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Yes because it reflects an implicit bias — associating the out-group with a negative trait.
Mysogyny? Seriously? Well, I apologize then.
In truth, I had two theatrical experiences destroyed by rows of, well, women spending most of the film talking ugly about other people. Both times they wouldn't be silenced. No "mysogyny" intended, friend. And may I also suggest you don't just drop accusations of mysogyny when someone is talking about gossiping women, @BMB007. I don't recall saying that all women are gossiping something-somethings who shouldn't be allowed in the theatre when we, men, are trying to enjoy a movie. That would be much closer to mysogyny. I merely referred to the people who have so far ruined a movie for me: loud teens, gossiping women, and folks who couldn't leave their smartphones pocketed and off.
Even more recent theatrical failures have a bit of context. I don’t think many people were exactly hyped for a new Indiana Jones film (I think the good will the franchise had for such a return had faded years after Crystal Skull) and again, would anything have been missed not seeing this film in the cinema? Ford returning to his iconic former roles isn’t exactly uncommon nowadays. Marvel films suffer from overproduction and a lack of quality nowadays too. No reason to pay to see those, especially when the later ones seem to be about lesser known superheroes no one cares about.
Better (and probably more hopeful) indicators for Bond would be The Batman, or perhaps more accurately The Batman Part 2. The first one didn’t break a billion, but considering it’s an explicitly dark, slow moving neo noir take on the character it did exceptionally well, and fans were happy. The hype and advertising around it were solid. I guess we’ll see how Part 2 fares, as it’ll likely come out not too far away from Bond 26. Then you’ve got the new Superman film (not to say Superman’s a character with a consistent cinematic track record, and I’m not sure how many people really care about the character compared to Batman or even Bond, but if that film can get a healthy profit that’ll be a win. I’m not expecting it to break a billion personally, especially based on previous Superman films, but it’d be great if it did).
No doubt streaming’s had an impact on what films people are more likely to go and see theatrically. Older people are less likely to go to the cinema nowadays too (which is natural - many probably wouldn’t have interest in the likes of Marvel, and as most people get older the idea of sitting in a dark room for 2-3 hours with other people gets less appealing). It’s something the big companies/franchises of the film industry are still getting to grips with, and in a particularity bad year for summer releases it’ll be felt. I think Bond has every chance of doing well even in this context though.
Excellent post, @007HallY!
Lesser known actors in something recognisable like Superman can be a positive though. Christopher Reeve was lesser known too. It’s easier to build them up as these characters/have the public accept them in this particular role without worrying about if they’re playing against type etc.
Yeah, but they had Brando, Hackman, etc.
Anyway, being a "good movie" isn't enough these days.
Fair enough, those names could have been a factor. I don’t think name recognition is everything though, especially in something like Superman. We’ll see I suppose.
Success for each film is kinda an individual thing. Like I said, Fury Road wasn’t a massive financial success at all strictly speaking. But it’s because it was a ‘good film’ that it has the reputation it does today. The Batman didn’t need to make a billion as a) it’s the first film of this new era and b) it’s a very particular type of film - a three hour long neo noir - a type that often doesn’t have mass appeal. But certainly the perceived quality of the film benefited it. Lots of films simply aren’t likely to be big moneymakers, and if they enjoy good audience or critical reception (the sort of ‘that film was a lot more fun than I thought it was going to be’ reaction) then it can find its audience and reach its financial potential.
I dunno, I try not to make predictions (where possible), but from my understanding it would depend ultimately on the film/what EoN have put in place (ie. What scale is the film itself, how many locations, have preliminary things been put in place before official pre-production - potential actors, crew etc. how far have they developed the story). In theory you could have an official pre-production at the end of this year and get this film by 2026, but there’s so much we don’t know. Filmmaking at this level isn’t a science.
I suppose what I meant by The Batman Part 2 and Bond 26 being released around the same time is (potentially) within a year apart from each other. But I admit I didn’t word it well and likely broke my own rule about not making predictions haha. And for context that film’s been pushed to late 2026.
But I really don’t know. Could be 2026, could be 2028 for all I know.
Of the box office top 200 films in 2023, I saw 17 of those films, only five of which interested me enough to pay a visit to the cinema. Two of those I should have waited until they streamed.
These are the top ten films of 2023, of which I only saw Oppenheimer.
Barbie.
The Super Mario Brothers
Spiderman.
Guardians of the Galaxy.
Oppenheimer.
The Little Mermaid.
Avatar.
Ant-Man.
John Wick 4.
Sound of Freedom.
Looking at the top ten list and thinking about the audiences for most of these films, I wonder how much those tastes will influence the next Bond.
I suppose it plays into what else I said - namely people beyond that 40+ age bracket don’t always care about a lot of films released nowadays (my ‘they’re not interested in Marvel’ comment). I mean, it makes sense. I suspect at any given time in cinema it’s been the same though, regardless of the quality of said films/the era they’re in. People just lose interest if they think it’s ’not for them’.
If there were one or two big causes, I'm sure film companies would have already taken steps to change their ways.
Perhaps if you tried some indie films/films from up-and-coming directors, who also influence the culture and ultimately Bond, you'd be a little more hopeful about the prospects of cinema?
I can't believe I'm using this example of a film that wasn't in the top ten in its year but ultimately proved influential to blockbuster cinema but...
Memento.
Barbie, Oppenheimer, Guardians, John Wick, Spiderman, Super Mario. John Wick was more my thing to be honest, and I’m a fan of the previous films. I liked Guardians and Spiderman but I don’t tend to keep up with Marvel that much (though I know people who were really excited for these particular films). Oppenheimer was good but not really my thing, and I wasn’t a fan of Barbie.
Super Mario I’m pretty sure I was drunk watching but it was a nice night out. The film didn’t leave much of an impression though. None were my favourite films I saw that year or anything (except John Wick 4) but all had their audiences. I didn’t bother with Avatar as I didn’t enjoy the first one. The others I wasn’t bothered about seeing and simply didn’t have the time/chance.
Nolan! ;)
I don't think EON can discover a new Nolan.
Very true.
The closest they'll get to an issue around this is perhaps someone's Mum or Dad saying at the dinner table 'I thought they killed off Bond in the last one' followed by whoever saying that this will be a new film, and like the new Batman films a new 'universe'. Dependent on the parent/conversation it'll either get drawn out a bit or they'll just shrug and say 'oh' and move on. Apart from that I really don't think that many will care.
Exactly 👍🏻. By the time the new actor is introduced, set pics are leaked, the first trailer and commercials are everywhere, and finally, when the film is released, no one will be thinking about NTTD!
The issue is the gap. They have to win over a new audience.
We saw the media explode when the Sun fabricated their ATJ nonsense. People here wanted to believe it. People on the street thought it happened. Other media published the rubbish (oh yeah, what happened to he’s signing by the end of the week, shot the gun barrel, suits were being measured and contracts of three to four films were being negotiated, 😂!).
I don’t think we have to worry about the appetite of filmgoers.
The issue is getting the right man, telling the right story, and let their marketing team do their job.
Bond is fine.
I couldn't agree more. Bond fever has no cure. It's always present. Also, there are a whole lot of things in a Bond film than any other film, that's why the interest never dies. People want to know the new Bond actor, the new gunbarrel design, the gunbarrel pose, the gunbarrel music, the title song artist, the title song, the composer, the new set of beautiful women... curiosity increases towards the women and villains, because the actors are not the usual faces they know, the new Bond gadget/car, the villain's look, the locales, etc.
I’m with you @SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ … when a Fast and Furious Film is released or a DC film, or a Marvel flick, it’s the same old, same old. Plenty of CG and green screens and loud noises.
A James Bond film offers an exclusive ride with many different elements to enjoy outside of the man himself. There is humour. There’s Q-branch and gadgets. The cars. The in-camera stunt work. The theme song and artist and a rich soundtrack. Costumes and locales and a script that is likely to be far more intelligent than the average popcorn flick.
Bond is fine.
Exactly! =D>