought to NTTD?

    Quite alot I suspect. Didn't she right the Bond name gag when he approaches the reception desk and the guy didn't recognise his name as he been away so long? If not this then she would certainly have been involved in the Nomi put downs of Bond when he is on the point of flirting.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Clearly, humor is a serious business. Does anyone know what specific flashes of humorous brilliance PWB brought to NTTD?

    Quite alot I suspect. Didn't she right the Bond name gag when he approaches the reception desk and the guy didn't recognise his name as he been away so long? If not this then she would certainly have been involved in the Nomi put downs of Bond when he is on the point of flirting.

    https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/phoebe-waller-bridge-shaped-no-time-to-die-plot-1234667662/

    Talented writer, she did a lot more than what has been discussed, hence why the WGA awarded her with a writing credit (in contrast, Scott Z Burns wasn’t credited for his work on NTTD)….
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    peter wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    But again, Gilbert was a ‘dramatist’. And one of Young’s big contributions to the films was helping introduce the broader humour.

    What you’re describing with those examples is (kind of) an evolution of the film Bond and its humour… sort of.

    Exactly my point. Why would we evolve the humour by taking it back to 1962? that's just nonsensical. The bond humour, I would say, evolved from the early 60's until moonraker and then it stagnated like still water, we should be moving forward not back.

    Not sure if I’d want to go back to some of the more self referential humour of post MR Bond (Tarzan whistles etc). That said I do think OP had a cool blending of humour and darkness in the form of the clown costume climax. That and I certainly can’t imagine anything like the ‘you died scratching my halls’ pre-Craig. So I don’t think it’s fair to say Bond humour stopped changing past MR.

    Huh. That's actually a neat example, because technically humour IS driving the scene, despite how uncomfortable the scenario.

    But essentially the humour progressed quite rapidly from 1962 and 1979, and then slowed to a crawl. That's why, say the casino scene in Skyfall when Bond jumps on the crocodile thing (sorry, I don't watch Skyfall often) and says "put it all on red" people roll their eyes, but then they say "let's go back to the early connery humour :D " which is an even older stage in the evolution, as you yourself stated. It's illogical IMO. If we want to evolve the humour in bond films, we need to move forward from the point where it started to stagnate, which I'd argue was the late 70's.

    (On another note, I'd love for the self referential humour to return to some extent. I don't need a double taking pigeon or slide whistle, but a little note playing when Bond smiles, and music as the ripped up truck meanders along in the desert was fantasy bond at its finest, I would revel in something like that again.)

    I mean, if you want another example, NTTD creates humour by subverting expectations (ie. Paloma actually being a good agent and not a ditz, Bond delivering his iconic line to a bored security guard etc). That’s an evolution too surely?

    I don't really follow the first one as an example of subverting expectations because Bond girls have always been capable. Honey was capable, Pussy was capable, Tracy was capable, Anya was capable, Melina was capable, Natalya was capable, Wai Lin was capable. It's more of a casual fans misconception that bond girls are all airhead damsels, not that I'm calling you a casual fan ofcourse. :)

    EDIT: @007HallY It's just occurred to me that we're talking about separate things. You're talking about how Craigs films subverts the classic humour style, and I'm talking about forwarding that style onto the next step, so it's something different. You can subvert until the cows come home, but that doesn't change the unlying value of the thing - it's still the same. I want to change THAT thing, to evolve it, as the humour of goldfinger was an evolution from Dr No, not a subvertion.

    Ok. That’s convenient 😂

    My two pence on this is: not every Bond girl has been capable throughout their films. Mary Goodnight and Tiffany Case for instance actually create obstructs for Bond through their bumbling. But you don’t need to have seen any other Bond film to get the joke with Paloma. We think she’s a ditz and she acts like it but is actually a confident agent. That’s it.

    Subverting expectations I’d say is an evolution of any franchise’s humour. I mean, on a basic level it’s different and twists what came before it. No need to move the goal posts. If you don’t like that example see my second one. We can agree to disagree otherwise :)

    At the end of the day we all just want a good Bond film, preferably under 140 minutes! :-bd

    No, YOU want a film under 140 minutes. And no matter how often others point out that they don't care as long as the film is good, you refuse to accept that.

    I know, @DarthDimi ... I always love how @Mendes4Lyfe is always telling us what "we" want, 😂!

    It's quite helpful, @peter. When someone asks me what I want out of my next Bond film, I simply have to refer to Mendes. Director, actor, length, story, what's wrong with NTTD, what youtuber to go to for "facts", ... I don't have to think for myself anymore because others "know" exactly what I want, what all Bond fans want, in fact. It's very creepy. I can even barf out the maths concerning logical release dates. The funny thing is that it has the opposite effects on me. I can't stand Turner, I almost want an unknown to direct the next film, I am hoping for a 3-hour film, and so on. And that's creepy too. Entitled fans who state their wishes as hard rules and who turn speculation into all but confirmed call-sheets and schedules, frighten me, to be honest.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    But again, Gilbert was a ‘dramatist’. And one of Young’s big contributions to the films was helping introduce the broader humour.

    What you’re describing with those examples is (kind of) an evolution of the film Bond and its humour… sort of.

    Exactly my point. Why would we evolve the humour by taking it back to 1962? that's just nonsensical. The bond humour, I would say, evolved from the early 60's until moonraker and then it stagnated like still water, we should be moving forward not back.

    Not sure if I’d want to go back to some of the more self referential humour of post MR Bond (Tarzan whistles etc). That said I do think OP had a cool blending of humour and darkness in the form of the clown costume climax. That and I certainly can’t imagine anything like the ‘you died scratching my halls’ pre-Craig. So I don’t think it’s fair to say Bond humour stopped changing past MR.

    Huh. That's actually a neat example, because technically humour IS driving the scene, despite how uncomfortable the scenario.

    But essentially the humour progressed quite rapidly from 1962 and 1979, and then slowed to a crawl. That's why, say the casino scene in Skyfall when Bond jumps on the crocodile thing (sorry, I don't watch Skyfall often) and says "put it all on red" people roll their eyes, but then they say "let's go back to the early connery humour :D " which is an even older stage in the evolution, as you yourself stated. It's illogical IMO. If we want to evolve the humour in bond films, we need to move forward from the point where it started to stagnate, which I'd argue was the late 70's.

    (On another note, I'd love for the self referential humour to return to some extent. I don't need a double taking pigeon or slide whistle, but a little note playing when Bond smiles, and music as the ripped up truck meanders along in the desert was fantasy bond at its finest, I would revel in something like that again.)

    I mean, if you want another example, NTTD creates humour by subverting expectations (ie. Paloma actually being a good agent and not a ditz, Bond delivering his iconic line to a bored security guard etc). That’s an evolution too surely?

    I don't really follow the first one as an example of subverting expectations because Bond girls have always been capable. Honey was capable, Pussy was capable, Tracy was capable, Anya was capable, Melina was capable, Natalya was capable, Wai Lin was capable. It's more of a casual fans misconception that bond girls are all airhead damsels, not that I'm calling you a casual fan ofcourse. :)

    EDIT: @007HallY It's just occurred to me that we're talking about separate things. You're talking about how Craigs films subverts the classic humour style, and I'm talking about forwarding that style onto the next step, so it's something different. You can subvert until the cows come home, but that doesn't change the unlying value of the thing - it's still the same. I want to change THAT thing, to evolve it, as the humour of goldfinger was an evolution from Dr No, not a subvertion.

    Ok. That’s convenient 😂

    My two pence on this is: not every Bond girl has been capable throughout their films. Mary Goodnight and Tiffany Case for instance actually create obstructs for Bond through their bumbling. But you don’t need to have seen any other Bond film to get the joke with Paloma. We think she’s a ditz and she acts like it but is actually a confident agent. That’s it.

    Subverting expectations I’d say is an evolution of any franchise’s humour. I mean, on a basic level it’s different and twists what came before it. No need to move the goal posts. If you don’t like that example see my second one. We can agree to disagree otherwise :)

    At the end of the day we all just want a good Bond film, preferably under 140 minutes! :-bd

    No, YOU want a film under 140 minutes. And no matter how often others point out that they don't care as long as the film is good, you refuse to accept that.

    I know, @DarthDimi ... I always love how @Mendes4Lyfe is always telling us what "we" want, 😂!

    It's quite helpful, @peter. When someone asks me what I want out of my next Bond film, I simply have to refer to Mendes. Director, actor, length, story, what's wrong with NTTD, what youtuber to go to for "facts", ... I don't have to think for myself anymore because others "know" exactly what I want, what all Bond fans want, in fact. It's very creepy. I can even barf out the maths concerning logical release dates. The funny thing is that it has the opposite effects on me. I can't stand Turner, I almost want an unknown to direct the next film, I am hoping for a 3-hour film, and so on. And that's creepy too. Entitled fans who state their wishes as hard rules and who turn speculation into all but confirmed call-sheets and schedules, frighten me, to be honest.

    We are seeing and feeling the exact same things…
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    One thing I do hope Bond 26 takes away from No Time To Die is its use of henchman (who are actual characters). It was just nice to have a few of them that time round and each of them were extremely distinctive.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited March 30 Posts: 6,290
    I will say this, when we talk about "where to take bond after Craig?"

    The current bond lost his best friend, his other best friend, the love of his life, his boss and died before his daughter could learn his name. If there is a creative bottleneck for the bond series at the moment, it isn't coming from a "dramatic" angle. In 2002 bond was still the unflappable superspy, and that was what hamstrung EON in the type of stories they could tell, because bond could never truly be affected by what he experienced, and the story of Casino Royale was basically them breaking that taboo.

    This is a bit hyperbolic. These events all happened in over 12 hours of screen time and over 15 years of real time.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    echo wrote: »
    I will say this, when we talk about "where to take bond after Craig?"

    The current bond lost his best friend, his other best friend, the love of his life, his boss and died before his daughter could learn his name. If there is a creative bottleneck for the bond series at the moment, it isn't coming from a "dramatic" angle. In 2002 bond was still the unflappable superspy, and that was what hamstrung EON in the type of stories they could tell, because bond could never truly be affected by what he experienced, and the story of Casino Royale was basically them breaking that taboo.

    This is a bit hyperbolic. These events all happened in over 12 hours of screen time and over 15 years of real time.

    They all died with him standing over them crying. What are the chances of that? :-O
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